The Greatest Healer is You

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#124

Dear Anand,

I am really sorry. I am trying my level best to follow your steps. After many days of practice, I am back to square one. I still cannot understand and find a way to clear my confusions and conflicts.

I surrender to “Prana”, but still the act of surrender incorporates my body and mind. I let air (“Prana Sakthi”) take charge of automatically going in and coming out of what, my body and the feeling of it through my mind.

When things go beyond understanding, the well known suggestion comes here in the name of “Shradha (Faith) and Saburi (Patience)”.

Again how long this Shradha and Saburi has to go on, is still decided by one’s own karmic nature.

If everything is ultimately by karmic reactions of many births, why can’t I surrender every second directly, selflessly and absolutely to my karma instead of all other concepts?

[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;63983]
[li]Relax the body to the maximum, as if body is not there.[/li]regards
anand[/QUOTE]

Involves very much body & Mind.

[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;63983]
[ol]
[li][B]Allow[/B] the [B]automatic[/B] breathing to take place.[/li][/ol]
[/QUOTE]

How is it automatic? one just makes up the mind to feel it is automatic.

[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;63983]
[ol]
Please [B]don’t do[/B] anything yourself.
[/ol]
[/QUOTE]

To practice this, I still need to differentiate between me (mind & body) not doing it, but the Unknown power “Prana” (that is also understood by mind & body by reading about Mahayoga) doing this automatically.

Isn’t this becoming “Chicken or egg like” situation?

Surrender to Thee!

Sahasrara.

#125

[QUOTE=john32;64608]oak, do you mean that there are exercices that develop power of will?[/QUOTE]

“The great secret of yoga is concentration.”

         Yogananda
#126

I quote from an interview of Dr. Stephen Sinatra, well known to heal almost impossible cases, where all other doctots gave up.

It is most important to instill in the patient the BELIEF that he will get well.

There is even a book to quote: Bology of Belief, by Bruce Lipton.

It is actually the patient who heals himself; the doctor just guides him.

Dr. S. Sinatra believed so much in the healing power of belief that he took a course of Gestalt Therapy., which resolves blocks and tensions in the body. Otherwise said, it is the good old qi gong, which TCM (traditional Chinese Medicine) has been practising for
thousands of years.

Gestalt Therapy uses Bioenergetics, already discussed on this forum.

#127

could you tell more about it?

#128

[QUOTE=Sahasrara;64983]Dear Anand,

I am really sorry. I am trying my level best to follow your steps. After many days of practice, I am back to square one. I still cannot understand and find a way to clear my confusions and conflicts.

I surrender to “Prana”, but still the act of surrender incorporates my body and mind. I let air (“Prana Sakthi”) take charge of automatically going in and coming out of what, my body and the feeling of it through my mind.

When things go beyond understanding, the well known suggestion comes here in the name of “Shradha (Faith) and Saburi (Patience)”.

Again how long this Shradha and Saburi has to go on, is still decided by one’s own karmic nature.

If everything is ultimately by karmic reactions of many births, why can’t I surrender every second directly, selflessly and absolutely to my karma instead of all other concepts?

Involves very much body & Mind.

How is it automatic? one just makes up the mind to feel it is automatic.

To practice this, I still need to differentiate between me (mind & body) not doing it, but the Unknown power “Prana” (that is also understood by mind & body by reading about Mahayoga) doing this automatically.

Isn’t this becoming “Chicken or egg like” situation?

Surrender to Thee!

Sahasrara.[/QUOTE]

Dear Friend:

There is absolutely no question of surrendering to [I]karma[/I] as these were in the first place done in the domain of “physical I-ness”.

In mahayoga introductory practice, it is this “physical I-ness” that is surrendering to the driving force, prana, via the manifestation of this force in the form of automatic breathing. [B](The word automatic is important, because in the practice, one should not impose any pattern. Let the air come in, go out or stay still)[/B]

One may ask, if everything is a manifestation of [I]Prana[/I], why select automatic breath? The answer is that in animated creatures, breathing is the native form of [I]Prana~Shakti[/I]. Following it is following the movement of [I]Prana[/I].

