[QUOTE=Surya Deva;34037]
Just because we Hindus are athiest/impersonalists does not mean we embrace materialism. Materialism is just as illogical to us as theism.[/QUOTE]
That’s why Hinduism is illogical. It’s all just guessing about the unknown.
[QUOTE=YogiAdam;34036]Again, define best. My dad thought that Yngwie Malmsteen was boring, and that Tommy Emmanuel was the best.[/QUOTE]
The chances are they are both miles better than you.
You are not blind. You know when somebody is better than you in something.
Like I said greatness is always one better than you.
Don’t know about logical fallacy.Not so sure about that.
But, No,True, i don’t necessarily come to any definite truth about anythng i hear. I try to keep an open mind as far as i can, as much as i can if for e.g conditioning ,culture,perspective,prec-conceptions,errors,the balance of evidence and other varaibles may allow.
But if someone claims to say the moon is made of cheese then the burden is on others to prove it may well be not.So if you accuse someone of making up fibs or porkies, i’m sorry but you have to prove it.( whether there are vested interests or not, or over-all leaps for mankind)
[QUOTE=YogiAdam;34038]That’s why Hinduism is illogical. It’s all just guessing about the unknown.[/QUOTE]
Not guessing but simply saying it as it is. Mind cannot be reduced to matter and this is accepted in philosophy of mind. So you are saying the modern philosophers of mind are illogical?
Modern science does not even back you up. Even they reject materialism. Are they also illogical?
Face it you are not as irreligious as you claim to be. Your faith is materialism.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;34039]The chances are they are both miles better than you.
You are not blind. You know when somebody is better than you in something.
Like I said greatness is always one better than you.[/QUOTE]
Ok, So who should worship who? Yngwie worships Tommy, or Tommy worships Yngwie.
Obviously, you can see my point now surely, but even if we could define best (which we can’t), I simply don’t buy the idea that we should worship the ‘best people’. It’s a shallow, petty idea, and I can’t believe it has come up on a Yoga forum. I was expecting some wisdom.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;34042]Not guessing but simply saying it as it is. Mind cannot be reduced to matter and this is accepted in philosophy of mind. So you are saying the modern philosophers of mind are illogical?
Modern science does not even back you up. Even they reject materialism. Are they also illogical?
Face it you are not as irreligious as you claim to be. Your faith is materialism.[/QUOTE]
Who said anything about Materialism? I don’t believe I have even used the word. All I’m saying, is there are things modern science can’t answer with any certainty. And I’m not prepared to guess an answer.
[QUOTE=YogiAdam;34043]Ok, So who should worship who? Yngwie worships Tommy, or Tommy worships Yngwie.
Obviously, you can see my point now surely, but even if we could define best (which we can’t), I simply don’t buy the idea that we should worship the ‘best people’. It’s a shallow, petty idea, and I can’t believe it has come up on a Yoga forum. I was expecting some wisdom.[/QUOTE]
The point is they both are better than you 
This ain’t rocket science. If you want to be as good as them you study them and emulate what they are doing that makes them that good.
Who is the best is relative. Who is better than you is not. Einsein is smarter than you. Yes or no?
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;34045]The point is they both are better than you
This ain’t rocket science. If you want to be as good as them you study them and emulate what they are doing that makes them that good.
Who is the best is relative. Who is better than you is not. Einsein is smarter than you. Yes or no?[/QUOTE]
Einstein knows much more about maths and physics than I do. Yes… There are probably homeless people on the street who know more about maths and physics than I do… What was the point?
[QUOTE=YogiAdam;34044]Who said anything about Materialism? I don’t believe I have even used the word. All I’m saying, is there are things modern science can’t answer with any certainty. And I’m not prepared to guess an answer.[/QUOTE]
Materialism is the belief that everything is made out of matter, including mind and consciousness. As you reject metaphysics which is about there being non-material substances as well in existence such as minds and other methods of grasping such as using logic, then you must be a materialist.
Modern science has answered many things with certainty. It has demonstrated that there is no such thing as matter or laws of space and time, everything is just a wave of probability. It has proven that the world cannot exist without an observer. It has proven there are dimensions beyond the material world. It has proven that mind is not in the physical world(through non-locality) It has proven that the mind can and does interact with matter and these effects can be measured. It has proven levitation, teleportation and the existence of etheric forces(prana).
The various stages of meditation as decribed by yogis have also been proven by science to be real.
All of these are things Hinduism says. So Modern science is backing everything up about Hinduism. So if Hinduism is illogical, so is modern science.
Surya Deva
I recommend that you relearn your Physics. Modern science has not proven nor demonstrated that everything is a wave of probablility.
