Persecution of Hindus and ending it

Ending Hindu persecution

We now have covered the following topics:

Muslim persecution of Hindus, past and present
Christian and Western persecution of Hindus, past and present
The central role Hindu civilisation had in history and its massive wealth, amounting to 32.9% of the global gdp from 1AD to 10AD. Prior to 1AD, it commanded similar power and also had the most ancient and most advanded civilisation.
The mastery Hindu civilisation had achieived in the sciences

Most Hindus do not know any of this, because they are not taught this. They are taught a distorted account which depicts them as an ahistorical, superstitious, irrational, non progressive people. It is no wonder then that they develop an inferiority complex about their own culture and heritage. It also no wonder that Hinduism rather than being seen as something positive, is perceived in the world as something negative, synonymous with caste system, wife burning, cows. Hindus still are the the subjects of extreme prejudice, missionary activity and terrorism by Muslims. So we now must talk solutions, how can this end. I will offer the following possible solutions.

  1. Revolution: Enough is enough. If Muslims and Christians do not listen in India and the anti Hindu Indian Congress government continues to remain anti-Hindu, then a revolution will take place. This is already evident in the rising Hindutva movement in India, the rising attacks on Muslims and Christians. Such extreme and desperate actions have to be taken when no other options remain. But this can only be a possible solution when absolutely every peaceful alternative is exhausted. The drawback of this method it will lead to a modern day Mahabharata and lead to massive bloodshed. Hindus cannot reclaim their country without forcing 100+ million Muslims and 20 million Christians to accept it.

  2. Academic publication: Like the infinity foundation scholarly journal is doing, and many other such entities like them, by spreading several well researched articles accurately portraying Indian history, India’s outer and inner sciences, and publishing massive volumes to be used in history, anthropology, cultural studies, religious studies all over the world. In fact Indian intellectuals and intellectuals supporting the Indian cause need to get involved in every field of academia and actively Indianize the field. There are armies of such intellectuals today, but they often face institutionalized discrimination which labels them unfairly right-wing, Hindutva. The drawback of this, of course is, change in academia never happens overnight. They take decades to bring about changes. This is because academia is an institution based on the sum of past ideas and have vested interests in preserving them.

  3. By popular example: This is by far the best way to bring change. Writing a popular book which becomes a bestseller is the best way to enter the consciousness of the masses. Showing actual examples of what the change will bring, rather than theoretical debate, such has been done with model villages in India and experiments attempted by Auroville is the best way to show how effective Indian systems are. The drawbacks are as follows to this:

  1. You need lots of luck 2) You need influence to convince say a village to implement your system 3) You need credibility

Something I have increasingly come to realise is that it is not what you say or how you say it, it is who says it.

Also we cannot be religiously neutral. We cannot continue to pretend there is something called secularism and ones faith is something separate from the state. As I have argued already in response to Asuri, everybody has to form some view on the nature of reality. The current views we have are dominated by Abrahamic ideology. This needs to be changed to reflect a more dharmic view - because this is a correct view. Indian intellectuals in science and those supporting the Indian position, must demonstrate conclusively using the scientific method that our view is correct regarding

  1. We are infinite and eternal souls, which incarnate over and over again on the earth in order to return to our original nature
  2. There is indeed an ultimate and divine reality(Brahman) which permeates this entire universe and is the intelligence that operates everything
  3. There indeed are several dimensions in existence in which extradimensional being exist
  4. There is indeed an affect on human destiny of planets and other celestial bodies
  5. There are indeed higher states of consciousness which must be cultivated through Yoga
  6. There have indeed been many cycles of civilisations on this planet
  7. We must live in harmony with the laws of nature, because every action does affect the entire system

This means the Abrahamic religion must be shown to be false and Dharmic religion shown to be true. There is no room for political correctness. You either have the right view of reality or you do not. We want our future generations on this planet to be born on a planet with a right view.

Here is a model Indian village which transformed itself from a poor, illiterate and corrupt place into one of the richest and prosperous villages in India using traditional Indian ways:

Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralegan_Siddhi

Ralegaon Siddhi (aka Ralegan Shindi) is a village in Parner Taluka of Ahmednagar District , Maharashtra, India. It is considered a model of environmental conservation. Since 1975, led by Anna Hazare, the village has carried out programs like treeplanting, terracing to reduce soil erosion and digging canals to retain rainwater. For energy, the village uses solar power, biogas (some generated from the communal toilet) and a windmill.[1]

The village’s biggest accomplishment is in non-conventional energy. For example, all the village streets are lit by solar lights. Each light has a separate solar panel.[2]

In 1975 the village was afflicted by drought, poverty prevailed, and illicit liquor trade was widespread. The village tank could not hold water as the embankment dam wall leaked. Work began with the percolation tank construction. Hazare encouraged the villagers to donate their labor to repair the embankment. Once this was fixed, the seven wells below filled with water in the summer for the first time in memory. [3]

Now the village has water year round, as well as a grain bank, a milk bank, and a school. There is no longer any poverty.[4]

The World Bank Group has concluded that the village of Ralegan Siddi was transformed from a highly degraded village ecosystem in a semi-arid region of extreme poverty to one of the richest in the country. The Ralegan Siddi example, now 25 years old, by demonstrating that it is possible to rebuild natural capital in partnership with the local economy, is a model for the rest of the country.[5]

re: Sushruta

The infinity foundation article puts the best estimate of the age of Sushruta at around 600 BC. It is a comprehensive work focusing on surgery and other branches of medicine as they relate to the practice of surgery. It is remarkable that such a comprehensive and advanced medical treatise existed so far back in antiquity, although there is no reference to 1200 diseases alleged by Surya Deva. In their giddiness, the Hindus overlook this rather important observation:

“After attaining such great heights in the remote past, surgery was subsequently neglected; abandonment of dead body dissection and relegation of the manual work to inferior artisans gradually deprived those who studied the work of Susruta of practical knowledge. Thus while internal medicine advanced with time, surgery declined and was finally reduced to mere theory, except for some traditional families practicing it.”

