Quest for clarity: Omniscience

In “interconnectedness description” a state of the system in the future is a function of the whole state in the past - and there may be no clear cause-effect dependencies defined on isolated elements of the system.

Yes, and that is exactly my point. As everything is completely interconnected, it is difficult for the mind to think in what way things are completely interconnected. In the causal plane one can become aware of some of these interconnections like following a network.

The meaning of a poem would come under mental content. Patanjali describes how we can know the meaning of any language by samayama(perfect conscious control) on hearing the words of any language. Again, this is possible because you are accessing pure information at the causal plane.

As regards to your earlier question as to how can know the relationships between things.
The simple answer to this is the vibrational changes it brings about in you which becomes very clear to somebody who is sensitive to vibrational changes. This is once again connected to the causal plane because this is where all the guna activity is taking place. This is how the ancient spiritual scientists knew for example why changes in the phase of the moon or the suns cycles, elicpses and and positions of plants had direct affects on our moods, thoughts etc.

It is clear this kind of sensivity is present with us. Even animals for example can detect when an earthquake is about to happen long before we find out. This is because of their vibrational senstivity. Every event that takes place in the substratum of space is producing a vibration. Some are simply too subtle and minute for us to make out. However, Patanjali is clear that when your consciousness reaches a state of acute awareness, you can even make out these vibrations. So you will be able to catch the thought of somebody thinking a thought on the other side of the room. I actually knew somebody who claimed he did that, but later stop using this ability and could never do it again, and he was pretty reliable.

[B][I]YOGIADAM
How does that make sense?? You said ‘I have no religion’ ‘It is the ultimate religion’ That’s like saying ‘I have no food’ ‘I have the best food’

You can see the contradiction, can’t you??
[/I][/B]

This is what was said: “I have no religion. All religions are mine. Yoga is the culmination of religion. It is the ultimate religion.”

This is so becasue I do not cling to the external forms.
I use the science of knowing…which is yoga.
As so should you.
As so should everyone.

Stop all this trying to find fault.
The Intellect is a trap until it’s been transcended.
Once transcended the intellect is a good friend.

It is transcended through the yogas.

Your buddhist practices are Yogic in nature… Special insight is analysis and discrimination which is an element of Jnana and raja Yoga.

Calm abiding is the development of meditative concentration which is an element of Raja Yoga/Dhyana Yoga (royal, shining)

Different Techniques. But all same.

Buddhist system is good system. I like. Originally it cut out all the fluff. Thats what Buddha Did. Cut out the fluff. Then as it migrated to Tibet, through thier culture some of their culture got put in in various places. Still good.
I like the fluff. Adds good flavor. But I know its fluff. Yoga is infinitely flexible. Whatever the cultural form it can wear. Strip away all the external fluff and you have yoga. Which is the science of knowing.

[QUOTE=The Scales;33605] I use the science of knowing…which is yoga. As so should you. As so should everyone.

Stop all this trying to find fault. [/QUOTE]

I’m perfectly happy with modern science and I’m not changing my views on that.

I’m certainly not trying to find fault. I’m merely giving my opinion, as are you.

Regardless of things I might say, and even the way I say them, I do respect your right to believe what you want, and I would even be happy to fight for your right to believe what you do…

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;33606]I’m perfectly happy with modern science and I’m not changing my views on that.

I’m certainly not trying to find fault. I’m merely giving my opinion, as are you.

Regardless of things I might say, and even the way I say them, I do respect your right to believe what you want, and I would even be happy to fight for your right to believe what you do…[/QUOTE]

There you go again with your catch phrases.

It’s not belief. Its not opinion.

It is hopeless to try and change your mind. I’m not trying to change your mind. Can’t be done.

You have to change your mind. This is done only through the yogas you are practicing. Keep going.

[QUOTE=The Scales;33608]It is hopeless to try and change your mind. You have to change your mind. [/QUOTE]

Why are you so concerned about my opinions, and wanting to change them? Are you a control freak? I DON’T have to change my mind for shit. I’m happy, I’m not changing, and you’ll just have to get over it.:D:D:D

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;33609]Why are you so concerned about my opinions, and wanting to change them? Are you a control freak? I DON’T have to change my mind for shit. I’m happy, I’m not changing, and you’ll just have to get over it.:D:D:D[/QUOTE]

My concern is for your benefit. Yoga is beneficial. Your view will naturally change through your practice.

It will go from asatya to satya.

“Lead me from the Unreal to the Real;
Lead me from darkness to light;
Lead me from death to immortality.”

  • Brihadaranyaka Upanishad.

The End.

[QUOTE=The Scales;33612]My concern is for your benefit. Yoga is beneficial. Your view will naturally change through your practice.[/QUOTE]

I could just as easily say, that if you went to school and leant a bit of real science, then you would natural change… I’ll tell you one thing, yourself (and another person’s) ‘high horse’ ‘know it all approach’ attitude, has turned myself, and possibly other people, off the traditional side of Yoga. After 4 days on this forum, I’m beginning to think Yoga is just a bloody stretching program with f@#k all else to offer.

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;33613]I could just as easily say, that if you went to school and leant a bit of real science, then you would natural change… I’ll tell you one thing, yourself (and another person’s) ‘high horse’ ‘know it all approach’ attitude, has turned myself, and possibly other people, off the traditional side of Yoga. After 4 days on this forum, I’m beginning to think Yoga is just a bloody stretching program with f@#k all else to offer.[/QUOTE]

I know what you feel. I’m often struggling to remember that such people did not create yoga or other spiritual/cultural traditions. They just identify with it, project all ugly stuff around (e.g. on faith as something sinful as opposed to science) and begin spreading conflict and judgement. But at the end of the day we have to remember what we really want. Why we are here. What we are looking for. Are we here to express our frustrations and doubts? Will we allow such people and our reactions to prevent us from learning and benefiting?

Luckily there are people here who through single post can restore all my enthusiasm and interest in yoga.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33603] The meaning of a poem would come under mental content. Patanjali describes how we can know the meaning of any language by samayama(perfect conscious control) on hearing the words of any language. Again, this is possible because you are accessing pure information at the causal plane.[/QUOTE]

This is new to me. Do you remember location of this description in Patanjali work?

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33603] As regards to your earlier question as to how can know the relationships between things.
The simple answer to this is the vibrational changes it brings about in you which becomes very clear to somebody who is sensitive to vibrational changes. This is once again connected to the causal plane because this is where all the guna activity is taking place. This is how the ancient spiritual scientists knew for example why changes in the phase of the moon or the suns cycles, elicpses and and positions of plants had direct affects on our moods, thoughts etc. [/QUOTE]

So how the information exists in this causal plane? Is it a substance? State of the causal “matter” (type of the vibration)? That would clarify a bit to me because I can’t see how this ‘infinite’ amount of information could be stored (infinite because if it would include information about all possible relationships between all possible properties of the all subsets of world). It would be incredibly huge and confusing “library”. Then not even the access would be achievement but rather ability to locate relevant information!

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;33613]I could just as easily say, that if you went to school and leant a bit of real science, then you would natural change… I’ll tell you one thing, yourself (and another person’s) ‘high horse’ ‘know it all approach’ attitude, has turned myself, and possibly other people, off the traditional side of Yoga. After 4 days on this forum, I’m beginning to think Yoga is just a bloody stretching program with f@#k all else to offer.[/QUOTE]

Its not attitude. Its the truth. Its not high horse. It’s what is. My positon is what it is because I’ve done what needs done. You haven’t yet. YET? Get it? Until you’ve done it you have no clue. No essential differnce between us. All same. I don’t coddle egos. Through your own practice you will come to the truth. So easy. So Simple.

Why argue? When it comes to the yoga no need to argue. Thats why the position is what it is. I keep hitting you in the head with the rocks. You stare blankly. You fall down the slide. You come back to get hit in the head with more rocks.
Fall down the slide again. Come back up get hit in the head with more rocks. Fall down the slide again. More rocks. You stare blankly. Fall down the slide again. and again, and again, and again…

Natural Evolution is so slow… So many lives. So many deaths. So much pain.

Yoga solves all this. Shortcut.

Useless to argue with a logician who is in the dark. You’ll see. Then you’ll one day thank me. Maybe not to my face nor say it , but within your being.

Your welcome.

[B]My definition of God?[/B]

THAT which makes all this possible.

THAT is knowable.

Yoga is the only reliable method.

Many yogas there are but at the end of the yogas…all same.

[QUOTE=The Scales;33616]Its not attitude. Its the truth. Its not high horse. It’s what is. My positon is what it is because I’ve done what needs done.[/QUOTE]

I’m so glad most people don’t go around talking like this… Ok so you are enlightened, you are God. Congratulations on the God thing. You enjoy being God, and just let me be a normal human OK? Thanks

[QUOTE=Pawel;33614]Are we here to express our frustrations and doubts? Will we allow such people and our reactions to prevent us from learning and benefiting?

Luckily there are people here who through single post can restore all my enthusiasm and interest in yoga.[/QUOTE]

Yeah your right. I’m new to Yoga and a ‘spiritual’ path. I used to be a very argumentative atheist (probably still am). It’s hard to break away from that. Especially when some people can be so condescending and righteous. My family is full of Christians, so I should be used to this type of thinking.

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;33626]I’m so glad most people don’t go around talking like this… Ok so you are enlightened, you are God. Congratulations on the God thing. You enjoy being God, and just let me be a normal human OK? Thanks[/QUOTE]

your welcome.

[QUOTE=The Scales;33633]your welcome.[/QUOTE]

Lol, I’m glad you can joke about this. You can see how I might get the impression that some people are seemingly making claims of being an all knowing god, can’t you? It would be a hilarious claim. I might as well make the claim that I’m a Unicorn lol

You can be an all knowing god if you wish.

Surya sure as hell is trying…it appears.

Your on the good way - you keep going with what your doing.

I understand the Christianity thing… The Religion is quite prevalent here in the States.

[QUOTE=The Scales;33756]You can be an all knowing god if you wish[/QUOTE]

Ok, fair enough. I can appreciate that that is true for you, but I can’t except that idea. We can happily disagree on this issue.

[QUOTE=The Scales;33585]
[B]I absolutely … positively … 100% know. [/B]

I know because I’ve seen. Simple as that.[/QUOTE]

Now I’m curious. What exactly have you seen? I’m not trying to be snarky, I really want to know. And I hope the experience transcends the ‘I have seen a butterfly with pretty wings’ descriptive.

Well if my eyes and mind and brain are relatively clean I can see through the maya.

Theres more but thats all i’m giving out.

[QUOTE=Hubert;33308]Omniscience is relative. I am omniscient regarding the files on my computer, placed in my personal folders. Ask me what’s in the Windows folder, and you lost me.

Another guy is omniscient about all phenomena on planet Earth. Yet, he is lost when he is inquired about things what are outside our solar system.

Some might have galactic consciusness … but still not having a universal one.

Ok … where do we stop ?[/QUOTE]

Nice thought. It never stops, at least a ‘never’ as it is apparent to us.

As the God principle goes - we are like the blind touching and grabbing at parts of the elephant and declaring theirs is the description of what the animal is, when in fact it is something altogether different while having all the qualities we wage wars about.

Is there an omniscient plane beyond that, I wonder.