Traped between worlds

Mindfulness Meditation
#1

Hi,

İ have been meditating for several years, it began after a drug experience during which İ experienced that everything is love. During the experience, İ was told by a friend experiencing the same thing: ‘you shouldn’t drink - it’s bad for you’.

İ got into meditation and fairly rapidly, within a few months, activated my prana or ki… İt’s like liquid sweetness, but also like steam or like burning celluloid. İt’s not quite any of these things.

Anyway, İ went through all sorts of painful and blissful transformations, and ended up blissfully happy, filled with love. Self-dissolved. İ was in heaven.

However, İ still craved alcohol. İ loved wine. İ drank a bottle…

The next day the blissful state İ was in had gone… İ started meditating again. As it was just a bottle, it didn’t take long before İ was back in the light, so to speak.

But this carried on, İ must have lost and found love three or four times. İ assured myself each time it worked ‘don’t worry, it will always work eventually’. İ decided (this was at a point when İ was in ordinary consciousness, trying to reach love again), ok, İ will drink this Christmas, however much İ want, and afterwards İ quit for good. So İ did, İ drank and partied, also took some E… had a fairly miserable time… because you only think you enjoy being drunk; it’s really not so great as the desire makes you believe.

And İ did quit. So far so good.

That was more than five years ago. İ have been meditating daily ever since… for the first two years or so it was probably the worst, just dead flat. But to be honest the feelings of defeat İ’m having now and have been having now for years are worse because at first İ still had faith.

And that’s the real pain - there’s nowhere to go. My body keeps on trying to follow the breath, İ can’t back out as İ don’t exist. İ’m just phenomena, though suffering seems to be the main phenomenon. What does one do, where does one go, after one has lived in heaven and cast himself down?

Physically, İ have prana trying to move up the sushummna, painfully. All the times İ reached the state of peace, this happened too, İ was downcast and downhearted etc, and there came a point where İ would take a long breath, hold the breath till İ thought İ would drown, and then unblock the sushumna. After this, my lungs would fill with light and my breath would no longer be volitional.

But İ’ve been at this stage for years now, each day straining in mental and physical agony. İ have begun considering ant-depressants or even suicide. Because İ think İ’m in hell now, and İ don’t think İ will ever get out. Suicide would just take me somewhere worse and hurt my family and friends. Anti-depressants İ fear because İ am worried they would end any chance İ had of becoming enlightened. Which is the best thing there could possibly be, and better than that, because it’s better than anyone could imagine.

İ also worry about seeking medical help because İ don’t want to end up in an asylum.

İ would be so grateful for any advice.

İ keep telling myself ‘it could happen tomorrow. But it doesn’t’. One thing which has changed is that İ was smoking a lot of cannabis at the time when İ was successful, and this helped, İ think, in letting go of subconscious baggage, though İ also think the actual point of success wasn’t when İ was stoned. İ don’t have access to that now, or only very rarely.

İ’m so tired. İt’s as if the whole point of my life was an elaborate torture.

#2

Hi
welcome at yoga forum a good place to talk.
The first advice of good meditation teacher, check it with doctor if meditation is OK for you. The second advice meditation is non goal oriented activity. I do not think that cannabis or suicide is solution.
Take care
Ivana

#3

Thanks for your reply.

İ am afraid it is too late to find out if meditating is for me. As İ explained, İ can’t stop. İ don’t choose to follow my breath, it just happens. İ can’t stop meditating.

İ got some hope seeing the animated diagram of kundalini someone posted on another thread. İ’ve seen them before but never been able to reconcile the diagram with my experiences, but this one does.

Ok, there’s a chakra in the centre of the chest and just over the last two days İ found myself kind of… collapsing the lungs to get the energy through. İt’s the same way the oesophagus moves food, İ guess, except this is a bit more painful. But İ felt that particular chakra, in that place. Like an orb. So seeing that diagram makes me think İ might be making progress, because İ don’t think there was much movement there before. İt sort of gives me a mental image of what’s going on and that’s reassuring. İ’m still afraid of going back to my room and what will happen, the writhing and squirming and gentle pains repeated to maddening effect, the hopelessness of it all. İ guess İ am looking for sympathy in a way. But if this works as it did before… then it will be worth it. İ would cross a thousand oceans yadda yadda

Thankyou, no, cannabis or suicide are probably not solutions. Thanks for making me smile.

