Is Yoga Hinduism?

[QUOTE=Pawel;38611]Hi Kareng,
Thanks for post. I like your direct descriptions. Since you are during your practice you experience so many images, I thought I will use the opportunity to ask you about one thing. Since I read about near death experiences and dependency of imagery on personal background (e.g. person with Jewish background experiencing judgement day) , I started to think how can we distinguish between the content of our imagination and “structures” existing independently. At the moment I have theory that we experience sort of archetypes which take form according to our background/imagination capabilities. So my question is: do you have criteria to separate creations of your imagination from more objective features of your visions? When you wrote about buddha in third eye, do you mean literally that there such a structure or that there is something that we most likely would perceive as little buddha?[/QUOTE]

The trouble with my direct descriptions is that they become lengthy so I apolagise in advance.

At last, someone has responded who knows what I am talking about. Thank you Pawel. Your question is very interesting.

Yes I agree entirely with this part of your post, you wrote…At the moment I have theory that we experience sort of archetypes which take form according to our background. Mine was a suprise as I explained. There is a history inside us that emerges through the third eye I think. By looking past this we go deeper and deeper into our true essence and eventually what Buddhists call enlightenment.

The next question you asked was…So my question is: do you have criteria to separate creations of your imagination from more objective features of your visions?

Can I explain it like this: When I first started, I would see real things like people walking about here and now, nothing to rave about, just people somewhere in this world, places etc and intuitively when you look and think What is this then, the answer comes immediately to you. Its a place in Africa or New Zealand and its someone who is on their way to a bank, say, or people shopping in a street in Canada, so these are the simple surface layers that the ajna chakra can present you with.

I would like to point out that I have nothing in my head when I commence ajna practice, nothing but a focus on a tiny light that grows bigger, this is the eye opening. It is important to think nothing but a singular focus.

Then you asked…When you wrote about buddha in third eye, do you mean literally that there such a structure
Yes most definitely yes!
One day after extreme physical exercise, I went to bed and started the ajna practice and suddenly noted that I was experiencing a different format. I saw red streaks intermingling with blackness. I opened my eyes and thought it must be blood vessels I am seeing, I closed them again and it immediately resumed, red streaks moving and twisting in blackness. I also noted a definite steady pace of movement and stayed with it. It wasn’t jerky, buy just like the steady speed an escalator travels at. I stayed with it relaxed etc. It then slowed and stopped and in the near distance I saw a man, in lotus pose seated. curious, I thought who is he? and with this thought I moved directly to his right side profile, quite close to his face. I began to study his face. Clean shaven, shiny healthy eyebrows, eyes closed, meditative pose, and a very serious kind of facial pose. I then thought how very kind of serious he looked, at this my eye was taken back to a central position involuntarily and he began to levitate at the same time this happened. I watched him levitate then turn with his back to me, traveling to a point central to my sight in the space he was in, he then turned to face me and levitated straight at me, and into my eye.His eyes were open as he did this. At no point was I scared, the significance of this I will get to in a bit. I then came out of the meditatin and to my suprise my third eye was permanently open and he was sat between my eyes, just above them a touch, peering in and out, still in lotus pose but making all the gestures a normal person might do. He was a tiny little very very real man in every sense that real is. I noted he would lean forward looking out and then lean back, he would come out fully if I looked towards the Sun (not directly at the sun but u know close to) He loved the sun and would bathe in its heat and light, so I would do this to please him. He would grow bigger and bigger when my thoughts were nothing but happy…We had a relationship where he would guide me intuitively. I also noticed that people were drawn to me like an incredible magnet, I couldn’t do wrong, I was like a spoilt child getting everything I wanted I could do things like I learnt Moonlight Sonata on the piano in 2 days of trying the piano, I don’t mean magically or anything like that, I had pure focus on whatever I did. a day to work out the notes, play a tape of it again and again to get the timing and a day to play it, on the third day, I played it perfectly. He liked this tune, ha! He stayed with me for about 18 months or so…cant remember just exactly how long but I know he disappeared when I started University. (This was a big mistake on reflection.)

