Kundalini and the Breathless State

[umunhum]

More understanding is coming to me. You create a vacuum when you exit Maha Mudra by letting less air in compared to the amount of space that you open up in your breathing passageway by coming out of Uddiyana and Jalahandra. Your lower breathing passageway is trying to suck air in and your tongue is the valve that is letting the air in. The higher the pressure you keep, the quicker it will still the tissues in your lungs and breathing passage.

At any time you want (after kechari stage 2 is achieved), you can seal the lower part of the breathing passage with the tongue and then blow air out the nose and create an even stronger vacuum in the upper nasal pharynx. This will allow you to very intensely stretch out your tongue making it longer and more importantly thinner. You need a thinner tongue because as Jesus said “narrow is the way” to slide your tongue up into your nose and push on the nerves above it. Creating a high pressure atmosphere in your upper nasal cavity causes the tongue to dance a bit and makes licking the G-Spot tissue for Amrit child’s play for the tongue. As I wrote before, this also causes the nasal pharynx’s concavity to contract putting the ear flaps underneath the tongue creating a suction to pull out the Amrit. The stillness in your lungs from compressing the air puts you in a really deep meditative state. I wrote about wanting to do this 8 months ago.

This is what happened when I first had the vision of the archway. Sometimes when I put my tongue into the nasal passageways, there is a flap in each covering the holes, sometimes there is no flap in either nostril, but most of the time there is a flap in one or the other nostril. Meaning one side of the brain is dominate. (one nadi is flowing more than the other – energy imbalance) When I first started doing the Sham-Kech-Moo Kriya 6, something I was doing was making both flaps appear, this created the vacuum in my nasal pharynx that would pull on my tongue. And so my tongue kept gagging me because my frenulum was too long and so my tongue couldn’t go up and was bunching at the back of my throat. That explains the physiological part of the experience, the vision of the archway was the divine telling me to keep doing what your doing, you found the path, Kechari is the key!

I was wrong to say there is some magnetic attraction between Ajna and Vishuddha, it was just a vacuum that I somehow created by having both nostrils covered with the small flap of skin that comes out sometimes and covers the top of them. I did the Kriya just like it is written in the book in Siddhasana, Kechari (obviously), and I would squeeze off 10 to 20 moos on the exhale kumbhaka. That, the grace of the divine or something made both flaps cover my nostrils and this happened multiple times and many different days. Turning your kundalini on is just stilling the air in the lungs long enough so that the Apana mixes with the Prana.

Practicing a lot of Talabyas help because you are constantly sealing off the throat in the first part of the exercise. Maybe the act of doing that 200 times causes both flaps in the nostrils to appear. I have to figure out what makes both flaps appear because that is the key to turning on your kundalini before you reach kechari stage 2. After you reach stage two, you just do what I described above and I think Shazam! You just have to seal off the nasal pharynx with your tongue and keep some pressure in the lower breathing chambers.

I completely understand what Yukteshwar meant by saying you learn a lot more from practice than you will ever learn reading a book. When you truly want to know the truth about who and what you are (practice), the divine will help you and guide you along the way.

I am amazed that I have never read about these flaps in any yoga book especially because I now realize the importance of them. In fact here is a tribute video of Satyananda. The reason he is leaning on that crutch in the pictures at 2:10, 2:34, 2:46, 2:55, and 6:02 always on the left side is he is making the Ida nadi dominate (keeping the flap covering the right nostril so the left nostril is open and the right part of the brain is dominate. I’ve read that meditation is much more effective with the right brain dominate:

Seeking, you’ve been in Kechari for almost a year now. What is your experience with these flaps in the holes of the nasal openings? Have you put your tongue through the holes and felt the tissue up above them?

Here is a diagram of what the nasal pharynx feels like with the tongue:
(Obviously nothing is to perfect scale)

The bottom three quarters of a square line is your tongue. It is impossible to slip it in the nasal passage way without turning it. The small ovals with the black line in the middle are the top of the two nasal passages. The black line in the middle is the top part of the nasal septum. This area conducts a lot of electricity with the top round part conducting the most. The quarter moon shapes are the flaps of the ears with the dots being the tunnel to the ears. These flaps protrude out into the nasal pharynx. I have no idea what role creating a vacuum in this chamber is doing to the ear tunnels. They always seem blocked when I try to equalize (a scuba diving technique where you block your nose with your fingers and blow out your nose sending the air out your ears.

As you can see by this drawing, the ear flaps are in a position to help turn the tongue sideways to slip into the nose holes. When you create a vacuum in the pharynx and raise the tongue, they slide underneath the tongue at the sides which creates a suction pulling out the Amrit from the G-Spot tissue on the back side of the pharynx. The top half of the diagram represents the back side of the nasal pharynx. The small circles at the top are the G-Spot tissue and the round circle in the middle is a bony protrusion sticking out.

In retrospect, I should have made the small ovals (nasal openings) black like the ear tunnels.

This is the type of conversation that I want to have with people. I want to talk about the physiological aspects of Kriya Yoga. The reason I am writing this is because I am so grateful for Ennio, Manoj, AYPsite, Anmol Mehta putting out all the information that they do for free guiding me to the point I’m at right now. Hopefully somebody can benefit from my experience.

I’m still flipping out over Jesus talking about Kechari in his Sermon of the Mount!

I don’t understand Jnana and when other people talk about samadhi – but it doesn’t matter, my path is Kriya… Both the Lahiri linage and Sivananda linage say that Samadhi comes after the kundalini is turned on. I have read that Ramana was jnana. I have read some of his stuff and bought two of his books that I have to get to. He became enlightened in a flash and didn’t eat for months. David Hawkins says that about 50% of people that become enlightened just check out and die. They’ve had enough of the body and don’t want to return.

A guy I converse with at the gym says that Yukteshwar was a Jnana. His guru was Lahiri so that doesn’t make sense to me. He is in SRF and so we can’t talk in much depth. I don’t think I can untie my mind with my mind. I would much rather practice the breathing techniques.

I remember reading about how Yogananda was about to swat a mosquito that was sucking his blood and he looked up and saw his guru looking at him. Yukteshwar said you might as well kill it because you already have the karma for it by thinking about doing it. I love David Hawkins talk about a Tyrannosaurus Rex being a great example of the ego. It’s all about me. It doesn’t care about the feelings of the things that it eats. So of course you want to kill the people that cut you off in traffic. They don’t deserve to live. Of course little Susie wants to drowned her playmate and eat all the cookies. That’s the ego. I would like to watch all of Hawkins DVD’s but it costs several thousand dollars for them.

I’ve been studying The Course of Miracles which Hawkins highly recommends and is Jnana. And I believe it helps you recognize the games the mind plays. Hawkins says you should bless anyone that cuts you off in traffic because they are reminding you that you are too attached to the world. He also says that as you raise your consciousness (through Jnana practices like the book A Course in Miracles) that the chakras will open and the energy will rise to your heart.

I think I now know everything that I need to know to make it to the first stage of samadhi. I have a feeling my guru will be waiting for me when I get there. I don’t know about opening up the rest of the chakras yet and how all that fits in. Also don’t know what is the best way to get the Amrit flowing before I can tip over the holy grail with my tongue. Who knows how long it is going to take to stretch the tongue and then be able to get through the electricity above the nasal holes?

Thank you for the private note and I agree with most of what you said. That said I feel compelled to continue to share. Karma – the more I try to help other people – the more help will be giving to me. I am slowly piecing this together but there are still some gray areas that I need help with.

[QUOTE=omshanti;83409](especially posting such things where beginners and naive people are looking for guidance.)[/QUOTE]

Well until the next time I write to you Nubes and Naivetes,

Namaste ;o)

[Suhas_Tambe]

Try a simple step and you will know what to work more on. Just review your posts to notice how much of the effort is on the physical plane to activate/ regulate the subtle and vice versa. One does that only initially. But constant practice has to lead you into the subtle to reduce the physical efforts gradually and reversing the process - using subtle to regulate the physical. The aim here is not to achieve something per se; but to transform. Move towards progressive release from the gross and becoming the subtle. Unless the lure and captivity of tangible practices recedes, the journey in the subtle domain alone doesn’t start.

