Psychedelics Creating Kundalini Awakening

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#93

“This is impossible. By drugs you can activate only Ida and Pingala and get some side effects out of this”

It is not really the case. And you should stop speaking of something of which you have absolutely no understanding.

There are methods which involve the use of drugs as a means towards several different things. It is not because of the drugs themselves, but the impact that the drugs have upon the mind and the subtle energies which are flowing through ones system. It is possible to use drugs to create a certain atmosphere in the mind and body which makes one capable of awakening the Kundalini - but it has to be done in a very particular way, and it is a method which is only compatible with a specific personality type. That is why, on average, it is safe to dismiss most of these methods of not having much relevance. If one wants to awaken Kundalini - learn the techniques of Tantra Yoga. All too often, people are desperate for a quick fix, with everything in life. This attitude of trying to find a quick fix is just the projection of a coward, who is too afraid to do the necessary investigation to deal with the root causes of one’s problems. So, you just try to eliminate symptoms. Even in the spiritual sciences, there are such quick fixes, but like all quick fixes - they only eliminate symptoms rather than deal with the root cause.

#94

Actually, the response and reaction of injesting psychedelics is much more measurable and predictable than trying to assertain the likely results of a belief system predicated on faith (kundalini).

This is not to say that there is not a discrete cellular arrangement mirroring the kundalin paradigm. Only that where it currently and discernably begins is usually where science ends.

It’s sort of like asking whether it’s a good idea to try to see god by taking psychedelics. If your mind is closed to any other paradigm, then it’s probably better just to stick with the one that you like. But if you’re truly a seeker and your attempt to probe your inner workings is based on the desire to gain a genuine understand of them rather than to try to amp up an already decided upon framework, then psychedelics might provide assistance.

#95

[QUOTE=DNAch;78183]Actually, the response and reaction of injesting psychedelics is much more measurable and predictable than trying to assertain the likely results of a belief system predicated on faith (kundalini).

This is not to say that there is not a discrete cellular arrangement mirroring the kundalin paradigm. Only that where it currently and discernably begins is usually where science ends.

It’s sort of like asking whether it’s a good idea to try to see god by taking psychedelics. If your mind is closed to any other paradigm, then it’s probably better just to stick with the one that you like. But if you’re truly a seeker and your attempt to probe your inner workings is based on the desire to gain a genuine understand of them rather than to try to amp up an already decided upon framework, then psychedelics might provide assistance.[/QUOTE]

DNAch,

What? LOL

I have never read a more ridiculous interpretation of kundalini in all my life. Where did you get this? No offense, but it’s completed deluded and has nothing to do with either the anatomy or the phenomena, both of which have nothing to do with faith.

Kundalini is not of the mind or heart, but of the body. No drug will make ha and tha come together. Absolutely nothing to do with hallucination. It has to be made to come together, bound and then lifted only with the most vigilant strength and discipline, and that’s over a extended period of time. Partial awakening is possible by accident, through shaktipat, or physical trauma of some type, but it’s fleeting and is not the controlled and balanced union that causes kundalini (or the concerted action of ha and tha, rather than alternating?) to first center in sushumna and then rise in a way that is directed. That takes not drugs or spontaneity, or wishing or faith, but mastery, skill, and more hard work than 99% of people frankly, are willing to put into it.

Sorry for the bad news. The good news is, it’s real for the lucky ones, although you still have to go to work and pay your bills.

Good luck with this one.

siva

#96

I’m sorry you misunderstood. I was not indicting the validity of kundalini, but simply the scientific validity of kundalini -a validity which admittedly does have its limitations. It is difficult to compare and combine psychedelic substances with kundaline however, because psychedelics come from the realm of science. They are compounds that have specific physical properties. They are analyzed within serious scientific journals using standard peer review procedures that conclude with replicable and repeatable outcomes. To the best of my knowledge, the source for kundalini is the realm of metaphor and belief system. I do not know of any scientific study conducted exploring kundalini that proves its existence. I would be interested to read about it because I do sense a yet scientifically undiscovered phenomenon occuring within my body when I practice yoga and medidate in stillness.

What I find particularly ridiculous and hypocritical is the unsavory reputation that psychedelic medicine carry with them. Like virtually everything else that exists in ahimsa, they can be extremely beneficial when used properly.

#97

Siva,
Not just DNAch’s interpretation of kundalini but many others on this thread are either ridiculous or funny. In fact, sometimes one wonders whether the rigors of this science is trivialized by the glamor of yoga styles and the freedom at the hands of the venturous. InnerAthlete rightly asked the fundamental question, ?why we want to awaken kundalini.?
If Kundalini is pure energy it would need channel strong enough to carry it and the end- purpose high enough to spend it. Otherwise the awakened power will burn a weak channel or destroy a lame target. In my limited experience even the presence of Ishvara shines forth at such intensity that the ordinary vision of ?light? is poor in comparison.
We also seem to be confusing the blissful state of Samadhi with the process that delivers it. Even Paranjali has observed that states similar to Samadhi can be reached by drugs and other means. However, there is a fundamental difference. The induced state would last only as long as the agent (drugs etc) is present. While the yogic state is achieved through practice and occurs on its own when the obstacles preventing it are taken away. Continued yoga practice brings about the Samadhi state almost at will and unaided. The state is sustained because the physio-astral support systems are purified and nurtured to do so.
But question still remains why awaken this power. The only higher purpose seems to be enlightenment for which any external orientation has to cease. We depend on air-breathing for bodily purification and food intake for energy. This requires external dependence. Kundalini eliminates even these dependencies as it is produced at Muladhara and deployed all over. Besides, kundalini is not a mere substance. As a life-force of the universe it has intelligence. Barring exceptional cases of accidental awakening (perhaps karmic in nature) Kundalini takes very long to awaken to ensure it has proper conditions to survive. Those who imagine Kundalini like a light beam of Star Wars or flame of a thousand candles are missing something vital.

#98

[QUOTE=DNAch;78199]It is difficult to compare and combine psychedelic substances with kundaline however, because psychedelics come from the realm of science. They are compounds that have specific physical properties. They are analyzed within serious scientific journals using standard peer review procedures that conclude with replicable and repeatable outcomes. To the best of my knowledge, the source for kundalini is the realm of metaphor and belief system. I do not know of any scientific study conducted exploring kundalini that proves its existence.[/QUOTE]

DNAch,

Show me the science, huh? My response to you is not about the validity of kundalini or drugs, but in your awareness of the limitations of science. I think there is a great value for you in contemplating this.

Science is limited to the instrument with which you measure your outcome. No?
Peer reviews? So, not until all ones peers are unified in their “belief” can we call it science? We can hope that might happen someday, but a peer review of kundalini masters?

Will random experience ever be science? People make believe together all the time and call it “science.” How many times they have been wrong. Take a look at history. Psychedelics have been around and in use long before they were studied scientifically. Does this also mean that before then these “extreme benefits” you mention were in the “realm of metaphor and belief?” Technically, yes, but actually not.

[QUOTE=DNAch;78199]What I find particularly ridiculous and hypocritical is the unsavory reputation that psychedelic medicine carry with them. Like virtually everything else that exists in ahimsa, they can be extremely beneficial when used properly.[/QUOTE]

Extremely beneficial, is absolutely not going to happen. Anything that reveals to you your own self conscience, is extremely beneficial, it’s why alcohol used to be referred to as “spriits?”

Again, I am not picking on you, but rather trying to elucidate an all too common barrier to understanding.

siva

#99

Thanks for your response. I believe I acknowledged the limitations of science in both of my posts. However, I’m not sure that lets “kundalini” off the hook. Should there not be some verifiable commonality in which the physical experiences referred to as kundalini are elicited and predicted? I am not a skeptic, rather I seek clarification to avoid simply emulating conditions that might be irrelevant to the experience.

Yes, science is measured by standards, but even these standards themselves must face ongoing scrutiny. Naked belief (no matter how unified) is relegated to superstition by the scientific process.

I think attempting to scientifically measure kundalini might yield great rewards. I know that scientifically measuring the effects of psychedelics have already yielded great benefits in the areas of PTSD, severe anxiety, and end of life care, just to name but a few.

However, it would seem presumptuous to attempt to ascertain the effects of psychedelics on the conjunction of physical experiences known as kundalini until a more specific understanding of tangible factors that lead to the kundalini occurrence is verified.

#100

Suhas,

Always enjoy your thoughtful posts my friend. You’re insights are always very bright and well said.

[I]“In my sleep, I dream of being awake.”[/I]

To me the question “why” is merely a rhetorical distraction and has no value at all. It’s like asking…“Why do you want to wake up?”

Why do we desire anything? What’s more important is, will any answer make a difference? Most likely not. because we know that desire has nothing to do with its object.

siva

#101

[QUOTE=DNAch;78241]Should there not be some verifiable commonality in which the physical experiences referred to as kundalini are elicited and predicted? [/QUOTE]

DNAch,

When you and I experience the same sunrise, maybe, or if it were math, yes, but it’s not. I don’t say this to sound smart, but it’s a matter of finding the language, which will in some way always and forever be bound to art. It sucks, I know.

We can only do our best.

siva

#102

I am just beginning Yoga, but have ended any inquiry about drugged realities. All psychoactive drugs present an alternative reality, but create diverse version of reality, not a common memorable or repeatable alternative view.

Presently, I am seeing some things as part of my reality that I don’t believe are natural, they are drug artifacts, detrimental, and perhaps terrible.

Drugs are very exciting, but random and foolish. I wanted drugs to enlighten me. They did not. They have never spoken a credible truth to me, not peyote buttons, not psilocybin mushrooms, not LSD.

At one point LSD struck me blind, but the color of the blindness was not black but orange. Thank God it passed. I blame mushrooms for a critical distraction I must bear sometimes while speaking to people. Drugs can destroy your mind.

#103

[QUOTE=siva;78198]DNAch,

What? LOL

I have never read a more ridiculous interpretation of kundalini in all my life. Where did you get this? No offense, but it’s completed deluded and has nothing to do with either the anatomy or the phenomena, both of which have nothing to do with faith.

[B]Kundalini is not of the mind or heart, but of the body.[/B] No drug will make ha and tha come together. Absolutely nothing to do with hallucination. It has to be made to come together, bound and then lifted only with the most vigilant strength and discipline, and that’s over a extended period of time. Partial awakening is possible by accident, through shaktipat, or physical trauma of some type, but it’s fleeting and is not the controlled and balanced union that causes kundalini (or the concerted action of ha and tha, rather than alternating?) to first center in sushumna and then rise in a way that is directed. That takes not drugs or spontaneity, or wishing or faith, but mastery, skill, and more hard work than 99% of people frankly, are willing to put into it.

Sorry for the bad news. The good news is, it’s real for the lucky ones, although you still have to go to work and pay your bills.

Good luck with this one.

siva[/QUOTE]

Hello again siva, I was searching for ‘skeptic’ and this was one of the threads that came up. I’m puzzled by your view of kundalini as ‘of the body’. Do I take this to mean physical, of the same (and only) realm of existence that science acknowledges and measures?

If so, why do you say almost in the next breath:

Science is limited to the instrument with which you measure your outcome. No?
Peer reviews? So, not until all ones peers are unified in their “belief” can we call it science? We can hope that might happen someday, but a peer review of kundalini masters?

Is there some kind of ‘body’ you’re talking about that is unavailable to science? The point about peer review is not that everybody has to believe the same thing - it is to overthrow the influence of belief with hard facts measured from physical properties of the world, in this case, the world that science has so far detected as the sum total of ‘body’. These facts then may cause the scientific world to form the same belief (or ‘theory’, as we call it).

Can science measure kundalini - supposedly a mindblowing amount of energy or power - or not? If not, is that because it’s not ‘body’, or because you consider there to be some other type - a ‘subtle body’?

If it is ‘subtle body’ (undetectable by science), is that only to be found in one’s subjective experience? Do we look in vain for it from the ‘outside’ and must accept that it will always remain something subjectively known?

Then, if that’s true, how does that not make it something usually called ‘of the mind’?

Incidentally, brief googlings seem to indicate kundalini is often considered very much of the spirit - even a goddess, the energy behind creation or the spiritual entity that makes the formless take form. Are these interpretations wrong?

#104

Kundalini is basic a tantrik name for the Moolaprakriti field of Samkhya-Yoga or quantum field. In modern language we call it zero point energy field. It is called zero point, because at absolute zero temperatures, there is predicted an infinite energy and which is also the same as the energy that is predicted to exist in a vacuum, known as vacuum energy. The vacuum energy calculated to be within a vacuum of space the area of a cup is said to be enough to boil all the oceans on the planet. In other words it is a very powerful energy. However, we do not know how to tap this energy or even whether it is possible to tap this energy at all, but some phenomena we witness maybe explainable as vacuum energy extraction such as sonoluminescence. In Yoga it is purported this universal foundation of energy(Shakti) can be awakened within the the human body itself and at the base/root chakta this energy appears. Is this true? Although the existence of ZPE/vacuum energy is predicted by Samkhya and quantum field theory, that it actually exists within the human body is a Tantric contribution. Tantra is like anatomy it is not theoretical, but practical. If the Tantriks are saying that according to their observations of the anatomy of the body this energy field does exist in the human body, then we either believe them or we don’t. I would say considering it is reported commonly and even in Western psychology it was recognized as a syndrome(Kundalini syndrome) it is actually a phenomenon that exists.

#105

drugs can give you only experiences… can help if you have serious purpose to use it in some aspects of your temperament… or can be very disaster to your development… its very particular from person to person

but real enlightment only depend of you… if you have experiences using drugs and feel energy on kundalini… thats not the real awekening, drugs leads sometime to boghi samadhi

ganja opium and stramonium may help if you have some experienced guide guru aushadhi … but thats inst for everybody… dont think you are special cause most cases people only fool themselfs using drugs… be aware the best yogis dont use any mind alterators

#106

Who knows kundalini. Ha.

But reverse apana. And their are physical signs. Subliminate sexual fluid/energy and their are physiological changes.

Kundalini having an effect on the mind and body can be tested.

Lots dosnt superstition and indoctrinated beliefs going around.

Reverse…apana…and thus…is kundalini…apana is not the spine;p

The Chinese know more about kundalini then yoga. They talk about reversal of apana all the time. But! Samadhi. They explain samadhi like ah backwater Hooker explains physics. Go to Chinese for kundalini. Yoga for samadhi. Lmao. They complement eachother and teach the same the
Same phenomenons

#107

What do the Chinese say about Kundalini?

Just a question, don’t take offense, but is English your first language?

#108

Yes sir.
English is my first language.
Although apperently I have an interesting way of speaking.
It is most often mistaken for an accent.

In essence. I apologize for the bad grammar. :stuck_out_tongue:
no offense taken good sir. :).

They Chinese don’t call it kundalini for one.
Lol.
In such literature they speak of samadhi in a very subjective unscientific way.
when it comes to kundalini. It’s simple. Reverse apana!
Urethra/bladder/kidneys: this is the apana that must be reversed.

I can give personal testimony.
Unfortunately I cannot explain this medical/physiological wise.
decarbonization of the blood “breath energy” is the only part I can explain in medical terms.

Microcosmic orbit.spinal breathing. Mula bandah and Maha bandah. Vajroli. These are all poor attempts to reverse apana.

I am currently working on a new theory. I am testing as we speak.
Testing is composed of practicing a method. Observing results. If results are promising. Then more testing is done. For results must be repeatable.
I search not blindly. I have a large testimony.
I care not for belief. Only analytical, logical deduction can yeild a solid efficient method.
I tell you now. The path is quick. Even for a man in heavy darkness. :wink:

I understand much I have explained is personal testimony.

Research Chinese literature. It mirrors yoga’s core. For their cores are one in the same. " Shiva shakt/samadhi kundalini/mind body.

#109

Google "rexresearch secret of the golden flower"
it is a good text as long as commentary is ignored.

The Huiming Jing is also a good text.

Unfortunately. Both of these texts contain jewels among thorns.
truth among fallacy.
good information among trash.
So read with great reserve please.
I disagree with much in these texts.

#110

Dont read the commentaries!
Horrible horrible Misdirection.

Parenthesis and brackets. Avoid the nonsense written within them.

#111

every knowledge from china is borred from india… want to know it for real, go for the original roots…

and avoid western new age ‘kundalini’ cause its very very diferent…

#112

All I was saying is Chinese literature expands upon the reversal of apana nicely.

Samadhi.
Reversal of apana.
sexual sublimination.
Energy of breath.

If you can do ^this.
your golden :wink:

Yes?
No?
I find you interesting Ji