It seems that in the area of surgery at least, the decline of Indian sciences occurred long before the arrival of either the British or the Muslims. And it should be pointed out that this medical book has nothing to do with religion, so it is probably more correct to refer to it as Indian science or Indian medicine, as opposed to Hindu.

More on this amazing transformation:

http://www.annahazare.org/ralegan-siddhi.html

Village, past

Swami Vivekananda’s philosophy has great bearing on Anna Hazare. His thoughts and work have been a constant source of inspiration for him. While serving in the Indian Army, he had decided to dedicate his life to social work, but he did not know how to begin.

While in the army, he used to visit his village for two months, every year during his leave period. The condition of the village was pathetic and awful. The land was barren and undulated. As the village is located in the rain-shadow area, the annual rainfall is a meager 400–500 mm. All of the rainwater use to run off and get wasted. There were no means to harvest this precious resource. Whatever rainwater use to get collected was sufficient to cultivate only one crop on 300–350 acres of land out of a total 2200 acres of land available in village. 80% families were surviving on one square meal in a day.

As food production was insufficient and no employment opportunities were available in the village, some villagers started brewing liquor to earn their livelihood. Gradually the number of breweries rose to 35. They were aware that what they were doing was socially and morally incorrect, but the circumstances forced them to adopt this profession for their livelihood. Some villagers had to walk 5–6 km. each day in search of employment in the nearby villages.

The helplessness due to poverty and indebtedness led people to desperation and ultimately to alcoholism. Quarrels and street fights became daily chores. Hazare’s house was in a hamlet just half a km. away from the centre of the village. Hazare avoided going to the heart of the village due to this pathetic condition. He always felt helpless since he could not do anything to change the conditions prevailing in the village.

Village, present and how it was transformed

When he decided to dedicate his life for social cause in 1975, he believed charity should begin from home. Swami Vivekananda’s words resonated in his mind - people would not listen to philosophical ideologies with empty stomachs. Social change is not possible if people are haunted by the daily problem of making two ends meet. Hazare taxed his brains on how to solve this crucial problem. He remembered that Late Mr. Vilasrao Salunkhe had in 1972, started experiments in watershed development and water management in some villages near Saswad in Pune district. His work used to be frequently discussed in informal gatherings everywhere. So, Hazare visited his project and was inspired. States Hazare, ``This visit gave a direction to my ideas and I decided to undertake similar work of watershed development in my village. ‘’

On resumption of the watershed development work in the village, Hazare started supervising the work at sites from dawn to dust, without taking a farthing as remuneration. He considered it as social work; and day by day his experience and knowledge was building up. With his experience and knowledge, he constructed many water harvesting structures with people’s participation. So far, 48 nulla bunds, 5 cement check dams and 16 Gabion structures have been constructed. The villagers under Hazare’s guidance, also undertook fodder development, continuous contour trenches and loose boulder structures on 500 acres of land.

The watershed development work helped in conserving each drop of rainwater in the village itself and in recharging the groundwater aquifers. This ultimately raised the water table. In the same village where earlier it was not possible to cultivate more than 300–350 acres of land for one crop, now the villagers are harvesting two crops in 1500 acres of land. Due to availability of water, the agricultural production has boosted up. The agricultural development has created lot of employment in the village itself. Not only has the distress migration completely stopped, but now wage labourers have to be hired from other villages in order to get various intercultural operations done in time.

Today the villagers have completely given up brewing of liquor. Nobody sells liquor in the village. Further, the shopkeepers do not sell cigarettes, beedies and tobacco too for the last 13 years.

Earlier only 300 liters of milk was sold from the village. Now the milk production has gone up to 4000 liters. This milk is purchased by cooperative and private dairies. This brings in Rs. 1.3 to 1.5 crores (13 to 15 million) annually to the village. The dairy business has flourished as a subsidiary to agriculture which has provided a new income generation avenue to the unemployed youths of the village.

The per capita income of the villagers has increased from Rs. 225 to Rs. 2500. This has completely transformed the economy of the village. The living conditions of the villagers have improved and the gap between the haves and have-nots has narrowed down. After the economic transformation of the village, villagers constructed buildings worth Rs.1 crore (10 million) for school, hostel and gymkhana and renovated the old village temple through financial contributions and shramdan.

Mass marriages are arranged in the village (generally 25 to 30 marriages at a time) in order to curb expenditure. This has helped in removing caste barriers and promoting social cohesiveness.

