Religious pluralism vs Religious intolerance

Spirituality Religion
#16

[QUOTE=Mokshda;53236]I live in multi ethnic country. Last week I attended a funeral of a Christian colleague in a catholic church(though I am Hindu by birth and faith). The priest said something that really caught my attention - “If I have to die in order to live, Oh Lord I surrender myself in your hands.” This reminded me of the concept of reincarnation and Ishwara Pranidhana!!! which many Christians will reject.

Basically, I think all religions teach the same concepts but because of inferiority complex, many of us think that the religion they practice is the best and they fail to see beyond the verses. It may be also that the preachers have deliberately misinterpreted the verses to divide and rule! Who knows??

Anyway, we Hindus respect other religions because we understand somewhere that it is because of their bad karma that they are not born Hindus!!!

Sorry if anyone has been offended with what I said and rest assured it is not intentional.

Humbly submitted.

Om Shanti.[/QUOTE]

And that is why Christianity and Islam must perish. They sanction ignorance, intolerance, hatred, bigotry, willful ignorance, killing, subjugation, and so forth.

There is nothing good in these religions. If you strip away the organized religion, all you have remaining are clich?d ideals that appear in every single religion and philosophy. It will be of no great loss to the world to see these religions destroyed once and for all.

#17

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;53210]…

From my perspective Christianity and Islam are enemies of Hindus. Even though we afford Christians and Muslims the right to practice their religion how they deem fit, they do not afford us the same rights. Humilate, slander, destroy our temples and even kill us.[/QUOTE]

They ARE the enemies of Hindus.

We Hindus should never allow these mlecchas to practice their religion as they see fit, for that, in effect, is an indirect sanction to convert and kill us kaffirs/pagans.

#18

This is what makes the difference between a religion that simply has certain beliefs, which maybe wrong, but a religiously pluralistic ethic allows these religions to be wrong, and a religion that is demonic. As Krishna calls it in the Gita.

For aregion to institutionalize the act of going out there and humilating, slandering, maiming, killing, and conspiring against another religion and that itself is sanctioned in the religious texts itself, then that is clearly demonic. Christianity and Islam, responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths of human beings, are thereby demonic religions. This is why I am finding it very difficult to be pluralistic towards them.

If we were not politically correct, we would all recognise the Abrahamic religions are the core reason for the darkness, death and destruction that has fallen on this planet. In the future, when scholars will not have to be politically correct, they will identify it as the core reason for why spirituality fell on this planet and the immense suffering humans had to go through.

#19

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;53266]This is what makes the difference between a religion that simply has certain beliefs, which maybe wrong, but a religiously pluralistic ethic allows these religions to be wrong, and a religion that is demonic. As Krishna calls it in the Gita.

For a religion to institutionalize the act of going out there and humilating, slandering, maiming, killing, and conspiring against another religion and that itself is sanctioned in the religious texts itself, then that is clearly demonic. Christianity and Islam, responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths of human beings, are thereby demonic religions. This is why I am finding it very difficult to be pluralistic towards them.

If we were not politically correct, we would all recognise the Abrahamic religions are the core reason for the darkness, death and destruction that has fallen on this planet. In the future, when scholars will not have to be politically correct, they will identify it as the core reason for why spirituality fell on this planet and the immense suffering humans had to go through.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. It is saddening that the whole does not understand this fact.

When it comes down to the nuts and bolts, it is these politically correct fools who are the evil ones, allowing demonic and harmful ideologies to thrive, thus propagating intolerance, misery, oppression, and hatred to subsequent generations.

#20

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;53101]This debate needs to be had, as this has been the common theme of all the discussions we have had so far. I have relaxed in my views recently, I have accepted the rising spirituality in the West and the superficiality of calling this spirituality Hinduism. Even though, it is obvious for everyone to see it is identical to Hinduism. I have even accepted that some Christians are showing signs of improvement, by moving to more Gnostic interpretations of Christianity.

I have recently even started to drop my insistance on calling Yoga/Vedanta/Ayurveda Hinduism, and have no problem calling it world spirituality. I even started a thread on ancient science and technology, where the majority of my discussion was not Hindu greatness, but the greatness of the pyramids. I am starting to accept the possibility that there was indeed a common spiritual heritage on his planet going back to extreme antiquity, and India has merely preserved this tradition the best. Rather than condemning this pastor, the pastor was instead given a sympathetic response and the interviewer in the video was accused of misrepresenting him.

But despite myself(and perhaps N as well recently) being so accomodating, so open minded and flexible in changing our opinions, I have seen absolutely no concession from the opposite camp. What really shocked me right now in “Is the West becoming more spiritual” is the lack of outrage to an outrageous comment by a Christian MP to a Hindu guru, on his own turf - “You bloody Indian dog” This harks back to the past, when I showed how a major Indian pastor a member of a massive Church organization, wrote a book demonizing Hinduism. I have shown evidence of Christian missionary activity against Hindus in India and the demonization of its religion.

The more I try to relax in my views, something else comes along, and makes me rethink my position again. Why should we be tolerant and religious pluralistic, but Christianity and Islam can be intolerant and fundamentalist, and to point out how pervasive and deeply entrenched this is invites condemnation from the PC brigade. Such an attitude reeks of double standards and hypocrisy.[/QUOTE]

One person said this, yes?

#21

[QUOTE=kareng;53282]One person said this, yes?[/QUOTE]

Nope. Most Christians do.

Here, let me provide you a linky that can let you explore the demonic nature of Christians and the quantity of these kinds of Christians.

WARNING: Its a LOT to wade through!

#22

I have had a quick good look and what I see are arguments for and against…so here is one I pulled out and there are others…

Some years ago I visited a Hindu temple. I stood before the altar area staring in silent amazement at the multitude of images of various deities, some of them very bizarre indeed. I had been there several minutes when I heard a gentle voice behind me say “God is One.” I turned to meet the pundit or priest of the temple. As he escorted me around the altar area he explained that while God is One, we in our finitude are unable to comprehend the fullness of God in a single “take”. Each one of the “deities” before us was simply a different manifestation of God’s Oneness. We Christians have done much the same with our trinity theory.

Now then…

#23

[QUOTE=kareng;53287]I have had a quick good look and what I see are arguments for and against…so here is one I pulled out and there are others…

Some years ago I visited a Hindu temple. I stood before the altar area staring in silent amazement at the multitude of images of various deities, some of them very bizarre indeed. I had been there several minutes when I heard a gentle voice behind me say “God is One.” I turned to meet the pundit or priest of the temple. As he escorted me around the altar area he explained that while God is One, we in our finitude are unable to comprehend the fullness of God in a single “take”. Each one of the “deities” before us was simply a different manifestation of God’s Oneness. We Christians have done much the same with our trinity theory.

Now then…[/QUOTE]

Ah, but you left out the other bashing done by Christians. Predictable.

Remind me why you can’t visit India again?

I even gave Thomas this exact link, and he had to stop looking because of all the Catholicism bashing going on.

And what was it you wanted to talk to me about? Send me a PM.

#24

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;53289]Ah, but you left out the other bashing done by Christians. Predictable.

Remind me why you can’t visit India again?

I even gave Thomas this exact link, and he had to stop looking because of all the Catholicism bashing going on.

And what was it you wanted to talk to me about? Send me a PM.[/QUOTE]

Well of course I’m being predictable. Your point was bashing of Hindus on the site, what about the rest…?

I can visit India now my father is dead.

And why are you in the West, remind me will you, while you breath in our air…

#25

[QUOTE=kareng;53290]Well of course I’m being predictable. Your point was bashing of Hindus on the site, what about the rest…?

I can visit India now my father is dead.

And why are you in the West, remind me will you, while you breath in our air…[/QUOTE]

What about it? Your quote was from an Indian defending Hinduism. How is that even surprising? Why didn’t you quote the rest of the juicy statements posted by the bigots and supremacists on the forums?

So I can use it and then throw it away just as they did to India and the rest of the world.

Your air? I find this laughable. Wind is simply the result of a difference in pressure. Air belongs to no-one.

#26

[QUOTE=kareng;53287]I have had a quick good look and what I see are arguments for and against…so here is one I pulled out and there are others…

Some years ago I visited a Hindu temple. I stood before the altar area staring in silent amazement at the multitude of images of various deities, some of them very bizarre indeed. I had been there several minutes when I heard a gentle voice behind me say “God is One.” I turned to meet the pundit or priest of the temple. As he escorted me around the altar area he explained that while God is One, we in our finitude are unable to comprehend the fullness of God in a single “take”. Each one of the “deities” before us was simply a different manifestation of God’s Oneness. We Christians have done much the same with our trinity theory.

Now then…[/QUOTE]

I think you are missing the point, we Hindus are allowing you to worship god as you want, but we want the same rights in return of course as well. Unfortunately, as has been discussed in this thread, Hindus are not afforded the same rights by Christians and Muslims, and very powerful Chrisitian and Muslim organizations are bent on destroying us. And this is what has happened to us historically as well.

I am afraid that the very fact that this is told in the scripture itself really makes it hard for us Hindus to not consider Christianity and Islam our enemy.

#27

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;53240]And that is why Christianity and Islam must perish. They sanction ignorance, intolerance, hatred, bigotry, willful ignorance, killing, subjugation, and so forth.

There is nothing good in these religions. If you strip away the organized religion, all you have remaining are clich?d ideals that appear in every single religion and philosophy. It will be of no great loss to the world to see these religions destroyed once and for all.[/QUOTE]
wow…and how is this any different from what you’ve been accusing the “abrahamic religions” of doing to your religion?? ya’ know, there’s a single word that is often used to describe this type of behaviour, :rolleyes:. you’ve basically proven that you’re no different than they are.

#28

[QUOTE=vata07;53441]wow…and how is this any different from what you’ve been accusing the “abrahamic religions” of doing to your religion?? ya’ know, there’s a single word that is often used to describe this type of behaviour, :rolleyes:. you’ve basically proven that you’re no different than they are.[/QUOTE]

What he has done is pointed out a fact about Abrahamic religions.

This leaves Hindus with two options:

  1. Continue to promote the message of religious pluralism, all religions lead to the same goal and reason with the fundamentalists. Which is what Hindus since the first invasion of Hindu soil by the Muslims, then the Christians later - did. Still, the message has fallen on deaf ears. Hindus are still getting attacked daily.

  2. Revolution. If Muslims and Christians cannot respect the right for a Hindu to practice their own religion, they will have to prepare themselves for Hindu anger.

Again, I am still not missing the irony that nobody has turned their criticisms to the Abrahamic religions, and are very quick to condemn Hindus and defend Abrahamic religions. Why? Why defend religions which spread hate, intolerance, violence, religious wars?

By the way another thing I don’t understand is why do people cry foul at anti semticism, but barely bat an eye lid to anti-Hindu things. What is going on? Is it ok to to discriminate against one people, but not another?

#29

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;53442]Again, I am still not missing the irony that nobody has turned their criticisms to the Abrahamic religions, and are very quick to condemn Hindus and defend Abrahamic religions. Why? Why defend religions which spread hate, intolerance, violence, religious wars?[/QUOTE]
hey i originally a part of one of the “abrahamic religions” and i’ll be the first to critisize them, which is why i have basically left. i believe that all paths are leading to the same thing and what bothered me about my “religion” is the refusal to acknowledge this. intolerance is in no way an attribute of what i would consider a “loving God” (so i guess i’m an unorthodox christian, pseudo-christian, or just not really christian then, :p). either way what got me to respond was the obvious hypocrisy (and again, i understand your anger but still…). in responding in a similar manner to those persecuting you, you’ve basically lowered yourself to their level which in my opinion proves you’re no better than they are.

#30

…oh, and by my screen name i hope you can guess that i’m pretty tolerant and open minded to eastern philosophy/science, ;).

#31

The intentions are different for the violence

  1. The Christians and Muslims are being violent to us because they cannot respect our right to practice our religion
  2. Hindus, are taking up violence to defend our right to practice our religion.

A very simple thing has to happen, and it is not too much to ask for, I am sure you would agree. We wants Christians and Muslims to respect our right to practice our religion.

Hindus are not just facing verbal prejudice, but real physical and institutionalized persectuion, plots to destroy India, random bombings on Hindu, corrupt Christian and Muslim politicians using religious politics to lobby Christian and Muslim support, creating an us vs them situation. Allowing illegal immigrants in to artificially increase the Muslim population to destabalize India. As well, outright, unfair government policies which discriminate against Hindus. There are hunreds of Kashmiri Hindu pundits which are facing genocide in Pakistan occupied Kashmir. Hindus in Islamic countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malasiya cannot practice their religion in peace.

In the West we face a different kind of enemy, Western academia. That negate our entire civilisations history and severely distort our heritage or publish exaggerated stories of evils in our country. These Western academics are in charge of subjects like Indology, Sanskrit, Indian philosophy, Hindu studies, and therefore control basically what is published in prestigious and influencial papers. They also chair the Indian education system.

So we Hindus have a huge mountain of persecution to rise up against. This persecution needs to stop. If it does not stop by peaceful means, then Christians and Muslims are going to face bottled up Hindu anger going 1400 years. It is not going to be pretty.

Yes, I recognised your screen name. My dosha is in fact Vata.

#32

[QUOTE=vata07;53447]hey i originally a part of one of the “abrahamic religions” and i’ll be the first to critisize them, which is why i have basically left. i believe that all paths are leading to the same thing and what bothered me about my “religion” is the refusal to acknowledge this. [B] intolerance is in no way an attribute of what i would consider a “loving God” (so i guess i’m an unorthodox christian, pseudo-christian, or just not really christian then, :p). [/B] either way what got me to respond was the obvious hypocrisy (and again, i understand your anger but still…). in responding in a similar manner to those persecuting you, you’ve basically lowered yourself to their level which in my opinion proves you’re no better than they are.[/QUOTE]

Some things. The bold Sparked a thought.

Undermine their logic. Truth stands while untruth will [I]eventually[/I] crumble.
This ‘undermining’ of their logic can be a fun game. Somewhere in a thread on these forums I basically underminded one of the dogmatic tennents of the whole of christendom…something to do with taking things on ‘faith’ which is a big thing in the christian religion.

Point out the Underlying Unities.

Speak of [I]their[/I] Yogas and encourage them in the pursuit of deeper understanding. The jews should look into Kabballah. The Muslims into the Sufis. The Christians into the gnosis.

Encourage the maintenance of an open mind and a more poetic reading of scripture.

Encourage not only study of their own but also cross pollination amongst the systems.

Also one must remember not everyone is at the same level.

Also one must remember that this world is not simply left to its own devices totally unattended. . .

#33

[QUOTE=vata07;53447]hey i originally a part of one of the “abrahamic religions” and i’ll be the first to critisize them, which is why i have basically left. i believe that all paths are leading to the same thing and what bothered me about my “religion” is the refusal to acknowledge this. intolerance is in no way an attribute of what i would consider a “loving God” (so i guess i’m an unorthodox christian, pseudo-christian, or just not really christian then, :p). either way what got me to respond was the obvious hypocrisy (and again, i understand your anger but still…). in responding in a similar manner to those persecuting you, you’ve basically lowered yourself to their level which in my opinion proves you’re no better than they are.[/QUOTE]

Just because all paths lead to the same end does not necessarily mean that the paths themselves are equal. Quite the opposite.

In Islam and Christianity, the paths are ridiculously long and difficult…filled with detours, unpaved roads, and fog/mist.

And these paths attempt to destroy the paths of others…they seek to create impassable chasms in the paths of other religions, with the only way across being their roads…that is why these ways must be broken up to let the trees and streams there flourish once again.

#34

[QUOTE=vata07;53441]wow…and how is this any different from what you’ve been accusing the “abrahamic religions” of doing to your religion?? ya’ know, there’s a single word that is often used to describe this type of behaviour, :rolleyes:. you’ve basically proven that you’re no different than they are.[/QUOTE]

So intellectually fighting against intolerance is also intolerance? I don’t find it amazing that you once subscribed to these demonic religions, since you seem to have inherited its bad logic.

#35

[QUOTE=vata07;53447]hey i originally a part of one of the “abrahamic religions” and i’ll be the first to critisize them, which is why i have basically left. i believe that all paths are leading to the same thing and what bothered me about my “religion” is the refusal to acknowledge this. intolerance is in no way an attribute of what i would consider a “loving God” (so i guess i’m an unorthodox christian, pseudo-christian, or just not really christian then, :p). either way what got me to respond was the obvious hypocrisy (and again, i understand your anger but still…). in responding in a similar manner to those persecuting you, you’ve basically lowered yourself to their level which in my opinion proves you’re no better than they are.[/QUOTE]

And Surya Deva and I are part of a race and country that

1). Has been murdered, raped, and subjugated by Christians and Muslims for 1000+ years (and still are).
2). That used to hold 22-23% of the world’s GDP but by the time of independence held 1-3%, due to Christian/Muslim raping.
3). Whose people used to be one of the wealthiest people in the world but was then reduced to 90% poverty levels by independence time (the effects are still apparent today), thanks to the rule of British excrement
4). Is run by anti-Hindu Muslims and Christians and is infected with anti-Hindu/Indian propaganda.
5). That is constantly undermined and ridiculed in Western media and academia.

So I think we Indians will be the first and foremost to criticize these religions of the Shaitans.

Once again, intellectually fighting against intolerance is hypocrisy? With your kind of (il)logic, you would be better off being a Christian than whatever you are now.

And tell me something; what avatar of Vishnu/Shiva destroyed evil through peaceful means? What avatar of Vishnu/Shiva ran to the wicked and gave them hugs, kisses, Samosas, Idlis, Pedas, Kaju Katlis, Gulab-Jamun, Pakoda, Murukul, Murmure, Kulfi, Prasadam, Ghee, and what not?

Tell me once you find an answer, cause I, in my entire life of reading the Puranas, have never seen a single case of this.