And my work is still not complete - just as there are various depths and intensities of meditation, similarly there are various depths and intensities of so called “enlightenment”, it is an ongoing process. It is not different than a thousand petaled lotus, which continues blossoming once the season has arrived.
Let’s leave it at that.
[QUOTE=b.shahvir;53327]I think Amir is not preaching, he’s just sharing his experiences… what’s wrong in that?[/QUOTE]
He’s full of dookey and it stinks.
Thats whats wrong.
[QUOTE=The Scales;53402]He’s full of dookey and it stinks.
Thats whats wrong.[/QUOTE]
Dear Scales,
Kindly clear the air…what is it abt him that gets ur goose? He has never mentioned he is enlightened or anything…then what’s all the fuss abt?
He has never mentioned he is enlightened or anything
Review the thread from start to finish he has constantly either indirectly or directly claimed he is awakened/enlightened and is at the level of all masters. Not only that he has claimed all other masters Patanjali, Yogananda, Muktananda, Ramakrishna were all lying, and he knows this because he is awakened and enlightened.
He constantly harps on about how direct experience is the only real knowledge, but he negates the direct experience of everybody else.
He claims to have gained all his knowledge from direct experience, yet is evident to everybody here that he is book-read.
In addition to that you have the irony of a so-called awakened person going around the internet advertising their awakened self 
This is why he has alienated a lot of people in this thread. The general consensus he is a pretentious. I would go one further and say he is a fraud.
By the way I think we have given this imposter too much time and effort than he deserves by replying to his thread. This thread would have died out otherwise, like his other ones.
No more responses from me.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;53412]By the way I think we have given this imposter too much time and effort than he deserves by replying to his thread. This thread would have died out otherwise, like his other ones.
No more responses from me.[/QUOTE]
Well OK… but don’t you think one of the positive traits of yoga is tolerance?..we could be mor accomodating! He is welcome to share his views
We should not be tolerant of frauds - because tolerance of fraud leads to fraudulence to perpepetuate. Ditto with other evils like violence, corruption, dishonesty etc
I am often surprised on this forum how quickly people jump in to defend vice. Even in Yoga vice is something to be rid of.
Well then let’s leave it to the forum moderator/s to decide…
People should feel safe enough to post their experiences and comment without others being the judge and jury. I have found the whole anti-Amir thing to be curious. His posts are quite interesting and informative.
This is not really a matter for moderation. He is not breaking any forum rules. Rather it is an ethical issue, which in the spiritual world is rather big. Frauds, claiming to me masters going around deceiving people. Such people should not be tolerated.
I have never had a problem with Amir’s right to record himself and give discourses, in fact from the very start when he was criticised for that, I endorsed him. What has not sat well with me about Amir though, is the fact that he is pretentious, condescending and makes grandiose claims. No matter what discussion you have with him, he speaks down to you and always reminds you that he is awakened/enlightened and all his knowledge is direct experience. When you are critical of some of his statements, he gives you parables in return, trying to pretend to talk like a highly esoteric master. It is obvious, for those who have eyes to see, from his video discourses as well how pretentious eveything is.
He would attract a lot less criticism if he stopped repeating in every single post that he is awakened and enlightened(and conversely, were not) and shoving the dogma of direct experience in our face, whilst denying the direct experience of others.
Like I said, I think we have given Amir way too much attention. I think we should expand this discussion into a wider discussion on the ethical issues of imposters in the spiritual world.
[QUOTE=b.shahvir;53407]Dear Scales,
Kindly clear the air…what is it abt him that gets ur goose? He has never mentioned he is enlightened or anything…then what’s all the fuss abt?[/QUOTE]
Surya said it all - pretty much. I have no disagreement with his words.
Surya,
“Not only that he has claimed all other masters Patanjali, Yogananda, Muktananda, Ramakrishna were all lying”
It is far better to give an accurate report rather than twisting things into your own language. I have never said anything about “all other masters”. And as far as “lying” is concerned, yes sometimes masters have used useful lies to assist their disciples towards their awakening. It is simply a fact. I have given several examples of this before, and I can mention many more if you like. What is important is not what is true or false, what is important is any skillful means which can assist another towards one’s transformation. If you have a certain mental attitude, then regardless of whether it has any roots in reality, it functions like a placebo.