After the success of watershed development programme in Ralegan Siddhi, Hazare replicated it in the neighbouring four villages. The results are encouraging. Now the same project is being replicated in 80 – 85 villages of Maharashtra. Like any other village in India including Ralegan Siddhi, there was a social problem of untouchability. Today people of all castes and creeds live together in peace like members of the same family. The consecutive droughts led to non-payment of bank loans taken by the Dalit community for agriculture purposes. The bank decided to sell their mortgaged land to recover the loans. At this critical time, rest of the villagers decided to toil on the farmlands of Dalits and repay the loan by harvesting crops. The villagers cultivated their land in 1983-84 and 1984-85 through shramdan (voluntary labour), repaid the bank loan, and saved their land.

In the last 35 years, many institutions and cooperatives like Gram Panchayat, Cooperative Consumer Society, Cooperative Credit Society, Cooperative Dairy, Educational Society, Women’s Organization and Youth Organization, with different mandates are operating in Ralegan Siddhi. Till date no elections were held for the selection of members of these institutions. The members were selected unanimously by the villagers in the Gram Sabha. The Gram Sabha has emerged as a powerful forum for taking collective decisions at the village level. All the developmental programmes are implemented in the village after taking consent of the Gram Sabha.

Since last 15 years, thousands of visitors, not only from neighbouring states of India, but also from abroad, have viusited & are still visiting Ralegan Siddhi to study the impact of watershed development. They include researchers, academicians, farmers, government officials, people’s representatives and students.

Transformation of village economy alone could bring in transformation of the economy of the nation. That is possible only through watershed development programme. Today, our concept of development is based on exploitation of environment and humanity. We are dreaming of development by uncontrolled extraction of subsurface and surface resources like petroleum, coal, groundwater, vegetation and aquatic resources.

A quote from this great visionary and social worker:

The dream of India as a strong nation will not be realised without self-reliant, self-sufficient villages, this can be achieved only theough social commitment & involvement of the common man."

  • Anna Hazare

This is an amazing success story of just how effective the traditional knowledge systems of India are and how they produce prosperity, wealth, without compromising human values and the environment.

Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sushurata

There are numerous contributions made by Sushruta to the field of surgery.[3] Surgical demonstration of techniques of making incisions, probing, extraction of foreign bodies, alkali and thermal cauterization, tooth extraction, excisions, trocars for draining abscess draining hydrocele and ascitic fluid. Described removal of the prostate gland, urethral stricture dilatation, vesiculolithotomy, hernia surgery, caesarian section, management of haemorrhoids, fistulae, laparotomy and management of intestinal obstruction, perforated intestines, accidental perforation of the abdomen with protrusion of omentum. Classified details of the six types of dislocations, twelve varieties of fractures and classification of the bones and their reaction to the injuries. Principles of fracture management, viz., traction, manipulation, appositions and stabilization including some measures of rehabilitation and fitting of prosthetics. Classification of eye diseases (76) with signs, symptoms, prognosis, medical/surgical interventions and cataract surgery. Description of method of stitching the intestines by using ant-heads as stitching material. First to deal with embryology and sequential development of the structures of the fetus. Dissection and study of anatomy of human body. Introduction of wine to dull the pain of surgical incisions. Enumeration of 1120 illnesses and recommended diagnosis by inspection, palpation and auscultation

I apologise it was not 1200, but 1120 :wink: I was citing from memory.

Yes, there was a decline in the surgery tradition in India, but it did not disappear. It kept going till the 18th century. This is how the British learned how to do plastic surgery. The ancient method was reported in a British newspaper in detail, and then adopted by British medicine. In fact a majority of surgery techniques were adopted from Susruta. This really goes to attest how advanced Indian surgery was. Basically all Indian sciences were up to par with modern standards, and almost all modern sciences borrowed heavily from them. India was not just colonized for her wealth, but also her knowledge.

EDIT: I have seen several dates of Sushruta given 3000BCE, 1000BCE, 800BCE, 600BCE. This is not uncommon because the British distortion of Indian dates by rejecting Indian puranas, makes almost all dates controversial. The 3000BCE date is given because Sushruta is mentioned in the Mahabharata, which according to Indian records took place in 3000BCE.

re: Ralegan Siddhi

The village has indeed been transformed from a place of poverty to a prosperous agricultural community. Most of the improvement occurred as the result of a major improvement in watershed management, the building of an embankment to slow runoff from the hills and allow it to percolate into the soil. as a result water became available for irrigation and agricultural and milk production increased. It’s difficult to see how any of these improvements have anything to do with traditional Indian knowledge, except that they were largely the work of one man who did not marry and donated his earnings and his land for a temple. His first project was renovation of the temple, which was meant to demonstrate the selflessness of his intentions. The people then came to regard the improvement of the village as sort of a religious obligation. But the actual improvement in economic conditions came about from the improvement in watershed management and agricultural methods. The villagers formed cooperatives for water, grain, and dairy products. These types of cooperatives are fairly common in agricultural communities. In fact, this is practiced on a large scale in many places in the United States. The improvement in village conditions actually involved the elimination of some traditional practices, such as the caste system and traditional marriages. It’s really a stretch to say that this success story is the result of a return to traditional Indian ways, unless you consider the practical application of knowledge and science, not religion, to be the traditional way.

Ralegan Siddhi indeed used Indian traditional ways, even the reformer explicitly cites his inspiration was Swami Vivekananda. The Indian traditional society was a society of self-sufficient villages, like self-contained units that constituted Indian society, with no centralization. These were administered by a democratic village government known as panchayat, like the gram panchayat in Ralegan. Throughout India, water-management systems were built very similar to the ones in Ralegan, in fact modern satellite images show us that there were 1.2 million of such water tanks to collect rain water to irrigate the land, some 250 miles wide. The other similarity is that there is a social solidarity and people believe it is their duty to help in the betterment of society, such as sharing marriage ceremonies, and agreeing to abstain from alcohol. These are all marks of traditional Hindu society.

