We are what we do. I don’t look further down the road than my feet can travel that day and I think that’s natural. I started being a vegetarian for health reasons and I suppose after that , " it chose me"; now I’m a vegetarian for social and enviromental reasons and I’m convinced that in a century or two or three, they’ll look back in disgust at the troglodytes we are because of what we do. I do not ask of myself or any other to go out of the path they are on, just that ‘we’ consider doing things as well as we can. Then , if Life is worth its salt, better ways will open at our feet. Like asana, I think ahimsa proceeds in straight lines from your gut to where you can see yourself going, not in absolute lines that that angle off from the information overload in our heads to infinity. Like an artistic English teacher ( attributes because I don’t remember her name ( And Thanks Pandara for remembering mine )) once asked Nicole, " Why are so many of the guys on this forum seem to be having a pee-ing contest ? " It took a while for me to get adjusted to saying Namaste too, but it just keeps getting better and better to say, Namaste
[QUOTE=gentle_yogini;30449]I agree with justwannabe. (I quite enjoyed reading your reply!) 
Vegetarianism/ veganism is only a small part of living without hurting other living beings. I think that a more rounded approach to living while considering our every action on our environment is a better approach.
Starting with food- eating organically and locally as much as possible, as this is better for the earth and the farming community. Even if you eat meat- doing so less frequently and only buying free rang organic, so you are making the best choice for the earth and respecting the animal itself.
Clothing- cotton is such a pesticide laden crop, it’s stripping away at the earth. Read David Suzuki or Adria Vasil to learn more about this. Buy organic cotton clothing, or alternative materials like bamboo and hemp. Try to buy sweat shop free.
Cleaners- make your own cleaners from vinegar and water, better for the environment, less packaging and shipping, cheaper!
I could go on and on… My point is that yes, with yoga many people become more aware of what they eat. Not eating meat anymore is the start of it for some. But it shouldn’t stop there. We should also become aware of what we are wearing, where it came from, it’s impacts, the shampoo we use, the cleaners we use, the paint we use, etc.
Not eating meat but wearing pesticide soaked cotton which is eating away at our earth, and using products full of parabens, which have been shown to cause cancer, etc, doesn’t make sense to me. It’s a much broader picture.
Ps. I have yoga teachers who used to be vegan and now eat meat, I have teachers who have always eaten meat, and I have some who are firm vegan/ vegetarians. They all are equally great teachers.[/QUOTE]
Eating a mixed diet of meat and vegetation is, and has been, fundamental to human existence since our beginning. To insist otherwise is unhealthy and unnatural. To each their own. I will look to the genuine skill of my teachers as a requisite.
It is interesting that Yoga teaches us to be inner-bound, yet unknowingly most of our thinking remains outward-bound. So, the question of being vegetarian, more particularly for the Yoga teachers, has got covered by cruelty to animals, narrow definition of ahinsa, social and ethical contexts, even recipes etc.
There is also a reference of Hatha Yoga being explained by Yoga Sutra and that eating meat carries a guilt that hinders meditation. This argument appeals to our emotional self but is not completely true.
It would be educating to know which sutra directly or even indirectly speaks of ‘guilt’ any time. Yoga Sutra warns against dogmas and does not give any. It tells us how to purify the physical, astral and causal bodies. Various exercises are prescribed to strengthen the respective metabolisms to bring about that cleansing. It is a Yogi’s choice of what, when and how much to eat that will not tax the purification process and ability. Yoga Sutra also maintains that not guilt, but traces of pain itself are imprinted in the meat and get directly transferred to the subtle bodies, again taxing the cleansing process. And finally, at the causal level, the karma effect can be seen as what kills gets killed.