[Suhas_Tambe]

Try a simple step and you will know what to work more on. Just review your posts to notice how much of the effort is presently on the physical plane to activate/ regulate the subtle. One does that only initially. But constant practice has to lead into the subtle to reduce the physical efforts gradually and reversing the process - finally, using subtle to regulate the physical. The aim here is not to achieve something per se; but to transform. Move towards progressive release from the gross and becoming the subtle. Unless the lure and captivity of tangible practices recedes, the journey in the exclusively subtle domain doesn’t start.

For example, rechaka, kumbhaka etc have to undergo a paradoxical turn. In the initial stages one may be required to do labored efforts to achieve them; but eventually, the prana control has to become the mainstream practice and breathing will become redundant. Then rechaka, kumbhaka WILL HAPPEN.

The hallmark of the subtle level life is peace. Peace that is ennobling, unifying and insightful. It also reduces agitation and one slides into relaxed indifference for many aspects of material life.

[Seeking]

Here are some good pictures I just found.

It has been quite some time since I focused very much on the places the tongue actually goes as I have become accustomed to the structures contained within the skull.

If you take a look at the link for the first picture you will see how the nasal septum starts out thin on the bottom with a frenulum of sorts connecting to the soft palette it then widens and becomes cartilaginous and thicker in the middle.

Unlike the picture of this person the middle portion for me is wider.

Once then over the top of the two sides of the breathing passages there is an area that is pit like in the way it feels to the underside of the tongue and soft to the top tasting side. It goes that high. At other times it prefers to lay straight up against the back of the throat pointing straight up instead of going forward and up.

I have found that while practicing Kriya Pranayama and the Prana becomes very built up and strong the tongue respond attempting to got upwards and forewrds to its limits, Depending on the energetic demand the tongue goes deeper or not.

I have found in the after poise of Kriya that the tongue can take either route but when focus finds its desire in Sahasrara it tends to lay along the back wall of the throat and go upwards more than upwards and forewards.

In all cases I never make the tongue enter Kechari nor do I direct the way it points I always without exception allow the tongue to enter into Kechari as it as the subtle body and energy will it.

This will occur outside of Sadhana at times but mostly not.

When practicing Kriya Techniques the energy movements are present from the start and the tongue automatically seeks the back wall of the throat and lays taste side against it then the soft pallet mover forwards welcoming it in then the tongue slides straight up the wall and forwards or not and then the soft pallet swallows the tongue to the hilt, root floor of the mouth, as this is happening the mind becomes more silent and energetic conductivity at first is very pleasurable it is like connecting a power cable to a dark building and all of a sudden there is a surge and the light come on very bright then dim to normal then this is when it smooth’s out and becomes very serene.

From this the breathless or still state of breath occurs and can happen immediately. What I find is that the still breath occurs because the mind becomes captured by the bliss breathing interrupts this bliss state so the body being a pleasure seeking pain avoiding creature by design automatically follows the bliss and the still breath is a side effect. By following the bliss the mind dissolves in it and ceases to function in the typical way or at all for periods of time I know not how long.

There are many variations in infinite combinations and infinite degrees of bliss thus Yogananda wrote God is ever new joy. Here is a site that quotes him better than I.

http://www.yogananda.com.au/pyr/pyr_eye1b-god.html

I feel no attraction to inserting the tip of the tongue into the turbinate areas to either side of the septum center. In the after poise phase of Kriya though I have on occasion been led to automatically perform alternate nostril breathing using the tongue from within to block the passage ways and this is far more effective and easier than using ones fingers and thumb from the outside.

[umunhum]

You are worth enduring 100 Trolls! That is an amazing picture that helps clarify everything I wrote in my last post! I can tell by looking at it, that the picture was taken with the subject’s chin down just like in the position of Jalahandra bandha because the G-Spot tissue is pulled up towards the front side of the pharynx. The nasal pharynx area is not set, it obviously moves around a little when you move your head or open and close your mouth. It shows the flap like tissue blocking the right nostril and it looks like the left nostril is half blocked by the one in it. Also, [B]notice that the passageway to the tenth gate is through the nostril holes but above the fleshy part that leads down to the bottom of the nose. Two passageways lead to each of the nostril holes. [/B]

Off to the right and left of the nasal openings are the ear like appendages [B]that help turn the tongue sideways to slip into the “tenth gate”[/B]. Right below the first letter “E” in the word Science and right below the letter “A” in Library is the middle of the left and right ear flap respectively. You can see in this picture that you can get the tongue above these flaps and if there is a vacuum in the pharynx area, the concavity will contract in and the flaps will hold the tongue to the roof of the pharynx placing the tongue right on the G-Spot.

I knew what was going on inside me but this is an amazing picture that clearly shows everything! Thank you so much for this!

The second picture shows how there is a gap in the spinal column to the brain that kechari bridges. I don’t think that little piece of vertebra at the top is accurately placed, I think it protrudes more into the throat. Also the cup part of the Sphenoid Sinus should be facing up – this is the fountain of youth that contains the Amrit that we need to tip over with the tongue that then drips down into to pharyngeal tonsils. [B]At first I thought Dynamic Jalahandra was to open up the throat now I wonder if it is to spill the Amrit? Any inverted pose would do this![/B]

More understanding is coming to me. When you create a vacuum in the nasal pharynx, the vacuum takes the tongue straight for the Amrit. The tongue naturally curls up like you’re going to do Sitali Pranayama forming a cup like structure for the Amrit to fall in. This also puts you into Shambhavi Mudra. Something about having a vacuum in this area pulls the eyes to the Ajna like a magnet. This morning my eyes uncontrollably locked into Shambhavi. This is the first time this has happened and it was an amazing experience. This is definitely opening up my Ajna. I feel it pulsing. [B]When thine eye is single the body is full of light[/B], another quote from Jesus, just popped into my head. According to Om Shanti, it was my ego that just put that thought there, this is not the original kriya, it’s very dangerous what I’m doing and “there is no reason to trap the tongue”. So don’t try this at home kiddies. Then again Lahiri writes:

106. Do not be idle. Practice Kriya. Do not wait for advice to practice Kriya.
107. Exhaust your breath in practicing Kriya. Eventually breath will be Sthira, Tranquil.

I have to be getting Amrit because I’m never hungry now. This just started about the time my tongue did it’s little rain dance. First you get to Kechari stage 2. It takes about two months to keep a connection with the secret spot and burn up the frenulum. After this is done, the Vishuddha opens and you can seal the nasal pharynx completely and create a vacuum. That said my seal isn’t good enough to effectively do internal nadi shodhana yet.

[QUOTE=Seeking;83420]I have found that while practicing Kriya Pranayama and the Prana becomes very built up and strong the tongue respond attempting to got upwards and forewards to its limits, Depending on the energetic demand the tongue goes deeper or not.[/QUOTE]

Are you sure it is energetic? At first I thought that too, but now I think it is all about the vacuum you create.

[QUOTE=Seeking;83420]I feel no attraction to inserting the tip of the tongue into the turbinate areas to either side of the septum center. In the after poise phase of Kriya though I have on occasion been led to automatically perform alternate nostril breathing using the tongue from within to block the passage ways and this is far more effective and easier than using ones fingers and thumb from the outside.[/QUOTE]

Turbinate? So that is what it is called. I didn’t think about doing it either. At first I explored a bit but found the inner part of the tubinate area to be extremely sensitive. Now I realize that that is current flowing and this is the way to samadhi. I am slowly working up the time I spend touching this current with the tip of my tongue and am now up to about a minute or so. After doing this earlier today I started to see a lot of purple in my third eye and could faintly see the star in the middle.

I started practicing a new exercise walking to the gym today. I do about 60 breath of fires to decarbonize my body, seal off my lower breathing chamber with my tongue [B]on an exhale to pressurize the lower chamber[/B], exhale a few more times out my nose and seal off the upper chamber creating a pretty good vacuum and then play around stretching my tongue. When the carbon build up lets you know you need to exhale, repeat the exercise.

[umunhum]

[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;83417]Try a simple step and you will know what to work more on. Just review your posts to notice how much of the effort is on the physical plane to activate/ regulate the subtle and vice versa. One does that only initially. But constant practice has to lead you into the subtle to reduce the physical efforts gradually and reversing the process - using subtle to regulate the physical. The aim here is not to achieve something per se; but to transform. Move towards progressive release from the gross and becoming the subtle. Unless the lure and captivity of tangible practices recedes, the journey in the subtle domain alone doesn’t start.[/QUOTE]

I’ve done this with Mula Bandha and this was actually the gist of my first post here. Should I just sit in the breathless state or keep doing pranayama? Everyone said to keep doing pranayama. I forget what book I was reading but it said advanced yogis don’t need to squeeze the perineum to contract the muladhara on the astral plane. They can contract it just by thinking about it. I tried doing it and could tell that I was doing it correctly. That said my new game that I like playing around with is a vacuum in my nasal pharynx. I don’t think I can do it on the subtle body without using the physical body.

