Karma - can it be altered?

Spirituality Religion
#1

In some branches or sects of Buddhism etc everyone has their own Karma - some of which you [B]can[/B] change, some of it you [B]cannot[/B]

Do people feel this to be true or that everyone has their Karma mapped out and you cannot change any of it? That would be my view - it cannot be altered one bit. My explanation would be even though we have free will to do what we like, before the earth was even formed God / Cosmic Intelligence / the Cosmos (whatever you term it) it was known exactly when we would be born, where, everything in our life that would occur, etc i.e. God knows everything being Omniscient, Omnipotent, & Omnipresent and eternal always existing, every detail every action of our life was known exactly how it would play out before we were born , before even the Earth was formed. So in that sense even though we have seemingly free will , our Karma is predetermined and cannot be altered one bit.

For example, If I go to travel somewhere, change my mind and go somewhere else, the change though seemingly free will and it is in a sense as I am making decisions & choices, but in reality the change deciding to go somewhere else was known and predetermined before I was born and before the Earth was even formed. So we do have free will to make any choices we want, though whatever changes or choices we do make were all predetermined and mapped out exactly as they happen. That [B]does not [/B]mean sit and twiddle your thumbs ‘this is my Karma I can’t change my life or circumstances’ as some do, just that you can’t change anything even though you have free will and choices to do what you like.

That is my opinion , do most think we have Karma some of which you can change & some you can’t / or you can change all of it / or you can alter none of it?

#2

[QUOTE=MindNinja;54711]In some branches or sects of Buddhism etc everyone has their own Karma - some of which you [B]can[/B] change, some of it you [B]cannot[/B]

Do people feel this to be true or that everyone has their Karma mapped out and you cannot change any of it? That would be my view - it cannot be altered one bit. My explanation would be even though we have free will to do what we like, before the earth was even formed God / Cosmic Intelligence / the Cosmos (whatever you term it) it was known exactly when we would be born, where, everything in our life that would occur, etc i.e. God knows everything being Omniscient, Omnipotent, & Omnipresent and eternal always existing, every detail every action of our life was known exactly how it would play out before we were born , before even the Earth was formed. So in that sense even though we have seemingly free will , our Karma is predetermined and cannot be altered one bit.

For example, If I go to travel somewhere, change my mind and go somewhere else, the change though seemingly free will and it is in a sense as I am making decisions & choices, but in reality the change deciding to go somewhere else was known and predetermined before I was born and before the Earth was even formed. So we do have free will to make any choices we want, though whatever changes or choices we do make were all predetermined and mapped out exactly as they happen. That [B]does not [/B]mean sit and twiddle your thumbs ‘this is my Karma I can’t change my life or circumstances’ as some do, just that you can’t change anything even though you have free will and choices to do what you like.

That is my opinion , do most think we have Karma some of which you can change & some you can’t / or you can change all of it / or you can alter none of it?[/QUOTE]

Of course not! Karma can be abated to significant extents depending on the actions you take here and now.

#3

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;54773]Of course not! Karma can be abated to significant extents depending on the actions you take here and now.[/QUOTE]

“Of course not” was a response to the question you first posed in the second paragraph.

#4

Nietzsche,

You managed to completely miss the point I was making. Every seemingly free will change you make in your life , every action it was known before you were born or the Earth was even formed exactly what you would do. You can change your mind 10 times right now on what you will write here, or if to write at all - whatever choice you make it was known and predetermined before you were even born. Yes, you have free will to do whatever you like and make choices and changes but are you really altering your Karma, when it was laid out exactly what would happen in your life and every decision or choice you would make before you were even born?

Re-read my original post above - i.e. God knows everything being Omniscient, Omnipotent, & Omnipresent and eternal always existing, every detail every action of our life was known exactly how it would play out before we were born , before even the Earth was formed. So in that sense even though we have seemingly free will , our Karma is predetermined and cannot be altered one bit.

#5

If you already know the answer to the question, then why do you ask the question?

According to Hindu understanding of karma, and we are the original teachers of karma, our actions are not predetermined, but are free. God having knowledge of our every actions is not the same as our actions being predetermined, it simply means god is infinitely pervading in time and space and thus knows everything.

