[QUOTE=Surya Deva;55540]There is nothing the West can teach us. [/QUOTE]
cricket??? 
Anyone who does not like where he/she is are free, in western civilization, to move to that place they feel is better. Not sure if that is always possible in some of those ‘other’ places. Otherwise, all they do is fling diarrhea into my cornflakes.
[QUOTE=vata07;55549]cricket??? :p[/QUOTE]
No match for chess, which we invented.
We also invented Ludo and snakes and ladders.
India has given us many wonderful things…
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;55368]There is no such thing as Western air. Air doesn’t belong to anybody.[/QUOTE]
SD…I do hope you realise this was my sense of humour…
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;55530]By the way Neitzsche do not fall for the myth that the West contributed science and maths. Science and maths is an ongoing development for the last 10,000 years, and even in modern times science and maths has not been the exclusive province of the West. Western science has long maintained a materialistic, deterministic, linear and separatist universe, and we dharmic people have long maintained an idealistic, uncertain and interconnected and cyclic universe. So who is behind? The West.
What we have known for thousands of years is only now coming to be known by the West. They are catching up to us, not vis versa. We still trump them in every department.[/QUOTE]
Yeah thanks, I already know that. I have been studying the history of mathematics for several years now.
All civilizations have done their part in developing mathematics and sciences. However, the Western world does deserve near-full credibility for scientific advances made after the 17-18th century. You cannot deny that by this time, most other civilizations in the world had fallen into irreversible decline, doomed to be easy prey to the West.
This does not mean that the West is superior in any way. Unlike many of the revisionist-history idiots on this forum who are unwilling to accord Yoga to Hinduism, I have no problem praising Newton, Einstein, and etc for their contributions It simply means that fate played right into the hands of the West at the right time and place. In the future, their spot will be overthrown and the cycle will continue. Might as well go with the flow.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;55540]There is nothing Western culture can offer to a superior dharmic culture. In every department we trump Western culture:
History: We have a 10,000 year old history of domination of this planet. The West are new kids on the block, with a history of only 500 years. We are the elders of this planet.
Language: We have Sanskrit, the worlds most advanced and scientific language.
Music: We have the worlds most complex and refined music system
Drama: We also have the worlds most refined and nuanced dance and theatre
Health and management: We have the worlds most oldest and sought after health and management systems: Yoga and Ayurveda
Philosophy: We have the world oldest and most complex and diverse philosophical system
Literature: We have the worlds oldest and longest literature: Vedas, Mahabharata, Ramayana
Astronomy: We have the worlds oldest astronomical science and also the most advanced astrological system
Science: We are ahead in the sciences having gone beyond the physical and mapped out the energy and mental systems of the body
Engineering: We have the most precise systems of architecture(vaastu)
Poetry: We have the most advanced systems of poetry
Cuisine: We have the most rich cooking in the world
There is nothing the West can teach us. Rather, the West is constantly learning from us. What possibly can the West teach us that we don’t do better already?[/QUOTE]
Music. How so?
Cuisine. Uhm, no.
Poetry. Perhaps.
Engineering. No.
Science. No.
Astronomy. Shall we ignore the Egyptians and Babylonians?
Music? Indian music is microtonal, this means it has more tones than Western music:
Ravi Shankar refers to the Sanskrit saying Ranjayathi iti Ragah, which establishes, that a raga, in order to color the mind of the listener, should be created “not only through the notes and the embellishments, but also by the presentation of the specific emotion or mood characteristic of each raga.” In this way, melodies of Indian classical music allow accomplished musicians to express and experience “every human emotion, every subtle feeling in man and nature”.
In addition to expressing a particular mood, each raga is also associated with a particular time of day or a season of the year. Each time of the day - before dawn, noon, late afternoon, early evening, late night - is associated with a definite emotion. The cycle of day and night as well as the cycle of the seasons are supposed to be analogous to the cycle of life.
Ragas are based on 72 melas or parent scales. With all their permutations and combinations, one estimates that there are over 6,000 ragas. In addition to the ascending - descending structure (Arohana - Avarohana), a raga has a specific chalan - or characteristic note pattern. This pattern is defined by its principle important note (vadi), its second most important note (samavadi), its main feature known as jan (life) or mukhda (face), and the cluster of a few notes by which a raga is immediately recognizable.
It takes a student many years of sadhana or dedicated practice and discipline under the guidance of a guru to be able to put the breath of life (prana) into a raga. Among the secrets of a vibrant and incandescent performance a teacher imparts to his pupil is the use of shrutis (microtones; Indian music uses smaller intervals than Western music: 22 microtones within an octave), gamakas (sort of glissandi) and andolan (a sway, but not a vibrato).
