Positive thinking

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

What do you all think about positive thinking! Do you think it really makes a difference to what happens in your life or is it perhaps good for the sake of feeling good, if you know what I mean?

I meditate regularly, which I started as a way of trying to train my mind to stop worrying and analyising all the time about certain situations and to try and stay more in the present (as it turns out yoga has also added a spiritual dimension to my life). It’s certainly making a difference and helping my mind not to go into sheer panic mode anymore, although I often keep quietly worrying during the day and have to remind myself to let the thoughts go. I realise it takes practice and patience to change my thought patterns. However, do you think if I add positive thoughts and affirmations with my meditation it would make a difference to my mind and/or actual outcomes or is it best to perhaps just stay neutral?

Any thoughts will be welcome, thanks.

#2

All thinking either takes place in the past or the future. The aim of Yoga as you correctly identify is to remain in the present. This is why positive-thinking is at odds with Yoga. In fact many Yoga gurus and Buddhist monks are highly critical of the new age fad of positive thinking. Not only just Yoga gurus and Buddhists, but psychological professions like CBT therapists are critical of it and encourage one to think realistically and rationally, as opposed to positively.

Positive thinking is a form of self-deception in a way. If you say positive statements to yourself like, “I am beautiful and sexy, look at me, I am so hot I am on fire” and in reality you are a 15 stone ugly woman, you are going to set yourself up for major disappointments, because eventually somebody will be kind enough to remind you of the reality. Likewise, if you are unemployed, single and lonely and you say to yourself, “I am succesfull, everybody loves me” you are again setting yourself up for disappointment, because eventually somebody is going to remind you of the reality.

In general I advice against any kind of positive label like “I am beautiful, good looking, confident, sexy, intelligent, successful awesome, amazing” these labels will bolster up our ego. That is the last thing we want to do in Yoga, because every last trace of ego eventually needs to go. There is no point bolstering something up which eventually has to go.

#3

Positive thinkers are healthier, happier, more successful, and generally more fun to be around than negative thinkers. Do you think that’s just a fluke?

#4

I am personally skeptical of this claim that positive thinkers are healthier, happier, successful than negative thinkers, and would like to to see clinical and peer reviewed studies that supports this conclusion.

In any case, perhaps there is an argument that positive thinkers are more happier than negative thinkers. It is better to think “I am great” than to think “I am a loser” but my argument is that “I am great” is unstable belief to have, because as soon as evidence to the contrary is found that belief will collapse. It is more rational to have beliefs that are more accurate. I am also speaking from personal experience in that I have tried positive thinking myself, but I have found the positive affirmations difficult to maintain in light of actual evidence in reality. I found that as soon as I started using affirmations which were realistic and accurate they worked much better.

#5

If yoga is the context, thought is an outcome and positive vs negative is an unnecessary adjective. “Doing” positive thinking is a misnomer too.

Thought is a function of the percetion process that is captive to the tyrrany of guna. Thoughts precede action/ behavior that defines whether the thought was positive or otherwise, in hindsight. Guna has three components and our awareness of the subtelties decide which component would dominate others. That’s why sattvic thoughts are preferred over rajasic or tamasic and in this we are talking about a structural change in thinking and behavior, rather than very subjective concepts of positive vs negative thinking.

If you want to stop anxiety and analyse situations, you need to make ‘thought-making’ process itself your target in meditation. Stand aside of yourself, be a witness, watch the breath. That will stop the runaway mind chatter and slow down the thought-train. Slowly recollect the thoughts in reverse as far back as you can go. Soon you will be able to slow down thought formation and space them at will.

Finally, whn you would succeed in pausing the thoughts at will, you will get rid of anxiety for real. So, positive thinking can be a baby step in right direction; but its a long journey.

#6

“The mind is everything - what you think, you become”. Buddha

At the very least, thinking positive makes you less of a bore.

#7

I think a lot of people don’t understand positive thinking. Positive thinking is a habit of seeing the glass as half full rather than half empty.

If something is worrying you, positive thinking would be realistically assessing the situation, making a plan of action, and having some faith that you can implement your plan and that your plan will work. Only a complete idiot never worries. At least you are dealing with your problems. Your glass is half full.

#8

This is a very good question that I am going to go away and think about and then come back with my thoughts on it…

#9

Definitely think so

was always told you are what you think

your goals - your doubts = your reality

#10

Thank you so much for your replies.

Surya, I do understand what you’re saying about realistic, I know what you mean. However, Flex and Bolno, I agree with you that it appears people who are positive thinkers do seem to have happier and more successful lives and how they think about themselves seems to affect their lives in a positive way.