[B]Not imposing one’s mind on something and having faith in it is known as [I]Shraddha[/I][/B]. So have [I]Shraddha[/I] in the divine living force known as [I]Prana~Shakti[/I], pray to Goddess [I]Saraswat[/I]i or your Guru and sit for Mahayoga Introductory Practice.

Another thing to be remembered is that [I][B]Atman and Prana are two sides of the same coin.[/B][/I]

Please continue the practice. Through this, mind will learn total surrender, by which, Grace will descend i.e. prana shakti will ascend.

regards
anand

#129

thank you!

#130

what is maha yoga?

#131

i think maha yoga is a theory of yoga. i’ve read some articles about it - to unprepared mind it’s a huge challenge to understand…

#132

Somehow faith in an outside guru seems contradictory to the yogic sciences, besides what are the chances of finding a guru who truly embodies all the qualities and characteristics required for Mahayoga, be much prudent when choosing this path; clinging to someone else’s values of personal liberation verses operating under one’s natural intelligence, self awareness and clarity of direct experience toward original true nature of oneself, that which we already posses and need only uncover?

#133

[QUOTE=john32;65074]i think maha yoga is a theory of yoga. i’ve read some articles about it - to unprepared mind it’s a huge challenge to understand…[/QUOTE]

Dear Friend:

Although it does have a theoretical base, Mahayoga is not just a theory of yoga. It is a yoga form in which [I][B]yoga-kriyas[/B][/I] or yoga actions are experienced by the aspirant as spontaneous happenings.

In all other yoga forms, one has to willfully execute some [I]yoga-kriya[/I], such as asana, pranayama, mantra, etc. Thus one is a doer. In Mahayoga, one’s body awareness [B]sublimates[/B] into [I][B]Prana~Shakti[/B][/I], by way of total surrender to this living force. The kriyas happen, as if on their own, but actually by the grace of Prana~shakti. The mind remains a mere witness. A seer instead of a doer.

Being a living force, a gender is referred to [I][B]Prana~Shakti[/B][/I] and it is feminine. She I[/I] is thus also seen as Divine Mother, since we are all born of this force and are part of Her Infinity.

Ordinarily, even if intelligent, one’s mind is conditioned by desires and ego and this conditioning prevents us from experiencing our real self. So in mahayoga, during practice sessions, the aspirant’s mind is “taken over” by the Divine Mother Principle, viz. [I]Prana~Shakti.[/I]

Having included the aspirant’s ego into Herself, [I]Prana~shakti[/I], by reacting with deep rooted conditioning known as [I][B]“samskaras”[/B][/I] produces actions that satisfy the innermost self, rather than bodily ego. Thus such desires are [B]fulfilled to the core[/B], thus never cropping up again.

Thus, in Mahayoga, such internal cleansing takes place, that too, effortlessly. The duration of cleansing depends upon one’s Karmic Baggage,the time one devotes to regular sitting I[/I] and the level of surrender to Prana.

Thus, [B]Mahayoga is the simplest and the highest Yoga[/B]. It is also referred to in a hidden way, in the [I][B]Bhagavad Gita[/B][/I], the most authentic Yoga Manual known to man.

Since surrendering is the most difficult thing to bring about, the [B]introductory practice of mahayoga,[/B] outlined elsewhere in this forum, slowly precipitates this.