The talas or rhythmic cycles of a raga are another essential element of Indian classical music. Talas range from cycles of 3 beats to cycles of up to 108 beats. The most popular talas use cycles of 5 to 16 beats. The most important rhythmic factors are the stress on the first beat (sum) and the division in a tala. Talas with the same number of beats my differ from each other in that they use other divisions and accents. For instance, the tala Dhamar has 14 beats, divided into 5+5+4 beats, whereas the tala Chanchar is divided into 3+4+3+4 beats. The most common North Indian cycle, teental, consists of 16 beats in four groups of four beats.
Therefore Indian music is the most complex and refined.
Cuisine. Uhm, no.
Indian cuisine is very closely tied in with Ayurveda. The use of herbs like tumeric, ginger, cumin has ensured that Indians remain healthy and resistant to many diseases. A tradtional Indian dish balances all the nutrients once needs and includes all 6 tastes in Ayurveda. The rich use of spices makes Indian cuisine the richest and most refined. This is also why it is world famous.
Poetry. Perhaps.
We have the longest epics in the world, the Mahabharata and the Ramayana, written in poetic metre. The Chandashastra describes metres going up to 30 syllables and very complex systems of poetry where Sanskrit is organized mathematically to form complex metaphors. This is impossible to achieive in any other language.
Engineering
The engineering prowess of Indians is evident in the Indus valley civilisation where entire cities were planned precisely to a grid pattern(as traditional vaastu prescribes) and all the houses connected to a plumbing system. The more subtle feature about vaastu is that it faciliate the flow of subtle energies. The ancient Indians understood there were subtle forces flowing which could be harmful or beneficial.
Science. No.
Atoms, long since known in Hindu science, were not accepted in Western science until the 19th century with Darlton. Even then his atomic theory was wrong as he imagined them as solid and hard units. In contrast in Hindu science, atoms were seen as points of energy with no magnitude, but which when combined formed visible atoms. These atoms were thought to contain immense energy which could be released by breaking its nuclear bonds(samyoga) Then science finally realised that there is no solid atoms, everything was a vibration of a quantum field that permeated all of space, discovering what the Hindus had long known as akasha which they had mapped out extensively with the chakras, nadis.
Where is Western science today? It has only just realised that consciousness is the highest truth of reality and without consciousness there is no reality. Another thing Hindus have known for ages. So is Western science behind? Yes.
It is behind in every way.
Astronomy. Shall we ignore the Egyptians and Babylonians?
Yes, they are exaggerated. Vedic astronomy is far more advanced than Egyptian and Babylonian astronomy. For example the Western/Babylonian system does not give you the actual position of the stars during your birth, it gives you inaccurate figures. This is because it does not account for the precision of the equinox, the earth natural tilt on its axis. Vedic astronomy accounts for it and calculated various constants that were not known till modern times. The values calculated using Vedic astronomy do not differ even by a minutes from modern tables. The cyclic model of the universe expanding and contracting constantly is only starting to get accepted in modern astronomy, the Hindus have known about it for ages. They even calculated the age of the earth and the age of the universe.
We Hindus are well ahead in all areas. There is nothing we can learn from Western civilisation. They are learning from us. Do not be afraid to assert it. This is a clash of civilisations, no comprimises should be made to show how superior our civilisation is.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;55603]Music? Indian music is microtonal, this means it has more tones than Western music:
Ravi Shankar refers to the Sanskrit saying Ranjayathi iti Ragah, which establishes, that a raga, in order to color the mind of the listener, should be created “not only through the notes and the embellishments, but also by the presentation of the specific emotion or mood characteristic of each raga.” In this way, melodies of Indian classical music allow accomplished musicians to express and experience “every human emotion, every subtle feeling in man and nature”.
In addition to expressing a particular mood, each raga is also associated with a particular time of day or a season of the year. Each time of the day - before dawn, noon, late afternoon, early evening, late night - is associated with a definite emotion. The cycle of day and night as well as the cycle of the seasons are supposed to be analogous to the cycle of life.
Ragas are based on 72 melas or parent scales. With all their permutations and combinations, one estimates that there are over 6,000 ragas. In addition to the ascending - descending structure (Arohana - Avarohana), a raga has a specific chalan - or characteristic note pattern. This pattern is defined by its principle important note (vadi), its second most important note (samavadi), its main feature known as jan (life) or mukhda (face), and the cluster of a few notes by which a raga is immediately recognizable.
