What MUST one do to feel the presence of God?
Dear Neil,
Absolutely nothing, because you are Divine/God. The Divine is always omnipresent and omnipotent in all things. It is the mind that wants you to belief that you and the Divine are separate. Realize the One-ness and the necessity to “feel” God will be replaced by knowing that All is God. 
Work to evolve, push aside all that does not serve that evolution, and let go.
According to Aurobindo: aspiration, rejection, and surrender.
One must desire it with one’s whole heart, and one’s all power.
[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;13905]Work to evolve, push aside all that does not serve that evolution, and let go.
According to Aurobindo: aspiration, rejection, and surrender.[/QUOTE]
sometimes letting go is letting go of perceived knowledge? some people experience God, then write about it, we then read it and perceive God to be the interpretation of what we have read So in this system of yoga, what do we really know and what do we think we know?
Jesus said to the lady who touched his coatail, “go thy way thy faith hath made thee whole” well what if you dont have faith? Jesus said “ask and it shall be given, seek and yee shall find” so if faith makes one whole and faith will be given when asked, maybe it is good if we just go with that? I understand to each their own, this is just from my eyes.
blessings to myself and my brothers and sisters
brother neil
[QUOTE=justwannabe;13899]What MUST one do to feel the presence of God?[/QUOTE]Staying in God’s grace will help, but we don’t always feel God presence. He is always there but you may not know it sometimes.
Neil, I think with whatever we go with that keeps us open and sensitive for receiving, is good.
Expression blind faith means that there is no room for receiving, so it doesn’t serve its purpose.
I did not meet anyone yet who’d state that he/she has seen God face to face … what is probably because of my shortcomings.
Heck, I did not meet anyone yet who met an archangel. 
i’ll tell you the truth,
don’t need to believe in god or simething to make some yoga per day :x
[QUOTE=justwannabe;13899]What MUST one do to feel the presence of God?[/QUOTE]
Option 1: Karma Yoga
Option 2: By understanding what is God.
When someone mentions God we think about some super being who’s there in the sky somewhere or sitting on moon maintaining ledgers of our Karma or sins & will accordingly send us to heaven or hell after our death or someone like Bruce Almighty who can draw the moon closer to earth, this is not the Ishvar (God) of Yoga Sutras.
“Samadhi Sidhir Ishvar Pranidhanat”
“God in it?s Godly feature is situated within both the heart of the dog and that of a human. The perfect yogi knows that God is eternally transcendental and is not materially affected by it?s presence in either a dog or a human. That is the supreme neutrality of God. The individual soul is also situated in the individual heart, but it is not present in all hearts. That is the distinction between the individual soul and the Super soul (God). One who is not factually in the practice of Yoga cannot see so clearly. A yogi can see God in the heart of both the dog and a human.”
I am light
I am love
I am peace
I am kindness
I am happiness
I am here
I am body
I am mind
I am soul
Who am I ?
I am God
Understanding God is impossible. We only can understand what God is not.
Having a relation, an expereince of God, is possible only through the Self, or as christians call Him, The Christ. That’s why Jesus said, noone goes to the Father but through me. If the christian terms bother you, use Self, or Jivatman, and Brahman for God.
I can’t say I can imagine these things correctly, but I needed to mention this. Honesty. Satya. Sometimes it is a brutal thing to do, but that’s what truth is, a double edged sword.
PatR, your God is very vulnerable, don’t you think ?
Let’s see. You will age. You can become ill. You will die at a certain point in time, as do I. Can you say for sure that the consciousness what made those statements, I am love, I am light, I am peace, aso, can you say that consciousness will stand the test of death ? Honestly, now. Not theorethically. But really, you, the person, PatR, can you make that statement 100 % sure: I am God, I am immortal ?
Does it stand the test of sleep ? I mean, doesn’t your consciousenss get dimmed every day at night while you are sleeping ? What happens than to the love, light, peace, and all those things you say you are ? What happens to God, while you are dreamlessly sleeping ? I am really curious … perhaps your consciousness really goes on, and you are a very advanced yogi. But if not, than you are just self suggesting these things. These things are learnt, accepted, you came upon them by intuition, or they resonate in your heart … yet, they are just your or other people’s creation, thoughts in your mind. Very noble, elevating thoughts with good vibes, that of light, love, peace, aso. But still, thoughts. Inspiring, helpful thoughts, but still, thoughts.
We don’t even need to go to sleep. Lets say your have a terrible toothache. Is your God consciousness clear than ? Someone threatens your life on a side alley, with a knife: is your God consciousness clear ? If it is, than it might be real. If it isn’t than it’s self suggestion.
