The Eternal Way

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;34039]The chances are they are both miles better than you.

You are not blind. You know when somebody is better than you in something.

Like I said greatness is always one better than you.[/QUOTE]

Ok, So who should worship who? Yngwie worships Tommy, or Tommy worships Yngwie.

Obviously, you can see my point now surely, but even if we could define best (which we can’t), I simply don’t buy the idea that we should worship the ‘best people’. It’s a shallow, petty idea, and I can’t believe it has come up on a Yoga forum. I was expecting some wisdom.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;34042]Not guessing but simply saying it as it is. Mind cannot be reduced to matter and this is accepted in philosophy of mind. So you are saying the modern philosophers of mind are illogical?

Modern science does not even back you up. Even they reject materialism. Are they also illogical?

Face it you are not as irreligious as you claim to be. Your faith is materialism.[/QUOTE]

Who said anything about Materialism? I don’t believe I have even used the word. All I’m saying, is there are things modern science can’t answer with any certainty. And I’m not prepared to guess an answer.

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;34043]Ok, So who should worship who? Yngwie worships Tommy, or Tommy worships Yngwie.

Obviously, you can see my point now surely, but even if we could define best (which we can’t), I simply don’t buy the idea that we should worship the ‘best people’. It’s a shallow, petty idea, and I can’t believe it has come up on a Yoga forum. I was expecting some wisdom.[/QUOTE]

The point is they both are better than you :wink:

This ain’t rocket science. If you want to be as good as them you study them and emulate what they are doing that makes them that good.

Who is the best is relative. Who is better than you is not. Einsein is smarter than you. Yes or no?

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;34045]The point is they both are better than you :wink:

This ain’t rocket science. If you want to be as good as them you study them and emulate what they are doing that makes them that good.

Who is the best is relative. Who is better than you is not. Einsein is smarter than you. Yes or no?[/QUOTE]

Einstein knows much more about maths and physics than I do. Yes… There are probably homeless people on the street who know more about maths and physics than I do… What was the point?

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;34044]Who said anything about Materialism? I don’t believe I have even used the word. All I’m saying, is there are things modern science can’t answer with any certainty. And I’m not prepared to guess an answer.[/QUOTE]

Materialism is the belief that everything is made out of matter, including mind and consciousness. As you reject metaphysics which is about there being non-material substances as well in existence such as minds and other methods of grasping such as using logic, then you must be a materialist.

Modern science has answered many things with certainty. It has demonstrated that there is no such thing as matter or laws of space and time, everything is just a wave of probability. It has proven that the world cannot exist without an observer. It has proven there are dimensions beyond the material world. It has proven that mind is not in the physical world(through non-locality) It has proven that the mind can and does interact with matter and these effects can be measured. It has proven levitation, teleportation and the existence of etheric forces(prana).

The various stages of meditation as decribed by yogis have also been proven by science to be real.

All of these are things Hinduism says. So Modern science is backing everything up about Hinduism. So if Hinduism is illogical, so is modern science.

Surya Deva
I recommend that you relearn your Physics. Modern science has not proven nor demonstrated that everything is a wave of probablility.
Science also has not proven dimensions beyond the material world. These are models and working theories, and just that. String Theory (in any form) has yet to show a true prediction. Even the most widely accepted theory (big bang) is still a theory. If we wanted to use Occams razor here, we would see that Theortical physics has become so complex that we are using 11 brane models (string theory again) to describe our universe. By default that would make it one of the most complex theories and therefore less probable.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;34048] It has proven levitation, teleportation and the existence of etheric forces(prana). /QUOTE]

I don’t know what nutty websites you’ve been going on. There’s no real evidence for this nonsense… Levitation? Teleportation? Come on. Don’t fall for that load of crap.

Also, I don’t deny the metaphysical world. I just deny the ridiculous claims, like the one you just made. I’m embarrassed for you.

While science has proven telportation is possible, it is not in the sense of definition that we move one particle or person to a new position without traversing the distance in between. It merely means that we can transmit information from one particle to another (via quantum entanglement) just by changing the state one of the particles. Information is not substance at this level of our universe.

SHIVA SPEAKS!!!

“This is called the Arch-yoga (Maha-yoga) where thou percievest the SUPREME SELF, which is eternal joy, in whom there is no deceit, and who is but I, the one Supreme Divinity. Other methods of yoga spoken of by the yogis in extensive treatises do not, taken all together, amount to one digit (kala, 1/16th) of this Essential yoga. That yoga in which the Liberated being can contemplate the Lord of the Universe is supreme among all yogas.”

I get all sentimental just reading that…

Yall got some work to do.

Now get to it and quit all this pontificating.

EVERYONE MUST THINK MY SON IS THE BEST MAN IN THE WORLD BEACUSE HE IS WHITE AND AMERICAN. HE IS SO PRIVILIGED TO HAVE EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE SHOULD EMULATE/WORSHIP HIM DUE TO HIS PLACE IN THE WORLD. WITH HIS LARGE SALARY ($2500.00 AMERICAN DOLLARS PER YEAR) HE IS RICHER THAN 95% OF THE WORLD’S POPULATION. HE IS GOD. ALL SHOULD WISH TO BE LIKE HIM.
(nevermind the fact that his mother makes him go to bed at 8:30PM, he must eat his green beans, must take a bath everyday and not jump on my furniture) :slight_smile:

No one is greater than anyone else. If we want a true “Pissing match” here…Brother Neil…My mat is bigger than yours. :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=TeeA;34056]While science has proven telportation is possible, it is not in the sense of definition that we move one particle or person to a new position without traversing the distance in between. It merely means that we can transmit information from one particle to another (via quantum entanglement) just by changing the state one of the particles. Information is not substance at this level of our universe.[/QUOTE]

Good point… Admittedly, I blindly jumped to the conclusion that it was being inferred that humans can levitate and teleport.