It takes a student many years of sadhana or dedicated practice and discipline under the guidance of a guru to be able to put the breath of life (prana) into a raga. Among the secrets of a vibrant and incandescent performance a teacher imparts to his pupil is the use of shrutis (microtones; Indian music uses smaller intervals than Western music: 22 microtones within an octave), gamakas (sort of glissandi) and andolan (a sway, but not a vibrato).
The talas or rhythmic cycles of a raga are another essential element of Indian classical music. Talas range from cycles of 3 beats to cycles of up to 108 beats. The most popular talas use cycles of 5 to 16 beats. The most important rhythmic factors are the stress on the first beat (sum) and the division in a tala. Talas with the same number of beats my differ from each other in that they use other divisions and accents. For instance, the tala Dhamar has 14 beats, divided into 5+5+4 beats, whereas the tala Chanchar is divided into 3+4+3+4 beats. The most common North Indian cycle, teental, consists of 16 beats in four groups of four beats.
Therefore Indian music is the most complex and refined.
Indian cuisine is very closely tied in with Ayurveda. The use of herbs like tumeric, ginger, cumin has ensured that Indians remain healthy and resistant to many diseases. A tradtional Indian dish balances all the nutrients once needs and includes all 6 tastes in Ayurveda. The rich use of spices makes Indian cuisine the richest and most refined. This is also why it is world famous.
We have the longest epics in the world, the Mahabharata and the Ramayana, written in poetic metre. The Chandashastra describes metres going up to 30 syllables and very complex systems of poetry where Sanskrit is organized mathematically to form complex metaphors. This is impossible to achieive in any other language.
The engineering prowess of Indians is evident in the Indus valley civilisation where entire cities were planned precisely to a grid pattern(as traditional vaastu prescribes) and all the houses connected to a plumbing system. The more subtle feature about vaastu is that it faciliate the flow of subtle energies. The ancient Indians understood there were subtle forces flowing which could be harmful or beneficial.
Atoms, long since known in Hindu science, were not accepted in Western science until the 19th century with Darlton. Even then his atomic theory was wrong as he imagined them as solid and hard units. In contrast in Hindu science, atoms were seen as points of energy with no magnitude, but which when combined formed visible atoms. These atoms were thought to contain immense energy which could be released by breaking its nuclear bonds(samyoga) Then science finally realised that there is no solid atoms, everything was a vibration of a quantum field that permeated all of space, discovering what the Hindus had long known as akasha which they had mapped out extensively with the chakras, nadis.
Where is Western science today? It has only just realised that consciousness is the highest truth of reality and without consciousness there is no reality. Another thing Hindus have known for ages. So is Western science behind? Yes.
It is behind in every way.
Yes, they are exaggerated. Vedic astronomy is far more advanced than Egyptian and Babylonian astronomy. For example the Western/Babylonian system does not give you the actual position of the stars during your birth, it gives you inaccurate figures. This is because it does not account for the precision of the equinox, the earth natural tilt on its axis. Vedic astronomy accounts for it and calculated various constants that were not known till modern times. The values calculated using Vedic astronomy do not differ even by a minutes from modern tables. The cyclic model of the universe expanding and contracting constantly is only starting to get accepted in modern astronomy, the Hindus have known about it for ages. They even calculated the age of the earth and the age of the universe.
We Hindus are well ahead in all areas. There is nothing we can learn from Western civilisation. They are learning from us. Do not be afraid to assert it. This is a clash of civilisations, no comprimises should be made to show how superior our civilisation is.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for the information. I will cross reference it later.
Regardless, there is plenty we can learn from the West in terms of mathematics and science. Advances in Calculus, Chemistry, and Physics are the main areas the rest of the world can now learn about from the West.
These are not “Western” systems, by the way. Mathematics and Science are universal and almost every civilization has had a hand in developing these fields. What you think of as “Western” advancements would have happened regardless of whether Europe was out of the equation. Therefore, I have no problem accepting Western advances simply because that is the cycle of things; civilization A flourishes, contributes, and collapses. The West is no exception.
God gets the credit–not people or cultures. Nobody has the right to boast since there is nothing they could do without God, upon whom their existence depends.
The most “superior” civilization is the one in which there is the greatest love of God and neighbor. The rest is meaningless without that. (Though such a civilization would not dare to call itself “superior,” as those who have great love have great humility).
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;55603]Music? Indian music is microtonal, this means it has more tones than Western music:
Ravi Shankar refers to the Sanskrit saying Ranjayathi iti Ragah, which establishes, that a raga, in order to color the mind of the listener, should be created “not only through the notes and the embellishments, but also by the presentation of the specific emotion or mood characteristic of each raga.” In this way, melodies of Indian classical music allow accomplished musicians to express and experience “every human emotion, every subtle feeling in man and nature”.
