Media, Political Correctness and Religious Debate

Spirituality Religion
#81

[QUOTE=Yulaw;46901]It is obvious you did not read all the links I posted…. You are quick to judge quick to anger I see and really fond of labels…… I will always cherish the initial misconceptions I had about you[/QUOTE]

Well then, since you claim there is something of worth in the links you posted, I will read them when I have the time. But if I find any misinformation, misconceptions, bias, and so forth, I will simply skip the article in question and move on to the next.

Quick to anger? Perhaps, but not without reason. I get suspicious and critical of anyone whenever they post links to obvious anti-Hindu/Indian propaganda. And considering the fact that you love to frolic with your anti-Hindu/Indian friends who have Christianized biases and PC…Let’s just say my misgivings are always confirmed in this kind of situation.

#82

[QUOTE=Yulaw;46902]Ahhh but SD can see it and I am wondering if the two are not one[/QUOTE]

& even if they aren’t the same person, neither of them understands what was going on with Moabites, Midianites, Hivites, Israelites, Canaanites, Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, and Jebusites at the time. It’s really not so different than the warring kingdoms in India so long ago. Considering how they feel about other religions’ missionaries and proselytizing, I’m sure they’d be for something similar to Old Testament Justice & they could pretend that some blue guy gave them permission…

#83

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;46903]Yep Yulaw, I am everyone that supports Hinduism. After all it is unthinkable is it not that anybody else could support Hinduism other than me ;)[/QUOTE]

I think you have multiple accounts and have even conversed with yourself in the same thread switching identities.

Fascinating.

#84

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;46903]Yep Yulaw, I am everyone that supports Hinduism. After all it is unthinkable is it not that anybody else could support Hinduism other than me ;)[/QUOTE]

Well, no… Actually that has little to do with it actually, I actually find Hinduism fascinating myself and have absolutely nothing against it and have read quite a lot about it… and I’m not you…but it was a nice attempt there at redirection on your part.

#85

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;46911]Well then, since you claim there is something of worth in the links you posted, I will read them when I have the time. But if I find any misinformation, misconceptions, bias, and so forth, I will simply skip the article in question and move on to the next.

Quick to anger? Perhaps, but not without reason. I get suspicious and critical of anyone whenever they post links to obvious anti-Hindu/Indian propaganda. And considering the fact that you love to frolic with your anti-Hindu/Indian friends who have Christianized biases and PC…Let’s just say my misgivings are always confirmed in this kind of situation.[/QUOTE]

Read them… don’t read them… it is of little concern to me… I already know all I need to know about you.

Anti-indian/anti-hindu friends… do you know my friends? I thought you lived in the UK not America… maybe your in China… I have friends there too… hey if you know them have them give me a call and we can meet for tea… as to frolic…well I honestly do not think I have ever been one to frolic so you will have to frolic on yor own without me… all I can handle is the tea.

#86

[QUOTE=Indra Deva;46913]& even if they aren’t the same person, neither of them understands what was going on with Moabites, Midianites, Hivites, Israelites, Canaanites, Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, and Jebusites at the time. It’s really not so different than the warring kingdoms in India so long ago. Considering how they feel about other religions’ missionaries and proselytizing, I’m sure they’d be for something similar to Old Testament Justice & they could pretend that some blue guy gave them permission…[/QUOTE]

This made me laugh

Thank You

[QUOTE=The Scales;46940]
Fascinating.[/QUOTE]

Yes… yes it is…

#87

[QUOTE=Yulaw;46975]Read them… don’t read them… it is of little concern to me… I already know all I need to know about you.

Anti-indian/anti-hindu friends… do you know my friends? I thought you lived in the UK not America… maybe your in China… I have friends there too… hey if you know them have them give me a call and we can meet for tea… as to frolic…well I honestly do not think I have ever been one to frolic so you will have to frolic on yor own without me… all I can handle is the tea.[/QUOTE]

“Friends” was a reference to the PC and anti-Hindu/Indian people on the forum whom you support, and vice versa.

#88

Wild capitalism or neoliberalism is not the best system for yogi aspirants or people with sattvic spiritual aspirations, it has moreover totalitarian features behind the appearance of so-called freedom including the freedom to exploit the others. It is completly rajasic and egocentric. Besides the capital gain as described by Marx, the system is designed not only to appease and brainwash the masses with consumerism but also so that the employees align their emotional desire on the Master-desire, thus there is also a strong emotional servitude, i.e. servitude with a smile. The fine art of exploitation is to increase the productivity of employees by reducing the gap or angle between the employee-desire and the employer/master-desire. It is very pervert not only in the lifestyle but on the psyche of individuals and it has nothing to do with yogic ideals. How a job of a “fun” chief executive or a responsible of a “wow” department is compatible with a sane spiritual life. For the sake of money, power, productivism, we are also plundering our precious environment, how stupid it is. That being said, I live in France and I am also dependant from a capitalist system though being a civil servant working in education as a teacher. But France has a capitalist system and also a lot of social advantages since a few decades though it is not ideal.