Goal oriented activity? Again, İ am aware of this, but it’s difficult when one is in actual physical pain and has no choice but to meditate. İ repeat: İ am not living with the same illusion of free will as İ used to be and most people are, so İ don’t have the illusion of choice that most people do e.g. the choice not to meditate, the choice to think this or not think that. İ’m halfway between self and selfless, and İ seem to be stuck. And try as İ might, İ can’t seem to not want the goal of being out of pain. My mind won’t respond to my will in this case. Look, İ who am writing this am just a thought, the real me doesn’t exist as anything which can be described, which endures or has will, it’s just light and feeling and sound and touch and scent (and nibbana maybe to be realised). İ, i.e. this thought, tries to accept the pain but other parts of my mind won’t.

You are right though. İ just shudder at the suffering behind and before me.

İt’s such a beautiful world, you know, so fine and savage and sweet. You should cherish it, be thankful you are not under glass, kept from it. But İ do not want to be a cautionary tale. İ haven’t given up yet.

İ guess that’s exactly what İ must do. Except İ can’t. İ can only hope to wear myself threadbare and begone. And then İ will be. İ have a heart that promises endlessly to bleed again.

İt is a hard thing to crave tears and have one’s body deny them to one, over and over again.

#4

trappedbetweenworlds,

“İ am afraid it is too late to find out if meditating is for me.”

Meditation is compatible with everybody. If it is not working, the problem lies within you, not within meditation. If you are still craving all kinds of cravings, then one should question whether one has really come to know of meditation. Even if you have a few glimpses of it - if you are meditative for an hour or two, and non-meditative for twenty three hours, how can you expect meditation to be capable of triggering any kind of transformation ?

Most of your problems have very simple solutions, though in practice it can be tremendously difficult. The mind has a whole history of programming behind it - it will want to resist transformation at almost any cost. The moment we even take a small step outside of our comfort zone, fear arises, now you want to retreat immediately back into the known. A human being is a creature of habit, and unless one is willing to initiate tremendous effort and energy into the work of coming to more awareness, then his system is not going to cooperate so easily. That is what the purpose of practice is - it is simply to help destroy the psychological obstacles which are preventing you from coming to more awareness. Once these obstacles have been dissolved, your freedom and liberation happens as a natural consequence - you do not have to do anything about it. So the fact that you are still suffering shows that you have not yet identified what these psychological obstacles are. And they can only be recognized, not intellectually, not through logic - but directly in your living experience. You will have to observe what is happening within you from moment to moment, and try to come to an understanding of what is happening within you which is creating all of the trouble. Once you can remain a witness to the mind without attachment, then you will be able to see clearly into what are the obstacles which have been the causes of your sufferings. But if you try to remain a silent witness in the beginning, one will find it is almost impossible. The mind is scattered in all directions. That is why in yoga - some preparation is needed. The physical postures, pranayam (breathing exercises), bandhas (locks), kriyas (purification exercises), mudras (seals) - all of these are just different methods to try and prepare your mind and body for meditation.

Your problems can be solved by your own hands, but I have to be realistic. Unless you are willing to initiate tremendous discipline into practice - there is very little possibility of moving beyond the causes of your sufferings. So it is all just a question of your desire, whether you have a sincere desire to do the work that is necessary, or whether you are more interested in just finding some escape from reality. If you are more interested in finding an escape from reality - then you may have some temporary relief. But as long as the root causes of suffering remain, then one’s sufferings will happen again and again - it is just a simple cause and effect situation.

If you absorb yourself intensely into the practice of yoga, with consistency - practicing everyday with the right attitude, then it is possible that just within three months, much of what is creating suffering for you now will be dissolved. I used to suffer myself from great depression for five years. When I became an ascetic, I dropped everything and became absorbed into the practice. Within six months, my five years of depression had dissolved completely. But simply to be without depression - you will find that still it is not satisfying, something is missing. So I continued to investigate deeper for five more years until I came to my awakening. So there are many dimensions which are involved in the spiritual process. And the kinds of problems that you are having can be dissolved in just a short span of time if you are willing to initiate the effort that is needed, it has much more to do with the intensity of your desire rather than a matter of time.

#5

Thanks for your reply, AmirMourad.

İn the last few days İ decided to stop meditating, or rather not stop, because İ can’t, but stop lying on my bed all day trying to focus on my breath. İ don’t think this will help though, İ think this evening when İ am back in my room, my practice will take over again, again İ will convince myself it’s just a matter of time, effort, again İ will feel a little energy rise into my belly, to my chest, feel a momentary channel open to my heart and the lightness there, feel the top of my head tingle, the promise of thoughts stilling… as İ remember, when all this worked out, when the trickle became a flood and İ was swallowed by the light, become utterly new and whole and alive.

But İ am guessing what will happen is that the trickle will be all, İ will keep striving fruitlessly, eventually to sink and contract my body in the pain at the base of my spine, in my guts. İ will attempt to cry but as İ strain to weep not enough energy will reach my heart, and İ will instead take a breath and struggle, tell myself not to struggle, try to be with the hurt to not be the hurt to watch the hurt… and my mind will laugh at me. İt seems to block me at every turn.

When İ succeeded last time İ realised that my mind had never in fact been hostile to me, this was an illusion caused by thoughts passing through blockages and being distorted by them. However in the moment, now, knowing that doesn’t help at all.

İ meditate for several hours every day. All my free time is spent meditating, and if not then it is spent in activities İ cannot concentrate on, always telling myself that soon things will work out, always seeing how wonderful this life would be if the energy passed through its channels and brought me to the peace İ knew before. The hope is the most painful thing, perhaps.

This has gone on for over five years. İf İ wasn’t experiencing this now, İ wouldn’t have thought this kind of suffering possible, not for such a long time.

Yes, it feels as if my mind is resisting, it feels as if it is winning. Has won. İ have no strength left. İ watch my thoughts, but they never detach; İ never come to peace.

As İ say, previously, there was a point at which the pain in the small of my back, which feels like a sore, like a valve struggling with pressure, dissolved into a sweetness which rose up to my heart and head and all of my body. İ lost the illusion of control of my body and went into various yoga poses (which İ never learned). Then everything was bliss. But İ had a last attachment to alcohol, and drinking killed it. But then İ struggled through again, eventually to quit alcohol completely. İsn’t it cruel that when İ finally managed to give up alcohol, İ no longer had or have the strength to raise kundalini again?

İ have decided to seek medical help, perhaps use anti-depressants… will İ still be able to raise the energy on anti-depressants, or will they destroy my chances of enlightenment? İ am hoping they will give me the strength and clarity to get over this final hurdle. Some form of counselling may help too, but there’s a six month waiting list on my country’s health service.

‘Your problems can be solved by your own hands, but I have to be realistic. Unless you are willing to initiate tremendous discipline into practice - there is very little possibility of moving beyond the causes of your sufferings. So it is all just a question of your desire, whether you have a sincere desire to do the work that is necessary, or whether you are more interested in just finding some escape from reality.’

İ want to get through this as İ did before. İf reality means the pain in the small of my back, yes, İ want to escape it. Do you understand that İ can’t relax - İ haven’t been able to lie back and relax for over five years? Because İ begin meditating again. İ feel it now sitting at this desk, my belly is contracting and trying to move the energy, İ am aching. There is no respite from it. And İ can’t tell my body to stop doing these things, it simply ignores me.

Why is it İ had the strength before and not now? That’s what İ can’t understand. İ’m doing everything İ did when İ was successful… except that now İ remember clearly, İ DID make my major breakthoughs when İ was smoking cannabis. People may disaprove, but it’s been used for this purpose in İndia for thousands of years. İt loosens the bonds of ego temporarily and allows mental blocks to be worked through. But İ am not in the situation İ was in before, when İ was working a part time job and living in my own house. İ had time and security then, and even then it was incredibly difficult to progress. But İ did. Now İ can’t.

AmirMourad: do you recommend İ go back to meditating today, and just keep on going? İ meditate lying down, as this was how İ achieved success before, and is less painful for me. Sometimes İ vary it with seated meditation, but it’s very painful to keep my spine straight. Maybe İ need to force myself to do this, as İ do remember one particular day of success (As İ said, İ’ve got through and then lost several times) when İ was at the end of my tether and just forced myself to sit and meditate all day and it eventually worked.

But this time İ’ve been at the end of my tether countless times, and nothing gives. İ just writhe and whimper in despair but even the despair won’t come, won’t pass through me.

'Once you can remain a witness to the mind without attachment, then you will be able to see clearly into what are the obstacles which have been the causes of your sufferings. ’

Yes, absolutely. But in my experience this doesn’t happen until the energy is channelled to the head. Until then, there’s not enough energy in the head to allow one’s consciousness to rest there without getting involved in thoughts. This is exactly what happened to me several times before - when the energy is raised, İ become the witness and it all unfolds. At present İ get little splutters of energy in my head; İ can feel it in there, trying to expand.

İ spend my meditating hours writhing like a serpent, which İ think is where kundalini gets the association, trying to move energy up my spine. İ can feel the channel itself, but it’s always tight and painful, especially at the base of the spine, and it won’t seem to open enough to pass energy through. This has been happening for a long, long time.

Thanks again for your good and wise response.