Last night I went into a Maha bandha, did about 30 of the AYPsites Navis with mula bandha at the same time, inhaled just a little bit and came up with my torso right into the breathless state. It was so intense that I got frightened and let the pressure out. This morning I did it again without letting any air in and when I brought my torso erect, the pressure pulled my tongue right out of kechari. I am going to keep practicing this as well.

[Seeking]

Thank you for the new pictures in your profile I can see that you have done a very nice job of removing the Lingual frenulum from your picture of being in Kechari.

This certainly shows you have the dedication and are reporting your findings from experience, which sadly is lacking here and on other forums as well.

There is allot of mind scatter and opinions but very little real experience being shared.

I salute you. People reading these forums could do far worse than to listen to that which you report from actual experience. One thing is for certain between my sharing the Kechari experience by not cutting the frenulum using Talabya Kriya only ( FYI this does not involve sawing the tongue on the teeth. ) and your removal people are going to learn more about Kechari than has ever been publicly shared before.

To answer your question about being sure if it is an energetic experience versus Vacuum I will attempt to do my best below.

Please excuse the analogy but there is no other way I can think of that accurately describes the energetic demands the tongue experiences in sadhana how it feels other than by comparison with anatomy all men share in common.

It occurs the same may be true of women & their anatomy but not having the anatomy I can not say.

To the person reading this I write try your best to really read what is being written so you can comprehend if you just give this a casual once over you are likely to upset yourself and miss the meaning.

The best analogy I can give is that of a Penis that has become not only erect but there is a desire for it to be used for it’s reproductive function.

Now all men know there is erect and then there is really, really, really erect.

One female may have what it takes to get the parts in gear and ready to work but the female that really turns you on makes all the difference.

The penis will be extra excited the erection longer and harder and the energetic conductivity very present and impossible to ignore and one will most definitely feel strong pulsation and vibration from the front Kshetram of the second Chakra Swadisthana into and along and through the organ of reproduction.

Now this is what it feels like in the tongue in Kechari but here are the big, big big differences.

#1. In the first example the flavor, vibratory rate essence is mostly second Chakra with 1st and third blended to a lesser extent and is well fluidity like in nature it is not a very highly vibratory state at all it is rather slow pulsing in large waves that build and that crash and recede in oscillation by comparison with the energy that is manifested in the centers as one goes upwards. As one goes upwards the wavelengths shorten considerably and there the peaks and valleys are much closer together giving the impression of greater speed.

#2. Kriya Practice as is traditionally taught by the Lahiri Mahasaya lineage purposely engages all the centers from bottom to top and top to bottom creating the movement in sushumna from the practice and the energetic conductivity I encounter in the spine and the tongue in Kechari. I may not speak for another persons practice from a different school as it is different and as should be expected there are differences in experience.

#3. The quality of the energy encountered in Kechari is that of all of the centers below Ajna melded together and seeking upward union in Ajna and Sahasrara first it is from lower to Ajna then even Ajna blends to go to Sahasrara and feed the desire for union between the two poles of Sushumna.

So sexual energy which causes a certain energetic yearning is of 1 or all 3 of the lower located centers but expressed through the front Kshetram of Swadisthana center and is thusly felt when the conditions are correct and union is being made then released.

The type of union that occurs in Kechari is only similar in that the tongue takes on a similar impossibly energetic yearning to that of a highly aroused penis being enervated primarily from the sex center itself as happens when the excitement is right from the right conditions being met.

The feeling in the tongue is not like what a man feels in the sex organ let me be clear on this point.

What I am trying to describe is the yearning the aching the desire that it be sheathed to the hilt it has for connection the vibratory rates.

The tongue is a conduit at this point there is tremendous unfulfilled desire in it to connect Muladhara to Sahasrara to do its job to complete the circuit and this desire does not subside until it is sheathed in the skull and completes this connection to the best of its ability.

Once this happens it feels at home like ah this is where it belongs not down below with the sharp rocks called teeth Ugh!! how repulsive, tongue being in the mouth is repulsive that is the new feeling mind gets. Strange but true.

I keep writing tongue so people understand but now I am telling all that the tongue stops being the tongue as the subtle body demands this connection the tongue is the switch the connecting draw bridge piece of sushumna.

The tongue now is no longer recognized as just the thing that tastes food as the disgusting mess is smeared all over it. It is viewed, felt experienced as sushumna when in place.

The awareness one has is different and that is the point I am attempting to make above. This awareness becomes identified with the subtle body and knows the physical body exists but is not enamored of it any way. The positions become juxtaposed the subtle body takes on the position of not only preferred reality but the more enduring and real.

From this awareness understands this too is impermanent and continues on.

So the tongue is in Kechari, work has been performed in Sahasrara the entire spine has passed through the humming vibratory states brought on by the Chakras harmoniously expressing together OM is heard and a vibration from these energy centers after piercing the bindu in each and having become internalized in the sushumna.

At this point Kriya Pranayama’s are being performed first with the breath and placing OM Japa in the centers, Later the same work is performed in the still state of breath when it occurs on it’s own and this is true Pranayama.

When Ajna is reached at the medulla point and the reflection seen in Kutastha there is a very strong energy blossom that occurs here that has already occured on all the centers below it and that energy is taken up in the center of the spine and brought here where all 5 qualities are united this causes the tongue to dive as deeply as it may in ecstatic ecstasy the eyes become rooted on the root of the nose. The tongue is no longer the tongue it is sushumnas missing piece and now things are being made whole again.

From this the light of Kutastha is experienced and sounds are no longer heard all senses are internalized there is a strong connection made to sahasrara all energy seeks to go there from the perineum up up up in the middle of sushumna there is a strong desire at the top of the head that must be fed.

When the breathless states or state of stilled breath occurs then the Kriyas are performed with true pranayama which is moving the attention exactly the way it was moved with the breath. The experience is much different the feeling is of being in a very narrow tunnel thread like it is so thin.

Then in the after-poise state of Kriya the The tongue takes on the vibration of purist serenity and it is the connecting link to Sahasrara it lies against the throat wall pointing straight up and is forgotten as higher states of being are experienced that words can not describe.

As for the Vacuum you describe yes this can be present or not and can aid in keeping the tongue in place during the initial placement of the tongue but the tongue soon grows used to it position and relaxes as if at home after a long days work until the energy is moved then it reacts like water bieng turned on in a hose.

When the desire is present and strong the tongue fills areas in the skull it normally can not when it is first inserted. so the sequence goes like this.

1.Talavia Kriya is practiced this generates saliva and cleanses the pallet and the tongue as well as warms up the tissues.

2. Placing Om Japa in the centers is practiced it is during this time that the energetic reaction of the centers begins harmonizing as each lamp lights and vibrates at its specific frequency the spine begins to take up the vibration of the centers and starts to magnetize. The Bindu of each center is pierced by placing OM Japa into the chakra from the rear Kshtram and entry into sushumna begins from C1 to C6 at Medulla and each one in-between the vibratory frequencies felt are the awareness traveling the bindu into sushumna.

3.Once the sushumna has been entered from the rear kshetrams via technique and the conditions met the tongue lays against the back wall of the throat this is caused by energetic desire I have tried to explain the soft pallet opens a small hole for the tip of the tongue when they touch the first waves of ecstasy are experienced this is from the Talu Chakra located at the end of the hard pallet.

4.I stay here and witness that which occurs staying out of my own way trying to just let go and experience rather than allow the shock to make the body tense.

5. The desire the ecstasy continues to build all of the first 6 main Chakras and Talu are harmonizing OM is heard,

6.There is a feeling of strong magnetics and vibration in the upper centers of Bindu and Sahasrara and Kutastha but it is separate and not seperate at the same time.

7.There is a strong desire for the tongue to penetrate and become sheathed in the skull.

8. The tongue slides very nicely into place and a circuit is closed like throwing an electrical switch there is a surge as the lower portion of Sushumna is cleanly connected to the higher portion of Sushumna from here the mind can become stunned by the completion of the vibratory frequencies all culminating and combining in the desire at the top of the head the breathless state occurs the still state of breath occurs this I subsides.