There are various levels of consciousness, awareness. First, clear consciousness will continue during sleep, than later, it even continues after death, before birth. And even than, it’s not yet God.
I am not saying you are not God … because you are bearer of the Cosmic Consciousness, The Self, Christ. That’s why Jesus says, what you did to the less of your kind, you did it to me. You really are destined as I hope I am too, to a great destiny, and godliness … but we need to realize it. Really know it, for sure, first hand expereince. And this is what we do by yoga, or any spiritual discipline. We eliminate the things we are not … detach ourselves from, put them aside, realize what they are, transcend them. Eliminating the passing, the human, the worldly, the limited, and growing, opening to recieve the eternal.
[QUOTE=Hubert;15145]Understanding God is impossible. We only can understand what God is not.
Having a relation, an expereince of God, is possible only through the Self, or as christians call Him, The Christ. That’s why Jesus said, noone goes to the Father but through me. If the christian terms bother you, use Self, or Jivatman, and Brahman for God.
I can’t say I can imagine these things correctly, but I needed to mention this. Honesty. Satya. Sometimes it is a brutal thing to do, but that’s what truth is, a double edged sword.
PatR, your God is very vulnerable, don’t you think ?
Let’s see. You will age. You can become ill. You will die at a certain point in time, as do I. Can you say for sure that the consciousness what made those statements, I am love, I am light, I am peace, aso, can you say that consciousness will stand the test of death ? Honestly, now. Not theorethically. But really, you, the person, PatR, can you make that statement 100 % sure: I am God, I am immortal ?
Does it stand the test of sleep ? I mean, doesn’t your consciousenss get dimmed every day at night while you are sleeping ? What happens than to the love, light, peace, and all those things you say you are ? What happens to God, while you are dreamlessly sleeping ? I am really curious … perhaps your consciousness really goes on, and you are a very advanced yogi. But if not, than you are just self suggesting these things. These things are learnt, accepted, you came upon them by intuition, or they resonate in your heart … yet, they are just your or other people’s creation, thoughts in your mind. Very noble, elevating thoughts with good vibes, that of light, love, peace, aso. But still, thoughts. Inspiring, helpful thoughts, but still, thoughts.
We don’t even need to go to sleep. Lets say your have a terrible toothache. Is your God consciousness clear than ? Someone threatens your life on a side alley, with a knife: is your God consciousness clear ? If it is, than it might be real. If it isn’t than it’s self suggestion.
There are various levels of consciousness, awareness. First, clear consciousness will continue during sleep, than later, it even continues after death, before birth. And even than, it’s not yet God.
I am not saying you are not God … because you are bearer of the Cosmic Consciousness, The Self, Christ. That’s why Jesus says, what you did to the less of your kind, you did it to me. You really are destined as I hope I am too, to a great destiny, and godliness … but we need to realize it. Really know it, for sure, first hand expereince. And this is what we do by yoga, or any spiritual discipline. We eliminate the things we are not … detach ourselves from, put them aside, realize what they are, transcend them. Eliminating the passing, the human, the worldly, the limited, and growing, opening to recieve the eternal.[/QUOTE]
You mean till we don’t experience it we shouldn’t even talk about it ?
I just wanted to express that we don’t have to go anywhere to find God, with self effort or sadhana we our self can be God.
Merry Christmas
As long as I think I am the body I’ll age, I’ll become ill & the i’ll die.
As long as I think I am body I’ll need to eat, sleep.
As long as the body is alive it has ego so “I” as a body cannot proclaim “I am God”
But am I a body ? NO coz “Tat Tvam asi” will start bothering me & I can’t consider myself a body.
So now what I am ? a soul ? NO coz once again “Tat Tvam asi” will start bothering me & I can’t consider myself a soul.
Every level of consciousness has it’s limitations & this is what prompts us to ask who am I ? even as Jivatman or Christ, don’t you think this question who am I will start bothering me ?
Can we remain at any level of consciousness constantly ?
No we can’t, so what am I ??? I can safely assume that I can’t be more than God.
justwannabe, finding God is as easy or as difficult as you make it. There are those who believe themselves divine and those who believe in God, Allah, and so many other names.
For me, to see God all I need to do is look at the beauty and perfection of a leaf and marvel at its intricate function. Or if you would rather, look at the miracle of your body. So many tiny pieces that together work to do so many miraculous things. How about the miracle of one single cell meeting another and eventually producing an entire person? There is so much that is divine in every moment of every day all you need to do is look and really see.