However, as you have a finite mind you cannot even hope to comprehend the infinite mind, until perhaps you reach absolute realization. Until then, you are living in a conditional world of time and space which is governed by laws of time and space. You as a conscious agent have your intentions and choices on what actions you make. The actions you make will then trigger of reactions as per the law of karma. However, even in this case, through action in there and now the intensity of the reaction can be minimized or completely eradicated.

As we are largely asleep beings we do not realise just how much our behaviour is driven by unconscious forces and thus our free will is highly restricted. As we become more and more awake we gain a lot more freedom and our free will becomes a lot more active.

#6

Can karma be altered?

Yes, it can.

You can alter it’s flow and direction. If you bleieve something can be true then there is much more chance it can or will become true.

Past can be for practicality’s sake irrelevant. fUture does’nt exist. So what you have is the present. Sometimes doing alot of nothing is good karma. There is alot of that in yoga.

If you want to seriously alter the flow of your karma i reckon you’re workiing more directly on the causal plane itself or just making mindful day-to day choices. For that you need a serious sadhana for alot of folk i suspect that incorporates some meditation in it .; that component could be while doing asana or contemplation or deep meditation.You can also try to cultivate the witness state in your day-to-day living.You make the choices and you accept the consequences, whether they’re agreeable or less agreeable.

To put it simply, every action has a reaction.If you studied physics at school etc you will have observed the experiments etc( i had one teacher that used to always push 4 choo-choo trains against 1, with predictable results). Our finite and limited minds will not comprehend or even be able to fathom the unfathomable & infinitely endless and complex chain of cause and effect.A million super computers could’nt even make sense of it.But the moment presents us with opportuities to somehow alter the flow. I really t hink this is probably most effectively done with something like deep meditaiton or other ongoing yoga practices.When i say you’re operating on the causal plane itself or near it then you’re gooing deep in your sadhana. This is where inner guru manifests. When choices arise you just know what to do, plus you have the discrimination and so on.You don’t need to listen to anyone else.

#7

You don’t need to listen to anyone else because inner guru is supreme guru and is also that which chooses without thinking, without the confusions of the mind.

#8

[QUOTE=MindNinja;54798]Re-read my original post above - i.e. God knows everything being Omniscient, Omnipotent, & Omnipresent and eternal always existing, every detail every action of our life was known exactly how it would play out before we were born , before even the Earth was formed. So in that sense even though we have seemingly free will , our Karma is predetermined and cannot be altered one bit.[/QUOTE]
let’s see, i’m guessing you’re not christian!?!??

#9

Quoting ‘LaPlace’s Demon’.
?We may regard the present state of the universe as the effect of its past and the cause of its future. An intellect which at a certain moment would know all forces that set nature in motion, and all positions of all items of which nature is composed, if this intellect were also vast enough to submit these data to analysis, it would embrace in a single formula the movements of the greatest bodies of the universe and those of the tiniest atom; for such an intellect nothing would be uncertain and the future just like the past would be present before its eyes.?

The past action makes the soul to choose the present genetic combination including proneness to deceases or other mental and physical dispositions but his present karma decides his epigenetic where the genes may be switched on or off to ether punish or reward him. Results of some Karmas, are best left unattended and are carried forward.

We are robots with a free will, resultant karmas under free will against the universal law binds you and restricts your free will in future.

#10

[QUOTE=vata07;54833]let’s see, i’m guessing you’re not christian!?!??[/QUOTE]

This is relevant how?

#11

all the ‘karma’ tied to one [I]can[/I] most certainly be dissolved.

#12

[QUOTE=MindNinja;54798]Nietzsche,

You managed to completely miss the point I was making. Every seemingly free will change you make in your life , every action it was known before you were born or the Earth was even formed exactly what you would do. You can change your mind 10 times right now on what you will write here, or if to write at all - whatever choice you make it was known and predetermined before you were even born. Yes, you have free will to do whatever you like and make choices and changes but are you really altering your Karma, when it was laid out exactly what would happen in your life and every decision or choice you would make before you were even born?

