Is Yoga Hinduism?


#1341

[QUOTE=Sahasrara;63407]I love your frank and straight way of putting it :slight_smile:

However, but for freely practicing it, you cannot take it, steal it or own it or give it to some for a while to play.

Sanatha Dharma is “Akshaya Patra”, and that fed you just one plate of meal (Yoga), because you are hungry :slight_smile:

If you need everlasting, full course tasty food from this “Akshaya Patra” always, immerse yourself in this with love, pride and dedication.

Otherwise, eat this one plate happily and (“Sun”) salute and go on with your life. Your karma will bring you back in your next birth to the other side of the coin :)[/QUOTE]Well said Sahasrara! People don’t always understand cold logical explanations, but when you speak to the heart, it will be recieved better.


#1342

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;63404]Yoga may have belonged to the Hindus once upon a time, but then I broke into to their house and found two Yoga books. One had gibberish all but unintelligible to the white man whereas the other looked promising. Now I have the latter and I dare anyone to try and take it back. But, little do I know that I stole nothing and that Hindus had the last laugh. [/QUOTE]

Fix’d.


#1343

Flex,

“Yoga may have belonged to the Hindus once upon a time”

More ignorance. If yoga is Hindu, then quantum physics is American. Yes, the people who have happened to discover the science were Hindus, that does not mean the yogic sciences are Hindu. A science is just that, a science. It has nothing to do with religious or cultural identities, although it may be discovered amongst a certain kind of people.


#1344

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;63422]Flex,

“Yoga may have belonged to the Hindus once upon a time”

More ignorance. If yoga is Hindu, then quantum physics is Scientific. [/QUOTE]

Fix’d


#1345

Nietzsche,

“Terms such as “Dharmic” and “Hindu” are synonymous. Deal with it.”

I have no problem with the word, you are the one who is infatuated by it. As far as I am concerned, words have no meaning in themselves. Call it “Dharmic” call it “Hindu”, call it whatever you want - but existence itself has no idea of anything “Dharmic” or “Hindu” - existence makes no discrimination between weeds or flowers, jewels or dung.

“Yes, it now refers to the “whole package.” Deal with it.”

If that is the case, then you will have to drop your discrimination between Buddhists, Sikhs, and Jains as well, with all of their countless sects and sub-sects, who have also made use of the technology of yoga with tremendous intensity. It would be good if the word “Hindu” just simply referred to the “whole package”, but it is not really the case.

"Epic fail logic is epic fail.

The etymology of the word Hindu is meaningless in light of the fact that Dharmis of all sorts use it, among other older and indigenous terms, to refer to their culture and religion, or aspects of it, alike. "

It seems you were not mindful of my message and misunderstood. Go back and read the message with attention. I was speaking of yoga, not Hinduism.

"General knowledge belongs to no one.

Cultural and religious practices belong to/originate in different cultural groups. Yoga is Hindu/Indian/Dharmic, Shinto is Japanese, The Haka is Maori, and so on"

That is your own ignorance. Again, if the yogic sciences are “Indian”, then quantum physics is American. Science is simply science, and unless you approach yoga as a science, then you have absolutely no understanding of it.

“To truly understand Yoga and to truly appreciate it, you have to understand and immerse yourself in its cultural roots, which are Indic”

That has nothing to do with understanding yoga. Yoga is not a social phenomenon - it has everything to do with coming to know yourself, through and through. It has its roots in direct experience, in mans coming to realization of his original nature. Then - perhaps, once one started trying to transmit the way to others, it can become a social phenomenon, but fundamentally it has its roots in direct experience. Any method which leads you towards your enlightenment, is a method of yoga. If you want to understand it - then dive into the innermost depth of your own being and realize your true nature. Unless you have come to your awakening, you would not have even a spark of clarity into the matter. Even Vyasa has said, “Yoga is Samadhi”. Samadhi, like the methods of yoga, is not Hindu. You cannot put a trademark over a state of consciousness. Enter into Samadhi, and come to a direct experience of yoga. As long as you continue fascinating yourself with borrowed knowledge you have read from books and mistake this to be the essence of yoga - then even eternities will not settle the matter.

"Which are Indic in origin. "

I know you have read the above message without mindfulness. Go back and read it again with attention. This is basic yogic practice.

“All different cultures have their own way of realizing that Truth and those who are not a part of the culture have no right to decide what interpretation is acceptable.”