9. The return: When this high state begins to subside and mind again is operable it is not the same awareness state or mind I first sat down with. The spine is cleanly flowing force now the tube is open. This is opening the knot at Medulla or the knot of the tongue.

10. Now begins Mahamudra at times the still breath occurs in hitching stops I attempt to inhale but the prana takes over and satisfaction is only known by following the pranic desire to not inhale or if it is on an exhalation exhale any further. This is opening the knot of the Heart & Muladhara. Spontaneous eruptions of energy are felt in the medulla and from Anahata center the same occurs less frequently at Muladhara. Primarily between Anahata and Medulla.

11. Navi Kriya is practiced which Focuses on loosening the knot at Manipura here the still breath occurs most readily as the blending of airs occur. Note:When the still breath occurs mind and awareness become much different, even more still. Here great energy is felt at the rear Kshetram of Manipura nad Medulla /Kutastha there is a line in sushumna clearly felt connecting the two.

12. Kriya Pranayama proper which has been described above

13.Yoni Mudra Where the ring and the orb with the star are seen and entered see my Jyoti picture album. http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/members/18916-albums137.html

The after poise state of Kriya.

In every Kriya the tongue is in Kechari and completes the two pieces to make the sushumna whole. If the tongue is removed it will automatically return on its own some times flipping up into place swiftly like a dolphin jumping and flipping up out of the water.

Every Kriya builds on the work of the last and one continues to enter into states of awareness that are further and further than away from where one was when they first sat.

Tongue in Kechari via energetic demand for sushumna to be made whole is the desire felt.

I hope this answers the question completely. I prefer to answer in an experiential way but to do so requires answering as I practice and this means Kriya techniques are the ones used that aid in making the transition from the gross to the subtle body and states that go beyond both.

So this is how Kechari works with me Kriya first required otherwise there is no reason to experience Kechari in it’s operational mode.

The exception is if I take a break from Kriya practice then the energies in the body do build up and will cause the connection to occur as the centers become enervated on their own and do as I have described when placing OM Japa in the centers to enter their respective bindu and sushumna.

[Seeking]

I am not trying to tell anyone what to believe or do but when using Quotes from Lahiri one has to understand many of the quotes attributed to him were directed to a specific student in the form of letters.

When he says practice Kriya do not wait for advice it should be understood it is in reply to someone whom he had already instructed. In those days waiting for mail to arrive might have taken a long time. We can be certain that students then are like students now they take a long time to quit asking about minute details that are better answered through actual practice.

As far as dangerous I can not say the daily practice of Kechari has been dangerous and I have been at it since last September 2012.

Concerning the areas you enter into with the tongue you will have to take the leadership role here it appears that you may be accessing areas that are not yet available to myself please do continue to update us and a reference to what the 10th gate is would be helpful.

From all guessing I would have to say the tip of the tounge must be very thin and long indeed to enter those small passages to any degree.

[omshanti]

Wowza, sorry for upsetting you guys. I won’t be interfering with your discussions anymore.
I do stand by my previous statements. I think you guys are on a slippery slope, but I wish you all the best. My only intention was clarity and I apologize for interrupting your discussion. Take care guys [or girls]. I sincerely bow to you as I exit this conversation.

[ray_killeen]

[QUOTE=umunhum;83400]When I first turned on my kundalini, I went breathless for about 25 minutes.[/QUOTE]

umunhum should contact the Guinness Book of World Records and attempt the record at holding breath underwater; 22 min 00 sec.

[umunhum]

Reading the description of your sadhana, I get the image of a young suitor courting his maiden with romantic music, candlelight, loving glances and with an occasional soft touch here and there. She is slowly swept off her feet and finds herself in the midst of the fine art of courtship, seduction, and finally consummation. Whereas I just throw her on the bed and have my way with her. I’m going to have to practice your sadhana one day.

I wake up in the morning and immediately go into kechari. If I’m not eating, drinking or talking to someone, I’m in kechari. Throughout the day if I forget and spend 20 minutes out of kechari, I get disappointed and scold myself. In my sadhana I’m doing butt squeezes, stomach pumps, lame attempts at nauli, head rolls, all kinds of body locks pressurizing anything I can, but afterward I feel incredible. And most of the time during my sadhana, I feel like a highly trained athlete that is hitting his stride. I don’t buy into this there are 300 things you need to do along the way and if you don’t do them or you do them out of sequence then I’m doomed to hell for the next 20 incarnations. This is not the divine I believe in. This maybe how some “supposed” masters teach but I think it’s nonsense. The divine doesn’t penalize you for seeking.

The divine is a reality. A metaphor that I really love is the example of a movie theater. When you go to the movies and see the latest action thriller, you know everything you see on the screen is fake. Yet your mind still pumps out all sorts of adrenaline and you are taken for a roller coaster ride of excitement and various other emotions. The body acts as if the experience is real all because a light is just being placed through a bunch of still frames rolling past it. After it is over, most people walk out into what they think is the real world. The “real world” is also fake. The light of our consciousness is just being sent through the five senses and the mind. The goal is to shine the consciousness through the third eye.

If this is the case, why do we have to give up the pleasures of the 5 senses to experience the divine. Until you can regularly commune with the divine, the five senses are all we have and I don’t think we have to give them up. What happens is after you experience the divine and realize that you are connected to the divine, the five senses have nothing to offer you any more. You understand that they are just receiving different types of electrical signals that are being interpreted by the mind as good or bad. The same signals being interpreted by the third eye bring about a completely different and much more pleasurable world. And so you don’t need to give up anything or become anything, you just need to recognize what you are (consciousness), and focus your light through the third eye. (That said Don’t Spill Your Seed!). You cannot serve two masters, you can either have body consciousness (hell) or divine consciousness (heaven). And most people when given the choice give up the body.

We all have energy centers and we all have blockages that need to be cleared up. I think the exercises that I am doing are clearing out those blockages. These blockages are nothing more than stored electrical signals (karma) that I have experienced in many different incarnations according to the books that I have read. Maybe I am a fool and will run into trouble but I don’t think so because I believe that I’m being guided to do the things that I’m doing. Sometimes I feel like things happen to me and then my role is just trying to figure out what exactly it was. Most of the battle is just showing up and practicing. I like experimenting with different things and seeing what kind of effect they have on my body.

When I first started touching the top of the nasal septum (the secret spot), it felt like putting your tongue on a 9 volt battery. You would[B] feel a little shock on your tongue[/B] where you were touching the secret spot. It was no big deal. There is no doubt in my mind that my uvula burnt up the rest of the tissue of the frenulum that was holding the tongue down to the floor of the mouth. So the uvula is some kind of transformer? I wonder what the real purpose of the uvula is? Science doesn’t know and says it helps with vocalization or keeps food from entering the nasal passage. Nonsense! Once again the truth is being withheld from us.

Now when I stick my tongue in the nasal cavity up to the tenth gate, I feel an electric shock. This time [B]it is the tongue that feels like it is delivering the electricity and the sensitivity is felt in the tissue that is being touched by the tongue.[/B] And this sensitivity is far greater than what was felt by the tongue when it reaches the nasal septum. And so what is the purpose of me taking current to the tenth gate? I thought we were suppose to pinch off the nerve signals from getting through with our tongue not shock something. I’m going to have to meditate on this.

[QUOTE=Seeking;83437]a reference to what the 10th gate is would be helpful.[/QUOTE]

The tenth gate is the hole your tongue goes up to tip over the cup like structure that holds the pituitary gland. The picture you posted yesterday is the best picture of it that I have ever seen.

[B]I also very much enjoy conversing with someone who is actually practicing and talks about their experiences.[/B]

umunhum should contact the Guinness Book of World Records and attempt the record at holding breath underwater; 22 min 00 sec.

I have already addressed this issue many times on this board. If I hold my breath underwater (I can’t allow water into my lungs), carbon dioxide will accumulate in my body and I will need to breathe. The breathless state does not mean that no air is coming in and out of my body, it means I’m not breathing. My diaphragm is not moving. It is not pulling air into the body or pushing air out of the body. The significance of this is the time based part of the mind shuts down because it is powered by the diaphragm and your thought patterns change completely. The mind is made up of layers and the time based reality is one of those layers.