Re-read my original post above - i.e. God knows everything being Omniscient, Omnipotent, & Omnipresent and eternal always existing, every detail every action of our life was known exactly how it would play out before we were born , before even the Earth was formed. So in that sense even though we have seemingly free will , our Karma is predetermined and cannot be altered one bit.[/QUOTE]

I will admit, I have little knowledge in this area.

Your post, however, follows from the assumption that destiny itself is predetermined, defeating the purpose of you trying to explain to me why it is so.

#13

From the Ocean floor;
buckled earth pushes a
frightening wave.
Tribulation.

#14

By sincere sadhana all the karma can be dissolved, it may take long time but you can do it in one life as many spiritual masters demonstrated!

#15

I believe we’re kind of like dust in the wind. The direction being the decisions we make, the wind being free will, dust being us.
I don’t think our lives are pre-determined. I think that we determine what happens. We’re all just the same eye looking at different patterns in a kaleidescope… What we get is partially a result of karma generated from our past lives that (in my belief) if learned from (the results of our bad karma) if we make a good decision with what we were handed, the bad karma will be righted and we’ll be that much cleaner and have generated more good karma.
Another part of what decides our lives is our minds, the way we perceive things will change our fate and what life brings us. It’s said in the Tao Te Ching, something along the lines of: one who follows the way encounters no tigers or wild ox. I may have butchered it but I believe I conveyed the meaning.
I don’t really believe in “concrete” anything in terms of physical existence, happenings, or something pre-determined.
It seems to me that if our lives were predetermined and not just dust blowing haphazardly, it would imply that “God” has an attachment to the idea of how our life should be, which, would be sin. And I don’t believe God would have an attachment since it’s produced by our weak, human perceptions.
A mistake that’s commonly made with religious philosophy, though I’m not saying it was made here, is the attempted application of human nature, logic, and perception. People trying to make sense of it in a logical way instead of seeing how it unfolds like letting a flower bloom in your mind instead of forcing the petals apart.
That’s just the way i currently see things. I think the Universe is forgiving like a parent, a Buddha, or anybody that loves another should be forgiving. That’s why I don’t think negative karma can stick for too long if you right your wrongs.

#16

[QUOTE=The Scales;54928]all the ‘karma’ tied to one [I]can[/I] most certainly be dissolved.[/QUOTE]

Into what?

Anand

#17

Into what?

exactly!

#18

I’ve only witnessed a single happening of karma being “altered”.

A man, in his late 50s, wanted to marry desperately, didn’t want to spend the last part of his life alone. 4 different astrologers said there was no possibility whatsoever. After much struggle he found a woman and is married until this day.

What did he do? He was a celibate pujari for 15 years. :slight_smile:

However, I’m sure the altering part is just due to our limited knowledge. Who can say this wouldn’t be his karma in a future lifetime?

To understand karma one really needs to let go of concepts of space and time. Imagine you were thinking about a concept that you can’t digest, a hard thing in your life, now you need to travel to another city, mishappenings take place, you lose a job, difficulties, perhaps even a divorce, you meet new people, now you’re back to the old place, you sit at night and say to yourself: Now I get it! By then you can almost realize all of what happened in the span of maybe 5 years (that is but a blink of an eye to the ever in the present eternal atma) was just so you could better realize yourSelf. You see yourself as pure consciousness and life isn’t your true life, but just a play, a path, “back to Godhead” as Prabhupada would say. So I see… :wink:

Om

#19

Dear Friend:

Effects of past deeds [B]can[/B] be countered by present deeds. Something like overeating last night being countered by fasting today. Such countering is [I][B]“purushartha”[/B][/I].

Another way is to set aside body and mind awareness, f[B]or some time daily[/B] and thus allow prana shakti to work her way into the storehouse of karma, where, prana shakti would act upon the samskaras (deep rooted tendencies) to produce yoga-kriyas that effectively are complete culminations of one’s karma.

The residual karma is thus altered.

This of course is a slow process and is available easily through mahayoga.

Regards, anand

#20

Thanks. That’s reassuring. :slight_smile: