Is Yoga Hinduism?

[QUOTE=teitan;45391]Keep praying .Bacarefull the saints dont turn in to demons and devour your thoughts.Every call is for sure answer but by who? hahahahaha cross your fingers kids not to lose your souls in the quest.
Teitan[/QUOTE]

What is to fear?

I’m quite aware that others can hear me. Whoever they be . . .

There is no quest for I. But mission.

I can get advice if I need it. It has proven true - enough. For my understanding.
and My own processes are the final call.

You are kinda dreadful - so I think I’m going to put you on my ignore list.

[QUOTE=teitan;45391]Keep praying .Bacarefull the saints dont turn in to demons and devour your thoughts.Every call is for sure answer but by who? hahahahaha cross your fingers kids not to lose your souls in the quest.
Teitan[/QUOTE]

You are seriously starting to remind me of this one demented missionary…

So where are those verses?

Just a claim they exist but no proof?

If you’ve got the goods, then post them.

Time to put up or withdraw certain accusations.

Yoga WAY predates the religion of Hinduism. That said, there is Hindu Yoga (or Indian Yoga co-oped by Hinduism), Tibetan Buddhist Yoga, Taoist Yoga, the list goes on…
Yoga is NOT Hinduism. I can participate in the spiritual practice of Yoga without in any way taking part in or subscribing to the religion of Hinduism.
& none of the “Hindus” I know practice Yoga. Most of them are disgustingly materialistic and overweight and have the flexibility of a pry bar. However, Indian Yoga is inextricably intertwined with Hinduism & I’m talking all of the Yogas (Karma, Bhakti, etc). Yoga has its roots in the Vedas and the early Upanishads and is concerned primarily with consciousness, not devotional worship.
Besides the fact that many Indians don’t consider non-Indians Hindu for no other reason than that they aren’t Indian… I could practice Hatha Yoga and meditate upon Om 'til I’m floating & light is shooting out of all of my orifices (& I do mean all), but I won’t be Hindu.
Thus… Yoga isn’t Hindu.

[QUOTE=Indra Deva;45409]Yoga WAY predates the religion of Hinduism. That said, there is Hindu Yoga (or Indian Yoga co-oped by Hinduism), Tibetan Buddhist Yoga, Taoist Yoga, the list goes on…
Yoga is NOT Hinduism. I can participate in the spiritual practice of Yoga without in any way taking part in or subscribing to the religion of Hinduism.
& none of the “Hindus” I know practice Yoga. Most of them are disgustingly materialistic and overweight and have the flexibility of a pry bar. However, Indian Yoga is inextricably intertwined with Hinduism & I’m talking all of the Yogas (Karma, Bhakti, etc). Yoga has its roots in the Vedas and the early Upanishads and is concerned primarily with consciousness, not devotional worship.
Besides the fact that many Indians don’t consider non-Indians Hindu for no other reason than that they aren’t Indian… I could practice Hatha Yoga and meditate upon Om 'til I’m floating & light is shooting out of all of my orifices (& I do mean all), but I won’t be Hindu.
Thus… Yoga isn’t Hindu.[/QUOTE]

I like your style you should be my friend.

[QUOTE=thomas;45406]So where are those verses?

Just a claim they exist but no proof?

If you’ve got the goods, then post them.

Time to put up or withdraw certain accusations.[/QUOTE]

Didn’t I say in my other post that you can look them up or reject them? There’s really no point in pulling up verses as you will obviously challenge them and present some far-fetched personal interpretation of those verses which tries to make it more humane. (Besides, digging through the Bible and searching for those verses makes me nauseated)…

Seems like rejection to me. I don’t have anything else to say on this matter.