"In addition to that you have the irony of a so-called awakened person going around the internet advertising their awakened self "
There is nothing ironic about it. If everything else can be advertised, why not awakening ? Unless the methods for the expansion of consciousness become more available to the average person, it is always going to be the case that very few ever come to their Buddhahood. The reason why this world is a mess is because not enough people have been investiging the necessary time, effort, attention and energy in coming to know themselves, through and through - man has been living in a deep sleep for centuries, focused upon everything else except himself. And at the pace which this humanity is going, extinction seems to be the only option. So every means should be used to bring the sciences of the expansion of consciousness to the awareness of the average person. Those who have remained silent about the matter have been doing a far greater disservice. A man like Gautama Buddha was speaking unceasingly for 40 years, constantly traveling to transmit the methods of awakening. To be awakened does not mean you must be a silent vegetable. Silence has very little to do with speaking or not speaking.
“Frauds, claiming to me masters going around deceiving people. Such people should not be tolerated”
Seeing your tendencies, I do not see that your desire to speak against me is out of compassion for others.
The fact is that you are simply intimidated. Rather than trying to trespass on others, you should allow others to function out of their own intelligence and come to their own conclusions. There are people who have appreciated what I have had to say, and have found it to be of assistance along their own path.
“He would attract a lot less criticism if he stopped repeating in every single post that he is awakened and enlightened”
It is, again, important to give accurate reports. I have not been saying in every post that I am awakened. I have rarely mentioned it. I have come to an awakening, but my work is not complete - and in fact I have made it very clear that there is nothing superior at all about being awake. It is your own egotism and attachment towards that idea which has been making it into a problem. It simply means one has come to a direct experience of the essential nature of mind, it does not mean one has become some otherworldly god or has become a superior being. And “enlightenment” is just the beginning, that is just scratching the surface of the mysteries of existence. Stop putting it high on a pedestal as though it were the ultimate.
“and shoving the dogma of direct experience in our face, whilst denying the direct experience of others.”
Everybody has a direct experience of something. The man gardening in the garden also has a certain direct experience of gardening. That is not what I have been speaking of. As far as coming to a direct perception of one’s true nature is concerned - either you know it or you don’t.
“When you are critical of some of his statements, he gives you parables in return, trying to pretend to talk like a highly esoteric master.”
The whole thread here is evidence that it is only rarely that I have spoken of parables. Most of the time, I am responding direct as I am now. Again, you should give accurate reports rather than twisting things according to your own desires. There is nothing “esoteric” about those parables either - they are straightforward and down to earth.
It is far better to give an accurate report rather than twisting things into your own language. I have never said anything about “all other masters”. And as far as “lying” is concerned, yes sometimes masters have used useful lies to assist their disciples towards their awakening. It is simply a fact. I have given several examples of this before, and I can mention many more if you like.
The examples you gave were your opinions. Pull the other If in the public you accuse somebody of lying, just because it is your opinion they are lying, you can get prosected for slander. Similarly, I am sure the SRF or self-realization fellowship would like to have a word with you for going around claiming Yogananda is lying about the majority of his autobiography.
Fortunately, you don’t matter. You’re just another dude with a room, webcam and a lot of time. Beyond your small world of hundred views on youtube, nobody is going to hear of you. Nobody would have heard of you here either, if you did not go around self-advertising.
A so-called spiritual master, never goes around claiming they are enlightened and awakened. In fact, the opposite happens, the disciples come to them. This is how Ramakrishna, Ramana Maharishi shot to fame.
I got nothing to be jealous about from you Amir. Your knowledge is less than mine, and even your experience seems less than mine(I have experienced siddhis, well beyond your level) There are countless people out there who I would become jealous of before I became jealous of you. You have zero credentials.
Surya,
“The examples you gave were your opinions.”
If you are really interested in whether they are my opinions or facts, then you should do some research on the matter.
“A so-called spiritual master, never goes around claiming they are enlightened and awakened.”
That is also not the case. Many masters have openly declared their awakening. Gautama Buddha himself has called himself the Tathagata - the one who has gone beyond. Not only that, but he says that amongst all of the teachers available in my time, I am an unequalled teacher amongst them. Looking at his words, it sounds very egoistic. Gautama Buddha was a self-declared enlightened master, belonging to no tradition. In fact - the first time he tried to teach - it was a great failure. After his enlightenment, he happened to be coming by a monk in the forest. He told the monk of what had happened to him, and the monk asked, “Who was your guru?”
Gautama said, “I have come to my awakening without the guidance of any master or guru”.
The monk replied, “It may be so”, and walked away.
Neither did Mahavira have any master or guru, and like Gautama who was a contemporary, he declared himself as enlightened. There was no problem with either of them, because both of them were enlightened. Gautama and Mahavira are not the only ones, there have been countless masters who have been so called self-declared. In fact, the first masters who had ever come here were self-declared, because there was nobody else before them to learn from, what they had discovered was an entirely new territory. So, to make it more accessible to others, they had to declare that they had discovered something.