A subtle amount of air is coming in and out of my body through my nose. What I believe is happening (I’m speculating – but believe me that I’ve spent a great deal of time pondering this ) is that carbon dioxide has a lower molecular weight than air. We are physiologically designed so that the carbon dioxide rises and naturally accumulates in the nasal passages for exhalation. Carbon dioxide is poison to the body so of course we are designed for its efficient removal. Nature is always seeking equilibrium so if the air in my nose is 5% CO2 ( a number I pulled right out of my ass so don’t expect me to explain it) and the outside air is .04% CO2 (this number is accurate) that creates a vacuum as the air is transferred in and out of my nose. This is probably happening with the oxygen levels too. This happens really subtly and I am not controlling it nor do I feel it. If I close my nose with my fingers, I will shortly feel the need to breathe. There is no where near the amount of air coming in and out of my body now compared to before I turned my kundalini on. What do you think a baby floating in it’s mother’s tummy does with its carbon? I think it is dispersed the same way right into the amniotic fluid.

The only way to stop all air from entering and exiting the body is to stop all activity that creates carbon. This would require me to stop eating and moving around completely. I believe we will all need to do this one day to obtain the highest levels of samadhi. That is why Jesus, Moses and others fasted for 40 days. You have to stop your respiratory, digestive, and circulatory system completely to reach Nirvikalpa Samadhi. My respiratory system is shut down this I’m sure of. I can feel my diaphragm and I can feel it is not moving. Just like you can feel your hand and tell whether it is moving or not. I have no idea how to shut down my heart but Swami Rama could do it at will and even reverse the flow of blood if he wanted. I would imagine shutting down your digestive track is relatively easy.

Going forward I would rather focus on the methodology of how to reach samadhi. If you choose not to believe me, you are entitled to your beliefs.

[ray_killeen]

[QUOTE=umunhum;83451] I have no idea how to shut down my heart but Swami Rama could do it at will and even reverse the flow of blood if he wanted. I would imagine shutting down your digestive track is relatively easy.

Going forward I would rather focus on the methodology of how to reach samadhi. If you choose not to believe me, you are entitled to your beliefs.[/QUOTE]

I live in Pennsylvania not far from Honesdale ashram, was exposed to Swami Rama while he was doing his numerous and extraordinary energy control demonstrations. I envisioned your acquired skill might lend itself to the challenge suggested above.

It?s my direct experience that mystical experiences such as Samadhi etc. do not permanently remove Self ignorance or that Enlightenment is the result of comprehensive methodology, skillful technique or transmission from a guru, the spontaneous cannot be made to happen. The Yogic Sciences has positives and negatives; with proper practice produces non-dual experiences rousing one?s appetite for Self realization but does not address the limitation of experience and the problem of doership.

As far as beliefs; the Yogic Sciences were effective at brain washing, not to be confused with ?brainwashing?, rather deprograming, empting conceptual nonsense and removing beliefs, if remaining beliefs surface I?ll be sure to recognize the false as false allowing them to dissolve with the rest.

Following Samadhi Self inquiry seems a natural progression, a reorientation of the thought process around the idea of non-duality (Shankar, Ramanan, Nisargadatta lineage) until beliefs supporting Self ignorance collapse.

[Seeking]

You know Lahiri Mahasaya was a yogic genius. He took what he was taught the raw crude oil and refined it into high test fuel, for the householder.

From his practice he named Kriya I have indeed had the heart stop. This is very nice when it happens. Yes very nice.

What occurs is that there is enough something else keeping the body alive that the poor overworked heart can take a brief rest in my experience.

When this happens the wittness you observes, it is already observing something else then its attention is grabbed by the sudden stillness in the chest, it is like living in a noisy city for a while and when the noise stops you realize by it’s absence just how loud it was.

Before this occurs there is a great deal of energy moving between Anahata and Sahasarara there is bliss, there is absorbtion in the desire to merge to be with God who is without poor minds ability to put to words.

Then the heart center feels energetic fullfilment it vibrates in harmoneous frequency with the divine and stops, just stops for a while and all is calmness like the deepest most restfull state one may imagine. One feels privliiged like they have just been excused from the burden of living yet still being permitted to exist here as others are not. The living free is the expression that comes to mind. One no longer has to pay the toll of the next heart beat to be here now.

This is freedom!

There is a feeling of such relief, a knowledge gained of ah this is not needed to live. This is a painfree restful experience. When this body stops this continues.

Then the damn thing starts beating again and it is stupid and mistimed it ruins the silence just like some jerk driving a vehicle with the Boom, Boom, Boom Base that makes your windows rattle is unwelcome. Then just like the Booming idiot as they drive further away the heart gets its normal timing and slows to a normal then slower than normal beating to witness this howerver is to be brought out of one state of awareness to another and the feeling is that of dissapointment.

It is unwelcome and annoying because you realize it is also unneeded it is something extra. There is so much more to all of us than this noisy beating heart. The beating of the heart is a fetter to awareness trapped in animal form.

Ray you honor the spontaneous above all. I tell you this it is very good and this is just how the heart stops. I also am telling you that by practicing a time proven technique that it hastens the occurances of the spontaneous by making the field plowed and ready to recieve the seed and bare a good crop.

Furthermore I dislike the word enlightenment it is a priest word. It fails to describe anything and leaves the one considering it to imaginings that are wholly unreal and imaginative.

These experiences or rather the work that generates them do permenantly remove self ignorane, where you error is in the assumption it is an all or nothing thing. Think of it more like an ant moving one grain of material from cement one grain at a time and entry is granted. The ant can report the pile it has made of removed material. Then it can report entry. But unless others walk through the entry they may not eat the food on the other side, just be full of doubt and dscussion.

Experiences are like saw dust, saw dust is not important to the one wishing to cut a length of wood but they are a byproduct of effort made to cut the wood and can not be dismissed without a broom and dust pan.

Self inquiry is the broom and dust pan.

Doership is removed with the sawdust. But language is limited so we must talk of sawdust so others may understand what comes of doing then doing is done.

[ray_killeen]

Please understand I’m not saying Yoga, Tantra and Self inquire of Advaita Vedanta does not aid in self realization, after all this was the path for me, it’s just that I now realize I had nothing to do with it; the karmic action was a result of a desire that arose from a thought which appeared spontaneously from nowhere/everywhere, if one feels compelled to practice/seek by all means get out of the way and act on it, perhaps at some point it will occur we are seeking god through his own eyes. And yes I LOVE to talk about the indescribable Truth with anyone who will partake willingly, why would I not it’s a blissful notion to discuss, thoughts are exchanged influences happen.

[Seeking]

[QUOTE=ray_killeen;83468]Please understand I?m not saying Yoga, Tantra and Self inquire of Advaita Vedanta does not aid in self realization, after all this was the path for me, it?s just that I now realize I had nothing to do with it; the karmic action was a result of a desire that arose from a thought which appeared spontaneously from nowhere/everywhere, if one feels compelled to practice/seek by all means get out of the way and act on it, perhaps at some point it will occur we are seeking god through his own eyes. And yes I LOVE to talk about the indescribable Truth with anyone who will partake willingly, why would I not it?s a blissful notion to discuss, thoughts are exchanged influences happen.[/QUOTE]

Get out of the way let go of the reigns letting go exactly very important once technique is automatic get out of the way exactly then the spontaneous happens.

Seeking God through his own eyes awesome, so true.

Realize I had nothing to do with yes this is perfectly true. The more one participate the more one continues to understand this.

[umunhum]

[QUOTE=ray_killeen;83459] I envisioned your acquired skill might lend itself to the challenge suggested above…[/QUOTE]

Just a cursory glance at a nasal diagram and you can see that the passageways are set up to separate the incoming from the outgoing air. This is easily verified by a 10 second experiment. Pay attention to where the air is coming from when you exhale and where the air is going when you inhale. The exhales are coming from the upper chamber of the nose where the carbon dioxide accumulates and the inhales are going into the lower chambers of the nose. Of course the Divine designed us so that when the breath stops, carbon dioxide is removed from the body on its own.

[QUOTE=ray_killeen;83459]It?s my direct experience that mystical experiences such as Samadhi etc. do not permanently remove Self ignorance[/QUOTE]

I agree. I know that I’ve reached Kevala Kumbhaka but my ego is still very much present. The only difference now is I’m well aware of it and have a choice whether to engage it or not. There is far more space in my thoughts. That said if someone attacks me, I resort back to my old self as the fight or flight response takes hold. I believe self ignorance is not completely removed until Nirvikalpa Samadhi.

