You made an accusation that you pulled out of your arse. Nothing more than that. That’s why you make excuses and fail to provide any evidence.
I would never make such an unfair and unsubstantiated accusation against your religion. No fair-minded person would attack another religion like you did.
We have told you the verses.
In this thread?
What verses?
[quote=Surya Deva;45105]Namaste core,
Thank you for your compliments. I am humbled :)[/quote]You are most welcome Surya. That is very kind of you to say that.And likewise I am humbled before you.lol- Seriouslyt
Aurobindo was onto something when he talked about the next stage of human evolution that is coming. Let us hope it is sooner rather than later.
I hope so too.Aurobindu talked about the expansion of individual consciousness as also that of the collective like the two being inter-dependent and related.So people can evolve in isolation but both projects are in linkage.
Of course nobody has to wait for humanity to evolve or wait for the coming of a great soul, they can themselves speed up their evolution by using the divine science of Yoga and become that great soul that the world is waiting for.
IIt’s just a matter of doing it but i feel an ashram would be the place for me right now to develop as fully as I can in a conducive envrironmen Indeed it is here & now and nowhere else.I feel i know what’s required of me now or certainly more than I did when i first started yoga sadhana 5 yrs ago…
It is true that each and everyone of us are gods in the making. We simply need to realise this fact and start to work towards realising this. If you can retire into an ashram then do it now. You will develop there much more than you will develop anywhere else in the world. If you have commitments, then fulfill those commitments quickly, in order to make way for your spiritual journey
So very true Surya.We are all potential GODS in the making if only we all woke up, I’m talking about myself here, and realised it.I have sensed that all along.It is nice to hear it re-capitulated though-the truth if you like
.Your advice is supremely helpful.And i will be giving serious consideration and will be putting plans afoot to retire to an ashram as soon as i can to do the work that is required.I feel intense sadhana would be more conducive in a spiritual ennvironment.I do plan to do that as soon as I can so will probably make enquiries and do research into this project,this spiritual journey etc.
Your advice is greatly appreciated.I have actually been mulling it over for a few months now and have at least one place in mind but i need to get serious and retreat to an ashram like you say for more serious sadhana.
You will develop there muchmore than you will devlop anywhere else in the world.
Yes,that is just what i need to hear.You always have the most sage advice here and the wisest and most well meaningful of advice here.
I honestly don’t like messing around.Life is just too short for that.
THANKYOU:D
Just the words i needed to hear spoken by a true sage…lol.
There is one place in mind in Europe easy to get to too but i might just head to India, the Motherland who knows?. But i need to get seriouslike you say and will be doing that as soon as I cani.e heading into retreat mode. i feel a could accomplish more and i know what to do and believe i know what is required of me.Life is just too short for messing around to put it bluntly. Sustained sadhana…
So very true Surya.We are all potential GODS in the making if only we all woke up, I’m talking about myself here, and realised it.
What do you mean by being a god?
To reach one’s maximum potential in terms of mind,body,heart & soul.By that ,developing one self to a level on an extra-ordinary level that is desiigned to speed up one’s own and everyone else’s evolution.It is to expand one’s level of Consciousness to an extra-ordinary level.To be a God is to be a master of one’s own Universe.It is on just one level liberation from the bondage of human suffering but that is perhaps more of a side-effet if you like.You see into the true nature of reality and are able to penetrate it with all it’s apparent mysteries… But it is also knowing that there is a creative & expansive principle within our own human consciousness and by knowing how to tap into ,i.e through the science of yoga ( &/or tantra to put it more correctly-the totality of yoga) we can harness these forces that allow us to see into our own true nature, our own real self.It is everybody’s birthright to know their true self and reaching their maximum potential is something that can be done if we put in the effort and get serious. You connect with the ultimate divine reality and the only way to do that seriously , to find God is to finid it within yourself.Scripture is all very good as is ritual or even religion .But you need to recognise your true self or real nature.
Most people live lives of mediocrity i think when they don’t necessarily have to,let’s be honest here,that don’t maximise their full potential. I think this science is probably the most powerul means i know of to raise consciousness systematically ,realise that the true self behind the mirrrors.It is one’s own self,consciousness which is is at the centre of the Universe. There is no use looking for external Gods because they are at best illusions that keep us in the relative dream-state.It is like waking up from a dream or to get awakened or en-lightened.To realise God properly is therfore in tht sense to be a God.It is to realise that you are the creative Master of your own Universe, i.e there is only one. You should find this out through intense sustained sadhana i think.