Yet, I do not believe that a kind of spiritual communism is possible with humans as they are, too immature and not enough divine but why not with a more enlightened species in a distant future. For the time being we can first change ourselves deeply and strive for a more social and sattvic agenda.

Philippe

#89

[QUOTE=Philippe*;47000]Wild capitalism or neoliberalism is not the best system for yogi aspirants or people with sattvic spiritual aspirations, it has moreover totalitarian features behind the appearance of so-called freedom including the freedom to exploit the others. It is completly rajasic and egocentric. Besides the capital gain as described by Marx, the system is designed not only to appease and brainwash the masses with consumerism but also so that the employees align their emotional desire on the Master-desire, thus there is also a strong emotional servitude, i.e. servitude with a smile. The fine art of exploitation is to increase the productivity of employees by reducing the gap or angle between the employee-desire and the employer/master-desire. It is very pervert not only in the lifestyle but on the psyche of individuals and it has nothing to do with yogic ideals. How a job of a “fun” chief executive or a responsible of a “wow” department is compatible with a sane spiritual life. For the sake of money, power, productivism, we are also plundering our precious environment, how stupid it is. That being said, I live in France and I am also dependant from a capitalist system though being a civil servant working in education as a teacher. But France has a capitalist system and also a lot of social advantages since a few decades though it is not ideal.

Yet, I do not believe that a kind of spiritual communism is possible with humans as they are, too immature and not enough divine but why not with a more enlightened species in a distant future. For the time being we can first change ourselves deeply and strive for a more social and sattvic agenda.

Philippe[/QUOTE]

You make some good points but remember that we live in a desire world, it’s the nature of things. & I don’t know about you all, but I needed to chase enough external desires to finally discover that what I was desiring wasn’t external but internal. And I definitely know that no one would have been able to tell me different, I had to chase desire fulfillments long enough to figure it out for myself.
Plus, I think that all the rampant capitalism and problems that it’s causing is a sign, it’s indicative that some change is just over the horizon.
(& it’s not that everyone’s going to start worshiping Krishna or whatever some of the resident Hindutva devotees around here preach day in & day out…)

#90

[QUOTE=Indra Deva;47008]You make some good points but remember that we live in a desire world, it’s the nature of things. & I don’t know about you all, but I needed to chase enough external desires to finally discover that what I was desiring wasn’t external but internal. And I definitely know that no one would have been able to tell me different, I had to chase desire fulfillments long enough to figure it out for myself.
Plus, I think that all the rampant capitalism and problems that it’s causing is a sign, it’s indicative that some change is just over the horizon.
(& it’s not that everyone’s going to start worshiping Krishna or whatever some of the resident Hindutva devotees around here preach day in & day out…)[/QUOTE]

good one.

#91

(I posted this on another thread but I thought I’d share this list here, too)

for those of you who support unity over division, you should enjoy these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7bwqTY0fCw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akd7V-0JI6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcc5_R9415Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04gdsFt_zDY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOAlyl7u2dw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgeOzL1h6Lk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=217sRJ3QFEE

#92

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;46859]How else are we suppose to interpret historical descriptions of genocides in the OT? The rape of 32,000 young girls, the slaughter of 32,000 litltle children and their mothers. What wisdom are we to glean from this?

[B]Before Christ = OT
After Christ = NT[/B]

It shows humans can be dumb, but more so it shows that the religion of Christianity is dumb. I prefer to use a more formal term: it shows the religion of Christianity is falsified.

[B]This is your interpretation. Or what you’ve been told. If you looked at the scripture with insight you would see the underlying unity between religions. It is readily apparent with the proper eyes and mind and heart. But you are too busy with all this nonsense.

I’m sure its important to you. But have you really considered what it all means.

What will you gain? [/B]

Again, we Hindus never had genocides, witch trials, inquisitiins, crusades and slavery.

In our religion such things are considered demonic(asura culture) There is something obviously right about our religion.[/QUOTE]

There is something Obviously right about “your” religion. I’ll agree with you there. It is a great religion. It is a product of truth and culture and wisdom.

You are not being a good ambassador for your religion or people.

If I were you or indians in general I’d be pissed off if some yahoo christians came over and tried to convert towns and villages to christianity.

Most likely they (the missionaries) would be operating from a place of indiscrimination about the intricacies of their own religion and totally get the wrong ideas about the other guys.

This just goes to show you that Humans can be dumb. Regardless of whatever religion they follow.

You can have dumb hindus.
You can have dumb Christians.
You can have dumb atheists.

#93

[QUOTE=The Scales;47022]
You can have dumb hindus.
You can have dumb Christians.
You can have dumb atheists.
[/QUOTE]

But you have to admit, the dumb atheists are few and far between, am I right?
Am I right?
Am I right?