Science also has not proven dimensions beyond the material world. These are models and working theories, and just that. String Theory (in any form) has yet to show a true prediction. Even the most widely accepted theory (big bang) is still a theory. If we wanted to use Occams razor here, we would see that Theortical physics has become so complex that we are using 11 brane models (string theory again) to describe our universe. By default that would make it one of the most complex theories and therefore less probable.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;34048] It has proven levitation, teleportation and the existence of etheric forces(prana). /QUOTE]
I don’t know what nutty websites you’ve been going on. There’s no real evidence for this nonsense… Levitation? Teleportation? Come on. Don’t fall for that load of crap.
Also, I don’t deny the metaphysical world. I just deny the ridiculous claims, like the one you just made. I’m embarrassed for you.
While science has proven telportation is possible, it is not in the sense of definition that we move one particle or person to a new position without traversing the distance in between. It merely means that we can transmit information from one particle to another (via quantum entanglement) just by changing the state one of the particles. Information is not substance at this level of our universe.
SHIVA SPEAKS!!!
“This is called the Arch-yoga (Maha-yoga) where thou percievest the SUPREME SELF, which is eternal joy, in whom there is no deceit, and who is but I, the one Supreme Divinity. Other methods of yoga spoken of by the yogis in extensive treatises do not, taken all together, amount to one digit (kala, 1/16th) of this Essential yoga. That yoga in which the Liberated being can contemplate the Lord of the Universe is supreme among all yogas.”
I get all sentimental just reading that…
Yall got some work to do.
Now get to it and quit all this pontificating.
EVERYONE MUST THINK MY SON IS THE BEST MAN IN THE WORLD BEACUSE HE IS WHITE AND AMERICAN. HE IS SO PRIVILIGED TO HAVE EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE SHOULD EMULATE/WORSHIP HIM DUE TO HIS PLACE IN THE WORLD. WITH HIS LARGE SALARY ($2500.00 AMERICAN DOLLARS PER YEAR) HE IS RICHER THAN 95% OF THE WORLD’S POPULATION. HE IS GOD. ALL SHOULD WISH TO BE LIKE HIM.
(nevermind the fact that his mother makes him go to bed at 8:30PM, he must eat his green beans, must take a bath everyday and not jump on my furniture) 
No one is greater than anyone else. If we want a true “Pissing match” here…Brother Neil…My mat is bigger than yours.
[QUOTE=TeeA;34056]While science has proven telportation is possible, it is not in the sense of definition that we move one particle or person to a new position without traversing the distance in between. It merely means that we can transmit information from one particle to another (via quantum entanglement) just by changing the state one of the particles. Information is not substance at this level of our universe.[/QUOTE]
Good point… Admittedly, I blindly jumped to the conclusion that it was being inferred that humans can levitate and teleport.
[I]Laghima[/I], to have no weight, is the control of the effect of the earth’s attraction on the body by developing in each cell the opposite tendency. This is considered to be fairly easy to do and is used for the frequently performed act of levitation.
[I]Prapti[/I], to be transported anywhere. The adept can at will transport himself to any place in the world at any time . . .
[QUOTE=The Scales;34103][I]Laghima[/I], to have no weight, is the control of the effect of the earth’s attraction on the body by developing in each cell the opposite tendency. This is considered to be fairly easy to do and is used for the frequently performed act of levitation.
[I]Prapti[/I], to be transported anywhere. The adept can at will transport himself to any place in the world at any time . . .[/QUOTE]
I own a pink unicorn that I fly to work.
I’ve never seen such a thing as a flying pink unicorn in scriptures, teachings nor shastras. So I think your lying.
However tricks and childs play such as levitation and other such amusements are all over in scripture, teachings, shastras, sutras, biographies and so on…
ALL OVER.
Science is ongoing and therefore can never be 'finished". It is gathering and organizing knowledge about nature and then condenses that knowledge into testable laws and theories. These testable laws and theories can be refined over time and cannot be considered certain.
Paleoanthropologist and writer Stephen Jay Gould states that facts are the worlds data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts.
Science does not assume it knows the truth. Science does not seek truth or certainty. No science theory can be proven with certainty. Facts, being the worlds data, involve not only testable elements but also involve interpretation. So, in science there is nothing certain. Because a theory is accepted as correct doesn’t mean it is infallibly certain. Facts, like theories are not certainties.
Everything in science is based on theory. I agree with TeeA that science has not proven that everything is a wave of probability. It is a theory. I am also not aware that science has proven with certainty that matter does not exist. Again everything is based on theory. What is your proof?
[QUOTE=lotusgirl;34108]Paleoanthropologist and writer Stephen Jay Gould states that facts are the worlds data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts.[/QUOTE]
I also love his quote, 'if you think you can understand Quantum theory, you don’t understand Quantum theory.