[QUOTE=ray_killeen;83459] or that Enlightenment is the result of comprehensive methodology, skillful technique or transmission from a guru, the spontaneous cannot be made to happen.[/QUOTE]

This is the gist of the book The Zen teachings of Huang Po. This is more in the lines of Jnana Yoga which I’m interested in and continue to study but am focused far more on Kriya Yoga. (I’ve read that the term Kriya refers to an exercise done in Kundalini Yoga, which is a subset of Hatha Yoga which is a subset of Raja Yoga)

[QUOTE=ray_killeen;83459]As far as beliefs; the Yogic Sciences were effective at brain washing, not to be confused with ?brainwashing?, rather deprograming, empting conceptual nonsense and removing beliefs, if remaining beliefs surface I?ll be sure to recognize the false as false allowing them to dissolve with the rest.[/QUOTE]

I agree. We never rid ourselves of our experiences, we rid ourselves of our emotional attachment to them. Everything we have ever experienced will still be stored away, but our emotional baggage that we placed on it (likes, dislikes) will be gone. We become the witness of what is happening to the body and become indifferent in our desires. Again, this world has nothing to offer us. It is the perfect playground to evolve our consciousness. That is what the purpose of this world is according to Dr Hawkins. And the Divine is at all times providing the environment of what you need for the maximum potential spiritual growth. The free will thing is your role.

[QUOTE=ray_killeen;83459]Following Samadhi Self inquiry seems a natural progression, a reorientation of the thought process around the idea of non-duality (Shankar, Ramanan, Nisargadatta lineage) until beliefs supporting Self ignorance collapse.[/QUOTE]

Once a certain level of spiritual growth is attained (at least for me), there is no turning back or leaving the path. I have actually entertained the thought that I could advance quicker if I was in prison. Then there would be less distractions and options. Of course I probably wouldn’t like the food or the rules and then would have to contend with physical safety issues but you get my drift. A cave would probably be more appropriate.

I have indeed had the heart stop. This is very nice when it happens. Yes very nice. What occurs is that there is enough something else keeping the body alive that the poor overworked heart can take a brief rest in my experience.
When this happens the wittness you observes, it is already observing something else then its attention is grabbed by the sudden stillness in the chest, it is like living in a noisy city for a while and when the noise stops you realize by it’s absence just how loud it was.
Before this occurs there is a great deal of energy moving between Anahata and Sahasarara there is bliss, there is absorbtion in the desire to merge to be with God who is without poor minds ability to put to words
Then the heart center feels energetic fullfilment it vibrates in harmoneous frequency with the divine and stops, just stops for a while and all is calmness like the deepest most restfull state one may imagine. One feels privliiged like they have just been excused from the burden of living yet still being permitted to exist here as others are not. The living free is the expression that comes to mind. One no longer has to pay the toll of the next heart beat to be here now.
This is freedom!
There is a feeling of such relief, a knowledge gained of ah this is not needed to live. This is a painfree restful experience. When this body stops this continues.

Wow! That is an amazing experience. I had a similar experience when my breath first stopped. I thought ?I don’t need to breathe to live?? This is impossible! I felt so much bliss so I wasn’t panicked at all. Thoughts like I’m a heathen how could this be happening to me did go through my mind. I now realize the Divine comes before religions and you don’t need them to have a relationship with the Divine. In fact because of all the nonsense, it is probably better not to follow one.

I have to thank you for reminding me to practice Talabya before entering Kechari. That seems to alleviate the shock I feel when I first go into it in the morning.

I have been studying many different images trying to figure out what role the tongue has in Kechari stage 4. I have come to the conclusion that the tongue must break through bone tissue, enter the speniod sinus cavity, break through more bone tissue and then be able to lick the pituitary gland. This is something that probably happens in a deep state of samadhi. In the above picture the Speniod sinus cavity is the two black chambers to the right of the pituitary gland. Down below it is in red and only one chamber.

I am going to do all that I can to give my body the ability to make this happen (stretch my tongue), but this is not something that I’m going to force. I believe the first stage of samadhi (for kriyabans) occurs when you shut off the nerves that are carrying the sensory perceptions that are right above the nasal passageways in the nasal pharynx. The entrance to the speniod sinus cavity is right behind these nerves. When I push on this tissue, it feels like the feeling you get when you are about to sneeze or when water gets up your nose. I am at the limits of the length of my tongue when I do this and so can just graze this tissue at this point.

Looking back up at the first image I posted, why does the carbon dioxide collect right where you break your bone to enter your brain? What affect is this carbon dioxide going to have on the pituitary gland? The inversion poses spill the Amrit. Does Carbon dioxide stimulate the production of Amrit?

Just so we’re clear on the ?tenth gate? here is the picture again. The other nine gates are your organ of elimination, organ of generation, mouth, nose, eyes, and ears. And I know that you would think that this would be part of the nose but I didn’t invent the term:

Look very closely at the nasal openings. There are two tunnels going into the nasal passageway. The lower ones are to the nose and are blocked by the skin flaps that I wrote about a few posts ago. The top ones lead to the “tenth gate”

I have been experimenting with many different techniques to stretch the tongue. So far this is the best exercise I’ve come up with:

You are sitting in Siddhasana with the tongue in Kechari stage 2 (sorry people it wont work before you achieve this)

Do 60 rounds of Breath of Fire to decarbonize the body. On the last exhale go into Maha Bandha to create a vacuum. Make sure your Jalahandra is completely locked out and go into Nasakagra Mudra (nose tip gazing ? this is very important, I know for a fact that it causes the Muladhara to send more prana up sushumna because every time I feel the need to breathe, a quick look at my nose tip alleviates it) While you’re in Maha Bandha do 20 Combo Moos (squeeze everything you got down below ? your anus, perineum, and vajroli mudra) at the same time perform AYP’s navi exercise (slightly lifting up your stomach tightening it just a little bit more). This stimulates the lower three chakras. When you are done with the 20 Combo Moos and Navis combined, bring your torso upright [B]without inhaling[/B] and go into Shambhavi Mudra. When you feel the need to breathe, repeat.

The body is obviously designed for the air to come from the nasal passage. So all the pressure is felt coming through the nose. Your tongue is pulled back and up immediately takes the shape as if preparing for Sitali Pranayama. This exercise alone will stretch the tongue pretty good but because of the pressurized environment you can reach out with your tongue and stretch it even more. Right after doing this exercise I can stick my tongue a little farther into the tenth gate.

I’ve been pondering what the tonsils are really for and wonder how it would affect my Kechari in these exercises if I still had them.

[Seeking]

I really hate to sound like a wet blanket but even if it is possible to break into the sphenoid chamber and then break the bones to the pituitary the most likely outcome will be nerve damage at the very least, dibilitating body malfunction to include pain that will make you wish you were dead but most likely just death.

If you have ever had a headache that comes from a sinous infection, pressure behind the eyes the burning with every breath pain of a sinous infection then congratulations you the reader know what and where the sphenoid sinouses are. By the way there are two not just one.

This whole business of kechari seems very physically oriented in the way you are describing it. Yes, yes I know it is the part that can be described using language that all can understand, but my question is this, let me see If I can phrase this right I do not want to sound like a troll here…

Do you feel energetic prompting to enter into kechari in the first place or is it an act of volition like reaching to pick up a cup?

[umunhum]

[QUOTE=Seeking;83479]I really hate to sound like a wet blanket but even if it is possible to break into the sphenoid chamber and then break the bones to the pituitary the most likely outcome will be nerve damage at the very least, dibilitating body malfunction to include pain that will make you wish you were dead but most likely just death.[/QUOTE]

I’m just reporting back what I read. The idea of busting into my brain with my tongue doesn’t sound like something I want to do on a Sunday picnic either. I am convinced that the nasal pharynx and the 'tenth gate” is what Jesus is referring to in his Sermon of The Mount when he says “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it” (Matthew 7:13 – 14).

Yogananda referred to practicing shutting down his senses as a child one by one. I believe he was pushing on the nerves right up the narrow passageway. You have to shut down the senses by pushing on these nerves to enter the first stage of samadhi. And behind this passageway is the sphenoid chamber. Again, I believe that as you practice this and your tongue gets longer and longer, more force is applied to this bone and in deep samadhi eventually it gives way. I posted Lahiri’s letter where he told his disciple to do this - here it is again:

“There is a sticking point above the holes in the nose and it will go beyond that - gradually. Don’t force it; if you do so you can injure yourself. It will do its work after higher Kriya.”