[B]Embrace Nastika Atheism!!![/B]

#94

[quote=Indra Deva;47008]You make some good points but remember that we live in a desire world, it’s the nature of things. & I don’t know about you all, but I needed to chase enough external desires to finally discover that what I was desiring wasn’t external but [B]internal[/B]. And I definitely know that no one would have been able to tell me different, I had to chase desire fulfillments long enough to figure it out for myself.
Plus, I think that all the rampant capitalism and problems that it’s causing is a sign, it’s indicative that some change is just over the horizon.
(& it’s not that everyone’s going to start worshiping Krishna or whatever some of the resident Hindutva devotees around here preach day in & day out…)[/quote]

I am not denying desire in itself nor propose otherworldly goals either. Yes in my case, it has been the same too. We live in a desire world, and also a world of determinisms, and that is why this system is vicious, it aims to be alienating. We desire to live, there is this life impulse that has been expressed in different philosophies (for instance the conatus with Spinoza). First we need to sustain our material biological existence and in our societies the power allowing that is manifested mainly by money. In order to get money, one gets a job, and the employer gets a capital gain and can even indulge in blackmailing attitude threatening the biological existence of the employee and his relatives. With consumerism, people like Ford have created a system to generate other desires for the masses, there has been a class of workers, the executives being employees but symbolically on the side of the Capital which is more gratifying socially, a large middle-class emerged. It has neutralized in a way the binary scheme. Then there is the neoliberalism which admits that a worker is more productive when he is happy to do his job than more or less forced (explained above).

By the way, this emotional servitude and exploitation can be done even without money and outside a typical liberal company. The capital gain is not just manifested by money, it can go further there is also a strong emotional capture. The master can be a film director, “it is my movie” when actually it is the results of the work of dozens of people, a scientist, “it is my discovery” when actually a dozen of more or less anonymous people have worked on it if not done most of the work by far.

So we can use our desires for better purposes instead of using our energy for the advent of a neoliberal brave new world, we can also chose more or less the kinds of determinisms on which we would like to be aligned with : more divine determinisms (for believers) instead of ignorant determinisms, this is highly subjective according to the person.

Solutions : many but the main one is changing our consciousness (with Yoga for instance), because outer problems are often the manifestation of inner ones. Realizing a collective project. We can change education paradigms as in this video from Sir Ken Robinson : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U aso… it is up to our creativity.

Philippe

#95

Sounds like you’ve been reading some Marx or Kropotkin, that’s good :smiley:

By the way, this emotional servitude and exploitation can be done even without money and outside a typical liberal company. The capital gain is not just manifested by money, it can go further there is also a strong emotional capture. The master can be a film director, “it is my movie” when actually it is the results of the work of dozens of people, a scientist, “it is my discovery” when actually a dozen of more or less anonymous people have worked on it if not done most of the work by far.

So we can use our desires for better purposes instead of using our energy for the advent of a neoliberal brave new world, we can also chose more or less the kinds of determinisms on which we would like to be aligned with : more divine determinisms (for believers) instead of ignorant determinisms, this is highly subjective according to the person.

Solutions : many but the main one is changing our consciousness (with Yoga for instance), because outer problems are often the manifestation of inner ones. Realizing a collective project. We can change education paradigms as in this video from Sir Ken Robinson : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U aso… it is up to our creativity.

Philippe

I think that this Robinson fellow makes an interesting YouTube vid but this isn’t quite a revolutionary concept. Here’s a short excerpt from my Teaching Credential notes:
"[B][I]… change the common Literacy in academia to value both rhetorical and logical, include both logical and rhetorical literature in the cannon earlier so that students can be exposed to it. Push peer-group learning for further exposure to various learned/acquired patterns of thought/argument.[/I][/B]"

Socratic teaching method and peer-group learning is already taking place in schools here, education professional are taking it upon themselves to make changes is what is commonly considered “necessary literacy.” De-power the dominant by affecting dominant language and dominant rhetorical patterns & level the playing field.

Unfortunately, most religions, even Yoga Ashrams, still work on hierarchical models…

#96

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;46996]“Friends” was a reference to the PC and anti-Hindu/Indian people on the forum whom you support, and vice versa.[/QUOTE]

I support PC and anti-Hindu/Indian people on the forum… you a funny guy

Well I do work in PC support but I don’t think you are talking computers here I think you may be talking Politically correct and I have to tell kiddo I am likely the least politically correct person you could know? I?m just playing nice on the forum

I am beginning to think that any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental

#97

[QUOTE=Yulaw;47056]
I am beginning to think that any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental[/QUOTE]

Please, if this forum had a Venn diagram it would look something like this

#98

[QUOTE=Indra Deva;47067]Please, if this forum had a Venn diagram it would look something like this

[/quote]

#99

[QUOTE=Yulaw;47056]I support PC and anti-Hindu/Indian people on the forum… you a funny guy

Well I do work in PC support but I don’t think you are talking computers here I think you may be talking Politically correct and I have to tell kiddo I am likely the least politically correct person you could know… I’m just [B]playing nice[/B] on the forum

I am beginning to think that any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental[/QUOTE]

Politically correct people often don’t say what is on their minds and hide behind the skirts of niceties…thus weakening the force of arguments and the act of making a point.

#100

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;47100]Politically correct people often don’t say what is on their minds and hide behind the skirts of niceties…thus weakening the force of arguments and the act of making a point.[/QUOTE]

You one funny guy and I don’t know what your problem is, but I’ll bet it’s hard to pronounce.