I can get as close as possible to God by going to Holy Communion. In this way I am receiving Him immediately within me. This great sacrament he gave us all when he broke bread at the last supper.
An organ taken out of a body is alive just like the body, what keeps this organ alive ? probabably the cells that make it up, a cell is said to carry out life on its own, so does that mean a cell has a individual soul or that organ has an individual soul ? the answer is no, coz every individual soul comes with the package of karma, sins, heaven, hell etc. That would simply increase the burden for God. So what is keeping the cell or that organ alive ? Miracles ? I don’t believe in miracles. It is the very same thing that is keeping us alive & that is keeping that organ or that cell alive as well & it is nothing but our individual ego (ahamkara) & not the individual soul (jivataman or miracles). The cell is alive so it is conscious but it doesn’t have the required consciousness level to realise the ego that is keeping it alive, but we humans can. It is our ego that makes us think I am kindness, I am love, I am peace, I am body, I am here, I am mind, I am soul.
The thought of Saguna Brahman has vanished from my mind coz I have no reasons to believe that I have a soul that is keeping me alive. It is just my ego that tells me what I think I am. If Saguna Brahman doesn’t exist for me than where does that leave me ? But pretty soon i’ll get hungry & i’ll do the dualistic activity of eating or i’ll get tired & i’ll do the dualistic activity of sleeping with that i have slipped to the grossest level of consciousness , annamaya kosha, so obviously I can’t say I’m God. It is only in the nirvikalpa samadhi that i can make such claims, but still I have problems believing in a jivataman or an individual soul or the saguna brahman.
I think the only logical option left for me is Karma Yoga.
[QUOTE=Hubert;13959]One must desire it with one’s whole heart, and one’s all power.[/QUOTE]
That remind me of Socrates. A disciple came to Socrates and asked to teach him the truth.
Socrates took the disciple to the river, and kept his head in the water, to the point of drowning. Then he released the head of the disciple.
Socrates asked him “what did you want more when your head was under water ?” The disciple replied " to take the head my head from under the water to be able to breathe."
Socrates then said: “when you want to find the truth so much as you wanted to take your head from under the water, then you will find a way to
find the truth.”
No, I say, until we have that experience, to say, I am God, is really not true. And because truthfulness, satya is a basic element of our discipline as yogis, we should refrain from making that statement. I realize I might sound argumentative, or splitting a hair in half, yet, I mean it well. It is ok for me, to see you as a spiritual being, a child of God, having the same essence with God (even without knowing what God is), but it is not ok, to see myself such. When we think high of ourselves, than pride, and the feeling of being someone follows, and with that, suffering knocks on our door. And I am afraid of suffering. I hate it, to be true.
Isn’t love the marvel of the other being ? When we love, we lose ourselves, and we are totally absorbed into our beloved. I can’t see God as me, because than I cannot love Him with the same strenght. I need to give myself to something I am not. When I give myself fully, that surrender, that is the highest love I am capable of. So I am not God … but whatever is best in me, whatever I am made of, whatever I am, I give it to Him. And if I give myself fully, than, perhaps I become part of Him. God is not in my heart … rather, I am in the heart of God. (Khalil Gibran)
"Before the soul can stand in the presence of the masters, its feet must be [B]washed in the blood of the heart[/B].”
This blood of the heart is the bleeding you feel when you long for your Beloved. Surely you have felt this at certain moments in your life, that you’d give everything, even your life for your beloved. But usualy, we mistake the sign, what usually is a human being, to the real aim, what is our wholeness.
Here is an old post I wrote years ago on the subject of serving God / gods. It is from my agnostic leaning towards atheism point t of view. It is too long to post here, so will send in the first part of it.
When I left Catholicism I surveyed the God arena for what higher powers there really were, after deciding Yahweh was man made. If you bother to read the rest of my post you will see that two Gods come into play with our lives.
Every atheist serves two Gods. And in reality, these Gods require worship from all humans whether they be atheists or theists. The ‘God of Inner Peace’ is the first God. Without serving this God of Inner Peace man will turn to self destruction and suicide. The other God is that of the ‘God of Nature’ which makes itself evident with it natural laws or commandments. No matter how defiant the atheist or theist is…we will ALL bow to the God of Nature sooner or later.
Speaking of nature, it is also good to keep in touch with the lesser cousin of the God of Nature which is seeking peace with our own nature through right actions. Yes, learning to accept the nature of all things is an important part of the equation for living a life at peace, but there is a missing link that needs to be added to this equation. The missing link is marrying authenticity with rightness.