[QUOTE=Seeking;83479]If you have ever had a headache that comes from a sinous infection, pressure behind the eyes the burning with every breath pain of a sinous infection then congratulations you the reader know what and where the sphenoid sinouses are. By the way there are two not just one.[/QUOTE]

Before I learned to scuba dive, I was on a airplane flight that was descending to land and I felt an incredible amount of pain in my sinuses. It was so excruciating that I was actually thinking about telling the flight attendant to tell the pilot to go back up. I thought my sinuses were going to explode like out of the movie Alien. After getting certified to scuba dive, I avoid this because I know how to equalize. This makes me feel so sorry for the poor babies and small children who cry when you’re on a flight about to land. I know exactly what they are feeling.

That said I don’t think it will feel the same. I am aware that there are two chambers because one of the pictures I posted was a real X-ray and the other a drawing. The X-ray shows two chambers.

[QUOTE=Seeking;83479]This whole business of kechari seems very physically oriented in the way you are describing it. Yes, yes I know it is the part that can be described using language that all can understand, but my question is this, let me see If I can phrase this right I do not want to sound like a troll here…
Do you feel energetic prompting to enter into kechari in the first place or is it an act of volition like reaching to pick up a cup?[/QUOTE]

You’ve been with me from the beginning on this board and so you already know the answer to this. When I first started going into kechari, it was stage one but I sealed off the back of my throat. When I did the Sham-Kech-Moo (Satyananda’s Kriya 6), I felt my tongue being pulled up the pharynx and I freaked and immediately stopped, opened my mouth and eyes and said “what is happening to me?” Immediately I saw nothing but prana over the ocean, dazzling lights everywhere and then a stone archway with a large wooden door. This was the divine sending me the message, you’ve found the door, do you want to come in? (this part cannot be explained scientifically) .

I thought at the time that some divine force was pulling on my tongue (you call it an energetic prompting), that is why I was so adamant about advancing in kechari. Now I know that this was not the case. Somehow the exercises that I was doing was making both of those flaps that cover the nasal turbinate passageways open up closing off the nasal passageways. The link to the picture you posted that I reposted twice (the actual picture) is the only picture I have ever seen of these. This is why I was so excited about seeing it because I understood what happened to me now. Both of these holes were being covered up by the skin flaps. This was causing a vacuum when I did breathing exercise that pulled on my tongue because my kechari had advanced far enough so that it sealed off the back of my throat. In the picture, one of the passageways is sealed off by a flap and the other is half sealed.

Satyananda says that you don’t have to believe in the divine to experience the divine. Obviously after the experience, your view will change. I believe the exercises create physical responses in the body and the divine sends you messages to encourage you. The Pineal and Pituitary gland make a yellow and white liquid that when combined together make the Amrit or Ayahuasca. You can read about what happens to the body when somebody ingests Ayahuasca on the internet. They have an out of body experience. It separates the consciousness from the mind. The point of yoga is you can get this substance naturally and experience the divine by doing these exercises. You don’t need to ingest a drug you can get from licking your brain.

Yoga is a science. It is not a religion. The divine is like a wall in front of you. It doesn’t matter whether you believe the wall exists or not. If you walk into it, you will smash your face. It is the same with these exercises. When you get to the Amrit, you will go into a deep state of samadhi. Siddhanath says that samadhi instantly comes when you drink the nectar. We’re only getting a poor man’s ration of Amrit right now from kechari stage 2. We are just getting drops as it trickles down through bone and the G-Spot tissue. When you get to stage 4 you can drink from the cup.

If you drink the Ayahausca tea that the Shamans of the Amazon Rain Forest make, it doesn’t matter what your religious views are, you will experience your consciousness separating from your mind. Many people on the internet talk about their experiences with Ayahuasca (David Icke and Sting come to mind) If you participate in a ceremony you will get to experience the Divine for a few hours. (who knows if you are getting the right amount or concentration) If you learn to practice yoga, you will experience the Divine for the rest of your life. Here is Doug Stanhope (a comedian talking about his Ayahuasca experience (the name chemists call Ayahuasca is DMT)):

Here is a place that gives ceremonies where you drink the Ayahuasca tea:

http://templeofthewayoflight.org/temple-info/video-testimonials

When you die, the fountain of youth, holy grail whatever you want to call it tips over and dumps this liquid into your throat and your consciousness separates from the body. This happens whether you practice yoga or not. The whole point of yoga is doing this before you die, recognizing that you are not this body. Once you achieve kechari stage 4 you can get the Amrit anytime you want. Siddhanath and Sadhguru talk all the time about being higher than a kite and in both worlds at the same time – the spiritual world and the physical world. (Do a seach on youtube of their names to find videos of them) This is because they lick (drink from the cup) their pituitary gland all the time. I have deep reverence for Satyananda. Similar to your feelings about Lahiri. ( I also have deep reverence for Lahiri, it was repeated readings of 108 pieces of advice that first got me interested in kechari: http://www.sanskritclassics.com/advent.htm) I wish so much that I discovered this 10 years ago and met Satyananda. I would’ve flown anywhere in the world just to be near him. That said I can look at this tribute video and clearly see that Satyananda is partaking in the Amrit in quite a few of them. Lahiri is probably doing the same in the picture that is on my desktop (As Ennio Nimis wrote in his Kriya books - “it sure looks like it by looking at his chin”):

This is Yoga – union with the divine. The end goal on the physical plane is drinking the nectar and communing with the divine. Opening up your chakras and clearing your nadis allow you to do this.

Then the deep meditations begin as the body consciousness falls away and you start visiting other worlds.

Obviously there are many more details that I will figure out along the way but this is the big picture. This is how the Divine designed us.

P.S. I’m still freaking about your experience. It is all I thought about last night. Have you done it more than once? Do you know approximately how long your heart stopped? I’ve read that you need to learn how to die before you die and you learn that there is no death at all. And you did it! And you were conscious. When the body dies, Yogananda says it is just like going to sleep for a long time and then you take another incarnation. But when the Yogi dies, he is aware of everything. Thanks again for sharing that! I thought that that didn’t happen until the later stages of samadhi. My heart rate hasn’t gone down much at all and you would think it would. I think the subtle amount of Amrit that you ingested relaxed you enough to enable you to do this. Maybe I’ve wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time!

[Seeking]

to give the world this information. That last post was one of your best, it shows a keen intellect that has taken the time to self educate and experience. Bravo!

Shutting down the sense telephones for me is not a voluntary act, it is not like saying now listen up ears you are to shut off now and tongue you will stop tasting etc…

What happens is that I am so involved with the something else that follows bliss that it is the reality of where the witness is experiencing. Sense perception is another reality but the witness is not experencing through that or those. So for all intents and purposes they are shut off, it is more a redirecting of attention than anything else. Here now look behind you away from this screen, you were not aware of what is behind you while reading these words. It is like this but more drastic in contrast.

Yogananda is correct but this can be done even with out kechari. The key is raising ones energy levels to a high enough state via the mechanism of Kriya practice, feeling and becoming one with the energies being experienced dissolving into the experience letting go, when letting go is achieved the energy levels make a leap from a lower state to a higher just like a step up transformer or a flywheel with a magnet passing an armature induces electricity that makes a spark plug fire. Just to be sure this important point is not missed feeling dissolving letting go relaxing into the subtle corpse is crucial.

From this bliss occurs from this Samadhi states the mind dissolves the awareness is…

On Samadhi states they come when I least exepect them and the I that writes these words is only aware they have after the fact. A person deep asleep does not know it until they are waking up and the self diagnostic mind starts going through it’s boot cycle and reporting system satus. This same self diagnostic mind that is ever reporting is ofcoarse our old friend ego.

There appear to be many fine strata layers of Samadhi.

Heart stopping is only witnessed when one is lleaving Samadhi States and then you notice it after the fact. I suspect that whatever has been keeping the corpse animated without breath and beating of heart Yes the two go hand in hand. Has exhausted its charge in the meat corpse. Now added Prana must occur via air and heart beat because the corpse is still too primitive in it’s evolution, to A handle a greater Charge or B utalize the charge more effeciently or perhaps C a combination of both.

This heart stopping has happened more than once. It is a rather recently occuring event. Fear of death does not enter my mind I die daily in kriya practice and with every breath. What does concern me are those I leave behind and that which they must deal with.