As yoga has its roots in direct experience of mans exploration and seeing into his own true nature, every human being has the right to interpret it in whatever way one wants. This is an inner science, and all the only pre-requisite that is needed to know about it is to be human. There is nothing “Hindu” about the fact that if you control your breath, it is possible to control the vital energies of the body as a means to enter into deeper states of awareness. Nor is there anything “Hindu” about the fact that there exist certain centers of energy along the spinal cord. Even if you are born in Japan, they will be there. Even if you are born on another planet - they are there. What you are doing is just like those who have been unable to separate science from religious dogma. Yoga is not a dogma - it is a science and it has to be approached as such. It has not to do with your imagination, but in things as they are.


#1346

Sarva,

"Fix’d "

No, you have not fixed it. If “Hinduism” is just a certain religious or cultural identity, then to say that the science of yoga is Hindu is just like saying that the science of quantum physics is American, or that general relativity is Jewish because Einstein was a Jew.


#1347

Flex,

“However, but for freely practicing it, you cannot take it, steal it or own it or give it to some for a while to play.”

Yes, I can and I have. Buddhists have done it, Jains have done it, Sikhs have done it, and I am absolutely free to use the science as a science, just as once general relativity is discovered, then scientists all over the world are absolutely free to use it - regardless of whether Einstein likes it or does not like it.


#1348

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;63422]Flex,

“Yoga may have belonged to the Hindus once upon a time”

More ignorance. If yoga is Hindu, then quantum physics is American. Yes, the people who have happened to discover the science were Hindus, that does not mean the yogic sciences are Hindu. A science is just that, a science. It has nothing to do with religious or cultural identities, although it may be discovered amongst a certain kind of people.[/QUOTE]

Amir, if I found an emoticon with tongue in cheek, I would have used it. I was not being serious, but only playing with the idiot notion bantered about ad nauseum. Of course I recognize the Hindu roots, and its universal property rights. :wink:


#1349

“Terms such as “Dharmic” and “Hindu” are synonymous. Deal with it.”

I have no problem with the word, you are the one who is infatuated by it. As far as I am concerned, words have no meaning in themselves. Call it “Dharmic” call it “Hindu”, call it whatever you want - but existence itself has no idea of anything “Dharmic” or “Hindu” - existence makes no discrimination between weeds or flowers, jewels or dung.

“Yes, it now refers to the “whole package.” Deal with it.”

If that is the case, then you will have to drop your discrimination between Buddhists, Sikhs, and Jains as well, with all of their countless sects and sub-sects, who have also made use of the technology of yoga with tremendous intensity. It would be good if the word “Hindu” just simply referred to the “whole package”, but it is not really the case.

"Epic fail logic is epic fail.

The etymology of the word Hindu is meaningless in light of the fact that Dharmis of all sorts use it, among other older and indigenous terms, to refer to their culture and religion, or aspects of it, alike. "

It seems you were not mindful of my message and misunderstood. Go back and read the message with attention. I was speaking of yoga, not Hinduism.

"General knowledge belongs to no one.

Cultural and religious practices belong to/originate in different cultural groups. Yoga is Hindu/Indian/Dharmic, Shinto is Japanese, The Haka is Maori, and so on"

That is your own ignorance. Again, if the yogic sciences are “Indian”, then quantum physics is American. Science is simply science, and unless you approach yoga as a science, then you have absolutely no understanding of it.

“To truly understand Yoga and to truly appreciate it, you have to understand and immerse yourself in its cultural roots, which are Indic”

That has nothing to do with understanding yoga. Yoga is not a social phenomenon - it has everything to do with coming to know yourself, through and through. It has its roots in direct experience, in mans coming to realization of his original nature. Then - perhaps, once one started trying to transmit the way to others, it can become a social phenomenon, but fundamentally it has its roots in direct experience. Any method which leads you towards your enlightenment, is a method of yoga. If you want to understand it - then dive into the innermost depth of your own being and realize your true nature. Unless you have come to your awakening, you would not have even a spark of clarity into the matter. Even Vyasa has said, “Yoga is Samadhi”. Samadhi, like the methods of yoga, is not Hindu. You cannot put a trademark over a state of consciousness. Enter into Samadhi, and come to a direct experience of yoga. As long as you continue fascinating yourself with borrowed knowledge you have read from books and mistake this to be the essence of yoga - then even eternities will not settle the matter.

"Which are Indic in origin. "

I know you have read the above message without mindfulness. Go back and read it again with attention. This is basic yogic practice.

“All different cultures have their own way of realizing that Truth and those who are not a part of the culture have no right to decide what interpretation is acceptable.”