Next …phew…one night I went to bed and for some reason had a sense I wasn’t alone in the room, There was enough light in the room to see nothing was there (street light shining through curtains) I decided to switch the light on, because I felt uneasy. the light was a lamp with a longish flex where the switch was. I leaned forward on my knees shuffling trying to find the dangling switch. I looked to my right because I could see something dash by me. I saw a grotesque being, a skeleton with black mass surrounding its limbs, he was in a position that a crouching diver might take diving into a pool. knees bent legs tightly under him Levitated of course, His hands together like u would in prayer but facing ahead rather than up. He was using this pose to move around me, I began to instinctively dodge him, I was terrified but focussed as well. He had an elongated neck, skeletal through the black mass surrounding him horrid skeletal face and teeth, I kept dodging him, he was aiming for me with his palms as the director? I then began to say the prayer, our father who art in heaven, out loud in a commanding voice, and I watched him slowly fade away with every sentance of it, till he was gone. Why did this happen? because I was unaware I was in a third eye state and had been thinking of sex. This I later read about, many years later, was the cause, but I instinctively knew as well? I had brought through a hungry ghost as the Buddhists call it or the jin in Islam or a demon in Christianity, this was why. I stopped meditating that year and contemplated and came to the conclusion I must conquer sexual thoughts and I did and have. and you must conquer fear when in the third eye state. should it arise. This I hope I have but still might be put to the test on it. ps I dont think the prayer was necessarily the reason I dispersed it however it was instinctive to do it.

Next, I found as time passed that I could very easily be in a third eye state, eg, whilst just sat in living room with tv on or in the bath etc etc so I realised I had to have constant guard on this. You have to keep your awareness levels in check.

All of the above were not imagery, you are fully aware that they are not and you are fully aware of their intension’s, good or bad…these are just two examples.

Next…the imagery part also happens, and this is the part that you use as the measure of your progess, I think.

I was lying on my side on my sofa , very relaxed and tired, and started thinking about flattery received by a man, again, after a night out, I then immediately saw in vivid colour a a woman waving to me, she was in what appeared to be a jungle setting, she was, I thought waving with her left hand. She was young and very beautiful, someone else was there, but I didnt see them, i just knew a she glanced at them to acknowledge them. Her right arm was hidden by a large leaf and as I thought this she stepped to her left and I could then see she wasnt waving but dancing in a truly indian way, head starting moving in that indian way. Thr rest of her body was covered by vegetation growing in front of her. I believe she was naked on reflection but never got her to show this because as I am a woman I wasn’t attracted to her (why wasn’t it a man I wonder?) so I looked at her without lust etc at which point I moved to a scene past her of flying people. One came very low and smiled at me, he was surrounded by light so he looked kind of funny, all his head was white and body with this light with a cuteish face, I saw there were many of them flying above him, right uo into the distance, (no wings)
These are the imagery parts to the ajna, they look real but you know they are not, instinctively, these you can move past, these are part of your layers of history that you can remove by looking past and taking little notice of.
EG At some point you will find yourself in a street where you will meet dead relatives, some you dont know by face but u know by intuition, you should completely ignore them and look past them, again this is imagery. Although I cant make out why a street!!

Look past all imagery, give it little attention dont spend too much time giving it thought.

Be careful if the third eye is open and u are not vigilant you will bring through undesirables into your real world if only for a few minutes!!!

You will be scared when there is a need to be and the opposite when there is no need to be. Th chakra itself gives you intuition. However I have been told that there are tricksters, hopefully I will know this as it happens, I am not sure of this just yet, how I will know etc.

I hope this is of help…it is very very important to be kind, happy compassionate and all the good things in life when practicing ajna. The buddhist very basics are good guide for any faith if they are unsure of the rules. Dont practice it if you cant practice the right speech, right action right this and that etc etc you must be as bright in spirit everyday as you possibly can be when using the ajna chakra.

Kindest Regards Kareng

[QUOTE=kareng;38612]How can you comment because you haven’t gone down this path have you?
[/QUOTE]
Whoa whoa whoa, where is this assumption coming from. I am a former Buddhist and have spent many, many hours in meditation. Over the years on my search for truth, I realized how essential science is as a tool for understanding the universe. Evidence is crucial for understanding truth. Clearly without evidence, all else is just speculation. As a former Buddhist, I dropped my belief in things like enlightenment, chakras, karma and re-birth, as there is simply no evidence, and therefore no reason to believe in such things.

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;38617]Whoa whoa whoa, where is this assumption coming from. I am a former Buddhist and have spent many, many hours in meditation. Over the years on my search for truth, I realized how essential science is as a tool for understanding the universe. Evidence is crucial for understanding truth. Clearly without evidence, all else is just speculation. As a former Buddhist, I dropped my belief in things like enlightenment, chakras, karma and re-birth, as there is simply no evidence, and therefore no reason to believe in such things.[/QUOTE]

My point is that as you didn’t personally have anything happen to you so you dismiss chakras and their powerful use.

Can I ask you this… I assume you have read Buddhist literature at some point and probably know things from the Bible, in these texts, are fantastic accounts of weird stuff, yes?..fanciful maybe?
In Buddhism…armies of Mara attempting to attack a man under a tree on a nice calm sunny day in India, dancing girls who don’t get off the bus but appear in front of Buddha. (attempting humour here) loads of very odd accounts. unbelievable quite frankly, yes?
In the Bible, visions sent by God…Genesis 12, 7…Numbers 24, 4…Job 7, 14…Isiaiah1, 1…Joel 2, 28 The list is long… AND voices heard, as well, AND Visions of the virgin Mary, Lourdes, Joan of Arc.
My question is what do you think they are, these accounts?

[QUOTE=kareng;38619]My point is that as you didn’t personally have anything happen to you so you dismiss chakras and their powerful use.

Can I ask you this… I assume you have read Buddhist literature at some point and probably know things from the Bible, in these texts, are fantastic accounts of weird stuff, yes?..fanciful maybe?
In Buddhism…armies of Mara attempting to attack a man under a tree on a nice calm sunny day in India, dancing girls who don’t get off the bus but appear in front of Buddha. (attempting humour here) loads of very odd accounts. unbelievable quite frankly, yes?
In the Bible, visions sent by God…Genesis 12, 7…Numbers 24, 4…Job 7, 14…Isiaiah1, 1…Joel 2, 28 The list is long… AND voices heard, as well, AND Visions of the virgin Mary, Lourdes, Joan of Arc.
My question is what do you think they are, these accounts?[/QUOTE]

That’s a very simple question to answer. These accounts are fictional. Why would I take anything that is written in the bible, for example, literally? If you open up the bible and start reading Genesis, the first story is about the creation of our universe. A couple of things that may strike you when you read Genesis is that a) the creation story itself, is FULL of contradictions, and b) the details for the creation of the universe according to Genesis, is completely, scientifically inaccurate. So clearly, not only do I not have any reason to take what it says in the bible literally before reading it, I also have reasons NOT to believe what it says once I start reading it. I have no logical reason to take the book literally in the first place, AND I have positive reasons NOT to take the book literally. That’s a pretty strong case against the integrity of a book.

Hi Kareng,

Thank you very much for fascinating descriptions and advices ? I appreciate your time. They are not too long ? I can read much longer if they relate to real experiences.

From what you wrote I understood that your criterion is intuition and that you were just aware that some of the things you saw were not imagery. Could you please write bit more about this intuition? Was it just ?knowing? or there was something specific about it?

Personally I?m bit suspicious about intuition. I had experiences in my life when my intuition was expressing rather my emotions and desires to be in contact with supernatural rather than providing with some solid interpretation of experiences. So I?m looking for some sort of techniques allowing to distinguish between different states of awareness. Like for example between dream and waking state (my favorite is reading a text ? in dream its always something different each time you read). Like little set of tricks you can perform that will tell you what kind of state you are in at the moment and what you see.

Interesting that this little Buddha disappeared when you went to university. Did you figured out why? Was it because of stress?

Pawel

I took this off the web The third eye radiates a deep blue which in the developed personality borders on violet. It functions as the central point where different flows of Prana meet and are distributed. (Sushunma branches through it, and the Ida and Pingala go right through it after they branch off to the nostrils.) The chakra has control over seeing, not only in the physical sense but in the mystical sense of seeing into the higher planes; intuitive seeing, clairvoyance and the other paranormal forms of knowing. And when active, the seat of Divine Intelligence. The Ajna center controls all higher mental activities. This includes intuitive thought, rational thought and memory. Intuitive thought includes all forms of paranormal activity.

This sums it up thinK

My intuition is only reliable when in the third eye state, and, when my third eye is permanantly open it is functioning perfectly and continuously. When I am not in the third eye state, it is still there but not as perfect. I sort of question whether it is right or not, like anyone else does.

I dont really take note of dreams, I find them illogical, but this is only an opinion that could be wrong…maybe they are important because I know some people have had dreams that came true? that met relatives that warned them of something etc. The ajna chakra a definate state that produces all of the above (off web) it is not dream like, its something certain because you are normally in control of it, you have aimed to open it usually…but as I said before it can also occur when you are deeply relaxed and not vigilant.however, its results are unmistakable.

the question you asked…Interesting that this little Buddha disappeared when you went to university. Did you figured out why? Was it because of stress?
Probably and a number of other factorslike filling my head with unnecessary info.

My personality before univ could have been described as happy, happy ,a happy airhead …not academic, no interest in anything but having fun no interest in details, facts, politics, religion, money, no arguing about anything, a distinct dislike of violence, and when someone was in the wrong I always quietly found the answer as to why they were upset or out of order which led to instant forgiveness. I was physically highly active, here there and everywhere, you couldn’t pin me down for long…in those days I was a singer in bands. Fun Fun Fun. Everyday I woke up quite literally, smiling, I remember that the prospect of the day was exciting even though technically nothing was exciting about it…this was my nature I then got serious, Univ, desire to achieve, Money, irritations and stress etc… BIG BIG BIG BIG MISTAKE. I can understand fully why there is a need to become a monk or a nun when going down the spiritual experience route!!!
I intend to take this route eventually. Buddhist Monk.

Kind Regards Kareng

When I was analysing the Buddha seated, I had a thought that he must be a relative on my dads side…I was quickly corrected with the thought no, he isn’t! this was a kind of involuntary thought…thats the difference, one that is enough for you not to question it further

Can you tell me about the judgement day experience…describe what led to it etc, I would love to know…

Th reason I have expressed my personality is to give an idea of the right mind to cultivate possibly. In the context of the inner Guru and what he likes. This isnt to say im right but just that it was something I noted. I remember reading that Jesus was said to appear as a child in the company of the disciples etc…I don’t think it means he transformed magically into a child but that he behaved like one?

Kareng

Yogiadam I do get your point, I don’t believe everything can be discounted, I was specifically pointing out the references to visions…visions belong to the third eye. I have known people who start reading Buddhist text and cant get their heads round the weird stuff…the weird stuff is third eye and once you separate and point out the third eye stuff from the rest of the bodies of text, it makes it easier for westerners to understand.
Ok.,…another question…
What do you think of remote viewing? Remote viewers were used by the American military to check on the health and location of prisoners in Iraq and are still used today.I could go on about the other countries that use it etc. Going underground can often be the only way to confuse a remote viewer but even that isn’t full proof…these things are taken seriously by serious people,

Psychic mediums are used by police when they cannot solve crimes. Do you think it is just a few that can do this or, as is the case I believe, achievable by anyone wishing to learn?

Kind Regards Kareng

As you can see from this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_viewing#Scientific_studies_and_claims
I have no reason to take remote viewing as a plausible concept. The US army does not use remote viewing for anything. I have heard of isolated cases where police forces have used psychic mediums on a few cases, and every time, the authorities involved report that the psychic mediums got in the way, and slowed down the cases. If you have anymore questions about what I believe… first just quickly ask yourself… what does science have to say about this? Do we have hard evidence for his? Can I learn about this subject in a science class at university? Is this belief supported be evidence, logic, and reason or is it based more on my emotions and wishful thinking? Asking these questions first, may help to understand what I except as fact or fiction.

I greatly beg to differ I am speaking from personal experience and as for sticky wickypedia,
its just another example of cover ups of the truth yogiadam
In the wrong hands it is dangerous!!!

Yeah, wikipedia is not really a good place to look up for genuine things. Academic posts there are moderated for the interest of the predominant ideologies, that are not transcended. We, here, must transcend what needs to be transcended for the sake of our spiritual paths.

Hi Kareng,

Thanks for answers.

I didn’t have this “judgement day experience”. I’m of Christian (Catholic) background. I mentioned judgement day because I watched a video on that on youtube recently (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0Ns3D6Tpfs) and it was one of the most interesting near death descriptions. This man provided some information about his background and you could see links between his life/beliefs and things he experienced. It wasn’t just simple dependency that you see Jesus/God/Light/etc. on content your beliefs. It was a long, complex story that was formed and experienced in response to his near death state. When I listen to it I thought: “Wow, this is complex! How can I be sure what I really see in this state?”. And what is interesting, among people reporting their experiences, no one was questioning the reality of what they saw. So you understand that from this perspective I’m bit suspicious about just “knowing” as validation of your perception.

About your university time: look at it from positive side. If you wouldn’t change you probably wouldn’t be able to really understand people around you later on in life (with their problems, stresses, pains). Such fun-happiness is just one side of our nature. There is also sadness, depression, anxiety and these are also part of us. And if we are really compassionate we should embrace our “sad” parts as well. Then we become fully human, with days of laughter and days of sadness. So maybe this university time was part of your development?

