Meditation For Individual And Social Transformation

Mindfulness Meditation
#121

[QUOTE=Joanna63;52409]It’s actually pretty pretentious to tell one what they “need” to do to improve themselves.[/QUOTE]

You’ve come to the wrong place then… this place is full of people who dedicate their tiny lives to the practice of ‘wanting to be Mr right’. I find it interesting, because normally you’d think of yoga as something that would open up an individuals mind, but instead it just conditions and solidifies. There’s not to much ‘live and let live’ here… but more 'No your wrong, I’m right… you can’t be happy cause you aren’t living how I want you to"… it’s a shame that on a yoga forum, that it’s so hard to come by wisdom, humility, and UNION!!

#122

Surya,

The historicity of what has been spoken of is not my interest. The fact is that awakening is not something which is the possession of any tradition or belief system, it is none other than coming to know yourself, through and through. For that, if you have a mind and body - all that is needed tremendous effort, energy, and attention which is channeled in the right direction - and it is not that effort is needed to liberate oneself, but effort is needed to create a space which is prepared for transformation, it is not a sit and do nothing affair. Do nothing - and if one has been suffering, that suffering is bound to continue - the whole programming of man is determined to continue on its course as it has always been.

“Haha,post-enlightenment. Wow, so you are not even satisfied with the title of enlightenment, now you want post enlightenment”

I would not even be using these terms, either enlightenment or post-enlightenment, if it werent that we have to use the rags of the man and the scraps of scoundrels.

“You don’t like credentials, because you want to maintain this bubble of yours where you are mr post enlightened guru, and obviously if you had a guru, he would have popped that one ages ago.”

I do not have any particular liking or disliking towards credentials - in themselves they are simply irrelevant. Ones state of being is not determined by such things.

“have taught us all well, is that enlightened - ahem forgive my insolence master - post-enlightened masters post on internet forums.”

If ordinary human beings can post on internet forums, then there is no reason why an ordinary Buddha cannot do the same. And believe it or not, even Buddhas can become cold in the winter, hot in the summer, and sometimes mistake the rope for the snake.

“Heck, you’ve introduced a new category for everybody to ape: post-enlightenment.”

Tozans Five Ranks.

Even this fellow sometimes used to see ropes as snakes.

#123

Surya,

“By the way please give me the contact of the half dozen disciples you invite to your home, I have a hyperdimensional orgone generator to sell to them It comes with an activate your Kundalini in 7 days CD!.”

Hahahahahahaha no, that is not possible - they are all trapped in Thunder Bay at the Inn Lightning motel.

#124

If ordinary human beings can post on internet forums, then there is no reason why an ordinary Buddha cannot do the same. And believe it or not, even Buddhas can become cold in the winter, hot in the summer, and sometimes mistake the rope for the snake.

You’re an ordinary human being hence why you post on ordinary internet forums and discuss and debate things. Same with myself. The last thing an enlightened master is going to be doing is debating their enlightenment on some internet forum.

Your actions give you away.

The established masters actually once attaining to enlightenment went out in public, set up charity and service organizations, published books, set up ashrams and went on tours around the world giving lectures and discourses.

You are not convincing anybody here you are enlightened Amir. You really should give up trying. What you have convinced a lot of people of is that you are 1) a fraud or 2) delusional with a possible 3) Mentally unhealthy(The post-enlightenment comment really took the cake :lol:)

#125

Surya,

"You’re an ordinary human being "

There is nobody who is not an ordinary human being, and outside of ordinary human beings, there are no Buddhas.

“The established masters actually once attaining to enlightenment went out in public, set up charity and service organizations, published books, set up ashrams and went on tours around the world giving lectures and discourses.”

Not all so called “masters” are established.

“The last thing an enlightened master is going to be doing is debating their enlightenment on some internet forum.”

You assume far too much about something which has yet to enter into your experience.

“The last thing an enlightened master is going to be doing is debating their enlightenment on some internet forum.”

That is not what I have been doing. But it is certainly my intention to provoke.

"You are not convincing anybody here you are enlightened Amir. "

That is not even the least of my interests.

#126

You assume far too much about something which has yet to enter into your experience.

Amir, hate to break it to you, but you are going to be recognised as a fool on this forum.

Anyway why would an enlightened master start posting on an ordinary internet forum and have long down out debates on proving they are enlightened? and invent new titles for themselves like post-enlightenment?

You are too much of a try hard. Masters don’t need to try. It’s both amusing and disturbing watching you do what you do. Amusing, because you clearly are a fool, and disturbing, because you might be not quite right in the head.

#127

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;53444] Your knowledge is less than mine, and even your experience seems less than mine(I have experienced siddhis, well beyond your level) There are countless people out there who I would become jealous of before I became jealous of you. You have zero credentials.[/QUOTE]

Dear Surya,

Could you please share some of your experiences/siddhis with us on the open forum?

#128

Could you please share some of your experiences/siddhis with us on the open forum?