As yoga has its roots in direct experience of mans exploration and seeing into his own true nature, every human being has the right to interpret it in whatever way one wants. This is an inner science, and all the only pre-requisite that is needed to know about it is to be human. There is nothing “Hindu” about the fact that if you control your breath, it is possible to control the vital energies of the body as a means to enter into deeper states of awareness. Nor is there anything “Hindu” about the fact that there exist certain centers of energy along the spinal cord. Even if you are born in Japan, they will be there. Even if you are born on another planet - they are there. What you are doing is just like those who have been unable to separate science from religious dogma. Yoga is not a dogma - it is a science and it has to be approached as such. It has not to do with your imagination, but in things as they are.[/QUOTE]

This is nothing more than a stinking pile of illogical arguments and more ignorance.

I’m sick of constantly arguing this point.

Yoga is Hindu/Indic/Dharmic in origin and no white man can never change that fact with endless games of semantics.


#1350

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;63425]Sarva,

"Fix’d "

No, you have not fixed it. If “Hinduism” is just a certain religious or cultural identity, then to say that the science of yoga is Hindu is just like saying that the science of quantum physics is American, or that general relativity is Jewish because Einstein was a Jew.[/QUOTE]

This is not true because you make the logical fallacy (as is your wont) of equating parts of a whole with another whole.

Quantum Physics is not American but Rationalism and the Scientific Method are indeed Western.

Yoga, on that note, is indeed Indian/Indic/Dharmic/Hindu.

You also make the logic mistake of thinking that adjectives such as “Western” and “Hindu” denote a sense of absolute possession. They do not. Adjectives merely qualify the subject. Yoga is indeed Hindu/Dharmic/Indic/Indian but does not belong to the Hindus. However, as it is a cultural matter, it would be wise for everyone to seek the opinions of those born into that tradition in matters of conflict.


#1351

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;63425]
No, you have not fixed it. If “Hinduism” is just a certain religious or cultural identity, then to say that the science of yoga is Hindu is just like saying that the science of quantum physics is American, or that general relativity is Jewish because Einstein was a Jew.[/QUOTE]

You have the answers to all your challenges, but you do not want them.

Here is the clue:

In all your posts, replace the word “Hindu” by the native word “Sanathana Dharma” and read them. If you still have some doubts, read them again and read them loud enough that you really spend some time to think and read.


#1352

I have no problem with the word, you are the one who is infatuated by it. As far as I am concerned, words have no meaning in themselves. Call it “Dharmic” call it “Hindu”, call it whatever you want - but existence itself has no idea of anything “Dharmic” or “Hindu” - existence makes no discrimination between weeds or flowers, jewels or dung.

No one is infatuated with the word “Hindu” here, deluded and ostentatious prevaricate. Its just a word that has come into common usage by Indians today. That is why I use it.

More display of logical fallacies here. Grow up out of your moronic thinking. Humans do perceive the world in such a way and this is not a bad thing. Weeds are better than plants since one is inimical to natural growth whereas the other is not. The fact remains that Yoga, in the fullest sense of the word, is Indic/Indian/Hindu/Dharmic, in much the same way that Rationalism and the Scientific Method are concepts that were propounded to their fullest degree in the Western world (so they are WESTERN). There always exists an objective reality within a relative framework.

With your kind of weird (il)logic, I can make the same arguments about every single discovery or invention in human history. I could say that Newton wasn’t British because British has no meaning in and of itself, when it clearly DOES have a meaning to the people it refers to and to humans in general.

Humans are the sole arbiters of their own existence. Don’t be so arrogant as to presume that you can transcend that perception and dictate the pros and cons of that perception. You are just an ignorant white man with so much left to learn in life.

If that is the case, then you will have to drop your discrimination between Buddhists, Sikhs, and Jains as well, with all of their countless sects and sub-sects, who have also made use of the technology of yoga with tremendous intensity. It would be good if the word “Hindu” just simply referred to the “whole package”, but it is not really the case.

And here, you have contradicted yourself. Where is your all famous nihilistic argument about the inherent lack of meaning in all words, things, and etc? If you were truly consistent with your argument you would not have cared what the Buddhists or the Sikhs think of themselves (and if you were truly aware of the general definition of Hindu/Dharmi, then even nastika schools like Jainism/Buddhism would fall under Hinduism/Santana Dharma, and so would Sikhism, the once-reformist sect of Hinduism).

Do you agree with me that humans obviously do perceive reality objectively? A Sikh would view himself as a Sikh. So would a Jaina and so would a Buddhist. A Sikh would view the Waheguru as a Sikh concept and a Buddhist would view the Pali Canon as a Buddhist scripture.

So why make a separate case for Hindus? Are you prejudiced against Hindus Amir? I’ve observed your ignorant posts for a long time now Amir and I’ve seen strains of scorn for Hindus/Indians.

about the fact that if you control your breath, it is possible to control the vital energies of the body as a means to enter into deeper states of awareness. Nor is there anything “Hindu” about the fact that there exist certain centers of energy along the spinal cord. Even if you are born in Japan, they will be there. Even if you are born on another planet - they are there. What you are doing is just like those who have been unable to separate science from religious dogma. Yoga is not a dogma - it is a science and it has to be approached as such. It has not to do with your imagination, but in things as they are.

There is something “Hindu/Dharmic/Indian/Indic” to it, because the Indians found it and incorporated such techniques into their religion and culture since time immemorial. Thus, Yoga was born and came to have distinctly Indic roots. Yoga isn’t just your typical breathing and moving but also something that heavily incorporates Hindu spirituality and thought. Without the latter element, Yoga isn’t Yoga anymore. Hell, a considerable part of the movements and breathing wouldn’t even be THERE if the Hindu elements were diluted to nothingness.

In the same way, the concept of the underworld isn’t any more Greek than it is Japanese, but the concept of “Yomi,” is indeed Japanese with Japanese cultural connotations.

In the end, your arguments are nothing more than a stinking pile of illogical arguments and ignorance.

I’m sick of constantly arguing this point.

Yoga is Hindu/Indic/Dharmic in origin and no white man can never change that fact with endless games of semantics.

EDIT: Please disregard the post above. I exceeded the 30 minute limit during my edit process.


#1353

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;63385][B]And one thing more dat ppl should thank God dat yoga was result of hinduism[/B]

First, it should be important for one to understand that what you are referring to as “Hindu” does not refer to any particular religion. The word “Hindu” simply comes from the word “Indu”, and had been used to refer to those who had been living as part of the Indus civilization and along the banks of the Indus river. Those who were living in this geographical area were referred to as “Hindus” when other conquerers entered into the land. The word “Hindu” is simply a geographical identification - it does not refer to any particular religion, but the culture itself which has flourished in this area. That is why the word is as vague as vague can be - you can be an atheist and be a Hindu, you can be a theist and be a Hindu, and you can have no concern whatsoever with either atheism or theism, and still be a Hindu. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . … Only those who are willing to loose their lives ever come to know of the fragrance of eternal life.[/QUOTE]

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Well Mr. Amir Mourad firstly i should accept that you yourself hasn’t read my post with mindfulness as expected. I didnt say that yoga is hinduism but a science dat has its origin here in full fledged form. And as for the word hinduism and its context i would say if a lie is repeated over and over it shines like a lovely truth in the end. Whether one calls something this or that its just for the purpose of pointing to a thing and that word changes its content and meaning wrt space and time and the same thing happened to the word hinduism and i hope u can understand this and i prefer to use the word hinduism for pointing towards indian religion and spirituality but you are free to use any other after all we are free beings.
Yes i agree dat the spiritual tradition of hindus are vast enough but can’t agree dat you can’t fit them into a fixed category. Well if you have known the indian philosophy you would know all spiritual tradition are outcome of a fixed source and they are the Veda and from it sprung the main philosophies like Nyay Vaishesik Sankhya Yoga and Mimans and you can fit them into these categories and you just took a part of it and thats the Yoga philosophy which is complete in all respect to merge you into the truth as other philosophies thoug it depend on the seeker at last and and its idiotic to reach any conclusion without seeing a whole picture as i previously pointed out in my previous post. Wrt the absolute agreement between spiritual tradition i would say it is there but the path are different and so wrt whats seen in treading those path disagreemet will be there and thats simple logic so what else disagreemet you would propose.
No one is clinging here dat yoga is hinduism but its overall discovery is here,thats it.And its simply illogical to say dat since buddhism jain christian made use of yoga so yoga has nothing to do with belief system. I would its the belief system in the core that led them use it and with them using it they invented their own belief system and it could be any type like believing in supreme god head or pure all prevailing consciousness or the unaffected static soul that finally “compelled and led” them to realise it. Belief system is either brought forth by logical deduction or subtle inquiry into the working of nature and this in turn either take the form of yoga nyay sankhya or other philosophies whch in turn helps native in emancipation or say realise the truth. I m not saying dat belief makes one realise truth but compell someone in one way or the other and the right belief comes out of logical deduction or for someone else other means.
At last i m feeling sleepy…,well where this word “sleepy” invented though it can’t be discovered…


#1354


#1355

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;63435]Amir, if I found an emoticon with tongue in cheek, I would have used it. I was not being serious, but only playing with the idiot notion bantered about ad nauseum. Of course I recognize the Hindu roots, and its universal property rights. ;)[/QUOTE]

No you don’t. Then again, you’re just and old, stupid, and fat white man, and former KKK member who’s about to die. Your death will be a blessing to humanity and anything you have said prior to it is unimportant and unremarkable.