There is no problem in declaring your own enlightenment if it is actually the case, but if you are declaring it without having done the work that is needed - then you are just deceiving both yourself and others.
“You have zero credentials.”
It has nothing to do with credentials - this is not a PHD acheivement. In fact it is more likely that the idea of gathering credentials is going to function like a hindrance. A master has no credentials whatsoever, because it does not mean being a master of something or a particular subject. It simply means one who has come to know oneself, through and through. That does not need some seal of approval, either from God, some organized religion, or some tradition. And there are Buddhas which have existed which not only have no credentials, but they had no recognized existence because they simply remained silent and decided not to teach, not even with a single disciple.
“Beyond your small world of hundred views on youtube, nobody is going to hear of you. Nobody would have heard of you here either, if you did not go around self-advertising.”
That is fine, it is not my interest to advertise myself too openly, but to transmit in a basic form what I have discovered. Perhaps, at a later time, I will decide to postpone my own expansion and teach on a larger scale. At present, besides giving classes on Saturdays and only allowing certain disciples visit me - I remain alone so that I can continue my work with minimal distractions. As I have said, my work is not yet complete, most of my time in the last six years has been spent in meditation. Even those discourses were recorded just as breaks between sittings. And when I respond on the forum, it is ordinarily when I am drinking tea after either asanas or pranayam before sitting meditation. It is precisely my intention to create a situation where I can be intensely involved in my own work, and still share something in the process.
“I got nothing to be jealous about from you Amir.”
I agree, but that is not what I sense behind your words.
Amir, like I said you have no credentials, so there is nothing for me to be jealous of from you. However, you already shown yourself to be delusional, so what the heck, you can add, “Surya Deva is jeaous of me” to your list, along with every other delusion you have betrayed in this thread.
I rate myself better than you. Many people have come to me, and said Surya you are ready to teach, you should start your own classes and seminars. This is what I have always to those who ask me this, “I am still the student, not the teacher. When I am ready to teach, then I will teach” I have said this for the last 5-6 years. Here is another thing that I get called a lot, “Surya, you are very spiritual” and I respond, “No, I am not, I am an intellectual, nothing special. I am preparing for spirituality” Of course, I do have credentials to show that I am an intellectual.
You lack a lot of good qualities that a genuine spiritual seeker should have, such as humility and self-honesty. You have admitted yourself you have a lot of work to do, and now you say you may pospone your expansion, to go out there teach. The tendency is clear in you want to teach. You really want to be that role. But you have gone about it in the wrong way completely. It is clear to me, that all you have done is reads loads of books, watch loads of discourses of gurus and masters online and imitated them. You are a wannabe, if I ever saw one, but I don’t see a future for you in guruship, not even as a fake guru. Outside of the half a dozen people you have invited to your home to teach, nobody else will ever hear of you.
A true spirititual seeker never leaves their path of expansion until they have got to the destination. You are “postponing it” because your want to play Mr guru/master. You think you have done enough, but it is clear to me, who ironically enough claimed you are most likely ahead of me in exerience earlier, seem to have more spiritual cultivation than you as I have experienced those siddhis, which you still have not
Credentials are needed for everything. Even karma is a credential and without it you won’t get things. A doctor does not become a doctor until they have passed medical school, all their exams and trials and got recommendations. Even in the spiritual traditions, one has to pass through a grading system going from acharya, swami, rishi, maharishi, this is their credentials which allows them to teach. Like the doctor, they go through exams and trials themselves.
You’ve got nothing on you. You’re just another self-proclaimed teacher, join the queue, your type is common as a dime a dozen in the spiritual world. Your type do not get anywhere, because you go through no tests, no exams, no third party grading. If anything that has been bought out from the discussion in this thread, is the the necessity for having a proper guru in your spiritual journey - or you end up like Amir.
Not sure what new-age history you read of Buddhism and Jainism, but Buddha and Mahavira did have a guru. Prior to Mahavira, in fact there were was long line of masters. Buddha himself had a couple in his 10 years of journey before he reached enlightenment.
Surya,
“but Buddha and Mahavira did have a guru”
Yes. Gautama had two teachers, and after seeking their guidance, he rejected both - seeing that the methods they transmitted were not capable of bringing him to his liberation. Mahavira also came to his enlightenment without being under the guidance of a master. But that is not the point, you have missed it completely. Ramana Maharishi, without even failing to come to his awakening through the help of a master, came to his awakenign at a very young age, without any guru. If you insist that a guru is necessary, then you have yet to understand the essential matter.