You see that the world is actually full of Light rather than perhaps patches of darkness in places at least which it is for a great many people.Most people live lives that are barely conscious. I am one of them. I know there is much much more.But i know i can do something about that.I know there is a science that can bring us ALL out of the darkness and into the Light because the Light is good believe me.Alot of folk are scared of the Light, some perhaps even can’t stand it, but they should’nt be.There is nothing to fear. It is our birthright,our innate potential.It is part of our own evolution and that of human evolution on the grand scale.I have heard the word involution used;i think th suggesstion here is it is is’nt necessarily linear.We can all take quantum leaps if we choose to do so, act now , are inclined etc. It is nothing fanciful ;it is in fact reality behind the relative veils of illusion.
We are like little children Thomas at least right now…We think we need some external authority to guide us,sometimes we do and will benefit greatly by their guidance but at some point we can make that leap of faith and realise the inevitaiblity of it, i.e becoming a God ourselves. It is within our capablities and our destiny in some sense as long as we continue nudging by choosing acting maybe in leaps and bounds or strides in that very direction…
So when you reach this ultimate state, you are still you, is that right? You are not THE one and only all-might and all-powerful God, but a “god” with a small “g.” Is that correct?
You are still who you are and I am still who I am, and if we both reached this state and then died, we would be able to communicate with each other, and even discuss this conversation?
[quote=thomas;45206]So when you reach this ultimate state, you are still you, is that right? You are not THE one and only all-might and all-powerful God, but a “god” with a small “g.” Is that correct?
You are still who you are and I am still who I am, and if we both reached this state and then died, we would be able to communicate with each other, and even discuss this conversation?[/quote]
You are more YOU than you realise.You can re-discoveer what or who you really are… you true real self. It’s everyone’s brithright to do that and we all entitled.It is likely that deep down we have just forgotten it- like an amnesiac of a spiritual sort if you like.Spiritual amnesia you could say.
The thing with the modern world full of stresses and worries and suffering is that optimal conditions for this collective evolution are not always apparent or in place.Hence why you may get a few souls, without being fanciful about it, that have realised their true God-nature by taking some expedient steps to realise it.
Maybe i should’nt mince my words. Buut i think the concept of this external abstraction of God is likely just a mirage. My own hunch is that we, all of us are at the centre of everything.I am here. You are welll wherever you are.
You are still veery ordinary. I have heard someone say that you are extra-ordinary. Meaning you are more ordinary than everyone else.
Could we both still communicate after death after realising our true God natures?.Well i think that is a metphysical question but I don’t see why not.We’re a micro-cosm of the macro-cosm.As in we are(all) related, everything in the Unverses is related from rocks or super-novas to people…I think the hindus call it Atman or soul- our true knowing self.Everything else is just a reflection. Is soul or ataman the witness behind the play of consciousness? Well technically i’m not too sure about that. But perhaps someone like Surya or anyone eslse might be able to try and shed some light on that particular enquiry.
If you believe the Universe,i.e the totality of things let’s just say( as one medieval philosophy lecturer i recall when i was a student expressing it as such)for came from God or was somehow conceived out of let’s call this thing God.Well everything will return to God. God plays dice after all because he gave us free-will right? Now maybe we can exlplain this free-will and apprently orderly Universe dilemma by the fact that ,hey maybe we are the Gods rolling the dice, co-creators & destroyers.Everythiing is connected and deeply inter-related,interwoven more than we can even comprehend and imagine. And i believe the sum totaltiy of the Universe the known and the unknown, i.e reality what reality really is is a LOT stranger than we give it credit for.
I’m not saying by embracing religion let’s just say like you & Surya(though he might say he’s an athiest or whatever he might say) have done that somehow reality then loses it’s mystery and beauty but you want to keep an open mind. That reality even if you believe in this benevloent God-fgure that is caring and omniscient but ultimately external to your own Consciousness tehn you might be wwrriting off your won ability to play in it’s co-creation. However i would say you ultimately have the hands in the creation of your own reality and it is Consciousness ultimately (or ultimate divine reality, which you can realise or are given insight into through yogic sadhana or grace) which is at it’s centre.Though i’m sure it’s likely alot stranger than that merely a simple mind-body philosophical formulation.You don’t need to smoke dope to appreciate this. But yes reality is stranger than we give it credit for.
This is where I get confused, core, is that sometimes it seems Hinduism is saying that we retain our individuality, and sometimes it seems to be saying that we are God, the one god, and just don’t realize it, and that whatever concept we have of a self is an illusion.
And how come you got rid of that cool avatar you had?
Thomas, the best way to look at it for you, and in fact I use this example myself is the trinity concept of father, son and holy spirit. They are not three separate entities, but one entity, and yet one aspect(the son) can manifest and incarnate on Earth and commune with the other aspect the father and live in the holy spirit. Hence Jesus says, “I and and my father are one” Similarly, Hinduism says we are god, soul and spirit at the same time. One aspect(soul) can manifest and incarnate on earth and commune with the other aspect god and live in spirit.
We Hindus are not arrogant that we proclaim,“I am god, it is only me, and there is no other god other than me” Rather we proclaim oneness with god. We are saying pretty much what Jesus is saying, “I and my father are one” However, what you need to realise that Jesus is not the only son, we are all the sons of god. Jesus is a soul, just like you and I are souls. But Jesus is a much more evolved soul.
Jesus never claimed he was the only son of god. In fact, he did suggest when he quoted “Ye are all gods” that we are all gods. He did suggest to his disciples that the glory that he has, his disciples can as well. This is exactly what Hinduism teaches, that we are all gods and all highly evolved spiritual beings that have incarnated here such as Krishna, Buddha, Mahavira have all said that the glory they have, we too can have.
You must realise that you too are a god and start your sadhana(Yoga practice - yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratyhara, dharana, dhyana) to actualise this. Then you too will have glory that Jesus, Buddha and Mahavira etc had. You too will proclaim like they did “I and my father are one”, “I am that I am”
You must respect the fact that the divine teachings were given all over the world, and not just in Jerusalem and by Jesus. The teachings that Jesus gave, were given many times to the Hindus through the ages. We have records of thousands of masters going back 10,000 years. Abandon this arrogance that Jesus is the only one and Jerusalem the only place in the world that god revealed the divine teachings to.
Thomas we are god but we are not.Sometime we will be God .Look it is written with capital G.I dont see the problem.I see .You just want to confuse or been confuse ? no thomas we cant be God and be god at the same time we are just fractions .do you get it now? well if Im God I will come back to you and attach you to some string and move you around like a plane(puppet).lol Thats why Im god and not God.do you get it now?
God does not have a white beard.only in my little brothers imagination.
Teitan
[quote=thomas;45209]This is where I get confused, core, is that sometimes it seems Hinduism is saying that we retain our individuality, and sometimes it seems to be saying that we are God, the one god, and just don’t realize it, and that whatever concept we have of a self is an illusion.
And how come you got rid of that cool avatar you had?[/quote]
I’m obviously not the best placed to answer these question but i can give you insights and understanding i’ve gleamed through outer & inner (experience-based or sadhana-inspired) scripture.
When we work on our sense of indiividuality, the construct that is the “I” we are supposedly to see it as an illusion, a dream state and not just relativistically-speaking. Instead of separation or fragmentation , the self and the world etc we see unity and connectednes.Love of God is love of our self.
What this possibly could boils down to is maybe one’s definiton of God.There are likely say more than one that are mirrored in the different world religiions out there.
What do we mean by God.A particular particle or absolute creative force or power or principle or whatever? If it connects with your heart you are likely right on track. That is the good thing about Christianity is it is the religion of love; love is the central teaching.I won’t necessarily buy some of their stuff but the importance they attach to it is great and it appears accessible on some level.BTW yoga i believe should only serve to strengthen your faith Thomas,foster it and nurture it.Make it strong!
I am glad you liked my avatar, Thomas.I am trying my best to be humble for a change before God almighty…lol.The avatar’'s do brighten up and add colour the forum.I need to learn many things such as humility and being nice to people for a start - i need to work on that particular one alot(hides his head in shame!) etc . I don’t like to come across as show-casing myself(read ego) too much. I could always put up another one up i guess.I like the Indian cultural and/or yogic thing going on i guess.It looked like a wooden relief of some Temple Goddess.Very pretty,yes!
You know what I quite like the NT. I read it sometimes myself and I get inspired by it. I think Jesus is a beautiful person, and although I sometimes do not agree with his expression(as recorded in the gospels) it is clear there is nothing but pure love, divinity within him. I easily accepted him as a much more developed soul than I am and more developed than even many masters. I am not sure if he was at the level of an avatar like Krishna was, but he was definitely a divine being, who I would bow before.
What I do not like is the religion Christianity which is not based on the NT only, but also on the OT. But Jesus actually opposed the OT. Yes he said “I have come to fulfill scripture” but notice throughout the NT Jesus opposes much written in the OT. It is easy for a rational person to see how savage and barbaric the OT is. It is full of stories of god killing people left, right and centre, including men, women and children. It is full of injunctions to kill people for breaking rules. Here are some of those rules that the OT ordains death for:
The Bible prescribes the death penalty for the following activities, among others:
Murder
Adultery
Bestiality[13]
Rape [14]
Homosexual sex[15]
A betrothed woman who does not cry out while being raped[16]
A woman who is found not to have been a virgin on the night of her wedding[17]
Worshiping other gods[18][19]
Witchcraft (Exodus 22:1
Taking God’s name in vain or cursing God’s name[20]
Cursing a parent[21][22][23]
Kidnapping[24]
The people of Midian together with Moab began to interact with the people of Israel. The Israelites were staying in Shittim when the Moabite girls invited the people to their religious sacrifices. The people ate, and worshiped the Moabite gods[4].
For these transgressions, the Midianites were attacked by Moses and his followers[5]. When Moses learned that some Midianites had been spared[6], he ordered all males and non-virgin females killed, and all the virgin females to be taken captive[7]. The virgins were divided among the priests and the people[8]. For their hesitation in killing the children, God punished the Israelites with a plague[9].
I’m no OT expert by any means, and some things seem troubling, and I would like to take a good course in it some time, but none of those things are we admonished to do now.
Surya you forgot one in Eclesiastes from the Bible.Not to copy and paste from other books and websites .Thats a capital one .lol
Yes, I understand none of this goes on in contemporary Christianity. However, you do need to realise that in older Christianity this did go on. Much of the violence and bloody history that Christianity has was justified using the OT.
If I just take the NT ONLY there is no way that any of that can be be used justify violence, death and destruction. On the contrary it promotes a message of peace, tolerance, love.
However, later on the original Christianity was usurped by the Roman empire. They tagged alongside it the OT in order to justify their henious crime in ethnically cleansing pagans. They set up clergies where men were arbitarily given positions of being people of god - and spokespeople of god. These men could order whatever they wanted and then claim it was god’s will. They could interpret the gospels as they wanted and then claim it was the real message. This is how the Roman empire used the religion of Christianity to justify the death and destruction and oppression of the masses. Anybody that challenged the religion of Roman catholicism, even Christian traditions who did not agree with their interpretation of Christianity, was put to death, arrested or penalized.
Later on, the same tactics were used by the Church to slaughter and convert Africans, Native Americans, Australian Aborgines, Indians.
In contemporary times these kind of genocides no longer go on, because the Church would never get away with it. However, the Church does sponsor subversive activity in third world countries in order to make them hate their indigenious religions and cultures. Activities like targetting vulerlable tribal and lower castes in India for mass conversions and telling them to hate Hindu culture and not associate with Hindus is a common practice by the Church in India. It is sponsored by powerful Church organizations internationally such as the Southern Baptist Church.
You need to separate the Church from Jesus Christ. There is Jesus whose teachings and stories are recorded in the OT. And then there are men who have appointed themselves as the arbiters of your religion, who do horrible things in the name of your Jesus.
You do not need a Church to practice what Jesus taught. Jesus taught you to live in a way of love, peace, tolerance and to imbibe within yourself the divine qualities. To live for god and live for him. You can do that in your own private space. You do not need the Church to do that.