Yoga is a very delicate balancing act. Yama-Niyama can never be regimented; they succeed only when assimilated as a way of life. If you are used to eating meat, not by choice but the way you were brought up and much before you could even think about it, a forced abstaining from it will create deprivation, an equal impediment for meditation. Hence, eating vegetarian food that brings in the least amount of residues should remain a conscious and well cultivated choice of a Yogi and the teacher should be the first to reach there.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;32472]I noticed many using the slippery slope fallacy. That if we are going to become vegetarian then we should also not drive cars, use any modern products, or wash our hands etc. Nope, it does not quite work like this. This is like saying if I steal a 1 penny sweet, then I might as well steal a 10p mini chocolate bar, a ?1 can of coke, a ?100 watch, a ?1000 laptop, ?10,000 car, a ?100,000 business, a ?1,000,000 inheritance of my rich uncle 
.[/QUOTE]
I felt the orignial poster was being very strict in her beliefs so I took it to the extreme on purpose, however in that extreme I still see validity.
personally I have a “yogic” friend who pointed fingers at me because of my water use and many other things I have done in this world, and she says I dont care, however when i told this friend that I have not used Air conditioning in my room for three years, I pee in the yard when possible, etc… she still wants to stick to my lack of worrying about the water on the planet. sometimes people just see a strict viewpoint and do not open up to another viewpoint, and i belive people saying that one should be a vegetarian, then they should just go live in a forest. If eating meet harms us because of the fear that the animal had before death, why would the fear that they have in their breath as we bulldoze the forest not enter us as well, for we eat the air.
sometimes going to extremes can help us see the ridiculousness in our accusation of others, sometimes not.
The fear of the animal gets lodged into its flesh, which we then consume. It is a subtle energy that we cannot see, but it is there. We then consume this and make that negative energy a part of us.
Of course we cannot live absolutely ethically but we sure can strive to live as ethical as is possible. The more ethically we live the better our karma.
I wouldn’t say I’m a carnivore, but certainly an omnivore.
I will never impose my own beliefs upon others, but my personal feeling is that one needs to do what is right for their body. My body needs meat. I believe my body was created to eat both plant matter and vegetable matter, I have grinding teeth (like an herbivore) and I have tearing teeth (like a carnivore). My body feels better when I eat meat. I give thanks for the animals that provide sustenance and continue on.
I know that is not what some folks believe, and also that my belief is unpopular in some circles.
Hope that answers your question sinij.
I think the whole point of Yoga is to transcend our current state of being. So yes we are born with omnivorous body, but we should know better through our spiritual discrimination that inflicting harm on another living being cannot be good. I mean the way we justify the killing of animals can easily be used to justify killing each other, and actually that is exactly what happens. A wise man once said, until we do not stop killing animals, we will not stop killing each other.
Many of those animals we kill I have spent time with and my spirit instantly recognises that they are conscious beings just like I am. They are also capable of feelings like love and even forming relationships. It is henious that we take for granted that killing them is OK and a choice we are entitled to.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;38361]Many of those animals we kill I have spent time with and my spirit instantly recognises that they are conscious beings just like I am. They are also capable of feelings like love and even forming relationships. It is henious that we take for granted that killing them is OK and a choice we are entitled to.[/QUOTE]
so what should a crocodile do? become a vegetarian? if I should feel bad about eating meet then it is only right that a crocodile does too.
also, we say our consciouness, the animals, etc… But isnt the goal of yoga union? meaning one consciousness that is not Neil, Surya Deva, and alix? So again if I should feel bad about eating meat then so should a snake, lizard, cat, etc… for me over the last thee days I have eaten meat once, I craved a hamburger and tried to see if I would rather eat chicken instead, but no, it kept going back to a hamburger so that is what I ate, no guilt, no shame. How long till I eat meet again, dont know.
I try not to take the cute animals for granted, but I cannot take my own self for granted either. I will eat animal meat, not only because it can be very delicious in so many ways, but I feel that it is essential for the life force in my body.
I do, however, respect anyone’s personal decision not to eat those cuties.
