[QUOTE=Brother Neil;34436]and if you know this then why are you planning on going to learn from a master?[/QUOTE]
There is no way to self-realization without the grace of the Guru.
little jiva = atman
If you are using the term Brahman to denote the Almighty Awesome, this little jiva (me) is not Brahman.
Your confused.
Self Realization is not God Realization. Once can Realize God and not realize thier self (seer, purusha, jivatman). Or conversely they can Realize thier self, see thier true face as it is said and not Realize the Almighty.
I will say this . . . like attracts like.
Please check with me before posting anymore of your innane blithering…
Oh how do I whoop thee? Let me count the ways…
Also Guru can take many forms. Guru can be a principle of the almighty awesome. Guru can be the Teachings. Guru can be an embodied being. Guru can be hangin out in a subtle realm and contact you through signs in the prakriti and so on, or telepathically.
No you nitwit 
The Jiva is not the Atman. The Jiva is the living spark.
The Atman is the Self and it is identical with the cosmos, Brahman.
There is no god separate from the Self in Hinduism. This is a very well established doctrine of Hinduism.
Are you Hindu by the way?
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;34438]There is no way to self-realization without the grace of the Guru.[/QUOTE]
to know this you must be self realized, yes?
Nope, this is a well established tenet of Hinduism.
You will get nowhere without a guru.
The guru shows us the way.
so then you are not realized?
did the first self realized person have a guru?
a yogi without a guru? Maharishi?
"At age 16, he heard somebody mention “Arunachala.” Although he didn’t know what the word meant (it’s the name of a holy hill associated with the god Shiva) he became greatly excited. At about the same time he came across a copy of Sekkilar’s Periyapuranam, a book that describes the lives of Shaivite saints, and became fascinated by it. In the middle of 1896, at age 16, he was suddenly overcome by the feeling that he was about to die. He lay down on the floor, made his body stiff, and held his breath. “My body is dead now,” he said to himself, “but I am still alive.” In a flood of spiritual awareness he realized he was spirit, not his body.
His Guru
Ramana Maharshi didn’t have a human guru (other than himself). He often said that his guru was Arunachala, a holy mountain in South India."
from http://www.realization.org/page/topics/ramana.htm
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;34447]No you nitwit
The Jiva is not the Atman. The Jiva is the living spark.
The Atman is the Self and it is identical with the cosmos, Brahman.
There is no god separate from the Self in Hinduism. This is a very well established doctrine of Hinduism.
Are you Hindu by the way?[/QUOTE]
The self I’m referrring to is that which is me. Residing in my body, in my heart. Pure consciousness would be somewhat adequate in words. So really, when you get on down to it. I’m in my heart.
When I speak of self realization. This is what you realize. You see your real self. This is selfrealization. My true nature is like light. As is yours, as is every other self encased in a mayic body.
God Realization isn’t the same thing. Sorry. This little tiny spark of light that is me isn’t the totatlity, nor the creator, or destroyer or sustainer of this universe. I didn’t dream up the first human bodies, or the animals, or insects, or the sun, or the moon, and so on. I don’t spew forth prana.
I didn’t create this whole remarkable thing. Nor did you. Creation is the business of God. I’m just a player.
Like I said; I could see how one could come to this erroneous conclusion. As you have . . . with all your “I am God.” and all this… and by looking at the hindu scriptures. All of which are not totally perfect. and especially when translated.
The Lord is distinct. Thats not to say that one can’t be in yoga with him, for they can. Obviously…
I guess you could have considered me a hindu about 130 years ago.
I’m not big on labels though.
I will be going off to do the yoga for a while. You should do the same.
That is because he had a guru in his past lives. He himself believed he did:
Sri Ramana never talked about his previous lives, although he did concede once that he must have had a Guru in some other life. I personally feel that he completed all his spiritual work in some other body and arrived in his final birth in a state of such utter purity and readiness that enlightenment came to him virtually unasked while he was still in his teens.
Everybody needs a guru to reach enlightenment.
Ah, so you have chosen to hold onto this god belief Fair enough, you will grow out of it eventually.
There is no proof for god outside of humans remember that. As for the universe we don’t need a god to explain it can all be explained by nature.
In Hinduism there is no god. There is only Self.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;34460]Ah, so you have chosen to hold onto this god belief Fair enough, you will grow out of it eventually.
There is no proof for god outside of humans remember that. As for the universe we don’t need a god to explain it can all be explained by nature.
In Hinduism there is no god. There is only Self.[/QUOTE]
It’s not a belief. I’ve seen aspects of it. I’ve been swimming around in it. I’ve been in union with it. Face to Face. so to speak… and it wasn’t little ol me.
Distinct.
Thats how I know your wrong and You don’t understand your religion.