However, Ralegan is just a partial example, there are many other indigenious Indian technologies which when revived would transform the current agricultural economy into an industrial economy, without the use of factories, but traditional Indian metal working technologies which produced steel, copper, iron and zinc in higher quality and faster time than Europeans. There are explicit instuctions in ancient Sanskrit texts on how to transform lands and utilize resources to make a highly rich and prosperous society.

The key principle of traditional Indian society is a decentralized economy and democratic application of capital. If all villages in India revived the traditional knowledge systems we would once again see abundant wealth in this country, shared by everybody, and not just centralized to the elite English educated class.

You are such a dreamer. This is called seeing the world through rose-colored glasses. Sushruta’s method of anesthesia was wine, and they later advanced to cannabis. They also did not have electric power, lighting and diagnostic equipment like we have today. It’s probably fair to say these surgical procedures were near where we were in the 18th or 19th century, which is still relatively advanced considering the time that it was written. And it is a fact that these techniques were not widely practiced, but reduced to mere theory for a long time. If what you say is true, it was the British who revived them.

You need to listen more to what I say, because I often speak facts. The surgical tradition of Ayurveda did not die out, and the British learned surgery directly from the Hindus:

Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_surgery

Reconstructive surgery techniques were being carried out in India by 800 BC.[3] Sushruta, the father of Indian surgery[4], made important contributions to the field of plastic and cataract surgery in 6th century BC.[4] The medical works of both Sushruta and Charak originally in Sanskrit were translated into Arabic language during the Abbasid Caliphate in 750 AD.[5] The Arabic translations made their way into Europe via intermediaries.[5] In Italy the Branca family[6] of Sicily and Gaspare Tagliacozzi (Bologna) became familiar with the techniques of Sushruta.[5]

British physicians traveled to India to see rhinoplasties being performed by native methods.[7] Reports on Indian rhinoplasty performed by a Kumhar vaidya were published in the Gentleman’s Magazine by 1794.[7] Joseph Constantine Carpue spent 20 years in India studying local plastic surgery methods.[7] Carpue was able to perform the first major surgery in the Western world by 1815.[8] Instruments described in the Sushruta Samhita were further modified in the Western world.[8]

And nor am I saying that we should reject modern technology. If you actually read what I write, I said we need to revive the traditional Indian knowledge systems(an argument also made by Infinity foundation) and bring it up to date with 21st century technology and needs.

It’s probably fair to say these surgical procedures were near where we were in the 18th or 19th century

That is a fair statement. In fact pretty much all of ancient Hindu science is as advanced as where Europe was in the 18th, 19th and 20th century. This means Hindu civilisation was thousands of years ahead of the West/Europe. Now, I still wonder how advanced Hindu sciences are.

There is still no comparable science in the West to Panini’s grammar. Hence, why Panini is currently being studied by computer scientists in order to develop grammars for natural language with artificial processing.
There is still no comparable science in the West to Pinglas’s prosody. The immaculate classification of metres and the ability to create mathematical poetry
There is still no comparable science in the West to Indian music, which is microtonal
There is still no comparable science in the West to Ayurveda, which is now being shown through thousands of clinical trials to have higher efficacy in treating disease, and many of its traditional drugs are being accepted by modern medicine.
There is still no comparable science in the West to Kapila’s metaphysics, a precise description of matter and consciousness
There is still no comparable science in the West to Patanjali’s psychology

Ditto: Indian metallurgical techniques which could create corrision proof-resistant iron, develp high quality steel with carbon nanotubes, and many other such wonders which both fascinate and continue to elude the West. We are talking of a highly advanced scientific civilisation, which may still be ahead of ours. Unfortunately, we have lost so much knowledge on it.

The infinity foundation argue a very good case for why carrying on with the current Western science and technology will not lead to a sustinable future, and how we need to Indianized ways if we want a sustainable future. Pretty much echoing what I am saying:

http://www.indianscience.org/index.html

Western science and technology by itself will be inadequate in the future:

The rapidly-expanding, globalizing economy is built largely on Western lifestyles and is homogenizing human ‘wants’ in unachievable ways. Across the world, people are being forced to accept that progress, success and modernity are synonymous with Westernization. Those ‘left behind’ are made to feel like failures when measured against this standard. However, this promise of universal Westernization is simply unachievable. There are several reasons why:

  1. The capital required for universal Western-style development simply does not exist in the world, and the trickle down effect of free markets is too slow to reach the bottom tiers where most people live.

  2. Western civilization depends upon inequality (in the form of cheap labor) and massive natural resources, which is eventually unsustainable sociologically or ecologically. The global capitalist system in some ways stands in contradiction to individual rights, which it promotes in theory. For instance, a free market of labor would involve free movement of workers across international borders, but this would threaten the artificially high wages of Western citizens.