[QUOTE=Brother Neil;38369]so what should a crocodile do? become a vegetarian? if I should feel bad about eating meet then it is only right that a crocodile does too.
also, we say our consciouness, the animals, etc… But isnt the goal of yoga union? meaning one consciousness that is not Neil, Surya Deva, and alix? So again if I should feel bad about eating meat then so should a snake, lizard, cat, etc… for me over the last thee days I have eaten meat once, I craved a hamburger and tried to see if I would rather eat chicken instead, but no, it kept going back to a hamburger so that is what I ate, no guilt, no shame. How long till I eat meet again, dont know.[/QUOTE]
The simple response to that is you are not a crocodile
Perhaps you would like to reincarnate as a crocodile in your next life
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;38374]The simple response to that is you are not a crocodile
Perhaps you would like to reincarnate as a crocodile in your next life ;-)[/QUOTE]
and if so Im coming for ya
I remember this beautiful story. There was a sagely man walking along the banks of a river when it spotted a scorpian drowning in the river. The sage took the scorpian out of the river, and instantly the scorpian stung him(ungreatful scorpian!) the sage went away and came back and it found the scorpian was again drowning in the river. The sage took the scorpian out again, and once again the scorpian stung him. The sage went away and then came back and again found the scorpian was drowning in the river. So he rescued it again and again the scorpian stung him. At this a bystander who was standing there watching the sage rescuing the scorpian again and again and getting stung again and again, asked the sage, “Why do you keep rescuing that scorpian, when it just keeps stinging you” The sage responded, “It is my dharma as a sage to rescue creatures that are suffering and it is the dharma of the scorpian to sting to defend itself”
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;38377]I remember this beautiful story. There was a sagely man walking along the banks of a river when it spotted a scorpian drowning in the river. The sage took the scorpian out of the river, and instantly the scorpian stung him(ungreatful scorpian!) the sage went away and came back and it found the scorpian was again drowning in the river. The sage took the scorpian out again, and once again the scorpian stung him. The sage went away and then came back and again found the scorpian was drowning in the river. So he rescued it again and again the scorpian stung him. At this a bystander who was standing there watching the sage rescuing the scorpian again and again and getting stung again and again, asked the sage, “Why do you keep rescuing that scorpian, when it just keeps stinging you” The sage responded, “It is my dharma as a sage to rescue creatures that are suffering and it is the dharma of the scorpian to sting to defend itself”[/QUOTE]
Spot on that! 
That sounds a bit like the parable where the snake bites the person helping him and when the person complains the snake says, “you knew I was a snake when you picked me up”.
And in case that meaning is rather nebulous, it means that you should have the wisdom to know that creatures have a basic nature and will follow their basic instincts.
Humans are made to eat meat, to choose otherwise is certainly a valid choice, but only one option. I choose one, you choose another and we will bring balance to the world.
For those of you that say that your body “needs” meat, I used to share your opinion. I was raised by Eastern European parents who believed that meat was to be consumed at every meal. So, at dinner EVERY night, we had meat: a steak, lamb chops, pork roast, you name it–some sort of dead animal flesh daily. Frankly, I loved it. I thought my body needed meat. Then, one day when I was about 35 years old (after eating meat daily until that time), someone challenged me. No meat, no fish for 10 days. Well, I thought that I could do anything for 10 days.
Boy was I in for a surprise. Not only did I not miss meat, I felt totally energised! bouncing off the walls, barely sleeping. just high as a kite with no drugs! I took it a step further and gave up bread and other carbs. I flew higher!!
Now I am 42, and I have only been sick twice in 7 years. Today I do eat some carbs ( but MUCH less) and minimal dairy. I take no medications whatsoever. No Tylenol, no ibuprofen. I used to take that monthly when I had my period. I NEEDED it. Now, I just make sure I am dairy and bread free the week before my period, and NO pain!
Now, I am still not sure if this diet is for everybody, but I think you owe it to yourself to try it. Take the 10 day challenge. Give up meat, fish, dairy and carbs like bread and pasta. See how you feel and then decide if your body “needs” meat.
I’d love to hear from you.
Karen, I have eaten vegetarian and never felt sicker or weaker in my life. I was also under the supervision of a registered dietician at the time so I’m sure that I was getting a balanced diet. MY body needs meat, and actually all humans are designed to digest meat. (Thats what the hydrochloric acid is for) What helps each body to function best is up to its individual owner to figure out.
And in case that meaning is rather nebulous, it means that you should have the wisdom to know that creatures have a basic nature and will follow their basic instincts.
Humans are made to eat meat, to choose otherwise is certainly a valid choice, but only one option. I choose one, you choose another and we will bring balance to the world
No, humans are not made to eat meat. They are omnivorous, they can choose whether to eat meat or eat fruit, veg, nuts. Just as they can choose to have sex or not sex, or do good or do evil.
The dharma of the human being is unique because it has a characteristic that the scorpian is missing and that its ability for creativity and free will. The human being can reflect on its thoughts and act according and creatively, and thus it has access to higher spiritual faculties. The spirit sees what the scorpian and crocodile does not, that all beings are part of the same divine essence and all of them are on a journey to return to the supreme divine.
I think if you were really honest with yourself and consulted the divine spirit within it would found the killing of its creatures repugnant. I certainly have felt the presence of the divine in animals, such as my pet dog, and trust me if anybody tried to harm my dog I would defend him with the same intensity as I would defend a human child.
Consuming flesh is consuming highly dense food, which requires a lot of energy and effort of the human body to digest to extract out the nutrients and this simply increases the quality of tamas(ineria and heaviness) further grounding us into body-consciousness. The energy that we receive is a substandard energy which has been recycled many times. The primary source of the energy is the nourishing energy of the sun and the earth in fruit, veg, dairy and nuts. This gets consumed by herbivores and then part of it is converted into flesh which is more dense energy. The carnivore then eats the herbivore and the energy of the flesh gets converted into even more dense flesh for the carinivore. At this point if the human eats the carinovore they are consuming the lowest and thereby the most densest amount of energy. And if we take it to the extreme if the human eats another human than that is the most densest and lowest energy possible(extremely high tamas) and it completely reflects in the savage behaviour of the cannibal.
I think I have a good point here as people feel the lightest when they eat fruit and veg and heaviest when they consume flesh. Isn’t it also interestingly how unpopular carnivorous hardcore red meat is amongst humans? Thus logic dictates to me that if I want the most freshest, lightest and highest in natural energy I should eat fruit, veg, dairy and nuts. It will increase the qualitiy of sattva in the body which is needed to break away from body-consciousness and move into soul-consciousness. This is why many Yogis advise you to observe vegetarian diets, especially if you are desirous of attaining the highest goals of Yoga, the union with divinity. And as spirit finds the killing of its creatures repugnant I can see why flesh-eaters will struggle on the path.
While I do not think you have to be a vegetarian to practice or teach yoga, it is good to be a vegetarian as yoga is discussed in religious sense. Most people relate the yoga teachings to Hinduism which does encourage vegetarian meals.
Don’t trust that a registered dietician will know what your body needs to be a vegetarian and can accurately advise you in that respect. Being an RD does not require advanced training, and that qualification is best for giving guidelines that one should stay within to meet particular needs. If you had been adamant about becoming a vegetarian, I am sure there a dietary structure that would meet your needs and leave you with an immune system intact and good energy levels, without requiring you to take supplements.
Example - At home, I can eat 90% a raw vegan diet and always feel fantastic (occasionally I throw in a sushi buffet or on rare rare occasion a big steak). In India, where I work, vegetarian food dominates ninety percent of the menus that I look through, yet I find it difficult to eat and digest gratuitous amounts of rice, carbs and vegetable stews in order to meet my nutritional needs. I end up eating tons of chicken and eggs here just because they are protein dense and my normal sources of nutrition are not available or very hard to acquire and prepare (read: lettuce. Lettuce does not exist here). Likewise, the diets recommended in most books on vegetarianism, veganism and raw veganism are completely out of my scope and would make me wane and unhealthy, but luckily I had many years of a great professor of nutrition to aid me in my dietary choices.
I might also add that hydrochloric acid is extraordinary. The human body can digest the insulation you pull out of the ceiling. Your stomach lining is a miracle of evolutionary innovation. And your liver too. Livers are fantastic. You should probably worship your own liver. Viva la liver-ucion!
So far some say it’s OK for a yoga teacher to not be vegetarian and some say not OK. I guess related questions may be: does it matter to YOU if your yoga teacher is a vegetarian or not? Would you switch teachers if you knew he/she were a meat eater?