I already have in this thread. Nothing to boast too much about really, and the only reason I shared them was because of Amir rejecting Patanjali’s siddhis, because he himself has not experienced them - and heck he’s post-enlightenment :smiley:

Look at #76, page 3

#129

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;52918]I tested the siddhi myself when it took place to see whether it was really happening or whether it was my imagination. I noted I could zoom my vision in and out of the objects I was seeing. I zoomed out and I could see it normal, I zoomed in a bit more, and it magnified by perhaps factor of 10. I zoomed in and it magnified by a factor of 100. The crispness and sharpness was acute. I could see every detail. I zoomed in more and I was able to see into the molecules.[/QUOTE]

what object were you zooming into? how did the molecules look like? just asking out of curiosity

#130

It is very hard to describe to be honest. My first object was a drum. The first thing that happened was I got a very clear and crisp image of the drum skin. I noticed, my perception was different because I had this ablity to zoom. On the first zoom, the drum skin became amplified and I could see very minute details on it. The second zoom, I had gone past the first perceivable level, and could see very fine strand like structures. These are not at all perceivable ordinarily, no matter how close you look.

There is a reputable and secular scholar, Fritjof Capra(Tao of physics) who has seen a lot more than I have. He has seen atoms and the flow of cosmic radiation.

I don’t get too surprised by things like this though, because I know it is all possible thanks to my Jnana. What I want is to get to a stage where I can willfully apply any siddhi I wish. When I will be able to do that, it means I have reached a very high level.

#131

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;53552]What I want is to get to a stage where I can willfully apply any siddhi I wish. When I will be able to do that, it means I have reached a very high level.[/QUOTE]

But don’t you think you spiritual progress might be hampered in pursuit of worldly siddhis?

#132

No, this is a common misconception in the spiritual world and it is usually spread by those who claim to be enlightened, but have no siddhis i.e., false gurus. Siddhis are part and parcel of spiritual progress. They are awakened automatically, depending on how far your spiritual progress has gone.

To be able to willfully apply any siddhi you wish means you have command over samyama. This means you have masterd four prelimary stages: pratyahara, dharana, dhyana and sabija samadhi. This is a very advanced stage of the spriitual progress. Very few people know what it is like to experience real pratyahara. I have only experienced it twice in my life.

So my first step once I embark on Raja Yoga will be to master achieiving pratyahara. So I can enter pratyahara at will. This is the journey half walked, if you can do that. As entering into dharana, dhyana and samadhi after that is relatively easy. Pratyahara is difficult because the senses refuse to shut off normally, it is their habit to constantly project outwards and pick up everything that is taking place. Even when we create the conditions for Pratyahara with a stable posture, dark room, closed eyes, still the senses refuse to shut off. To shut them off requires pranayama, which in itself is a big attainment. When you can control your prana, then shutting the senses off is just as easy as withdrawing the prana from them and moving it into your mind. This is why Hatha Yoga is an important prelimary, where one learns how to move the energy around the body.

When one starts to develop control of prana, then pratyahara is not far off.

#133

Yes.

It is true.

In terms of Spiritual Level. Surya is above this amir.

Now Do not let this go puffing up your head the scales knows where you are too Mr. S.D.

#134

Surya,

“Anyway why would an enlightened master start posting on an ordinary internet forum and have long down out debates on proving they are enlightened?”

I am not trying to “prove” whether I am enlightened or not enlightened, but it is my intention to provoke. Unless you come to a recognition of your own ignorance, there is no possibility of moving beyond. You have assumed far too many things which have yet to enter into the realm of your own direct experience, clinging to your own beliefs and philosophies rather which have been functioning like a veil over one’s eyes. Your intentions are not sincere. And rather than doubting your own being, your own understanding, being an empty and open vessel with a spirit of inquiry, you are far more interested in a thousand and one superficial things which have not managed to bring any contentment to your being.

“and invent new titles for themselves like post-enlightenment?”

More ignorance. It is not something that I have invented. As has been said before, just as there are various depths and intensities of meditation, there are various depths and intensities of so called “enlightenment”. And to have a glimpse into your own true nature is one thing, and to integrate one’s awakening from moment to moment in daily living is something else entirely. After the moment of “enlightenment”, that does not mean that the work is compelete. One may stop there, being contented with this realization, but that does not mean that there are not more mysteries to be discovered. One can mature one’s realization and come to various levels of integration. Most of the work of integration has to do with how one integrates the “relative” with the “absolute” at the level of one’s experience, how to integrate the thousand and one shapes and forms and the source of existence, the activity of the mind and the essential nature of the mind. Either one can be absorbed into the relative world at the expense of the Absolute, or one may become absorbed in the Absolute at the expense of the relative, or one may bring both into balance together, or one may try and mature one’s absorption in both and bring them together into equilibrium - there are various possibilities. One master, Tozan, has written a work - the Five Ranks, which described Four states of post-satori, the first being the foundation for the other four. And it was this work and the experience of various masters before him, which master Hakuin had used as the basis for his post-satori system of training. So it is not some new thing that I have invented, it is as ancient as one can conceive. In the terminology of the yogic sciences, it would have to do with integration of various qualities of Sahaja Samadhi.

#135

Surya,

"It’s both amusing and disturbing watching you do what you do. Amusing, because you clearly are a fool, and disturbing, because you might be not quite right in the head. "

That is fine, but being as unconscious and asleep as you are, I do not consider your perceptions to be of any value.

#136

Wow mr post enlightenment is now using insults openly

My work is now done :wink:

#137

Unless you come to a recognition of your own ignorance, there is no possibility of moving beyond.

You should practice what you preach :wink:

#138

Surya,

They are not insults, I do not see being unconscious as some kind of unfortunate or inferior state of being.

#139

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;53585]You should practice what you preach ;)[/QUOTE]

:stuck_out_tongue:

Touche.

I feel sorry for this guy and anyone who has the fortune of falling in his well.

#140

Surya,

I would not be speaking otherwise.