Reject the religion of Christianity that has been created by men. Embrace Jesus and his teachings in the NT.
I am glad you liked my avatar, Thomas.I am trying my best to be humble for a change before God almighty…lol.The avatar’'s do brighten up and add colour the forum.I need to learn many things such as humility and being nice to people for a start - i need to work on that particular one alot(hides his head in shame!) etc . I don’t like to come across as show-casing myself(read ego) too much. I could always put up another one up i guess.I like the Indian cultural and/or yogic thing going on i guess.It looked like a wooden relief of some Temple Goddess.Very pretty,yes!
It’s good you’re working on making improvements. It shows humility that you can admit it. That’s something you can be proud of! (oops…)
But the avatar was so cool. That didn’t seem to be an ego thing, but if for you it was, then maybe you have to do what you have to do. I don’t think I’m the Pope because I use my pope/emperor avatar, though I do wish I could shoot lightning out of my fingertips. But who knows–maybe I really can, but don’t realize it.
thanks God you cant shoot lightning .It could be the inquisition again and we dont need that.lol
[quote=thomas;45226]It’s good you’re working on making improvements. It shows humility that you can admit it. That’s something you can be proud of! (oops…)
But the avatar was so cool. That didn’t seem to be an ego thing, but if for you it was, then maybe you have to do what you have to do. I don’t think I’m the Pope because I use my pope/emperor avatar, though I do wish I could shoot lightning out of my fingertips. But who knows–maybe I really can, but don’t realize it.[/quote]
I have a lot of work to do Thomas.(I am glad you can see that) I just don’t realise it at times.I live in a kind of bubble alot of the time…lol… where i don’t think of other people… But i am trying to make amends for that.I am not considerate. And humble myself before God almighty…lol
That’s why iam try to do spiritual practice to feed the ego.The ego will still be there just it will get transformed into something positive hopefully.I’ve led a fairly perhaps unorthodox life you might say.I’m not really a rebel but i am deluded . I just don’t like to admit it.
Hey Thomas i think you could make a good pope. Now shooting lighting out your fingertips might just be possible if you continue the way you’re going.Just promise this- that you will not join the dark side, no matter what. The dark side can get fond of people like you.They see the force is strong in this one and they go right after you.Be on the side of goodnes and light. Good to see your sense of humour.You are a Man of God.
I try my best to treat each day as it comes.not expect or hope for any sudden tranformation. I am glad you can see me for what i am.I am trying to learn from mistakes and make amends,lessons learned that kind of thing what does this say about me and so forth? but i do find it difficult at times.
I’m really a little lost child that has’nt really grown up properly.
I do try to be a better person but i think i get or can get easily very confused sometimes.I’m not sure if it’s trusting people or a bit of emotional retardation or a bit of both or whatever else is or may be going on.I do find the meditation helps to still my mind and get rid of some of the noise or the interference, the unhealthy fluctuations so to speak. But there sometimes still remains layers within the psyche that are as yet unplummellled or unplumbed or as yet unpurified if you like.It’s diving down there that can bring emotions to the surface of in adequacy and shame and it happens when i’m feeling vulnerable and/or weak… I like to think of myself as a good person but then i think when i’ve been bad that i have actually got rather confused emotionally-speaking. I’ve mixed things up. I’ve interepted something as an act of Loving when it has not been so. This is why i talk about confusion. I misatke black for white.That is to say i don’t do it deliberately with intention but i mistake the desert for an oasis and then act on it as if it is, if that makes any sense. The heart and the Mind is both confused.What you thought at the time was an act of love is actually not so…
Core,
There is something I must tell you.
I am your father.
Come, join me. As father and son we will rule the universe.
(Or at least we could take over this board).
Cont’d\
.So the line gets fudged and amount of good ends up out-colouring the bad.It’s like that talk about the kleshas , the colouring of percetions so that the moral compass you have stops making an accurate reading any more if only for that period and it’s usually a time of distress, depression of the arousing of as yet unresolved emotions(like longer term).I do think we hold armour in us emotionally and it can come out and express itself in un wholesome ways.And then we try to deceive ourselves that it never happened as we remember it. The kleshas might be pertinent here.The colouring of perceptions and how that might influence moral action.