“You have admitted yourself you have a lot of work to do, and now you say you may pospone your expansion, to go out there teach.”
Yes. Just as there is enlightenment, there is also post-enlightenment training. After I have finished the first half of my post-enlightenment discipline, I will start teaching on a wider scale.
“It is clear to me, that all you have done is reads loads of books”
Yes I have read books, and reading books has never been a hindrance. But my knowledge and understanding is not dependent upon them - and when I speak it is out of my own insight which I have gathered, not just through meditation and the yogic sciences, but through life itself.
“Credentials are needed for everything.”
I cannot agree. If that is the case, then every swami and priest that you come across is enlightened. If you have enough clarity - you will be able to see that this is not the case. Out of millions upon millions, both with credentials and without credentials, it has always been rare that a human being comes to self-realization.
“Even in the spiritual traditions, one has to pass through a grading system going from acharya, swami, rishi, maharishi, this is their credentials which allows them to teach.”
That is fine, but I do not consider those grading systems to be essential in coming to the Way.
.“You’ve got nothing on you. You’re just another self-proclaimed teacher, join the queue, your type is common as a dime a dozen in the spiritual world.”
You are right. I have got nothing on me, no scriptures, no word of God, no certification from any tradition or religion, and I have come to you with nothing but myself.
“A true spirititual seeker never leaves their path of expansion until they have got to the destination.”
More borrowed knowledge. There is a scientific reason why every master who has taught was forced to postpone his expansion, it is not just a coincidence.
“There are countless people out there who I would become jealous of.”
Empty this.
Yes. Gautama had two teachers, and after seeking their guidance, he rejected both - seeing that the methods they transmitted were not capable of bringing him to his liberation.
Nope, he did not reject them. He tried their methods, got to where he needed to go, then moved on. This is generally how it goes in the spiritual journey of many seekers - they go from one teacher to the other.
Mahavira’s history is a dubious romantic representation. Nobody really knows for sure what the original Mahavira taught, as he left no discourses. The teachings of Jainism were reconstructed much later on by a Jain council.
Yes. Just as there is enlightenment, there is also post-enlightenment training. After I have finished the first half of my post-enlightenmeny
Haha,post-enlightenment. Wow, so you are not even satisfied with the title of enlightenment, now you want post enlightenment
Yes I have read books, and reading books has never been a hindrance. But my knowledge and understanding is not dependent upon them - and when I speak it is out of my own insight which I have gathered, not just through meditation and the yogic sciences, but through life itself.
Finally, you admit it. Of course your knowledge is dependendent upon them, without them you would’t have the knowledge. I read better books than you, so I got better knowledge. You overdid it on the parable crap(it must have taken ages to memorize them, but 6 years is a lot of time) I stuck to pure Vedic texts.
I cannot agree. If that is the case, then every swami and priest that you come across is enlightened. If you have enough clarity - you will be able to see that this is not the case. Out of millions upon millions, both with credentials and without credentials, it has always been rare that a human being comes to self-realization.
Of course you are not going to agree. Is the doctor whose proclaimed himself a doctor going to agree to having a check for credentials, third party tests and exams? This a bit like the self proclaimed geniuses, who will never give a professional IQ test because they are afraid of reality kicking them in the butt. Or the so-self proclaimed models, who will never attend a beauty contest, cus reality might kick them in the butt.
You don’t like credentials, because you want to maintain this bubble of yours where you are mr post enlightened guru, and obviously if you had a guru, he would have popped that one ages ago
Out of millions upon millions, both with credentials and without credentials, it has always been rare that a human being comes to self-realization.
And let me guess you are one of those rare millions upon millions rights? Heck, you’ve introduced a new category for everybody to ape: post-enlightenment :lol:
More borrowed knowledge. There is a scientific reason why every master who has taught was forced to postpone his expansion, it is not just a coincidence.
All your knowledge is borrowed. So is mine, but I am humble enough to admit it But wait a min what else do you need to attain in your spiritual quest, after post enlightenment? haha
One thing Amir, you have taught us all well, is that enlightened - ahem forgive my insolence master - post-enlightened masters post on internet forums
I have once again come to find you amusing.
By the way please give me the contact of the half dozen disciples you invite to your home, I have a hyperdimensional orgone generator to sell to them It comes with an activate your Kundalini in 7 days CD!
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;53465] I have a hyperdimensional orgone generator to sell to them It comes with an activate your Kundalini in 7 days CD![/QUOTE]
I’ve been looking for one of those. Where do I order? Do you take visa?