It may sound a bit obtuse but if you believe in amrit and stimulation of the pituitary it becomes more relevant : I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on whether the tongue should be pressed flat above on the hard palate just behind the upper teeth or slightly curled further back on the soft palette while in the headstand. Lately I’ve been doing the latter after contemplating Kechari Mudra and it’s intent.
It took me 25 years to learn how to do a headstand, so it is something that I treasure. I am not sure of the spiritual and/or historical information regarding this subject – but what seems to work for me here in this forum is to share my personal experiences.
With that said, I prefer to drop the back part of my tongue down so that I can experience a full and easy breath. Then I focus on the front tip of my tongue at the top of your palate.
I think headstand is sometimes more about engaging Moola Bandha and having the alignment to do that effortlessly where you can feel an upward movement of energy. Of course do not turn your head, but I think you should focus more on the energy up and out of your heart instead of your tongue.
What do you think?
That’s an interesting question Tony.
I would be far more interested to hear the genesis of the question than I would be to hear about the tongue.
It is tough to provide AN answer to these sorts of questions as they are often tied tightly to intention. In the decade I have been practicing and studying (8 of them with Aadil) I have not seen a focus on the tongue at all in Sirsasana. I would imagine, from having asked other such potentially “obtuse” questions that the answer is "rest the tongue on the upper palate, just back from the inner edge of the front teeth, and allow it to widen from base to tip.
There are so many things to be working in that pose, which have nothing at all to do with the tongue, that there hasn’t been much time to even ponder the obtuse.
[QUOTE=TonyTamer;51829]It may sound a bit obtuse but if you believe in amrit and stimulation of the pituitary it becomes more relevant : I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on whether the tongue should be pressed flat above on the hard palate just behind the upper teeth or slightly curled further back on the soft palette while in the headstand. Lately I’ve been doing the latter after contemplating Kechari Mudra and it’s intent.[/QUOTE]
Kechari need to be learnt properly for it to have effect. What you are describing is not kechari. It is simply curling of the tongue. kechari involves a process where the tongue is placed in the nasal cavity above the soft palate. Under proper guidance the frenulum has to be stretched over a period time to enable the tongue to reach the nasal cavity.
The Mudra is a complete practice in itself. I have not heard about combining it with the Headstand.
Since the intent in Kechari is stimulation " in the nasal cavity beside the soft palette "- and the result is stimulating the pituitary ( which is also a result aimed for from a headstand ) and bringing on a secretion of amrita-( which in a headstand it is said that the amrita stops momentarily from being dripped into gastric fires ) then wouldn’t a tongue curled at the soft palette do those better than one pressed flat behind the teeth on the hard palette ? I’m not trying to do Kechari per se since I’m not ready for that yet but I’d like to move in that direction with something I’m already doing.
[QUOTE=TonyTamer;51840]Since the intent in Kechari is stimulation " in the nasal cavity beside the soft palette "- and the result is stimulating the pituitary ( which is also a result aimed for from a headstand ) and bringing on a secretion of amrita-( which in a headstand it is said that the amrita stops momentarily from being dripped into gastric fires ) then wouldn’t a tongue curled at the soft palette do those better than one pressed flat behind the teeth on the hard palette ? I’m not trying to do Kechari per se since I’m not ready for that yet but I’d like to move in that direction with something I’m already doing.[/QUOTE]
Hummmm… I would caution that yoga has the potential to damage when done improperly and without guidance. I would suggest that you do the sirshashan in itself without any expereiments.
I appreciate the prudence of what you say- but I am a born experimenter- I don’t- at this point- see or feel any harm in it . Namaste
[QUOTE=TonyTamer;51842]I appreciate the prudence of what you say- but I am a born experimenter- I don’t- at this point- see or feel any harm in it . Namaste[/QUOTE]
May the Lord walk with you. All the best.
So then Tony if I may sum. You want to experiment with a profoundly powerful tool which neither you nor I know in its entirety AND you want to do so regardless of cautions by those more experienced AND you want advice on the doing?
I’ll sit with Ravi on this one.
Yes, I was wondering if anyone had experience that way and wanted to share- if someone told me that they did the same thing and subsequently experienced aberrant symptoms- I’d like to hear about it- and vice versa. It’s great to have this forum and share-and I take advice very often- but I don’t see any harm- it’s a matter of an inch or so, and maybe the proper placement anyway for all I know- I do pulse in the direction of the pituitary and it feels fine. I am 58 and would like for my pituitary not to slow down much, plus , though I may be fooling myself- there is a slightly salty taste that is pleasant there and I have heard that amrita tastes that way. The long and short of it, Gordon, at this point having been doing it for a month or so, it seems inocuous at worst. I’m having to learn several things on my own- I try to proceed with caution and care but I want the next step always and there is not someone here to show me. I learned nauli from a retired circus performer, although Light on Yoga prepared me for it. I doubt that he thought of it as a cleansing exercise etc. but having lived his life in circuses ( and knowing some of the people in the old movie " Freaks " ) he probably learned from a yogi. My gurus are where I find them-the internet, in books, in person , in nature or just my intuition. I’ve had a few mishaps ( like too much breath retention and extreme forward bends ( frog ) with my double-herniated disks ) but recovery was a matter of days and that was years ago, and overwhelmingly I have reaped rewards for my efforts. I appreciate the concern and know that it is well-founded both in the heart and head but I’m doing well. Namaste
I do try and focus on alignment and wrapping my spine tightly- I have a firm and pleasant headstand that I’ve been doing for almost 40 years and I still experience new feelings- each day better, I could stay in it longer than I do ( 5 to 6 minutes ) with pleasure but in the words of BKS Iyengar , I am still a householder, meaning I am not planning celibacy. With all that familiarity in the pose I guess doing something different with my tongue is no big deal, it’s a new little path in my headstand world and I’m not neglecting the town to see what’s down the lane. Namaste
Nothing in yoga is innocuous.