You haven’t. You’ve had some experiences in meditation, which you have wanted to call god.
ehhhhhhh
Hmmmm
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;34472]You haven’t. You’ve had some experiences in meditation, which you have wanted to call god.[/QUOTE]
Incorrect.
She awoke and stirred.
She grabbed me and took me all the way to the top.
All I had to do was wake her up.
I took her to the spot. She grabbed me. After that it was all spontaneous. The bandhas and head movement and eyes were all without my conscioius control.
There was no breath.
Before me was . . . well I can’t tell you.
and it was doing something to me . . .which also I can’t tell you.
Eat your heart out library boy!!!
and no I won’t tell you how I did it.
TEE HEE.
Ha.
Ha.
Ha.
This wasn’t the only glimpse either…
This is how I know the following:
- That your full of doody.
- That THAT is.
- That you don’t understand your religion.
So you had a Kundalini experience.
There is nothing godly about it. It is a perfectly natural phenomemon where the energy circuits in your body rewire allowing for more pranic energy to flow into your system and activating your chakras.
Still no proof of god there, my boy 
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;34556]So you had a Kundalini experience.
There is nothing godly about it. It is a perfectly natural phenomemon where the energy circuits in your body rewire allowing for more pranic energy to flow into your system and activating your chakras.
Still no proof of god there, my boy ;)[/QUOTE]
No Read it again.
Nothing that you wrote occurred. Except perhaps 3 or four human lives ago…Maybe more. Don’t have conscious memory.
First of all no where Have I read correctly where she rises from and what she feels like. Or preciescly how to wake her.
and I ain’t talking about prana slowly working out the stuff.
I’m talking full blown get up and go.
I wonder why you find it so hard to believe. Maybe because you think your God. Which your not.
or your jealous.
or your just a scoffer by nature?
I know what I saw. This particular form is well known in the yoga system iconography. and Yes Its true. I didn’t get the whole view of it because I was so close to it.
Yes. He’s awesome. Sometimes I want to cry just thinking about how awesome he is.
The thing is . . . I can see why he hides himself. or at least this aspect of Him…
Don’t be a hater.
I’m sure you’ll have something to say…
Its cool I’m not really writing anything for you per se. It’s for others that I do what I do. You may believe what you wish. This is your God given right.
Ramakrishna Paramhansa, one of the greatest mystics of the 20th century had remarkable experiences and he witnessed the form of Kali. He was initially a great dualist and bhakta of the divine mother and in the end even he transcended the form and attained to the ultimate non-dual state of consciousness.
You cannot tell me of any god that is distinct from your experience. In the end whatever you tell me about god is a subjective experience you had. There is no god separate from your experience of it. So it is nothing more than your own consciousness. The form you see whether it is Jesus, Krishna, Shiva, Kali is nothing more than your subconscious imagining.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;34559]Ramakrishna Paramhansa, one of the greatest mystics of the 20th century had remarkable experiences and he witnessed the form of Kali. He was initially a great dualist and bhakta of the divine mother and in the end even he transcended the form and attained to the ultimate non-dual state of consciousness.
You cannot tell me of any god that is distinct from your experience. In the end whatever you tell me about god is a subjective experience you had. There is no god separate from your experience of it. So it is nothing more than your own consciousness. The form you see whether it is Jesus, Krishna, Shiva, Kali is nothing more than your subconscious imagining.[/QUOTE]
IT WAS NOT AN ANTROPOMORPHIC FORM.
THERE WAS NO BREATH.
THERE WAS JOY. A SHIT EATING GRIN ON MY FACE. PARDON MY SPANISH.
IT (GOD) WAS DOING STUFF TO MY BODY. But only when I was in contact with it…
IT WAS NOT IMAGINATION.
YOUR RATIONALE IS WEAK SAUCE.
scoffer…
Just a scoffer…
- Your full of doody.
- THAT is.
- You don’t understand your own religion - BECAUSE YOU ONLY HAVE BOOK KNOWLEDGE and YOU DON’T Fully comprehend it. YOU CAN’T BELIEVE IT. BECAUSE IT HASN’T HAPPENED TO YOU!@!!! SO YOU TRY TO RATIONALIZE. With your samkya or whatever…
LOL
scoffer…
And no . . . I won’t tell you how I did it.
Dangerous it could be.
and no I won’t tell anybody else how to do it. Sorry.
If its really super important I’ll go up and see him. But most people can’t. So I go through the foundational practices to understand . . . through practical experience . . . what suggestions to make to others. BY MY OWN EXPERIENCE.
I DON’T NEED TO BE HERE. ITS MUCH NICER UPSTAIRS… I assure you. But I don’t mind all that much, I have a nice role to play here
. . . once you see him he never really leaves you…