The formula for success is: Authentic Nature + Right Actions = Peace
The formula for failure is: Authentic Nature + Wrong Actions = Destruction
There are many ‘natures’ in our life to be mindful of - we have our own nature, the nature other persons we have contact with, as well as the ‘nature’ of nature itself. But, just becoming a ‘blissninny’ and blindly accepting the various natures will not give us peace. To apply this tool rightly, we need to adopt a life of proportionality, balance and wisdom. How do we learn to live a more balanced life? By using rational thought patterns and by putting reason before passion. Then we can view our actions as balanced or not, for without rational thought we have nothing to weigh in our quest for balance.
Knowing what is true and developing wisdom to be at peace are two very important qualities for the confused spiritual practitioner to develop. With respect to myself, I try to balance wisdom with that of peace perception. For whether something is a truth or not, it still has to pass the peace test. There are many things that are true and good in life, but they will still end up destroying my peace if I let them. Usually the dividing line for such ‘good today ~ bad tomorrow’ questions are rooted in the area of balance and proportionality.
If you don’t know what I am talking about, then I will give you this example. we need water to drink and air to breath in order to live. But, even though water and air are life sustaining, too much water and too much air will become life destroying…proportionality and balance divides life from death. I always ask if a person, place, thing or activity promotes my peace or destroys my peace? When I practice compassion for others as my Buddhist practice recommends, I ask this same question of peace promotion or peace destruction of others. I look deeply to see what is destroying the other persons peace the best I am able to. There are 3 main components to rational thinking.
1 - Rationality requires reflection.
Many of us are too busy to reflect. Other times our minds our consumed with troubles and out of control passions. Over thinking also plays a part in keeping our minds working in the wrong direction. An old Buddhist saying tells us that a constantly busy mind cannot heal itself. Reflection time must be ‘open thinking’ time where we look at both ends of the spectrum and everything in between for answers and choices and not just the comfortable ones we are accustomed to. We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking that we used when we created them. Psychologist William James once said, “A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.”
2- Rationality is the ability to anticipate consequences.
Reflection pays big part in this as well as past experiences and the process of extrapolation from past experiences and others mistakes. Weighing and balancing are two key words that come into play. Sometimes ‘gambling’ is more a component to those that ‘shoot from the hip’ and worry about consequences later. Many of us get stuck in a place of justifying our actions with blindness to the consequences. Our actions are ego based and not truth or rational based. “First one decides the goal, then one gathers the principles or delusions to justify reaching this goal.” Principles or delusions? This depends on whether the mind is being used for rational thought or if out of control passions are in command.
3 - Rationality requires adherence to certain standards.
There are many standards to consider and each individual has to judge these for themselves. Another name for a standard is a rule. Many people are defiant against ‘rules’ and they are entitled to not follow the rules as they please. But such freedom has a price to pay, so they should not balk at paying the price for their freedom with the necessary consequences that come from not following the rules. Standards are different for each area of excellence that we seek to attain. The standards for excellence in rock climbing are different from those of a scuba diver. Professional standards of an engineer will be different from societal standards of being a good parent. But one thing is certain. If we are defiant and balk against these standards we will probably be headed for failure or even death in certain activities. (Failure? This cannot be said in 100% of the cases, for without such experimentation and digression inventors would not produce much. But in generally acceptable terms, standards usually have to be followed. If you balk at following standards then go back to component 1 and do some reflection as to why?)
Now just turning to Buddhism is not all it takes if your goal is to live a flourishing human life. Yes, Buddhism contain many truths, but it also contains many non truths as well.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=9.0
But isn’t that how man made religion is? It all comes from imperfect man so imperfect man can never make anything as complex as religious thought perfect?
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=318.0
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=133.0
Yet, we as humans must still serve the God of Peace or we will self-destruct , so we must give it our ‘best efforts’ irrespective of how imperfect those efforts are. A simple tool to smooth out the everyday fluctuations in our life is: forget perfection and look for direction. We can either be going up, down or sideways with our goals. Use this direction tool to get a quick gauge of your inner spiritual condition.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=4.0
Accepting a persons nature must always be balanced with rational thought as I said above. We can accept another’s natures as an abuser and be at peace that they have this nature, but we do not have to stay in close proximity of them ourselves. The missing link so to speak with the blissninny that accepts everything blindly is they are neglecting to align ones authentic nature with that of finding inner peace…