[QUOTE=kareng;38661]I greatly beg to differ I am speaking from personal experience and as for sticky wickypedia,
its just another example of cover ups of the truth yogiadam
In the wrong hands it is dangerous!!![/QUOTE]

Scientific evidence beats circumstantial opinion. You only think it’s dangerous cause you think science is a conspiracy theory out to get you.

pawel I realise now,I misunderstood…I have thought the same as you regarding univ, Its just that walking with the inner guru in open Ajna state was a remarkable experience, one that you woudnt want to part with. It may have nothing to do with Univ, I cant be sure of course. But, If you look at the right ‘mind’ conditions that are expressed throughout Buddhist text, there is a simplicity that is echoed…so I analysed my personality, mind set, whilst with the inner Guru active and it was, in short, a happy airhead.
15 years after the event, I read a book on C’han meditation bt Charles Luk, in this book a master says…all students should seek out the innner gur, he is located in the red heart and sits waiting for you to wake him at which point he enters your forehead…he then comments that to keep him there is difficult and that 3 specific things must be maintained…1. No eating Meat…2. No telling lies…3. No sex Well the last one 3. is why I have spent years mastering this, which I can say confidently I have now. But also the right mind has to be maintained and in the west, this is difficult… I am looking forward eventually to seeking him out purposefully this time (last time it was by accident)
I am assuming the red heart is the central point of focus in the centre of the light one sees…the format being red streaks intermingling with black is the indication you have it right. I wont do this until all circumstances are correct, this will be when I become a monk and devote myself entirely to this end.

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;38706]Scientific evidence beats circumstantial opinion. You only think it’s dangerous cause you think science is a conspiracy theory out to get you.[/QUOTE]

Scientific evidence beats my circumstantial evidence is what you should have put because mine is my evidence.

So does it beat my evidence, no of course it doesn’t. Does it beat the thousands of Buddhist/Hindus that know what I am talking about, no it doesn’t
Does it beat the us military involvement in Remote viewing, no it doesnt, (This is an absolute fact despite what you say)
Could it be that that Science cannot measure it…yes…after all they have only recently worked out the big bang theory, and, regarding String theory which is currently being researched with Stephen Hawking, they currently are stating that there are 9 other dimensions that are using our gravity, its still in theory conditions but hey…Hindus and Buddhists have known this for centuries, all theses Scientists are doing is finding proof that already exists for those actively entering these dimensions, regularly.

Regarding dangerous:

  1. To see where someone is located is potentially worrying depending on what your doing it for
  2. To hear what is being said, in real time, the same as above
  3. To know what someone is thinking, the same as above
    There are my reasons why the majority must be kept in the dark, why it must be a point of say, ridicule. and of course because Science has not developed enough to be able to provide the proof, if it wanted to. And they probably will keep it under hats for the reasons 1 to 3 when they do.

[QUOTE=kareng;38711]Scientific evidence beats my circumstantial evidence is what you should have put because mine is my evidence.

So does it beat my evidence, no of course it doesn’t. Does it beat the thousands of Buddhist/Hindus that know what I am talking about, no it doesn’t
Does it beat the us military involvement in Remote viewing, no it doesnt, (This is an absolute fact despite what you say)
Could it be that that Science cannot measure it…yes…after all they have only recently worked out the big bang theory, and, regarding String theory which is currently being researched with Stephen Hawking, they currently are stating that there are 9 other dimensions that are using our gravity, its still in theory conditions but hey…Hindus and Buddhists have known this for centuries, all theses Scientists are doing is finding proof that already exists for those actively entering these dimensions, regularly.

Regarding dangerous:

  1. To see where someone is located is potentially worrying depending on what your doing it for
  2. To hear what is being said, in real time, the same as above
  3. To know what someone is thinking, the same as above
    There are my reasons why the majority must be kept in the dark, why it must be a point of say, ridicule. and of course because Science has not developed enough to be able to provide the proof, if it wanted to. And they probably will keep it under hats for the reasons 1 to 3 when they do.[/QUOTE]

OK well your entitled to your opinion.

Yogiadam…this is a new person I see…I think I am missing the old one…do you have a hangover…I am feeling bad now I have it seems lost a sparring scientist, or at least for now.

My kindest regards to you yogiadam

@Kareng

Are you saying you miss the YogiAdam who was wasted? Not appropriate if so.

Lotusgirl I am cross at what you have just put!!! It seems you are kind of looking for a row where there isnt one. Yogiadam was feeling bad about being wasted…have you not done your research on the posts? He has posted this for all to see!!! I didnt want him to feel bad about it and it was my attempt to relieve his embarrassment by making light of it. He appeared to be on a low and had lost his zest, he, I think knows what I mean…and, just before I read your post I have written what might be my last post to him as he is wantng to leave!!! Despite the fact he slipped up a couple of times, he still put forward good points even tho intoxicated!! I am not suggesting at all what you have stated…I like him in any ‘state’ to relieve his embarrassment to keep him with us…to show him on my part I didn’t really mind…to show him I will miss him.

You have upset me lotusgirl

As a practicing Buddhist for 40 years the last thing I would do is deliberately upset Yogiadam or anyone…