#1356

" WAR OF THE “WORDS” " releasing at your nearest hall after the end of this unending post.


#1357

Westerners have difficulty understanding Hinduism, because it is such a diverse religion. In the western world, religions are very similar to each other. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all basically the same religion with minor differences, still there is no peace among them. Together they have wiped out all other pagan religions in the west. In western religion there were wars between one sect of Christianity and another, or one sect of Islam and another. There is little room for diverse views in these religions. Christians have killed each other because they disagreed whether Jesus was made out of God or rather made of the same stuff of God. Someone who has an abrahamic mindset, can never see Hinduism as a religion. But Indians see it differently, like the Shankaracharya of Kanchi said, the goal must be unity and not uniformity. The dharmic religions and the abrahamic religions are two completely different paradigms. Yoga itself is intimately connected with Sanatana Dharma. It’s ironic that people try to isolate yoga from its context, Amir Mourad is fond of quoting that yoga means unity (most people have heard of this). Let’s look closer where does this definition really come from. It’s not in the yoga sutras of patanjali, but in the yoga yajnavalkya samhita, another Hindu text. It should be clear that one can only understand yoga through Sanatana Dharma or Bharata Dharma, however you want to call it, because yoga is permeated through it and the dharmic teachings are an integral part of yoga.


#1358

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;63473]No you don’t. Then again, you’re just and old, stupid, and fat white man, and former KKK member who’s about to die. Your death will be a blessing to humanity and anything you have said prior to it is unimportant and unremarkable.[/QUOTE]This seems rather unnecassary. :frowning:


#1359

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;63473]Happy to hear from you again. I must say you are a just intelligent, and wise man, and a yogi who should live forever. Your life is a blessing to humanity and anything you have said is important and remarkable.[/QUOTE]

Since everyone is fixin’ stuff around here, I thought I would do my bit to tidy up the place.


#1360

Well i was giving a little thought about the question is yoga hinduism? And it came to my mind that when some people here say that yoga is hinduism they are not totally wrong. Religion means as far i think is that which shows the right path the right thing to do and the right way of living according to the truth they realised in context to the nature soul and their correlation. And as far as hinduism is concerned yoga which owns its roots to veda and based on sankhya philosophy to an extent shows according to simple logic that yoga is indeed a part of religion followed by hindus. As far as Mr. Amir deduction that if we say yoga is hinduism than it means as if saying quantum physics is american but i fear he is correlating two different areas one dealing with spirituality and religion and other relating to gross materialism. Yoga is a science but not a dead science in which consciousness plays no role and along with it it shows the way of life in essence the art of living. Religion means more than worship of god. It shows the right path to follow and one path is yoga in which yam and niyam shows the right attitude and consciousness to follow in this world according to the laws of nature so that the individual lives a perfect “natural course” of human life and the other cumulative parts of yoga takes the soul nearer to himself and this is what religion is all about. So to say yoga is religion and yoga is hinduism fits right. For some people here taking yoga merely as a set of physical exercise and a kind of mechanical science that leads to the truth and nothing to do with religion is as idiotic as saying quantum physics is a religion that leads individual to realise his soul or realise the truth and leads to salvation. And so yoga is a part of the hindu way of religion from time immemorial as prayer to god forms an integral part to the christian and muslim religion. If it wouldn’t have been than yoga would have found its place in other religion too(well buddhism and jainism can be seen as a result of hinduism) but thats not the case though some uniformity of other kind is prevalant everytime. Some people call hinduism a culture well i would say that the religion itself has found its place in their culture which has remained unchanged and thats why its so rich in its spiritual science and in the west the culture itself is becoming religion day by day which changes everyday;so i would say thats why they looking forward to indian religion particularly yoga and some parts of other so as to lead the right way of life that finally leads to free oneself from the circle of life and thats what religion is all about and thats what hinduism has in it. Call it a religion or a culture it has something for everyone.