[QUOTE=Indra Deva;45409]Yoga WAY predates the religion of Hinduism. That said, there is Hindu Yoga (or Indian Yoga co-oped by Hinduism), Tibetan Buddhist Yoga, Taoist Yoga, the list goes on…
Yoga is NOT Hinduism. I can participate in the spiritual practice of Yoga without in any way taking part in or subscribing to the religion of Hinduism.
& none of the “Hindus” I know practice Yoga. Most of them are disgustingly materialistic and overweight and have the flexibility of a pry bar. However, Indian Yoga is inextricably intertwined with Hinduism & I’m talking all of the Yogas (Karma, Bhakti, etc). Yoga has its roots in the Vedas and the early Upanishads and is concerned primarily with consciousness, not devotional worship.
Besides the fact that many Indians don’t consider non-Indians Hindu for no other reason than that they aren’t Indian… I could practice Hatha Yoga and meditate upon Om 'til I’m floating & light is shooting out of all of my orifices (& I do mean all), but I won’t be Hindu.
Thus… Yoga isn’t Hindu.[/QUOTE]

I detect the logical fallacy of “begging the question” in the very first sentence of your post. Please provide VALID archeological and historical evidence (which is widely accepted by scholarly consensus) that Yoga predates Hinduism.

I agree with your second point. Yoga is NOT Hinduism. It is a PART of Hinduism/other Dharmic faiths (which stem from Hinduism); things can still be a part of something and not share EVERY characteristic of the whole. No you don’t have to be a Hindu to practice Yoga but that doesn’t make it non-Hindu or negate its Hindu roots. I can still worship Jesus (:???:slight_smile: but that doesn’t make it any less Christian simply because I am an Indian worshiping him.

Lol. I will admit that it is awkward for us Indians to see a non-Indian Hindu (initially) but you’re a fool for thinking that we don’t consider them Hindu. I have seen several non-Indian Hindus in many of the temples I go to and they mingle along with the other Indians and show their enthusiasm for Hinduism like the rest (even more so than most Indians). No one doubts that they are Hindu (or else why would they go to our temples, most Indians say). Only a certain sect of Hinduism views it as something you have to be born into to be a legitimate Hindu. And there’s a reason why only a (very) small portion of Hindus subscribe to it these days.

Yoga came from Hindu teachings. Buddhism and its other forms came from Hinduism. Therefore, yoga came from Hinduism and is a Hindu “thing” no matter how you would like to diversify it.

Another anti-Hindu Westerner is added to my list…

I checked this entire thread. No such verses were cited in spite of claims they could be cited.

There is nothing in Christianity in the scriptures or oral tradition that tells the Christian they should destroy idols and places of worship of those outside of the faith. Any statements to that effect are false, and no wonder so much time is spent dodging the issue instead of production the scriptures, which would be easy to do IF they existed.

I shouldn’t have to go on a wild goose chase of my own looking for something that doesn’t exist.

:cry:

Another anti-Hindu Westerner is added to my list…

Oh noes…you are now on “THE LIST.”

My condolences.

I hope I’m not on it. Disagreeing with a couple of Hindus who lie about my religion doesn’t make me an “anti-Hindu Westerner” does it? :frowning:

[QUOTE=thomas;45446]I checked this entire thread. No such verses were cited in spite of claims they could be cited.

[B]There is nothing in Christianity in the scriptures or oral tradition that tells the Christian they should destroy idols and places of worship of those outside of the faith.[/B] Any statements to that effect are false, and no wonder so much time is spent dodging the issue instead of production the scriptures, which would be easy to do IF they existed.

I shouldn’t have to go on a wild goose chase of my own looking for something that doesn’t exist.[/QUOTE]

:lol: HAHAHA! HAHAHA!!! Since your’e so eager.

Leviticus 17:7-9: “And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils…Whatsoever man…that offereth a burnt offering or sacrifice, And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer it unto the LORD; even that man shall be cut off from among his people.”

Numbers 1:51: “…when the tabernacle is to be pitched, the Levites shall set it up: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.”

Numbers 3:10: “…they shall wait on their priest’s office, and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.”

Numbers 17:13: “…whosoever cometh any think near onto the tabernacle of the Lord shall die.”

(Regarding the treatment of non-Israelites who come too close to the temple).

Deuteronomy 17:2-5: “If there be found among you…[a] man or woman…[who] hath gone and served other gods and worshipped them…then shalt though bring forth that man or that woman…and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.”

Deuteronomy 32:16-20: “They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger. They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.”

Psalms 106:35-38: “But were mingled among the heathen, and learned their works. And they served their idols: which were a snare unto them. Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils…”

Corinthians 10:20-21: “But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils.”

Corinthians 6:14-17: “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers [in Christ]: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial [Baal]? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel…Wherefore come out from among them and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.”

Timothy 4:1: “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils…”

Revelation 9:20-21: “And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk.”

Exodus 23:24 Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.

(Look these up…too tired)

Exodus 22:20
Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Mark 6:11
John 5:19
1 John 2:22
2 John 1:10
Jude 5

Countless others that will just have me bursting out in laughter. So what will you say? “Oh, those are not really…blah blah blah blah…continues equivocal speech on what is Christian and what is not by redefining Christian a dozen times and by tossing in modern secular and humanistic ideals while ignoring 2000 years+ of intolerance, hate, genocide, etc…”

Once again, there are no verses telling ME the Christian, or any other Chrisitians to do those things. These were addressed to particular people in particular times.

Oh noes…you are now on “THE LIST.”

My condolences.

I hope I’m not on it. Disagreeing with a couple of Hindus who lie about my religion doesn’t make me an “anti-Hindu Westerner” does it? :([/QUOTE]

No, that just means you’re a Christian.

[QUOTE=thomas;45449]Once again, there are no verses telling ME the Christian, or any other Chrisitians to do those things. These were addressed to particular people in particular times.[/QUOTE]

Lawl. Then if it wasn’t addressed to anyone, then why is it in the Bible? For showcase? Interesting tidbits on the (lack of) development of primitive Semitic shepherds? You do realize the Bible is in second person right? Isn’t the Bible and everything in it the word of god (don’t even want to capitalize it)? You do realize that many of those verse actually refer to YOU? Does a quote literally have to have YOU in it for you to derive some teaching from it? Won’t that discount almost all of the bible, which contains parables and stories for the READER to derive a message from even though it doesn’t say YOU? Does the Bible have to have a quote addressed to YOU in the modern times for it to have a message? Won’t that automatically discount 100% of the Bible which was written (well) before the 21st century?

Here you go, ignoring these passages for what they say and mixing in modern humanistic and secular ideals to deny the content of these passages, choosing the ones which fit the aforementioned ideals (which are antithetical to Christianity if I might add), and throwing in some vague criterion to dispose of the rest of the Bible which does mention those things ALL THE TIME. Did you even look the remaining passages up? Did you even look the ones Surya Deva cited but did not specifically quote? I noticed how you replied within a minute of my posting.

So now that I have established that a Christian will do the very same thing I stated he/she will do before I posted these quotes, do not ask me for quotes again until you develop the maturity of a rational human.

You’ve established that you will do anyhing to distort another religion, including taking quotes out of context, and then make your own conclusions about what that religion is or what it ought to be, based on ignorance and bias. You don’t give two hoots what the religion itself or the believers themselves say about what this means.

The assertion was made that Christians are exhorted to destroy idols and places of worship of other faiths, and I assert that statement has in no way been supported and is false.

Hurray! Look at how Thomas closely follows the script I predicted he would go by!

Well Thomas, go ahead and believe what you will. The rest of the sane world (does not include most Christians and Muslims) and I will continue to believe the blatant facts.

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;45485]Hurray! Look at how Thomas closely follows the script I predicted he would go by!

Well Thomas, go ahead and believe what you will. The rest of the sane world (does not include most Christians and Muslims) and I will continue to believe the blatant facts.[/QUOTE]

Yes, quite perceptive that you predicted I would say the sky is blue after you said it was green.

And none of your NT quotes are even relevant. Throwing as much stuff against the wall as you can and hoping something will stick is not a valid method to make a case. But I think in your case it’s a form of therapy.

Yes yes, believe what you will.

I can’t be bothered anymore in showing Thomas what his OT says. Thomas clearly ceases to be rational and objective as soon as its own religion is the object of inquiry. He even defended the recent scandal of sex abuse and child molestation in the Church and the covering up by the Vatican and the current pope, that even the most PC brigade on this forum headed by Lotusgirl did not support.

I am going to treat it as a mental shortcoming and move on.

Then show me the historical and archaological evidence when Yoga started and the historical and archaeological evidence where Hinduism started.

Yoga has its roots in the Vedas and the early Upanishads and is concerned primarily with consciousness, not devotional worship.