  3. The bulk of labor in the non-Western world is outside the framework of globalization and development. Significantly, today less than 10 per cent of India’s labor works in the ‘organized sector’, namely as employees of a company. The remaining 90 per cent comprises freelances, contract laborers, private entrepreneurs, and so on. Many of them still practice traditional, non-Westernized trades. Indian colonial law continues to render much of their work illegal, making them highly vulnerable to exploitation, corruption, and abuse.
    The descendants of India’s traditional knowledge workers, who built massive cities, who had highly developed and researched technologies, and who dominated world trade for centuries, are today de-legitimized in their own country. Many of today’s poor jatis, such as workers in textile, masonry and metal works, were at one time the empowered guilds that supplied the world with highly-prized manufacture.

  4. The Western economic development model demands relentless growth to sustain equity valuations in the financial markets, and yet growth cannot be indefinite once population stabilizes. A steady state economy in zero-growth equilibrium would devastate the wealth of the West, since all financial valuations are predicated on growth. Thus, there is a vested interest for the West to push its technologies without looking to the extended future. Even if the world’s six billion persons (anticipated to grow to ten billion by the middle of this century) were to magically achieve Western lifestyles, this would be temporary because of limits to the planet’s natural resources. When Gandhi was asked whether he would like India to develop a lifestyle similar to England’s, his reply may be paraphrased as follows: The British had to plunder the Earth to achieve their lifestyle. Given India’s much larger population, it would require the plunder of many planets to achieve the same.

  5. The West controls the institutions, standards, socio-economic categories and laws (such as the notions of ‘property’ and ‘justice’ which originated from Biblical concepts) on which the global system is based. The non-West is thus inherently disadvantaged. The West will be able to accommodate a relatively small percentage of non-Westerners as honorary Westerners, to serve as middlemen in managing and containing the non-Western masses, in exchange for enjoying Western privileges.

  6. Western lifestyle is built on inequality. Cheap labor, cheap natural resources, and blights like industrial pollution and environmental degradation must be exported to the third world facilitate this lifestyle. For Western lifestyle to exist, poverty and deprivation must also exist somewhere in the world. Many in the West show awareness and concern for the ‘Other’ but are unable to identify these problems as natural implications of Western lifestyle.

  7. Many traditional knowledge systems are relevant to economic planning today, because they are eco-friendly, sustainable, labor-intensive, rather than capital intensive. Implementation of traditional technologies should be done in parallel with top down ‘modern’ scientific development. For example:

Water is one of the more serious problem areas of India and many other parts of the world. There was an ancient Indian system of talabs (water tanks) in every village. They were designed to collect and store rainwater for irrigation and for drinking. It was a function of the village panchayat to maintain and administer these water tanks. However, under colonial rule, village governance was subverted or abandoned, since the goal was to maximize tax collection through a network of British-appointed “district collectors”. As native social structures were abandoned, many talabs went into disuse or misuse. Today, satellite pictures show only traces of what was once a massive network of man-made lakes.
This indigenous system scores over modern dams that are centrally managed and possible ecological hazards. In parts of Tamil Nadu and Rajasthan, many of these old talabs have been excavated and revived, alleviating, to a degree, water scarcity.

Indians were the first to develop steel, and the famous Delhi Iron Pillar is the world’s oldest extant rust-free sample of steel, having lasted 16 centuries. Leading metallurgists are now engaged in research to understand the old processes and their implications for developing corrosion-resistant iron for specific applications like concrete reinforcement bars.

Many healing systems from non-Western sources, including Indian medical systems, are now being revived. These complement modern medicine. Besides physical healing systems, such as Ayurveda, there is growing interest in Indian systems of mind-management, including forms of yoga and meditation. These have been incorporated in the West in the form of stress management or motivational training.

Less than five per cent of the known classical Indian texts (in Sanskrit, Tamil, etc.) have ever been translated. What might be the insights and knowledge systems of our ancestors that lie hidden in these? It is, therefore, imperative that we study, preserve, and revive traditional knowledge systems. India’s scientific heritage needs to be highlighted so as to replace Eurocentric historiography with an honest history of ideas.

Indian traditional knowledge systems, and how they can solve all of India’s water, ecological, sociological and industrial problems:

http://www.indianscience.org/index.html

Water Management

Given the importance of fresh water in India, it is no surprise that the technologies to manage water resources were highly advanced from Harappan times onwards. For example, in Gujarat, Chandragupta built the Sudarshan Lake in late 4th century BCE, and was later repaired in 150 BCE by his grandson. Bhopal’s Raja Bhoj Lake, built in 1014-1053, is so massive that it shows up in satellite images. The Vijayanagar Empire built such a large lake in 14th – 15th century CE that it has more construction material than the Great Wall of China. What some historians call the “Persian Wheel” is actually pre-Mughal and indigenous to India.

Scientists estimate there were 1.3 million man-made water lakes and ponds across India, some as large as 250 square miles. These are now being rediscovered using satellite imagery. These enabled rain water to be harvested and used for irrigation, drinking, etc. till the following year’s rainfall.

Comment: It has already been demonstrated how such water management systems implemented in Indian villages have completely transformed the fate of that village, leading to more irrigation, more crops and more wealth.

Textiles

Indian textiles have been legendary since ancient times. The Greeks and Romans extensively imported textiles from India. Roman archives record official complaints about massive cash drainage due to these imports from India.

One of the earliest industries relocated from India to Britain was textiles and it became the first major success of the Industrial Revolution, with Britain replacing India as the world’s leading textile exporter. What is suppressed in the discourse about India and Europe is the fact that the technology, designs and even raw cotton were initially imported from India while, in parallel, India’s indigenous textile mills were outlawed by the British. India’s textile manufacturers were de-licensed, even tortured in some cases, over-taxed and regulated, to ‘civilize’ them into virtual extinction. Textiles and steel were the mainstays of the British Industrial Revolution. Both had their origins in India. The Ahmedabad textile museum is a great resource for scholarly material.

Comment: Reviving the old textile industries in each village will create massive employment in particular for Indian women and clothe all the public. Rather then relying on expensive Western textiles of jeans, t shirts and shirts, cheaper, but higher quality Indian cotten can be again revived using traditional water powered Indian cotton gins, or solar electric powered machines

Iron and Steel

Iron is found in countries neighboring India, leading European scholars to assume that it came from outside India. Given the similarities between the Vedas and Avesta (a Zoroastrian text), some saw this as supporting the theory of diffusion of iron and Vedas into India from the outside. Refuting this, Vibha Tripathi finds that iron in India is much older. (See details in a subsequent chapter.) Cemeteries in present-day Baluchistan have iron objects. The earlier iron found in Middle Eastern archeological sites was essentially meteorite material sculptured as rock/stone carvings, and was not metallurgically processed at all. Since iron can be a by-product of copper technology, this could be its likely origin in India because copper was a well-known technology in many parts of ancient India. A smelting furnace dated 800 BCE is found in Naikund (Maharashtra), India. Recent discoveries reveal that iron was known in the Ganga valley in mid second millennium BCE. In the mid-first millennium BCE, the Indian wootz steel was very popular in Persian courts for making swords.

Rust-free steel was an Indian invention, and remained an Indian skill for centuries. Delhi’s famous iron pillar, dated 402 CE, is considered a metallurgical marvel and shows minimal signs of rust. The famous Damascus steel swords, now displayed in museums across Europe, were made from Indian steel imported by Europeans. The acclaimed Sheffield steel in UK was Indian crucible steel. The best brains of European science worked for decades to learn to reverse-engineer how Indians made crucible steel, and in this process, modern alloy design and physical metallurgy was developed in Europe. (For details see later chapters with book summaries.)

Indian industry was dealt a death blow by the colonial masters who banned the production and manufacture of iron and steel at several places in India, fearing their use in making swords and other arms. In addition, they also ensured India would depend upon iron and steel imported from Europe.

Another important Indian contribution to metallurgy was in the isolation, distillation and use of zinc. From natural sources, zinc content in alloys such as brass can go no higher than 28 per cent. These primitive alloys with less than 28 per cent zinc were prevalent in many parts of the world before India. However, to increase the zinc content beyond this threshold, one must first separate the zinc into 100 per cent pure form and then mix the pure zinc back into an alloy. A major breakthrough in the history of metallurgy was India’s discovery of zinc distillation whereby the metal was vaporized and then condensed back into pure metal.

Europeans learnt it for the first time in 1743, when know-how was transferred from India. Until then, India had been exporting pure zinc for centuries on an industrial scale. At archeological sites in Rajasthan, retorts used for the distillation are found in very large numbers even today.

Once zinc had become separated into a pure metal, alloys could be made with the required zinc component to provide the required properties. For instance, strength and durability increase with higher zinc component. Also, copper alloys look like gold when the zinc component is higher than 28 per cent. Most early brass objects found in other countries had less than 10 per cent zinc component, and, therefore, these were not based on zinc distillation technology.

Alloys that exceed 10 per cent zinc are found earliest in Taxashila in the fourth century BCE. However, while Taxashila was distilling and manufacturing zinc on a small scale, it was in Zawar, Rajasthan, where this first became industrialized on a large scale. Zinc mines have been found in Dariba (11th century BCE), Agucha (sixth century BCE) and Zawar (fifth century BCE). These mines have pots and other manufacturing tools of these dates, but the mining could be even older. (See further details in later chapters.)

Three important items are now proven about the history of zinc metallurgy: (i) zinc distillation and metallurgical usage was pioneered in India; (ii) industrial scale production was pioneered in Rajasthan; (iii) England transferred the technology of zinc from India in 1736. British metallurgy documents do not mention zinc at all prior to this transfer.

Comment: The villagers can establish mines in all the places where there is iron ore, zinc ore etc and using traditional Indian production technology extract the metal from the ore and use it to produce high quality utensils, metalworks, furniture etc. India still has one of the most effective metallurgical techniques which it uses to make statues of its deities and beautiful seamless globes, the lost-wax method.

Forest Management

Many interesting findings have recently come out about the way forests and trees were managed by each village and how a careful method was applied to harvest medicines, firewood and building material in accordance with natural renewal rates. There is now a database being built of ‘sacred groves’ across India. Once again, it’s a story of an economic asset falling into disuse and abuse because of the dismantling of local governance and disrespect for traditional systems.

Furthermore, when scholars try to explain India’s current ecological disasters, they seldom mention the large-scale logging of Indian timber by the British in order to fund the two world wars and various other industrial programs of the empire.

Comment: Through massive tree planations a village can grow herbs, plants, special woods like sandlewood for the use in herbal medicine and cooking

Farming Techniques

Indian farmers developed non-chemical, eco-friendly pesticides and fertilizers that have modern applications. These traditional pesticides have been recently revived in India with excellent results, replacing Union Carbide’s products in certain markets. Crop rotation and soil technology that has been passed down for thousands of years are traditional practices which India pioneered.

Historically, India’s agricultural production was large and sustained a huge population compared to other parts of the world. Surpluses were stored for use in a drought year. But the British turned this industry into a cash cow, exporting very large amounts of grain even during food shortages. This caused tens of millions of Indians to die of starvation in the 19th century.

Comment: Villages can use their own natural fertilizers and pesticides, to develop more organic and ecofriendly crops, grain and food. This will remove the need for them to rely on expensive and environmentally damaging Western style chemical fertilizers and pesticides

Traditional Medicine

Much re-legitimizing of traditional Indian medicine has already started, thanks in part to many Western labs and scientists. Many multinationals no longer denigrate traditional medicine and have in fact been trying to secure patents on Indian medicine without acknowledging the source. Traditional medicine is now a well-known and respected field.

Comment: Each village can set up a traditional Ayurvedic hospital, with expert Ayurvedic physicians to treat all major diseases that affect the villagers. This will reduce the need for villagers to rely on expensive Western pharmaceutical drugs, with their horrible side effects. When the wealth of the village increases modern diagnostic medical tools can be acquired.

Mathematics

Prof. C.K Raju, a renowned scholar, has researched the “clash of epistemologies” that occurred in European ideas about numbers. When Europeans started to import Indian ideas about mathematics, what had been natural to Indian thinkers for a long time was very hard for Europeans to accept. He divides this into three periods:

The first math war in Europe was from 10th to 16th centuries, during which time it took Europe 500 years to accept the zero, because the Church considered it to be heresy.
The second math war was over the Indian concept of indivisibles, which led to the theory of real numbers and infinitesimals, paving the way for the development of calculus. This war lasted three centuries, from the 17th to 19th centuries.
The third math war is now under way and is between computational math (Indian algorithmic approach) and formal math (Western approach).
Additionally, Indians developed many important concepts including the base-ten decimal system, now in global use, and crucial trigonometry and algebra formulae. They made several astronomical discoveries. Diverse schools of logic and philosophy proliferated.

Mathematical thought was intertwined with linguistics. India’s Panini is acknowledged as the founder of linguistics, and his Sanskrit grammar is still the most complete and sophisticated of any language in the world.

Comment: Each village should learn Sanskrit, because of the precise logical structure of its grammar, which will lead to very bright villagers. They should study the traditional philosophical systems of India(logic, physics, psychology, metaphysics, linguistics and theology) and the history of India, in addition to modern science and technology. In order to dispense this learning their should be dedicated Indian schools. Just like prior to the British, when each district had tens of thousands of schools.

In addition there should be guilds for vocational courses to study metallurgy, medicine, water and forest management, agriculture and generating energy, which engage in research to refine their methods. Again, like ancient Indian society.

Relationship with Inner Sciences:

India’s inner sciences of mind and consciousness are simultaneously (a) being appropriated by the West and (b) being depicted as anti-progressive and irrational. In fact, inner and outer realms of inquiry are often viewed as opposites that can, at best, be balanced but not unified. This falsely assumes that the inner sciences make a person and society less productive, creative, and competitive in the outer realm. However, contradicting this, India’s inner sciences and outer development coexisted in a mutually symbiotic relationship.

A strong inner science will definitely strengthen the outer science since it is the inner world which provides the inspiration, creativity, and knowledge that is necessary in the development of a sound outer science. A strong outer science allows the freedom for the exploration of the inner science. Without the use of technology of some form, man will be forced to dwell in his lower nature to satisfy his basic needs of survival.

The divorce of ‘religion’ and science is a strictly Western construct due to the dogmatic and rigid nature of the Abrahamic religions. History-centric religions (such as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) are often not compatible with the human tendency towards freedom of thought, intellectual originality, and non-conformity of thought which are necessary in scientific innovation. The tradition of spiritual experimentation in India, however, is compatible with the material and intellectual experimentation required by science.

Comment: Each village should have a central meditation hall, where everybody meditates in groups at appointed hours(like in the dome in Auroville) Yoga exercises should be practiced by all villagers as part of their daily schedule. Yoga exercises and meditation should actively be used in school. There should be formal Yoga studios too.

There should be a council of spiritual advisors who work democratically and keep the spirituality of the village alive.

Here is what should be abolished in Indian villages:

Factories: These are highly alienating and dehumanizing institutions where thousands of workers get exploited and made to do mundane and monotonous jobs for the sake of the employer,who pays his workers peanuts, and himself makes massive profits and then sells the product on the market for very expensive prices. In addition they produce massive pollution and damage the environment.

Pubs, bars and clubs: These are places where vice breeds, where people allow themselves to get intoxicated and engage in antisocial behaviour and destroy their health and minds.

Malls and supermarkets: These are places which make the common man completely dependent on buying unnecessary commodities and fetishishing over them, and again they are a way of creating massive profits for a group of individuals.

These are the products of Western civilisation and need to be rejected. In favour of decentralized industry, cleaner and ecofriendly solutions, and high value producing institutions like temples, libraries and meditation halls.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;54464]Here is what should be abolished in Indian villages:

Factories: These are highly alienating and dehumanizing institutions where thousands of workers get exploited and made to do mundane and monotonous jobs for the sake of the employer,who pays his workers peanuts, and himself makes massive profits and then sells the product on the market for very expensive prices. In addition they produce massive pollution and damage the environment.

Pubs, bars and clubs: These are places where vice breeds, where people allow themselves to get intoxicated and engage in antisocial behaviour and destroy their health and minds.

Malls and supermarkets: These are places which make the common man completely dependent on buying unnecessary commodities and fetishishing over them, and again they are a way of creating massive profits for a group of individuals.

These are the products of Western civilisation and need to be rejected. In favour of decentralized industry, cleaner and ecofriendly solutions, and high value producing institutions like temples, libraries and meditation halls.[/QUOTE]

So are you going into politiks?

P.s. Lots of good material on this here thread and I thank you for it.

So are you going into politiks?

P.s. Lots of good material on this here thread and I thank you for it.

No, because I have zero credibility in that field. There are already many people sharing my views in positions of power in politics in India, so my addition is going to be negligible. Again, I have realised, it is not what you say, nor how you say it, but who says it. I need to first become something, before I can influence other people. Hence, I am taking the traditional sadhana route to become a spiritual teacher, reach a high level of personal development, and then use that to influence other people towards the betterment of society.

It will become increasingly clear to everybody living in the world in the next few years that Western ways do not lead to a sustainable future, but rather lead to socieities with vast inequality. This is already becoming apparent to tens of millions of British and American people who are now tasting poverty. The future generations will themselves demand decentralized, ecofriendly, equalitarian economies and socieities. Thus the Indian way will prevail ultimately. What is important, is to cataylse this process, by directly applying the Indian way.

I cannot do that at this stage, because I have individual priorties. This is why I openly share my knowledge and resources I read myself with others, in hope that maybe they will do something. The role I am playing at this moment, is a small but noble role, to raise awareness through everyday practices like discussing on forums and discussing with everyday people - before I fly off to India and begin my spiritual journey. Then I will fully withdraw from all wordly activity.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;54476]No, because I have zero credibility in that field. There are already many people sharing my views in positions of power in politics in India, so my addition is going to be negligible. Again, I have realised, it is not what you say, nor how you say it, but who says it. I need to first become something, before I can influence other people. Hence, I am taking the traditional sadhana route to become a spiritual teacher, reach a high level of personal development, and then use that to influence other people towards the betterment of society.

It will become increasingly clear to everybody living in the world in the next few years that Western ways do not lead to a sustainable future, but rather lead to socieities with vast inequality. This is already becoming apparent to tens of millions of British and American people who are now tasting poverty. The future generations will themselves demand decentralized, ecofriendly, equalitarian economies and socieities. Thus the Indian way will prevail ultimately. What is important, is to cataylse this process, by directly applying the Indian way.

I cannot do that at this stage, because I have individual priorties. This is why I openly share my knowledge and resources I read myself with others, in hope that maybe they will do something. The role I am playing at this moment, is a small but noble role, to raise awareness through everyday practices like discussing on forums and discussing with everyday people - before I fly off to India and begin my spiritual journey. Then I will fully withdraw from all wordly activity.[/QUOTE]

It is not simply the indian way that will prevail - it is the Dharma which will prevail for it is what is true and right and in accord.

I’m glad your not looking at politiks. One man may accomplish much more by not getting swallowed up and mired in the politikal game which is ripe with corruption.

But that is not to say one man can not use politiks to affect beneficial change as illustrated by Ghandi.

[QUOTE=The Scales;54492]It is not simply the indian way that will prevail - it is the Dharma which will prevail for it is what is true and right and in accord.

I’m glad your not looking at politiks. One man may accomplish much more by not getting swallowed up and mired in the politikal game which is ripe with corruption.

But that is not to say one man can not use politiks to affect beneficial change as illustrated by Ghandi.[/QUOTE]

again…here here…

[QUOTE=Asuri;54437]re: Sushruta

The infinity foundation article puts the best estimate of the age of Sushruta at around 600 BC. It is a comprehensive work focusing on surgery and other branches of medicine as they relate to the practice of surgery. It is remarkable that such a comprehensive and advanced medical treatise existed so far back in antiquity, although there is no reference to 1200 diseases alleged by Surya Deva. In their giddiness, the Hindus overlook this rather important observation:

“After attaining such great heights in the remote past, surgery was subsequently neglected; abandonment of dead body dissection and relegation of the manual work to inferior artisans gradually deprived those who studied the work of Susruta of practical knowledge. Thus while internal medicine advanced with time, surgery declined and was finally reduced to mere theory, except for some traditional families practicing it.”

It seems that in the area of surgery at least, the decline of Indian sciences occurred long before the arrival of either the British or the Muslims. And it should be pointed out that this medical book has nothing to do with religion, so it is probably more correct to refer to it as Indian science or Indian medicine, as opposed to Hindu.[/QUOTE]

Surgery is one aspect of “Indian” (there was so such name back then, with respect to the sub-continent) science.

Most Indian sciences did decline heavily with Muslim and European invasions.

[QUOTE=Asuri;54454]You are such a dreamer. This is called seeing the world through rose-colored glasses. Sushruta’s method of anesthesia was wine, and they later advanced to cannabis. They also did not have electric power, lighting and diagnostic equipment like we have today. It’s probably fair to say these surgical procedures were near where we were in the 18th or 19th century, which is still relatively advanced considering the time that it was written. And it is a fact that these techniques were not widely practiced, but reduced to mere theory for a long time. If what you say is true, it was the British who revived them.[/QUOTE]

You are such a fool. Since when did “taking” become “reviving?”

Besides, such ancient Indian techniques have been practiced in many parts of India throughout millennia.