And as far a a matter of inches go, getting punched in the nose is unpleasant but likely to lead to recovery. Having the nasal bone shoved into the cranial cavity, not so much. Also a matter of inches, by the way 
In fact, it’s ALL a matter of inches!
True enough for nasal bones but I’m not punching with a fist, I’m pulsing with soft tissue against/with the soft palette. I’m not exactly rushing in where angels fear to tread- as far as I can tell it’s not harmful and I’m a very sensitive guy paying attention to how I feel a lot. Compared to a punch in the nose I’d say it was a friendly handshake. Like I said I do take advice but I haven’t heard anything factual against it- I wanted to get Elizabeth into Hyperbaric Chambers after the proton therapy but the doctor , who had recommended the HC for one patient said it was contraindicated for Elizabeth, at this time, because it might nurture the cancer cells, if any, as well as the regular cells. I listen to advice but I like it to pass through logic and not just fear of the unknown. My own brother had Acromegaly that I diagnosed. That would’ve stayed undiagnosed for years maybe waiting for a doctor to notice the subtle changes. Sometimes you have to follow your leads- this is not acromegaly or cancer and is probably a good thing - it definitely doesn’t deserve censure at this point but observation. Why, Gordon, do you feel so strongly against it ? I know myself it’s not prudent but it’s not careless either. I’m not that prudent and I’m not that careless. Somewhere in between- I have always liked to try new things- if not , I’d still be lifting weights and directing my life energy forever downward. You are a very knowlegible guide here and I’ve learned from you gratefully but I’ve been to this cave and it’s not so dark. Namaste
I don’t feel strongly against it FOR YOU. As I’ve told my students, if you want “that” grip in sirsasana at home, that head placement, that pranayama at home, fine. In class it is a different story.
Here it is not so much the doing of something I don’t teach or practice. It is more my befuddlement around asking for advice and expecting a link to a double-blind study from a community that doesn’t exclusively operate from the empirical proofs of such things. Though your OP asked for thoughts and it seems that’s exactly what you’ve gotten
And I appreciate the thoughts but what I really wanted were thoughts based on either experience or hard data, eg. position of soft palette in relation to another sensitive organ etc. In the absence of of negative data I’ll have to keep doing what feels good, what seems to me to follow a logical sequence i.e. sirsasana stimulates the pituitary + Kechari mudra also does so by action near the soft palette + amrita is secreted by both those actions = a syncretism of effort towards the same goal. I obviously want to continue doing this seeing no harm in it and possible good. The only thoughts to the contrary have been ’ don’t walk where there is not solid ground '. I’m on tip-toes, my eyes are open and it feels fine. I’ll quit at the first sign something is wrong that could be attributable to this. Have you tried this ? Who told you not to and why ? Where is the instruction that is specifically against this ? These are questions for answers I posted for. Namaste
OMG and LOL, I decided to google headstand and the tongue and headstand and kechari mudra, to find stuff for this and to my honest chagrin I was 1st with this on yoga forums, but then reading down to more substantive postings I found this" Ashtanga Yoga: Practice and Philosophy By Gregor Maehle " page 123 , paragraph 4 where the two are associated for the purposes I thought they might be. It even places the tongue on the " upper back of the soft palette ".
OMG
I can only gather that your pituitary is out of balance and quite needy.
Or perhaps you’re just a serial stimulator.
LOL
Tony,
Not so obtuse, I curl and suck my tongue up into the soft palette in headstand and have been doing so for several years now. I learned that it gives me room to draw muscles in the throat and neck back tightly against the cervical vertebrae, improving alignment and lending a great deal of support. There is no harm in trying this and it can lead to a stronger, healthier headstand.
siva
TT,
Incidentally, I do the same during my neck warm up, retentions in pranayama and here and there in combination with other various asana for the same reason: changing the orientation of the musculature in the neck. It’s more compact.
siva
I appreciate the 1st hand experience- I’ll try and incorporate, BTW-Siva- I must say, and I’m usually very good with my hunches based on scanty evidence- Is your ancestry Arabic, say Lebanese ? Mine is.