Please, please, try the simple practice with full devotion and experience for yourself.

regards
anand

#134

[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;65086]Thus, [B]Mahayoga is the simplest and the highest Yoga[/B]. It is also referred to in a hidden way, in the [I][B]Bhagavad Gita[/B][/I], the most authentic Yoga Manual known to man.[/QUOTE]

The Bhagavad Gita mentions; Bhakti Yoga (Devotion), Karma Yoga (Selfless Action) and Jnana Yoga (Self Transcending Knowledge) but not Mahayoga (around1000 years old) which is even much younger than Patanjali Yoga Sutras (outlining the eight limbs/rungs of Classical Yoga, Ashtanga Yoga or Rāja Yoga) and certainly incomparable to the timeless age of the Bhagavad Gita. I’m not sure where you find and what you mean by “simplest, highest yoga, hidden away”? Elaboration from where you find this, experiences you’ve had and why you believe it more effective would be of interest: otherwise what you describe is yoga of the Bhagavad Gita and or Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras which utilizes skilful techniques/methodologies to aid in a challenging goal? Of course there is more than one way to yoga but why are you adamant about this relatively new way?

#135

[QUOTE=ray_killeen;65093]The Bhagavad Gita mentions; Bhakti Yoga (Devotion), Karma Yoga (Selfless Action) and Jnana Yoga (Self Transcending Knowledge) but not Mahayoga (around1000 years old) which is even much younger than Patanjali Yoga Sutras (outlining the eight limbs/rungs of Classical Yoga, Ashtanga Yoga or Rāja Yoga) and certainly incomparable to the timeless age of the Bhagavad Gita. I’m not sure where you find and what you mean by “simplest, highest yoga, hidden away”? Elaboration from where you find this, experiences you’ve had and why you believe it more effective would be of interest: otherwise what you describe is yoga of the Bhagavad Gita and or Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras which utilizes skilful techniques/methodologies to aid in a challenging goal? Of course there is more than one way to yoga but why are you adamant about this relatively new way?[/QUOTE]

Dear Friend:

I am sorry if I have sounded adamant. I am not at all adamant about anything for the simple reason that in Yoga, being adamant becomes detrimental to one’s own progress.

In all its eighteen chapters, The Bhagavad Gita has described various kinds of Yoga that are helpful to put the aspirant firmly on the path of Internal Yoga, having the Goal of God / Self Realization / emancipation / salvation.

The subject of Internal Yoga comes up particularly in Chapter 6 which deals with Dhyana Yoga i.e. meditation. In this Chapter, the Yoga aspirant (Arjuna) is advised to attempt again and again to fix the mind in [B]only and only[/B], the Self.

Well, Mahayoga says that the ascent of “I-ness” from body “I-ness” to Self, begins with fixing the mind in [I]Prana~Shakti[/I], which by proxy, is one’s automatic breath.

Chapter 9 described as [B]The Supreme Yoga Way[/B], to be kept Secret, except for the true devotee, is the way of [B]Absolute Surrende[/B]r. It is to be noted that allegorically, Arjuna is the highly trained, yet uncertain-minded aspirant and Lord Krishna, who apparently invites Arjuna to surrender to “Me”, is in fact one’s [I]Prana[/I], “awakened” inwardly.

Thus Mahayoga says this surrender is not to anyone outside you, rather it is to your own [I]Prana~Shakti[/I]. There are several developments that take place by such surrender. The first important development being that “I-ness” gets lifted from body “I-ness” into Prana “I-ness”. This results in The most important thing viz. that [B][I]Prana[/I] automatically enters [I]sushumna[/I][/B]. I don’t have to say what happens as a result of this.

Once one gets an experience of this supportless and hence divine force known as [I]Prana~Shakti[/I] functioning within, only then, the surrender can take place.

So in Mahayoga aspirants, with [I]Prana~Shakti[/I] in charge of all the doing, the role of the mind is that of a witness only. Of course this is for the duration of the sitting, which again is determined by [I]Prana[/I]!

All this sounds strange and impossible, not just to a western mind, but to anyone in general. Hence it is to be tried out. After all, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Regarding how old Mahayoga is, well, in the ancient times, [I]rishis[/I] initiated just a few persons into Mahayoga. Three classic examples are those of Rishi Vasishtha initiating Lord Rama; Adi Shankaracharya being initiated by his Guru Goudapadacharya; and Swami Vivekananda being initiated by Guru Paramhamsa Ramakrishna.

In fact, if you you are practising say Hatha Yoga and various asanas, just see the mind boggling variety of asanas, pranayamas, bandhas and so on! Do you think these were a result of some empirical study? No. These were performed automatically (i.e. by grace of awakened Prana) by the initiated aspirants and were recorded for posterity, to be done by future aspirants to get the same inner results.

However, it is difficult to pinpoint, with the help of the mind or any ordinary third person, as to which asanas, pranayama etc are really required for a particular person’s inner purification. Hence, when [I]Prana~Shakti[/I] decides and does all this, the aspirant is in safe and divine hands.

I agree, one’s Prana can be “awakened inwardly” by the dint of one’s own effort in Yoga. But what is the point, when one needs to dissolve the ego anyway. In Mahayoga, all one has to do is pray to Prana~Shakti through a Guru. The Grace of Prana then descends most easily. Thereafter, this awakened Prana becomes one’s inner Guru.

regards
anand

#136

any way to yoga practice is unadamant, guys, but one: less words more doings…

#137

[QUOTE=john32;65147]any way to yoga practice is unadamant, guys, but one: less words more doings…[/QUOTE]

Practicing Jnana yoga (wink!)

#138

In Mahayoga, the ‘seeker’ is no more ‘seeker’ or ‘doer’.
Sadhana is not done, it happens. One can very easily and certainly experience this by practicing Mahayoga.

Once the seeker surrinders, it becomes sole responsibility of the Almighty
to take care of the jeeva. As described in 18th chapter of Bhagavat Geeta bya Bhagavan ShriKrishna, ‘sarva dharmaan parityajya, maam ekam sharaNam vraja’ (सर्व धर्मान् परित्यज्य माम् एकम् शरणं व्रज!)

Here, one surrinders to ‘prana-shakti’, it starts with the purification of the jeeva.

Since anyone and everyone, regardless of his/her earlier good or bad deeds, or irrespective of any qualities in duality, is able to experience this, its simplest , since one is not required to spend a single penny for this - its cheapest, and from experience of the seekers - its highest.

[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;65106]Dear Friend:

I am sorry if I have sounded adamant. I am not at all adamant about anything for the simple reason that in Yoga, being adamant becomes detrimental to one’s own progress.

In all its eighteen chapters, The Bhagavad Gita has described various kinds of Yoga that are helpful to put the aspirant firmly on the path of Internal Yoga, having the Goal of God / Self Realization / emancipation / salvation.

The subject of Internal Yoga comes up particularly in Chapter 6 which deals with Dhyana Yoga i.e. meditation. In this Chapter, the Yoga aspirant (Arjuna) is advised to attempt again and again to fix the mind in [B]only and only[/B], the Self.

Well, Mahayoga says that the ascent of “I-ness” from body “I-ness” to Self, begins with fixing the mind in [I]Prana~Shakti[/I], which by proxy, is one’s automatic breath.

Chapter 9 described as [B]The Supreme Yoga Way[/B], to be kept Secret, except for the true devotee, is the way of [B]Absolute Surrende[/B]r. It is to be noted that allegorically, Arjuna is the highly trained, yet uncertain-minded aspirant and Lord Krishna, who apparently invites Arjuna to surrender to “Me”, is in fact one’s [I]Prana[/I], “awakened” inwardly.

Thus Mahayoga says this surrender is not to anyone outside you, rather it is to your own [I]Prana~Shakti[/I]. There are several developments that take place by such surrender. The first important development being that “I-ness” gets lifted from body “I-ness” into Prana “I-ness”. This results in The most important thing viz. that [B][I]Prana[/I] automatically enters [I]sushumna[/I][/B]. I don’t have to say what happens as a result of this.

Once one gets an experience of this supportless and hence divine force known as [I]Prana~Shakti[/I] functioning within, only then, the surrender can take place.