However, Surya, (and I realise you are just giving examples to help and not directing it personally) I am not interested in bolstering my ego in any way. The main thing I need is to quieten my mind from anxiety about the future. I’ve always believed myself to be a very easy going person in general, but as time has gone on I have started to worry about certain things. They are feelings of impending doom and I feel like I want to curl up and die to end the thoughts. Of course this type of thinking just cannot go on - it has to stop! It’s not going to help as I’ll just end up going completely mad. This is why I have been meditating, and it is certainly starting to make a difference.

Yes, Suhas, while meditating I have indeed been learning to watch my thoughts and be a witness. Thank you very much for the added helpful information about thought processes. And Asuri, thank you very much for your words of encouragement.

I wonder what all your thoughts are regarding the following. A couple of people who know me well have said to me that thinking negative thoughts can make negative things happen and thinking positive thoughts makes good things happen. I don’t know if they really think this or they’re just saying it to make me change the way I think! That’s why I was wondering if I should add positive affirmations to my meditation (telling myself everything is ok etc). I am however happy to stay neutral and not think either way, it’s a whole lot better than worrying after all.

Kind regards, Yoganewgirl

#11

[I]Vitarka Badhane Pratipaksa Bhavana[/I]

The thoughts you mention cannot be pulled from the consciousness like weeds, They must be overwhelmed by the planting, nurturing, and subsequent growing of their opposite.

Supplant the current doom thoughts with an overgrowth of “positive thoughts” as long as “positive” for you means the opposite of doom (since that is the term you’ve shared).

This is the application of Pratipaksha Bhavana and can be found in the second pada of The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali (2.33).

Gordon

#12

Actually I think you’ve already made a good first step. You’ve stopped the negative with, ‘I have to stop thinking like this, because it’s not going to help’. You replaced it with ‘things are going to be ok’ . That is a positive change. You might need to do more, but you’re moving in the right direction.

#13

Yoganewgirl,

Again I would like to see peer reviewed clinical studies that show positive thinking does indeed produce happiness and success. I am skeptical, because this kind of new age philosophy of positive thinking is used to sell stuff like the Secret, law of attraction merchandize. I basically see it as lazy psuedo spirituality. As if simply stating to yourself, “Today, I will meet my soulmate” or “I can fly” is going to actually make it happen.

If positive thinking is working for you, then more power to you and continue to use it. It can help if one really believes in the statements they are telling themselves. But like I said if the beliefs are unrealistic, eventuality you will get a reality check. In treating issues like anxiety etc CBT psychotherapy is the most proven method and has been tested in hundreds of clinical trials. It is the best mode of treatment we have today. In CBT, one think realistically and rationally, as opposed to positively.

Let us look at your situation: You have thoughts of impending doom which makes you feel like you are going mad. In CBT your issue will be approached through logically disputing your beliefs. This is done using a range of structured logical techniques like thought monitoring forms, Socratic questioning, goal directed thinking(Similar to what Asuri described in the previous post)

[B]Thought monitoring:[/B]

SITUATION: Excessive worrying thoughts about what is going to happen
FEELING: Feel like I am going crazy, stress, headaches
THOUGHTS: Something bad is going to happen, I cannot cope with something bad about to happen
BELIEFS: Bad things should not happen, I can only cope with good things
THINKING ERRORS: Shoulds, jumping to conclusions
DISPUTE: I prefer that bad things do not happen, but it does not always have to be that bad things do not happen. Life is constantly changing and unpredictable, with ups and downs. If something bad happens, then most likely something good will follow. I find it easier to cope with good things like positive feelings and positive thoughts, but though I find it hard to cope with negative feelings and negative thoughts, I still can endure it, because I am still here. It is difficult, but I can pull through in the end. I know that if I constantly face these negative thoughts and feelings I will be able to cope better and better
POSITIVE ACTIONS: Set up an experiment to face my fears. Put myself in situations which produce bad feelings and thoughts, starting with situations I can manage more easily moving my way up to more anxiety inducing situations.

It takes time before we internalize the new ways of thinking. It is done through constant repetition of the new thinking to yourself, reminding yourself by distilling it into an affirmation, writing it down on paper, making a poster or a flash card. The most powerful method is behaviour disputing by progressively exposing yourself to the situations that are inducing the anxiety. You will find in most cases that what actually happens in reality is not as bad as you anticipated, and this provides the strongest proof to change your thinking.

Now suppose instead of doing this you simply replaced your thinking with a positive thought, “Nothing bad will happen, only good things will happen” This will reinforce your current beliefs and current thinking errors of shoulds etc, which are responsible for your anxiety in the first place. As soon as something bad does eventually happen you will find yourself worse of than before.

Another bit of advice I wanted to give you, is not to mix your meditations with your affirmations. You can do a separate exercise in the day or several times a day where you state your affirmation. For meditation, just allow yourself time to be without any thoughts using either mindfulness meditation or object meditation.

#14

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;73556][I]Vitarka Badhane Pratipaksa Bhavana[/I]

Supplant the current doom thoughts with an overgrowth of “positive thoughts” as long as “positive” for you means the opposite of doom (since that is the term you’ve shared).

This is the application of Pratipaksha Bhavana and can be found in the second pada of The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali (2.33).

Gordon[/QUOTE]

This Sutra is often cited to show that Patanjali/Yoga advocates positive thinking or market positive thinking products to Yogis. However, what they do not cite is the Sutra following it defining exactly what Pratipaksha Bhavana is. In the other thread [I]Practicing Yamas[/I] I show the the sutras in context:

[i]2.33 When these codes of self-regulation or restraint (yamas) and observances or practices of self-training (niyamas) are inhibited from being practiced due to perverse, unwholesome, troublesome, or deviant thoughts, principles in the opposite direction, or contrary thought should be cultivated.
(vitarka badhane pratipaksha bhavanam)

vitarka = troublesome thoughts, deviating (from the yamas and niyamas)
badhane = disturbed by, inhibited by
pratipaksha = to the contrary, opposite thoughts or principles
bhavanam = cultivate, habituate, thought of, contemplate on, reflect on

2.34 Actions arising out of such negative thoughts are performed directly by oneself, caused to be done through others, or approved of when done by others. All of these may be preceded by, or performed through anger, greed or delusion, and can be mild, moderate or intense in nature. To remind oneself that these negative thoughts and actions are the causes of unending misery and ignorance is the contrary thought, or principle in the opposite direction that was recommended in the previous sutra.
(vitarkah himsadayah krita karita anumoditah lobha krodha moha purvakah mridu madhya adhimatrah dukha ajnana ananta phala iti pratipaksha bhavanam)

vitarkah = troublesome thoughts, deviating (from the yamas and niyamas)
himsadayah = harmful and the others (himsa = harmful; adayah = et cetera, and so forth)
krita = committed (by oneself)
karita = caused to be done (by others)
anumoditah = consented to, approved of (when done by others)
lobha = greed, desire
krodha = anger
moha = delusion
purvakah = preceded by
mridu = mild, slight
madhya = middling
adhimatrah = intense, extreme
dukha = misery, pain, suffering, sorrow
ajnana = ignorance (a = without; jnana = knowledge)
ananta = infinite, unending (an = un; anta = ending)
phala = fruition, results, effects
iti = thus
pratipaksha = to the contrary, opposite thoughts or principles
bhavanam = cultivate, habituate, thought of, contemplate on, reflect on[/i]

So what is Pratipakasha Bhavana? “To remind oneself that these negative thoughts and actions are the causes of unending misery and ignorance is the contrary thought, or principle in the opposite direction that was recommended in the previous sutra.”

In other words this is not positive thinking, this is CBT logical disputing, in particular it is goal-directed thinking. This is where we dispute negative, irrational and unwholesome thoughts by reminding ourselves they are not useful to our goal of happiness, well being or success, or in terms of Yoga to our goal of enlightenment. However, Patanjali also alludes that we must contemplate that the thoughts are ignorant. Like CBT, Patanajli provides a system of classification and framework for recognizing the type of afflection(klesha) the thought belongs to:
Ignorance, Ego, attachment, aversion, fear of change/death.

When we are able to correctly label our thoughts as they occur as to what afflection are present within them we are able to understand them and through understanding dissolve them e.g. You see Tom and the thought comes “Tom, that conniving b*stard, I bet he is up to no good again like before, I must be cautious” and you start feeling bitter and anxious about what Tom is up to. Using Pratipaksha Bhavana, you can identify the afflictions present in your thought as:

AVERSION
EGO
FEAR OF CHANGE

You have an an aversion to Tom because of a previous bad experience with Tom. He hurt your pride in the past, because he exposed you and humiliated you in front of your friends. You have not forgiven him and continue to hold malice in your heart against him, but you still don’t know whether Tom has changed yet or not. In actual fact Tom did apologize for what he did in the past, but you have not moved on. Contemplating as such, you realize that you are causing yourself unnecessary grief and suffering. When this understanding dawns these negative thoughts and feelings will dissolve.

#15

Btw I submit again what I said in the past: Patanajli is a master psychologist and is Yoga is nothing more than practical psychology. Much of what Patanjali discovered about the mind and the methods and techniques he devised we are only starting to discover and invent today. Yoga is a good as any psychological therapy out there, and if you practice Yoga exactly as Patanjali prescribed not only will you gain mental health, but total transformation of your body.

#16

Surya Deva,
I think, Patanjali wasn’y just an insightful psychologist, but a psychiatrist with precise knowledge of neurology; wel-versed in macro-level cosmology and micro-level biology; knowledgeable in evolutionary processes dovetailing into epigenetics; an expert in Newtonian physics as well as the quantum principles; in full command over the spectrum of geometry right upto force-fields and so on. You know the academics better.

And all this without a lab or a government grant.

#17

I also bet my mothers shoe collection that Patanjali was a positive thinker.

#18

I think Surya Deva’s explanation of sutra II.34 is good, and in agreement with classical commentators, although I’m not sure that it rises to the level of CBT. Reflecting a little on these sutras, I get the impression that II.33 states a general principle, using [I]vitarka[/I] in an unqualified way. II.34 talks about a particular category of troublesome thought [I]vitarka himsadayah[/I], with various varieties and levels. The [I]pratipaksha[/I] given in the sutra is the antidote for this particular category of [I]vitarka[/I]. It serves to illustrate how the principle works.

Working from the perspective of yoga, for the particular variety of [I]vitarka[/I] that yoganewgirl is experiencing, what is the correct [I]pratipaksha[/I]? As I said earlier, I think she’s already started on the right path by challenging her old way of thinking and adopting a more positive outlook, and that if she continues to do that sort of thing, and takes positive actions, things may very well turn out ok.

#19

II.33 is the introduction of the principle
II.34 is the definition of the principle

Patanjali does this throughout the Yoga sutras. In one sutra a general introduction will be given, and then in a subsequent sutra a definition will be given. This one is pretty much a no brainer and really does not require any extensive analysis on what pratipaksha bhavan is. It is when one contemplates on the nature of contrary thoughts(contrary to the practice) and reminds themselves that they are not useful, born of ignorance and counterproductive.

I have noticed Asuri does not like it when Yogic or Samkhya concepts get compared to modern concepts. However, they only get compared because they are in fact similar enough to warrant a direct comparison, sometimes they are identical to modern concepts. For example the Samkhya concept of “Moolaprakriti” is the same as modern concepts of quantum matter. Even the word itself translates to quantum or fundamental matter. In like the manner the concepts and techniques used in CBT are similar, if not identical to those in Yoga. Pratipaksha bhavana is more or less identical to logical disputing in CBT. Anybody who has studied CBT and studied Yoga will see it clearly.

In Pratipaksha bhavana one intercepts their contrary thoughts, and then disputes those thoughts by talking to themselves on their irrational and counterproductive nature. In CBT one intercepts their thoughts, and then disputes those thoughts by talking themselves on their irrational and counterproductive nature.

Notice I am not saying Yoga is basically CBT. It does indeed contain similar concepts to CBT, but it is a much more integral psychology than CBT, because it also contains concepts from other approaches like psychodynamic, social and transpersonal approaches. Patanjali’s Yoga pretty much covers the entire field of modern psychology.

#20

[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;73584]Surya Deva,
I think, Patanjali wasn’y just an insightful psychologist, but a psychiatrist with precise knowledge of neurology; wel-versed in macro-level cosmology and micro-level biology; knowledgeable in evolutionary processes dovetailing into epigenetics; an expert in Newtonian physics as well as the quantum principles; in full command over the spectrum of geometry right upto force-fields and so on. You know the academics better.

And all this without a lab or a government grant.[/QUOTE]

Someone should inform the Western Psychologists of this!..they are just beginning to realise these things with their CBT versions.

I mentioned earlier somewhere:- Ta-ti ta-ra ta-ra (hope I have this right ugg) this is the latest discovery in CBT. This pattern interrupts thoughts patterns when repeated. (from commentary off the TV.)

In Buddhism it is:- A-mi Ta-bha Bu-ddha repeated six times as unwanted thoughts arise will make you forget what the unwanted thoughts were.

The differences here are the time span of discovery of this technique. The first is new the latter is ancient.

The latter tells you to use it as soon as the thoughts arise. Leaving it longer than this makes it less effective.