In addition to expressing a particular mood, each raga is also associated with a particular time of day or a season of the year. Each time of the day - before dawn, noon, late afternoon, early evening, late night - is associated with a definite emotion. The cycle of day and night as well as the cycle of the seasons are supposed to be analogous to the cycle of life.
Ragas are based on 72 melas or parent scales. With all their permutations and combinations, one estimates that there are over 6,000 ragas. In addition to the ascending - descending structure (Arohana - Avarohana), a raga has a specific chalan - or characteristic note pattern. This pattern is defined by its principle important note (vadi), its second most important note (samavadi), its main feature known as jan (life) or mukhda (face), and the cluster of a few notes by which a raga is immediately recognizable.
It takes a student many years of sadhana or dedicated practice and discipline under the guidance of a guru to be able to put the breath of life (prana) into a raga. Among the secrets of a vibrant and incandescent performance a teacher imparts to his pupil is the use of shrutis (microtones; Indian music uses smaller intervals than Western music: 22 microtones within an octave), gamakas (sort of glissandi) and andolan (a sway, but not a vibrato).
The talas or rhythmic cycles of a raga are another essential element of Indian classical music. Talas range from cycles of 3 beats to cycles of up to 108 beats. The most popular talas use cycles of 5 to 16 beats. The most important rhythmic factors are the stress on the first beat (sum) and the division in a tala. Talas with the same number of beats my differ from each other in that they use other divisions and accents. For instance, the tala Dhamar has 14 beats, divided into 5+5+4 beats, whereas the tala Chanchar is divided into 3+4+3+4 beats. The most common North Indian cycle, teental, consists of 16 beats in four groups of four beats.
Therefore Indian music is the most complex and refined.
Indian cuisine is very closely tied in with Ayurveda. The use of herbs like tumeric, ginger, cumin has ensured that Indians remain healthy and resistant to many diseases. A tradtional Indian dish balances all the nutrients once needs and includes all 6 tastes in Ayurveda. The rich use of spices makes Indian cuisine the richest and most refined. This is also why it is world famous.
We have the longest epics in the world, the Mahabharata and the Ramayana, written in poetic metre. The Chandashastra describes metres going up to 30 syllables and very complex systems of poetry where Sanskrit is organized mathematically to form complex metaphors. This is impossible to achieive in any other language.
The engineering prowess of Indians is evident in the Indus valley civilisation where entire cities were planned precisely to a grid pattern(as traditional vaastu prescribes) and all the houses connected to a plumbing system. The more subtle feature about vaastu is that it faciliate the flow of subtle energies. The ancient Indians understood there were subtle forces flowing which could be harmful or beneficial.
Atoms, long since known in Hindu science, were not accepted in Western science until the 19th century with Darlton. Even then his atomic theory was wrong as he imagined them as solid and hard units. In contrast in Hindu science, atoms were seen as points of energy with no magnitude, but which when combined formed visible atoms. These atoms were thought to contain immense energy which could be released by breaking its nuclear bonds(samyoga) Then science finally realised that there is no solid atoms, everything was a vibration of a quantum field that permeated all of space, discovering what the Hindus had long known as akasha which they had mapped out extensively with the chakras, nadis.
Where is Western science today? It has only just realised that consciousness is the highest truth of reality and without consciousness there is no reality. Another thing Hindus have known for ages. So is Western science behind? Yes.
It is behind in every way.
Yes, they are exaggerated. Vedic astronomy is far more advanced than Egyptian and Babylonian astronomy. For example the Western/Babylonian system does not give you the actual position of the stars during your birth, it gives you inaccurate figures. This is because it does not account for the precision of the equinox, the earth natural tilt on its axis. Vedic astronomy accounts for it and calculated various constants that were not known till modern times. The values calculated using Vedic astronomy do not differ even by a minutes from modern tables. The cyclic model of the universe expanding and contracting constantly is only starting to get accepted in modern astronomy, the Hindus have known about it for ages. They even calculated the age of the earth and the age of the universe.
We Hindus are well ahead in all areas. There is nothing we can learn from Western civilisation. They are learning from us. Do not be afraid to assert it. This is a clash of civilisations, no comprimises should be made to show how superior our civilisation is.[/QUOTE]
The Egyptians knew about precession SD…did the Hindus know this too then?