So in Mahayoga aspirants, with [I]Prana~Shakti[/I] in charge of all the doing, the role of the mind is that of a witness only. Of course this is for the duration of the sitting, which again is determined by [I]Prana[/I]!

All this sounds strange and impossible, not just to a western mind, but to anyone in general. Hence it is to be tried out. After all, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Regarding how old Mahayoga is, well, in the ancient times, [I]rishis[/I] initiated just a few persons into Mahayoga. Three classic examples are those of Rishi Vasishtha initiating Lord Rama; Adi Shankaracharya being initiated by his Guru Goudapadacharya; and Swami Vivekananda being initiated by Guru Paramhamsa Ramakrishna.

In fact, if you you are practising say Hatha Yoga and various asanas, just see the mind boggling variety of asanas, pranayamas, bandhas and so on! Do you think these were a result of some empirical study? No. These were performed automatically (i.e. by grace of awakened Prana) by the initiated aspirants and were recorded for posterity, to be done by future aspirants to get the same inner results.

However, it is difficult to pinpoint, with the help of the mind or any ordinary third person, as to which asanas, pranayama etc are really required for a particular person’s inner purification. Hence, when [I]Prana~Shakti[/I] decides and does all this, the aspirant is in safe and divine hands.

I agree, one’s Prana can be “awakened inwardly” by the dint of one’s own effort in Yoga. But what is the point, when one needs to dissolve the ego anyway. In Mahayoga, all one has to do is pray to Prana~Shakti through a Guru. The Grace of Prana then descends most easily. Thereafter, this awakened Prana becomes one’s inner Guru.

regards
anand[/QUOTE]

#139

but does that work then?

[QUOTE=hsparchure;65151]In Mahayoga, the ‘seeker’ is no more ‘seeker’ or ‘doer’.
Sadhana is not done, it happens. One can very easily and certainly experience this by practicing Mahayoga.

Once the seeker surrinders, it becomes sole responsibility of the Almighty
to take care of the jeeva. As described in 18th chapter of Bhagavat Geeta bya Bhagavan ShriKrishna, ‘sarva dharmaan parityajya, maam ekam sharaNam vraja’ (सर्व धर्मान् परित्यज्य माम् एकम् शरणं व्रज!)

Here, one surrinders to ‘prana-shakti’, it starts with the purification of the jeeva.

Since anyone and everyone, regardless of his/her earlier good or bad deeds, or irrespective of any qualities in duality, is able to experience this, its simplest , since one is not required to spend a single penny for this - its cheapest, and from experience of the seekers - its highest.[/QUOTE]

#140

the only work with yoga is practice, john…

[QUOTE=john32;65199]but does that work then?[/QUOTE]

#141

yoga is practice

#142

Kima,

“yoga is practice”

It is, and yet even infinite practice without the proper inner spirit which is flowing through the discipline will not be of any help. Any method is simply neutral in itself, it can be used in a thousand and one different ways. If you are clinging to any method, if you have become a slave to your own discipline, then unless one moves beyond it, all of one’s practice is only going to be for the sake or re-enforcing one’s programming. And that is why there have been yogis who have been involved in the discipline for almost their whole lives, and yet they had remained as unconscious and asleep as ever, neither has it managed to bring one to a contentment with things as they are. In fact, their involvement with the yogic sciences has only managed to complicate what was already a complex situation. Our system is very complex, and if one is tampering with the system without the proper understanding, then it can be tremendously dangerous - to be involved in the spiritual sciences in such a situation may only prevent any kind of spiritual expansion from happening. There is a certain tantric maxim, “the very poison that kills becomes the elixir of life when used by the wise”. If this is true, then just the opposite is also the case - that even the elixir of life becomes poison when it is used by a fool. That is why I am in absolute agreement with what Gautama Buddha had said, that what is needed is not simply effort, but the right kind of effort.

#143

[QUOTE=john32;65199]but does that work then?[/QUOTE]

yoga is more about pactise. if you don`t pactise yoga, how you can “feel” yoga benefit!. :grin: