Religious pluralism vs Religious intolerance

Spirituality Religion
#26

[QUOTE=kareng;53287]I have had a quick good look and what I see are arguments for and against…so here is one I pulled out and there are others…

Some years ago I visited a Hindu temple. I stood before the altar area staring in silent amazement at the multitude of images of various deities, some of them very bizarre indeed. I had been there several minutes when I heard a gentle voice behind me say “God is One.” I turned to meet the pundit or priest of the temple. As he escorted me around the altar area he explained that while God is One, we in our finitude are unable to comprehend the fullness of God in a single “take”. Each one of the “deities” before us was simply a different manifestation of God’s Oneness. We Christians have done much the same with our trinity theory.

Now then…[/QUOTE]

I think you are missing the point, we Hindus are allowing you to worship god as you want, but we want the same rights in return of course as well. Unfortunately, as has been discussed in this thread, Hindus are not afforded the same rights by Christians and Muslims, and very powerful Chrisitian and Muslim organizations are bent on destroying us. And this is what has happened to us historically as well.

I am afraid that the very fact that this is told in the scripture itself really makes it hard for us Hindus to not consider Christianity and Islam our enemy.

#27

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;53240]And that is why Christianity and Islam must perish. They sanction ignorance, intolerance, hatred, bigotry, willful ignorance, killing, subjugation, and so forth.

There is nothing good in these religions. If you strip away the organized religion, all you have remaining are clich?d ideals that appear in every single religion and philosophy. It will be of no great loss to the world to see these religions destroyed once and for all.[/QUOTE]
wow…and how is this any different from what you’ve been accusing the “abrahamic religions” of doing to your religion?? ya’ know, there’s a single word that is often used to describe this type of behaviour, :rolleyes:. you’ve basically proven that you’re no different than they are.

#28

[QUOTE=vata07;53441]wow…and how is this any different from what you’ve been accusing the “abrahamic religions” of doing to your religion?? ya’ know, there’s a single word that is often used to describe this type of behaviour, :rolleyes:. you’ve basically proven that you’re no different than they are.[/QUOTE]

What he has done is pointed out a fact about Abrahamic religions.

This leaves Hindus with two options:

  1. Continue to promote the message of religious pluralism, all religions lead to the same goal and reason with the fundamentalists. Which is what Hindus since the first invasion of Hindu soil by the Muslims, then the Christians later - did. Still, the message has fallen on deaf ears. Hindus are still getting attacked daily.

  2. Revolution. If Muslims and Christians cannot respect the right for a Hindu to practice their own religion, they will have to prepare themselves for Hindu anger.

Again, I am still not missing the irony that nobody has turned their criticisms to the Abrahamic religions, and are very quick to condemn Hindus and defend Abrahamic religions. Why? Why defend religions which spread hate, intolerance, violence, religious wars?

By the way another thing I don’t understand is why do people cry foul at anti semticism, but barely bat an eye lid to anti-Hindu things. What is going on? Is it ok to to discriminate against one people, but not another?

#29

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;53442]Again, I am still not missing the irony that nobody has turned their criticisms to the Abrahamic religions, and are very quick to condemn Hindus and defend Abrahamic religions. Why? Why defend religions which spread hate, intolerance, violence, religious wars?[/QUOTE]
hey i originally a part of one of the “abrahamic religions” and i’ll be the first to critisize them, which is why i have basically left. i believe that all paths are leading to the same thing and what bothered me about my “religion” is the refusal to acknowledge this. intolerance is in no way an attribute of what i would consider a “loving God” (so i guess i’m an unorthodox christian, pseudo-christian, or just not really christian then, :p). either way what got me to respond was the obvious hypocrisy (and again, i understand your anger but still…). in responding in a similar manner to those persecuting you, you’ve basically lowered yourself to their level which in my opinion proves you’re no better than they are.

#30

…oh, and by my screen name i hope you can guess that i’m pretty tolerant and open minded to eastern philosophy/science, ;).

#31

The intentions are different for the violence

  1. The Christians and Muslims are being violent to us because they cannot respect our right to practice our religion
  2. Hindus, are taking up violence to defend our right to practice our religion.

A very simple thing has to happen, and it is not too much to ask for, I am sure you would agree. We wants Christians and Muslims to respect our right to practice our religion.

Hindus are not just facing verbal prejudice, but real physical and institutionalized persectuion, plots to destroy India, random bombings on Hindu, corrupt Christian and Muslim politicians using religious politics to lobby Christian and Muslim support, creating an us vs them situation. Allowing illegal immigrants in to artificially increase the Muslim population to destabalize India. As well, outright, unfair government policies which discriminate against Hindus. There are hunreds of Kashmiri Hindu pundits which are facing genocide in Pakistan occupied Kashmir. Hindus in Islamic countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malasiya cannot practice their religion in peace.

In the West we face a different kind of enemy, Western academia. That negate our entire civilisations history and severely distort our heritage or publish exaggerated stories of evils in our country. These Western academics are in charge of subjects like Indology, Sanskrit, Indian philosophy, Hindu studies, and therefore control basically what is published in prestigious and influencial papers. They also chair the Indian education system.

So we Hindus have a huge mountain of persecution to rise up against. This persecution needs to stop. If it does not stop by peaceful means, then Christians and Muslims are going to face bottled up Hindu anger going 1400 years. It is not going to be pretty.

Yes, I recognised your screen name. My dosha is in fact Vata.

#32

[QUOTE=vata07;53447]hey i originally a part of one of the “abrahamic religions” and i’ll be the first to critisize them, which is why i have basically left. i believe that all paths are leading to the same thing and what bothered me about my “religion” is the refusal to acknowledge this. [B] intolerance is in no way an attribute of what i would consider a “loving God” (so i guess i’m an unorthodox christian, pseudo-christian, or just not really christian then, :p). [/B] either way what got me to respond was the obvious hypocrisy (and again, i understand your anger but still…). in responding in a similar manner to those persecuting you, you’ve basically lowered yourself to their level which in my opinion proves you’re no better than they are.[/QUOTE]

Some things. The bold Sparked a thought.

Undermine their logic. Truth stands while untruth will [I]eventually[/I] crumble.
This ‘undermining’ of their logic can be a fun game. Somewhere in a thread on these forums I basically underminded one of the dogmatic tennents of the whole of christendom…something to do with taking things on ‘faith’ which is a big thing in the christian religion.

Point out the Underlying Unities.

Speak of [I]their[/I] Yogas and encourage them in the pursuit of deeper understanding. The jews should look into Kabballah. The Muslims into the Sufis. The Christians into the gnosis.

Encourage the maintenance of an open mind and a more poetic reading of scripture.

Encourage not only study of their own but also cross pollination amongst the systems.

Also one must remember not everyone is at the same level.

Also one must remember that this world is not simply left to its own devices totally unattended. . .

#33

[QUOTE=vata07;53447]hey i originally a part of one of the “abrahamic religions” and i’ll be the first to critisize them, which is why i have basically left. i believe that all paths are leading to the same thing and what bothered me about my “religion” is the refusal to acknowledge this. intolerance is in no way an attribute of what i would consider a “loving God” (so i guess i’m an unorthodox christian, pseudo-christian, or just not really christian then, :p). either way what got me to respond was the obvious hypocrisy (and again, i understand your anger but still…). in responding in a similar manner to those persecuting you, you’ve basically lowered yourself to their level which in my opinion proves you’re no better than they are.[/QUOTE]

Just because all paths lead to the same end does not necessarily mean that the paths themselves are equal. Quite the opposite.

In Islam and Christianity, the paths are ridiculously long and difficult…filled with detours, unpaved roads, and fog/mist.

And these paths attempt to destroy the paths of others…they seek to create impassable chasms in the paths of other religions, with the only way across being their roads…that is why these ways must be broken up to let the trees and streams there flourish once again.

#34

[QUOTE=vata07;53441]wow…and how is this any different from what you’ve been accusing the “abrahamic religions” of doing to your religion?? ya’ know, there’s a single word that is often used to describe this type of behaviour, :rolleyes:. you’ve basically proven that you’re no different than they are.[/QUOTE]

So intellectually fighting against intolerance is also intolerance? I don’t find it amazing that you once subscribed to these demonic religions, since you seem to have inherited its bad logic.

#35

[QUOTE=vata07;53447]hey i originally a part of one of the “abrahamic religions” and i’ll be the first to critisize them, which is why i have basically left. i believe that all paths are leading to the same thing and what bothered me about my “religion” is the refusal to acknowledge this. intolerance is in no way an attribute of what i would consider a “loving God” (so i guess i’m an unorthodox christian, pseudo-christian, or just not really christian then, :p). either way what got me to respond was the obvious hypocrisy (and again, i understand your anger but still…). in responding in a similar manner to those persecuting you, you’ve basically lowered yourself to their level which in my opinion proves you’re no better than they are.[/QUOTE]

And Surya Deva and I are part of a race and country that

1). Has been murdered, raped, and subjugated by Christians and Muslims for 1000+ years (and still are).
2). That used to hold 22-23% of the world’s GDP but by the time of independence held 1-3%, due to Christian/Muslim raping.
3). Whose people used to be one of the wealthiest people in the world but was then reduced to 90% poverty levels by independence time (the effects are still apparent today), thanks to the rule of British excrement
4). Is run by anti-Hindu Muslims and Christians and is infected with anti-Hindu/Indian propaganda.
5). That is constantly undermined and ridiculed in Western media and academia.

So I think we Indians will be the first and foremost to criticize these religions of the Shaitans.

Once again, intellectually fighting against intolerance is hypocrisy? With your kind of (il)logic, you would be better off being a Christian than whatever you are now.

And tell me something; what avatar of Vishnu/Shiva destroyed evil through peaceful means? What avatar of Vishnu/Shiva ran to the wicked and gave them hugs, kisses, Samosas, Idlis, Pedas, Kaju Katlis, Gulab-Jamun, Pakoda, Murukul, Murmure, Kulfi, Prasadam, Ghee, and what not?

Tell me once you find an answer, cause I, in my entire life of reading the Puranas, have never seen a single case of this.

#36

[QUOTE=The Scales;53452]Some things. The bold Sparked a thought.

Undermine their logic. Truth stands while untruth will [I]eventually[/I] crumble.
This ‘undermining’ of their logic can be a fun game. Somewhere in a thread on these forums I basically underminded one of the dogmatic tennents of the whole of christendom…something to do with taking things on ‘faith’ which is a big thing in the christian religion.

Point out the Underlying Unities.

Speak of [I]their[/I] Yogas and encourage them in the pursuit of deeper understanding. The jews should look into Kabballah. The Muslims into the Sufis. The Christians into the gnosis.

Encourage the maintenance of an open mind and a more poetic reading of scripture.

Encourage not only study of their own but also cross pollination amongst the systems.

Also one must remember not everyone is at the same level.

Also one must remember that this world is not simply left to its own devices totally unattended. . .[/QUOTE]

Well said Scales. I myself used to think this at one point.

However, these religions have contradictory doctrines that will always inculcate an internal, doctrinal, or communal strife if a member chooses to follow an alternate path. It is unfortunate that the most intolerant/ignorant doctrines have come to prevail, diminishing the apparent viability of these alternate paths in the eyes of the majority of practitioners.

And they will not see. They refuse to see. That is why these religions must either go or reform themselves. Since the latter is not possible given the current circumstances and state of the world, the former is the only option left.

Perhaps in the course of the former option, they will come to see the Truth…I hope.

#37

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;53459]And Surya Deva and I are part of a race and country that

1). Has been murdered, raped, and subjugated by Christians and Muslims for 1000+ years (and still are).
2). That used to hold 22-23% of the world’s GDP but by the time of independence held 1-3%, due to Christian/Muslim raping.
3). Whose people used to be one of the wealthiest people in the world but was then reduced to 90% poverty levels by independence time (the effects are still apparent today), thanks to the rule of British excrement
4). Is run by anti-Hindu Muslims and Christians and is infected with anti-Hindu/Indian propaganda.
5). That is constantly undermined and ridiculed in Western media and academia.

So I think we Indians will be the first and foremost to criticize these religions of the Shaitans.

Once again, intellectually fighting against intolerance is hypocrisy? With your kind of (il)logic, you would be better off being a Christian than whatever you are now.

And tell me something; what avatar of Vishnu/Shiva destroyed evil through peaceful means? What avatar of Vishnu/Shiva ran to the wicked and gave them hugs, kisses, Samosas, Idlis, Pedas, Kaju Katlis, Gulab-Jamun, Pakoda, Murukul, Murmure, Kulfi, Prasadam, Ghee, and what not?

Tell me once you find an answer, cause I, in my entire life of reading the Puranas, have never seen a single case of this.[/QUOTE]
blah blah blah…:rolleyes: :rolleyes:… and how much progress do you think you’ve made in your 800+ posts in your “cause” to rid the world of the “abrahamic religions”???

#38

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;53460]Well said Scales. I myself used to think this at one point.

However, these religions have contradictory doctrines that will always inculcate an internal, doctrinal, or communal strife if a member chooses to follow an alternate path. It is unfortunate that the most intolerant/ignorant doctrines have come to prevail, diminishing the apparent viability of these alternate paths in the eyes of the majority of practitioners.

And they will not see. They refuse to see. That is why these religions must either go or reform themselves. Since the latter is not possible given the current circumstances and state of the world, the former is the only option left.

Perhaps in the course of the former option, they will come to see the Truth…I hope.[/QUOTE]

Could you dumb it down a bit for me. I don’t understand what your saying.

#39

[QUOTE=The Scales;53479]Could you dumb it down a bit for me. I don’t understand what your saying.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know if this is sarcasm or not. If it is, then:

“You’ve got a decent intellect…figure it out.”

#40

Fix’d.

#41

Nietzcsche, you really need to stop labelling everyone who makes a critical point against some of the things you say, a Christian or white supremist. It no longer carries any impact, because you use it pretty much on everyone. Even myself recently.

Vata asked a genuine question, what have you achieived in undermining the Abrahamic religions in your 800+ posts here? Have they weakened due to your effort? Are Hindus free of persectution now?

#42

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;53486]I don’t know if this is sarcasm or not. If it is, then:

“You’ve got a decent intellect…figure it out.”[/QUOTE]

I knew you’d say that.

It was in part sarcastic.

However that said -Because you looked down your nose at me after a compliment I didn’t want to spend the time trying to figure out what you were saying - as the presentation of your idea wasn’t apparent to me at first.

Get it?

#43

@Vata07,

Quote:
Originally Posted by vata07
I am a Christian who is pretending to be an admirer of Eastern religions in order to gain converts. I am a white supremacist and intolerant of other religions. Christianity is the only way and all other religions must be destroyed in order to make way for its ascendancy.
Fix’d.

He did the same to me, rewriting my post accusing me of being a white supremacist and intolerant. He got the white part right. He’s young and angry. At some point he will understand not all white people and westerners are bad.

#44

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;53487] I went to the vet’s and got myself Fix’d.[/QUOTE]

Hmmmmmmmmm:confused:

#45

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;53521]Nietzcsche, you really need to stop labelling everyone who makes a critical point against some of the things you say, a Christian or white supremist. It no longer carries any impact, because you use it pretty much on everyone. Even myself recently.

Vata asked a genuine question, what have you achieived in undermining the Abrahamic religions in your 800+ posts here? Have they weakened due to your effort? Are Hindus free of persectution now?[/QUOTE]

He said “blah blah…” in response to my post. A puerile comment to a post he found disagreeable. Therefore, I responded in kind to highlight the childish nature of his post. It was meant to be satire/cynical in nature and not a strawman. I apologize if that wasn’t clear.

What have you achieved in your 2000+ posts here? Raising awareness of course, the same thing I have achieved to various degrees by my 800+ posts. Sure the people here are too politically correct to see reason, but we have at least succeeded in getting these people “riled up” (in the sense of awareness). We have even succeeded in making some of them racist towards Indians, like Flex Penguin. Just look at the offensive statements he spouts about Indians, Hindus, and Hinduism in order to aggravate me and you. You and I have brought out his true nature.

Are the Abrahamic religions weakened due to our efforts? That depends on how you view “change.” We may not have changed the views of most of the people that post and visit here, but we have definitely altered it. Who knows, maybe the idea we implant will come to hold sooner or later. In my book, that is definitely a success.