Wow really? Now correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t the Vedas the beginning of Hinduism? Isn’t Hinduism called the Vedic religion? Are Vedas not regarded the highest scripture of Hinduism and anything which contradicts the Vedas is considered heresy? In which case if Yoga starts in the Vedas and Hinduism starts in the Vedas, then it means both Yoga and Hinduism start in the Vedas and neither one preadates the other.

The idea that Hinduism is different from Yoga is an ignorant view held by people who are ignorant about Hinduism. This includes not just non-Indians, but Indian people as well. They only look at whats on the surface and conclude that is Hinduism. My dear, underlying the bhakti, rituals and temple is Yoga.

There are three major traditions in Hinduism, correct? Vaishanavism(the majority of Hindus today are Vaishnavas) Shivaism(the majority of Tamil Nadu are Shiavists) and Shaktism(Most Hindus worship Durga/Kali/Amba) These three traditions are mainly bhakti traditions. This means they largely practice temple worship and murti puja. But what scriptures do they follow? The Vaishnavas follow the Gita, the bible of Yoga. The Shiviasts and shaktas follow the agamas and tantras the second highest authorities(regarded as revealed scripture) on yoga after the Gita and Vedas. They believe in exactly the same doctrines that Yoga is constituted of:

  1. Union with the ultimate reality/Brahman
  2. Dharma
  3. Karma and reincarnation
  4. Samkhya cosmology(25 tattvas)

In fact a section of Vaishnavas, Shivaists and Shaktas in addition to bhakti also practice japa meditation. Some also practice dhyana using their saguna brahman.

How then is Yoga different from Hinduism? It is not that Yoga and Hinduism is different. It is you who are ignorant of what Yoga and Hinduism is about.

I thought that it was common knowledge. I’m sure a simply Google search will provide you with evidence of Yoga’s age. Yoga postures carved in stone dated to 3000BCE, etc, Yoga mantra I used today being dated before 1000BCE in the Upanishads & Vedas from the Indus valley culture.
The cultural religion of Hinduism came out of Vedic philosophy. Yoga IS Vedic philosophy. I’m not saying that one is better than the other, I read Hinduism Daily, Hinduism has a lot of great stuff. But just because Hinduism co-opted Vedic philosophy as it’s core that doesn’t make them the same, or that Yoga comes from Hinduism. The historical record just doesn’t show that.

I agree with your second point. Yoga is NOT Hinduism. It is a PART of Hinduism/other Dharmic faiths (which stem from Hinduism); things can still be a part of something and not share EVERY characteristic of the whole. No you don’t have to be a Hindu to practice Yoga but that doesn’t make it non-Hindu or negate its Hindu roots. I can still worship Jesus (:???:slight_smile: but that doesn’t make it any less Christian simply because I am an Indian worshiping him.

I agree, but it’s a fine line. I think it’s most accurate to say that there are parts of Hinduism that are Yoga, that Hinduism has some Yoga in it, not that “Yoga is part of Hinduism”. That makes it sound like Yoga comes from Hindusim and that’s not the case. If someone where to look at Hinduism and Yoga’s exposure to Westerners I suppose this kind of post hoc could happen.

Lol. I will admit that it is awkward for us Indians to see a non-Indian Hindu (initially) but you’re a fool for thinking that we don’t consider them Hindu.

Uh, I’m not a fool concerning this. I’ve heard many people talk about this, Western Hindus weren’t allowed into certain temples for the lone fact that they weren’t Indian. You may not have experienced it, and I’m not saying that it happens everywhere all the time, but it’s happened enough for people to say “it happens”.

I have seen several non-Indian Hindus in many of the temples I go to and they mingle along with the other Indians and show their enthusiasm for Hinduism like the rest (even more so than most Indians). No one doubts that they are Hindu (or else why would they go to our temples, most Indians say). Only a certain sect of Hinduism views it as something you have to be born into to be a legitimate Hindu. And there’s a reason why only a (very) small portion of Hindus subscribe to it these days.

Yoga came from Hindu teachings. Buddhism and its other forms came from Hinduism. Therefore, yoga came from Hinduism and is a Hindu “thing” no matter how you would like to diversify it.

So the historical record doesn’t matter to you? that Yoga is a Vedic spiritual practice and that Hinduism developed out Vedic philosophy many centuries later?

Another anti-Hindu Westerner is added to my list…

I’m not “anti-Hindu”. Please don’t label me as such.