I heard on a western documentary that it was the Egyptians that noted precession.something we have only noted a few hundred years ago…
Music, yes its more complex in India and China…but music can be as complex as you want to make it…there are no restrictions but a matter of cultural taste…My father loved reggae and black music in general…
Poetry…is a matter of personal taste…again, it will differ according to the culture but the West has had its fair share of genius …Virgil, Homer,Yeats, Shakespeare, Byron, Shelley,the Brontes to name a few…my father, a Sikh enjoyed poetry and was impressed by many western poets SD…
It’s just too silly to suggest you have nothing to learn from anywhere but your own country…
The west has its fair share of genius in all subject areas just as the east does…SD, I cant believe you truly mean this…this is narrow-mindedness!
just to add…
British cuisine sucks…that is true…it’s often bland in taste or predictable…the French are better at it…things have improved in English restaurants but basically British cuisine is naff…
Aspirin, didn’t we discover this…no doubt in India there is an equivalence…and that is the magic word…equivalence…thats what you will find across the world
Indians are generally great engineers and Mathematics… Mathematics is taught in a superior way in India and it has always been an irritation for me that the West does not adopt the Eastern way of dealing with numbers…so you see…one day, I hope they will…but if I thought like you, I would not bother even noticing this or encouraging it…
[QUOTE=Nietzsche;55484]The only reason you made that joke is because you are an idiot who can’t tell apart fact from sensationalism.[/QUOTE]
It’s so safe and easy to call people idiots on forums. I guarantee if this was a face to face conversation you wouldn’t call me an idiot. If you did you’d be on the floor in 15 seconds and you wouldn’t be getting back up. Go for it. Call me an idiot over the internet. It’s safe and easy and I know that’s right up your alley.
These duderonis sure can drive
Cripes…now then…okay SD, maybe India could learn more about traffic control and driving, from Britain!!
Again, do not call it Western science and mathematics. Science or mathematics is not the province of the West. Do you know who invented wireless communications? Bose. Do you know who invented the essential mathematics used in string theory? Ramunjana.
But there is nowhere Hindu science needs to improve, because like I said modern science is behind. In medicine, modern science is now moving towards a regulation system of the body which when out of balance produces disease. That is Ayurveda.(Were ahead) In computer science, modern science is trying to produce an artificial language that can be spoken by humans as well. That is Sanskrit(Were ahead) In cosmology they are now talking of cycles of expansion and contraction of the universe. That is the yugas(Were ahead) In psychology they are trying to map out the entire internal world. That is Yoga and Vedanta(were ahead)
And when it comes to mathematics modern science still does not have anything comparable to say the sri yantra, mandalas(Were ahead) You need to learn to recognise your own gems. I sure have. If Hindu’s were not far ahead of modern science, modern scientists would not keep looking back at it.
The modern world is catching up to the Hindus and not vis versa. I am not at all impressed with their computers, calculus, electronics. They are still on the physical layer - they have no idea about prana, how to channel prana and how to engineer prana within. This is a more advanced science.
You also need to maintain this attitude, because you are faced with a clash of civilisations. It is their civilisation vs our superior civilisation. You undermine how superior we are to them by going gaga over their inferior science. If this was true, they would not be looking at our sciences.
Virgil, Homer,Yeats, Shakespeare, Byron, Shelley,the Brontes
They are nothing compared to Valmiki, Vyassa, Kalidasa. Simply no comparison.
The west has its fair share of genius in all subject areas just as the east does…SD, I cant believe you truly mean this…this is narrow-mindedness!
By Western standards maybe. Not by superior dharmic standards. We know our civilisation is superior, because one single person from our civilisation is worth the entire history of the subject in your civilisation, and still they are not comparable. Name me one Western grammarian at the same level as Panini. You would have to mention an army of them and you still would not equal panini.
Name me one physicist at the same level as Kannada? Again you would have to mention an army of them.
Ditto for Kapila, Patanjali, Pingala, Sushruta, Charaka. The great Risis of our civilisation are worth the entire history of any subject you have undertaken. Just be humble and accept we are your elders. You are new kids on the block, you got a long way to go before you reach our levels.
[QUOTE=kareng;55629]Cripes…now then…okay SD, maybe India could learn more about traffic control and driving, from Britain!![/QUOTE]
That is not India, that is the British reconstruction of India. In ancient India we were highly ordererd and civilised and our entire cities were planned and built on a grid pattern with spacious roads and streets and each home was connected to a central sanitation system. The British destroyed all of this and reconstructed India as a developing country. Inevitably, when India becomes redeveloped, this situation will improve. In more affluent areas of India, there are no such problems.
You have a simplistic and historically ignorant perception of India. India was not always like this. This is the result of 200years of mismanagement and misrule by the British.
and how is any of this fact and not just your opinion???