Is Yoga Hinduism?

[quote=thomas;45230]Core,

There is something I must tell you.

I am your father.

Come, join me. As father and son we will rule the universe.

(Or at least we could take over this board).[/quote]

Another father just like you would be really nice, Thomas.

That is not such a bad idea you have put foward. Thanks for being my father.I’ll try and make you proud and be a good son.I know you’d be a good father.Does’nt sound like such a bad idea.I know i trust you.

Surrogate parent, step-father.Thanks for looking after me Thomas.You keep me safe.I could do with a father like you.

I know you’re one of the good ones Thomas.You are a Man of God after all.

Do you do your asanas btw and how often i’m curiious like at home etc or church ?

[QUOTE=thomas;45175]No, Catholics do not worship statues or images. I once believed that myself, though, in my pre-Catholic days.[/QUOTE]

Then please explain to me what the reformation iconoclasm was about. As far as I understood, this was mostly because of the fact that the catholics were worshipping saints by the aid of statues and images instead of the One and sole God.

The Reformation started as a reaction to some real abuses, but then went too far, and Luther did much damage with his hissy fit, and he corrupted the doctrine.

I don’t know if the Reformation addressed icons, statues, and the like. I’ve never heard of that.

At any rate, an image is simply an aid to worship God. Nothing more than that. Just like a picture reminds you of a loved one. Some people even will kiss a picture, and I think they realize they are not really kissing the person.

It is abundantly clear in Catholic doctrine that the only one worthy of worship is God. The saints are “venerated” and given a special place of honor, but only because of their devotion to God.

[QUOTE=thomas;45249]
I don’t know if the Reformation addressed icons, statues, and the like. I’ve never heard of that.[/QUOTE]
Well, you know I am Dutch, and in Holland the iconoclasm, the destruction of statues in churches by the protestants was quite violent and addressed exactly this issue. That said, I couldn’t care less. I do not form part of either religion. It have just been taught these things at school, but also by protestants, so if it isn’t true all the better for you (because praying to second hand gods in the form of Saints and Images is really a waste of time).

[QUOTE=Awwware;45250]Well, you know I am Dutch, and in Holland the iconoclasm, the destruction of statues in churches by the protestants was quite violent and addressed exactly this issue. That said, I couldn’t care less. I do not form part of either religion. It have just been taught these things at school, but also by protestants, so if it isn’t true all the better for you (because praying to second hand gods in the form of Saints and Images is really a waste of time).[/QUOTE]

We don’t pray to images, of course.

But prayer to saints is a different thing. We believe in the “communion of saints” and that we are all one body, including those on earth and those who have died, so a prayer to a saint is something some Catholics do, though it is not the same as praying to God or worshiping God, but asking for the sait to intercede and pray on our behalf.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;45217]You know what I quite like the NT. I read it sometimes myself and I get inspired by it. I think Jesus is a beautiful person, and although I sometimes do not agree with his expression(as recorded in the gospels) it is clear there is nothing but pure love, divinity within him. I easily accepted him as a much more developed soul than I am and more developed than even many masters. I am not sure if he was at the level of an avatar like Krishna was, but he was definitely a divine being, who I would bow before.

What I do not like is the religion Christianity which is not based on the NT only, but also on the OT. But Jesus actually opposed the OT. Yes he said “I have come to fulfill scripture” but notice throughout the NT Jesus opposes much written in the OT. It is easy for a rational person to see how savage and barbaric the OT is. It is full of stories of god killing people left, right and centre, including men, women and children. It is full of injunctions to kill people for breaking rules. Here are some of those rules that the OT ordains death for:

The Bible prescribes the death penalty for the following activities, among others:

Murder
Adultery
Bestiality[13]
Rape [14]
Homosexual sex[15]
A betrothed woman who does not cry out while being raped[16]
A woman who is found not to have been a virgin on the night of her wedding[17]
Worshiping other gods[18][19]
Witchcraft (Exodus 22:1
Taking God’s name in vain or cursing God’s name[20]
Cursing a parent[21][22][23]
Kidnapping[24]

The people of Midian together with Moab began to interact with the people of Israel. The Israelites were staying in Shittim when the Moabite girls invited the people to their religious sacrifices. The people ate, and worshiped the Moabite gods[4].

For these transgressions, the Midianites were attacked by Moses and his followers[5]. When Moses learned that some Midianites had been spared[6], he ordered all males and non-virgin females killed, and all the virgin females to be taken captive[7]. The virgins were divided among the priests and the people[8]. For their hesitation in killing the children, God punished the Israelites with a plague[9].[/QUOTE]

Well there are far more verses than that. Even in the NT, there are verses preaching exclusivism and intolerance. Oh of course, all this was from “our arse” right?

Christians and Muslims dislike other religions. They all have a sense of superiority over practitioners of other religions (and the other religions themselves). Such a seemingly innocent attitude can propagate over time and result in many horrific actions being committed. Christians and Muslims can never, and never will, show mutual respect, a far more powerful thing than tolerance (which implies barely putting up with something) and something that implies unconditional regard for other practices.

I am beginning to understand, with progressively greater clarity, the connections between the Hindu descriptions of Kali Yuga and the plague of Abrahamic religions…

Not a single actual verse was quoted or referenced. No verse was explained in its context. And no proof was made that these verses apply to the reader today, as if the Christian is exhorted to kill infedels and heretics, which most certainly he is not.

This is an example of Hindu logic and debate skills?

Not very impressive.

They are just accusations, and anyone can make accusations.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;45222]Yes, I understand none of this goes on in contemporary Christianity. However, you do need to realise that in older Christianity this did go on. Much of the violence and bloody history that Christianity has was justified using the OT.

If I just take the NT ONLY there is no way that any of that can be be used justify violence, death and destruction. On the contrary it promotes a message of peace, tolerance, love.

However, later on the original Christianity was usurped by the Roman empire. They tagged alongside it the OT in order to justify their henious crime in ethnically cleansing pagans. They set up clergies where men were arbitarily given positions of being people of god - and spokespeople of god. These men could order whatever they wanted and then claim it was god’s will. They could interpret the gospels as they wanted and then claim it was the real message. This is how the Roman empire used the religion of Christianity to justify the death and destruction and oppression of the masses. Anybody that challenged the religion of Roman catholicism, even Christian traditions who did not agree with their interpretation of Christianity, was put to death, arrested or penalized.
Later on, the same tactics were used by the Church to slaughter and convert Africans, Native Americans, Australian Aborgines, Indians.

In contemporary times these kind of genocides no longer go on, because the Church would never get away with it. However, the Church does sponsor subversive activity in third world countries in order to make them hate their indigenious religions and cultures. Activities like targetting vulerlable tribal and lower castes in India for mass conversions and telling them to hate Hindu culture and not associate with Hindus is a common practice by the Church in India. It is sponsored by powerful Church organizations internationally such as the Southern Baptist Church.

You need to separate the Church from Jesus Christ. There is Jesus whose teachings and stories are recorded in the OT. And then there are men who have appointed themselves as the arbiters of your religion, who do horrible things in the name of your Jesus.

You do not need a Church to practice what Jesus taught. Jesus taught you to live in a way of love, peace, tolerance and to imbibe within yourself the divine qualities. To live for god and live for him. You can do that in your own private space. You do not need the Church to do that.

Reject the religion of Christianity that has been created by men. Embrace Jesus and his teachings in the NT.[/QUOTE]

I am glad that this is the stance that you have on Christ. But I believe that there are some Christian denominations that abide by the above. Brethern, Amish and Quakers (all members of Anabaptist) subscribe to no creed or “formal” set of rules. The only goal in life is to live as Christ did. Peacefully, Simply, and together. The church is thought of as a community of believers that support and love one another in all things. There is no badgering to join the community and all people of all backgrounds, creeds, relgions, race and sexuality are welcome to attend as a seeking believer.

As for the “Church” (the whole of all Christian Believers) there are many differing factions. However, there must be a church (or rather a community of believers according to Christ) that share, grow and learn together. Christ taught in this way and his followers traveled with him. The purpose of this community of believers is this:
we can each learn some of what Christ taught on our own, but as humans we also learn by watching the lives of others. When we see their pain from a death, divorce, affair, or the joy that comes from children, marriage, success; we learn how to love, have compassion, and most of all faith. Faith that we are not alone on this little blue planet, in the middle of a universe so large that we can not fathom its size. Faith that we are all a part of the same family whether we are Christians, Hindus, Buddest, Muslims, Athiest, Mormons, Baptists, Agnostics, or Pagans.
Nameste
TeeA

This budy scales is another one cut up in words.what do you know about yoga? hahhahaah
you are in the state of yoga with the bla bla bla god of poop.

[QUOTE=thomas;45263]Not a single actual verse was quoted or referenced. No verse was explained in its context. And no proof was made that these verses apply to the reader today, as if the Christian is exhorted to kill infedels and heretics, which most certainly he is not.

This is an example of Hindu logic and debate skills?

Not very impressive.

They are just accusations, and anyone can make accusations.[/QUOTE]

Actually, verses WERE referenced in Surya Deva’s post. The verses are self-explanatory; they clearly sanction intolerance, murder, rape, and etc. All the remains is for an open-minded Christian (excuse the oxymoron) to check them out.

Is your pick-and-choose method an example of Christian logic and debate skills? It indeed is; all Christians commit the logical fallacy of “begging the question” when they cite quotes from the Bible as if it were the supreme source of knowledge without ever proving its historicity or validity.

Very impressive actually. More evidence to prove that the plague of Christianity must be driven out.

They were not accusations. They were proof and not anyone can come up with valid proof.

Thomas is a christian that want to be like Darth Vader.hahahhahaah with what the cockroach count to be?

Thomas,

Perhaps I can explain with an example. The Hindu (upanishadic )view is that there is only one universal force -known by various names -paramatman. The closet English equivalent, I think , is consciousness. This universal force manifests in various forms- humans , animals, ianimate matter etc. A good example is Electricity. It is invisible and cannot be seen/felt except as the light in a bulb, as the turning force in an electric motor etc. Electricity by itself has no atrributes (except potential). When passed through the filament of a bulb it lights up, caused the motor to run etc. The attributes therfore belong to the instrument (bulb, motor) but this attribute lies dead without the life giving force of electricity.

Thus Consciousness (God, Parmatman -etc) is inactive (akriya) bu itself -it is neither good nor bad, it just is – (Lord Krishna 's word to this effect in the BG-he does not partake of the good effects or the ill effects of man’s actions). The virtues or evil effects are due to the tendencies (karma ?)of the body through which consciousness is acting (good man/evil man/passionate man/just man ??)

Hindus scriptures state that we are all parmatman by true nature. However we tend to be ignorant of this truth as we identify ourselves with the physical body, which by nature is gross and confused. Break the identification with the body and you are one with God. This is what is meant by self realisation.
Hope this helps. :stuck_out_tongue:

Ravi

[QUOTE=thomas;45209]This is where I get confused, core, is that sometimes it seems Hinduism is saying that we retain our individuality, and sometimes it seems to be saying that we are God, the one god, and just don’t realize it, and that whatever concept we have of a self is an illusion.

And how come you got rid of that cool avatar you had?[/QUOTE]

If any specific verses were quoted that demonstrate that believers are told to kill heretics, please direct me to the post. I missed it.

all Christians commit the logical fallacy of “begging the question” when they cite quotes from the Bible as if it were the supreme source of knowledge without ever proving its historicity or validity.

Yeah, well who did that here? Nobody. That statement is irrelevant.

But (out of context) Bible quotes are good enough for you when you want to bash Christians with them.

I can indeed cite from Christian and Islamic scripture that tells you very explicitly to destroy the idols and places of worship of non-Christians and non-Muslims

I’m not interested in the Islamic scriptures you can cite, but am most interested in the ones from Christian scriptures that “explicity tells me to destroy the idols and places of worship of non-Christians.”

You say you can cite these scriptures, but why didn’t you?

Which scriptures are they? I would appreciate a little citing.

[QUOTE=reaswaran;45276]Thomas,

Hindus scriptures state that we are all parmatman by true nature. However we tend to be ignorant of this truth as we identify ourselves with the physical body, which by nature is gross and confused. Break the identification with the body and you are one with God. This is what is meant by self realisation.
Hope this helps. :stuck_out_tongue:

Ravi[/QUOTE]

IMHO you are quite right.

[QUOTE=teitan;45270]This budy scales is another one cut up in words.what do you know about yoga? hahhahaah
you are in the state of yoga with the bla bla bla god of poop.[/QUOTE]

I.

win.
:stuck_out_tongue:

Praying to the Saints. One body. Very Interesting. I do this all the time!

Very handy set of friends to have. Actually the best.

lol

Keep praying .Bacarefull the saints dont turn in to demons and devour your thoughts.Every call is for sure answer but by who? hahahahaha cross your fingers kids not to lose your souls in the quest.
Teitan

Maybe he become the biggest Darth vader Christian cockroach out there.hahahha.Even the pope in Rome will give him the chair.