Consider this we all are dying moment by moment and I will prove it.

Without sadhanna fueling the corpse the average Human corpse will die within 5 minutes of lack of air.

So when we breath in we are born, when we exhale we die, constantly we are reincarnating all day and all night, ones life is just a string of these inhalations and exhalations.

This is why Pranayama takes us to different levels of awareness oxginate the blood describe all the fine chemical reactions good decarbonize these are all outward manifestations. True pranayama is where the attention becomes at home in finer and finer reality as the witness, dissolves and becomes absorbed by the practice.

As such we can manipulate tha organism to a great degree by duplicating them but a corpse without the animating principal infused with oxygen will not live no matter how one alters the chemical composition of a corpse make the blood flow make the lungs breathe whatever one does to play with a corpse it is still a corpse and as such will never be alive.

So Hatha practices and Kriya exercising etc are all just playing with a corpse, kechari a corpse sticking its dead tongue in its equally dead skull. Kechari is activated on the subtle level this is where it’s value lies. Uniting sushumna into one piece. As the physical moves so follows the subtle corpse.

Kechari on the meat corpse level manipulating heretofore unfelt meat nerves and glands to get secretions that stimulate nerves is just a door to the subtle corpse once the subtle corpse has been entered by awareness fully there is no need beyond that of curiosity to keep checking out new doors to see what is behind them. Of course who needs a better reason than that, exploring ones existance wherever one finds onesel in whichever corpse makes perfectly good sense and is likely the whole reason behind exisance inthe first place.

All of this is just corpse play. From meat,to subtle,to mental etc… working the trail out ofthe woods.

But we have to start somewhere. The true I has become identified with the meat corpse, the subtle corpse, the mental corpse etc. I do not say body because body is special it is the combination of animating principle with corpse that make body. So to get my point across I say corpse because the two are one which is body but also seperate and seperatable.

So this is much worse than being lost in the woods as no one thinks they are the woods everyone knows when they are lost in a woods and will follow a bread crumb trail to get out. So it is here we have to retrace the steps.

I have not found it necessary to practice many ways of manipulating the meat corpse to get to the subtle corpse to get to the mental copse and beyond. Yes I am certain there are many many back doors that may be exploited in the nervous system to achieve the same things. But one does not need them all. Just a few wil do.

Kriya has just a few and they work very well.

Back to pranayama: One inhales and this is being born, one exhales and one dies. There is a natural pause between both. If one is paying attention this is the first experience of the self.

The self is always present behind both inhaling and exhailing but most clearly seen at first in the pauses between both.

When one abides in this self even during wakefull daily activity all the time inhailing, pausing, exhailing, pausing, inhailing, pausing then one has self realization. There are different levels of self realization though.

If one tries to do this on purpose it is not easy and at first sounds like gibberish. If one first comes to know oneself even a little bit from sadhana practice where the stillstate of breath occurs this then becomes ones natural way of percieving little by little.

I have always been able to influence the heart by just feeling the current that fuels it, make it skip etc… but only realized it by mistake then one time gave a doctor a bad time with an EKG just to be sure I was not fooling myself, this is even in waking sates. I purposly avoid this though, and leave that nerve signal alone.

How long the heart stops in sadhana is anyones guess, it does not feel like very long but the problem is that one only realizes it has stopped beating after the fact and that is only when one is coming from a higher level back to a lower from timelessness where the self diagnostic mind was not on line, to a place where it is so another question is how long was it before you realized it which is impossible to say.

When you realize it there is what seems a brief period of time where it is observable but even while observing the time sense is skewed as even this state is not the normal waking one.

So it seems to fall in the catagory of not being important how long the heart stops just so long as it restarts.

[umunhum]

Maybe you and Suhas are correct. Maybe I’m too caught up in the mechanical processes. I have always be interested in understanding and engaging in exercise my whole life. I enjoy feeling the effects on my body. I am taking these traits into my practice of yoga. And on that note here is a picture of the tonsils:

Notice first that they would remain in the throat passageway upon entering kechari. Because they are attached at the bottom, in a pressurized environment with the with air being drawn from above - vacuum coming from down below, I believe that they would hold the tongue’s seal of the mouth really tight. They would also change the airflow dynamics of the vacuum centering it directly on the “spine” of the tongue. As I wrote before, sometimes when I come out of Maha Bandha without inhaling, the pressure created from the vacuum would pull the tongue right out of kechari back into the mouth. I believe that the tonsils would prevent this from happening. I would like to converse with someone who still has their tonsils and has attained kechari stage 2.

This is another example of how ignorant the medical profession is. Oh no, you don’t need your tonsils. They’re not important. Well maybe if you want to commune with the Divine, but who wants to do that?

I believe we’re supposed to create pressure in our breathing passageways. This really helps stretch the tongue out. Some observations that I’ve made since I’ve started creating extreme pressure in my breathing passage is holding my breath during pranayama is far easier. I can do the same amount of cycles when doing Sayananda’s Kriya 10 and 11 when performing Shanmukhi Mudra (sealing off the ears, eyes, nose and mouth with the fingers – Lahiri calls this Yoni Mudra) effortlessly now. I can chant Om much longer than before. When I sing, I can obviously carry a note much longer.

When you raise your torso up coming out of Maha Bandha and don’t let any air in, the vacuum created causes the tissue in the breathing passage to become stretched extremely tight and you can really feel the pressure. And of course the concavity of the nasal passageway contracts. I have entertained the idea that the tonsils are made hold the tongue from the bottom and the ear flaps are suppose to hold the tongue at the roof of the pharynx creating an incredible stretch of the tongue. I don’t know if this is the case but I am sure that the top of the ears press against the bottom of your tongue to create a suction pulling the Amrit from the roof of the nasal pharynx. This is another reason why it is important to create pressure in your breathing passage. IMPORTANT This is obviously something you want to build upon slowly to allow the body time to acclimate.

If you look at this picture again, the tongue looks like it could almost make it to the pituitary gland:

Unfortunately it can’t go straight there because of the bone on top of the nasal pharnynx. It must first go through the holes in the white part (nasal turbinates) that hooks down. I studied many different nerve diagrams to try to understand how pushing on the area above the nasal holes could shut off the eyes, ears, and nose too and couldn’t come up with a plausible way that this could happen. I then studied this diagram again and noticed the bone we are suppose to push on extends out quiet a bit and pressing on it would squeeze the dark red area above the extended bone.

This makes a lot more sense because this is where the signals from the eyes would have to travel. The thought of bone fragments floating around in my nasal area does not sound appealing. I have scoured the net looking for information on kechari stage 4 and there just isn’t much out there. I did come up with this:

Khecari mudra itself begins when the transformed tongue curls back as in nabho mudra, but is now able to slide its way up behind the soft palate. At this point, it locates a juncture of bone on the underside of the skull. This is referred to as the “Gate of Brahma” in the Yogakundali Upanishad, and it is said that “even the Devas (Gods) are unable to open it.” In other texts it is referred to as the “tenth gate.” What now happens is that the elongated and strengthened tongue begins to apply extreme pressure to this juncture, and literally breaks it open. When this occurs, the tongue is then able to slide up into the cranial cavity and actually begin to apply direct pressure upon various parts of the brain. Upon completion of khecari mudra, there follows a process called “melana” or “maithuna” which is one of the most closely kept secrets of Yoga.

I have been asking for guidance in my meditations and today when I was practicing my sadhana during the salutation to the gurus phase, I first recite the Lord’s Prayer and came to “give us this day, our daily bread” and that thought stuck in my mind. Basically the thought, you have all the information that you need right now. You need to purify your nadis and have several more chakras to open.

And so along with stretching my tongue and practicing Nauli, I need to start focusing on becoming proficient at internal Nadi Shodhana. The practice of Nadi Shodhana purifies the nadis. At this point breathing is a burden and an unnecessary act but I’m going to start practicing this everyday. This will help acclimate my body to having my tongue continually entering into the nasal turbinates.

I have also noticed that I am still getting scabs on the underside of my tongue. I can’t help but think that as I stretch my tongue out the Uvala is still burning away tissue. I wonder if there is part of the tongue that holds it together (like all the white sinewy parts in the tongue pictured above) and this tissue is being burnt up so that the tongue can elongate getting thinner to enter the “narrow passageway.” These scabs have characteristics like they are 6 days old and about to fall off so they don’t concern me at all, just rouse my curiosity.

And on that note,

Namaste!