[I]Laghima[/I], to have no weight, is the control of the effect of the earth’s attraction on the body by developing in each cell the opposite tendency. This is considered to be fairly easy to do and is used for the frequently performed act of levitation.

[I]Prapti[/I], to be transported anywhere. The adept can at will transport himself to any place in the world at any time . . .

[QUOTE=The Scales;34103][I]Laghima[/I], to have no weight, is the control of the effect of the earth’s attraction on the body by developing in each cell the opposite tendency. This is considered to be fairly easy to do and is used for the frequently performed act of levitation.

[I]Prapti[/I], to be transported anywhere. The adept can at will transport himself to any place in the world at any time . . .[/QUOTE]

I own a pink unicorn that I fly to work.

I’ve never seen such a thing as a flying pink unicorn in scriptures, teachings nor shastras. So I think your lying.

However tricks and childs play such as levitation and other such amusements are all over in scripture, teachings, shastras, sutras, biographies and so on…

ALL OVER.

Science is ongoing and therefore can never be 'finished". It is gathering and organizing knowledge about nature and then condenses that knowledge into testable laws and theories. These testable laws and theories can be refined over time and cannot be considered certain.

Paleoanthropologist and writer Stephen Jay Gould states that facts are the worlds data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts.

Science does not assume it knows the truth. Science does not seek truth or certainty. No science theory can be proven with certainty. Facts, being the worlds data, involve not only testable elements but also involve interpretation. So, in science there is nothing certain. Because a theory is accepted as correct doesn’t mean it is infallibly certain. Facts, like theories are not certainties.

Everything in science is based on theory. I agree with TeeA that science has not proven that everything is a wave of probability. It is a theory. I am also not aware that science has proven with certainty that matter does not exist. Again everything is based on theory. What is your proof?

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;34108]Paleoanthropologist and writer Stephen Jay Gould states that facts are the worlds data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts.[/QUOTE]

I also love his quote, 'if you think you can understand Quantum theory, you don’t understand Quantum theory.

[QUOTE=The Scales;34107]I’ve never seen such a thing as a flying pink unicorn in scriptures, teachings nor shastras. So I think your lying.

However tricks and childs play such as levitation and other such amusements are all over in scripture, teachings, shastras, sutras, biographies and so on…

ALL OVER.[/QUOTE]

What I’m after is levitation in real life, not in scriptures. Scriptures are proof for squat!

TeeA, yes it has. I am not talking about String theory here. I am talking about Quantum Mechanics. I have read several books by actual quantum physicists that declare this themselves. It is proven beyond a reason of doubt that world is not made out of matter but information or waves of possiblity. It does not take any physical form until the observer collapses the wavefunction. We now know for a fact that the beyond the physical world exists a whole new dimension where in the universe exists as one entangled quantum system and is interacting with everything at all once. We can now use this new dimension for effects like quantum tunneling, quantum teleportation and quantum levitation. This is all proven stuff we have even been able to experimentally demonstrate it.

Yes, they can. I was having this debate with Pawel recently and he said that an object will always attract with a force of Gmm/r2. This has never proven to be wrong. Newtonian mechanics is still used in order to construct bridges, buildings, and calculate mechanicas of everyday things. It has never been proven to be wrong.

To say they are just “theoies” is a lazy new-ager argument. In science a theory is a model that best explains all observable facts in the world and can predict non unobservable facts. Quantum Mechanics not only explains all the observable facts in the world it also predicted many non observable facts which have all been empirically validated later. It is a vigorously tested theory and the most succesfull in the history of science, predicting things with the accuracy of a trillionth of a part.

Science does not assume it knows the truth. Science does not seek truth or certainty. No science theory can be proven with certainty. Facts, being the worlds data, involve not only testable elements but also involve interpretation. So, in science there is nothing certain. Because a theory is accepted as correct doesn’t mean it is infallibly certain. Facts, like theories are not certainties.

Science actually does seek truth or certainty, I don’t know who told you it didn’t. Science is certain about the observable world. If were were not certain about it we would not get on a roller coaster, or an aeroplane, just in case the law of conservation of energy was violated and the roller coaster ended up falling of the tracks or the plane ended up falling from the sky. It cannot say anything about the unobservable world, merely make predictions about it.

Quantum mechanics has now shown with a reason of doubt there is no such thing as physical matter. At the atomic level it is mostly empty space, the amount of matter in the universe is the equivalent of one spec in the middle of a large stadium. The rest is empty space. Then at the quantum level even that is negated because there is no space, time or matter beyond the final reduction of space. It then becomes nothing more a wave of possibility or information. And it has now been proven that this information does not become a particle without the observer. Quantum mechanics has been predicting this since the 1930’s, then later the test of the Bell inequalities further confirmed this, and finally today it has been empirically verified that the observer indeed collapses the wavefuncion. So we now without a reason of doubt that the physical world does not really exist without the observer and beyond the physical world reality is non-physical.

People who do not accept quantum mechanics has proven all of this this are simply people in denial. They are either materialists or Christians who want to keep science and religion separate. It has long been proven now, and now it is just a matter of developing technologies to use the quantum world. As the quantum world exists in another dimension we can use it to send information through it(quantum tunneling), eventually objects through it(quantum teleportation) and we can also use it to extract quantum forces(quantum levitation) and extract quantum energy(zero point energy) There is calculated to be enough energy within the space of a cup to evaporate all the oceans in the world.

We are poised to enter a whole new era of science: quantum science. This is none other than the pranic sciences of Hinduism. In Yoga prana is used to do all kinds of things generate forces to levitate objects(quantum levitation), extract energy from the ether(quantum), send communication though pranic channels(quantum tunneling) and teleport through pranic channels.