#6

‘And the kinds of problems that you are having can be dissolved in just a short span of time if you are willing to initiate the effort that is needed, it has much more to do with the intensity of your desire rather than a matter of time.’

What do you mean, practically speaking? Do you mean longer meditation sessions, ignoring the pain more, no cigarette breaks, more effort to focus on the breath and ignore thoughts?

İ struggled to maintain focus on my breath so hard two days ago that İ twisted my neck and couldn’t move it to one side for a day.

#7

İ know what you mean. İ am on the same page as you. But something in me seems to have died. İ put all my strength in for years and the boulder keeps rolling back down the hill.

Give me hope. Give me strength.

#8

Please help. İ am in pain.

İ’m sorry for begging like this. İ’m not much fun at the moment.

#9

I/you/we are understanding the power of aum/om followed (may take time: karma) by Shanthi, shanti, shanti. Nothing else.

#10

The Hatha Yoga Pradipika gives us steps to follow on the road to health.

Briefly, the first step is to purify the body and open the nadiis. Then the chakras are purified. Then the sushumna channel is purified. Then and only then can the concept of kundalini be looked at.

If these steps are omitted and kundalini prematurely forced, then there might be problems. At best, the practitioner has fleeting glimpses of bliss which cannot be applied to real life and are therefore impractical, at worst serious injury may result.

Generally speaking, we should always feel rejuvenated and positive after practice. If this is consistently not the case, then it’s time to re evaluate your practice.

Most if not all practitioners get to a point when they feel like they can’t go on. The Gita is an excellent text to refer to in those times. It reminds us not only to keep going, but HOW to keep going, when you might feel like you really just can’t do it anymore…

#11

i’ve no words. i cant/we cant. you got to heal the tights and pains.
get into Sushumna. surrender. the breath. i’m damn sure 'bout all the petals of the lotus going to bloom bright. keep in touch.

#12

Thanks for your kind and heartfelt advice.

Hi, Terence:

‘Most if not all practitioners get to a point when they feel like they can’t go on.’

Yes, and the times before when İ succeeded, İ went through this too. And then it just got better suddenly. This time İ have been in the same place for months with no improvement. İ have nothing left to give this process, but there’s no giving up either. The pain just goes on and on.

Hi Bjoy:

’ i’m damn sure 'bout all the petals of the lotus going to bloom bright. ’

So was İ. Once you have tasted this, and the times İ succeeded it wasn’t just a taste, it was a completely new world, all doubts erased, become true self, everything luminous… once you have been that, and lost it… actually, İ could handle starting again, just being healthy and having to start meditating agaiın, but İ am in constant physical pain at the entrance to the sushumna, and in my guts, and in my head, and more subtly the torture of only being able to partially concentrate on anything.

İ’ll break it down into more detail. Ok, as İ sit here, İ am constantly battling with my head, my brain İ guess, to concentrate on the screen. But İ don’t have the choice to give up battling either. When İ focus on my breath, my attention is pulled away from the breath and to the scrunched up muscles around the small of my back, and to the pressure in my head. After a while meditating, my body starts writhing left and right like a serpent, like trying to move energy through a closed channel. After several hours İ give up and try to weep, but the energy for tears is in the small of my back and won’t rise, so İ just take a breath and sink back. But İ can’t just relax back, even into despair. İ try to read or something but then İ go into great wracking contractions. Eventually İ am spent and İ sleep.

Those are my days.

When İ succeeded before, a moment came when İ took a deep breath, held till almost suffocating, something gave and İ realised that my sense of physical self was anchored in the small of my back, which was why following the breath was interpreted my my mind as holding on to that place while breathing. İ.e. my brain thinks the small of my back is where ‘İ’ am, and that it is ‘İ’ who have to follow the breath. Hence the pain. But this time it just goes on - İ know what the problem is but İ have no practical way of improving the situation.

The only times İ have had any relief is when İ move from one place to another or have to work see friends etc (which İ cannot enjoy) and İ get occasional feelings of lightness, occasional mild energy bursts in my heart or head, and İ convince myself that İ am almost there. Then when İ go to meditate the same thing happens.

At the moment my only vague hope is seeing a doctor and getting anti-depressants, which İ was on before years ago, and on which, looking back, İ first learned about the benefits of concentration and stilling the mind. İ hope they will lift me out of this vicious cycle so that İ can meditate again.

Does anyone have any opinion or experience of meditating on anti-depressants - will they screw up my system even more and prevent me from ever getting out of this, or can they be compatible with meditation?

Because at present İ seem to be stuck in some kind of loop. İ despaired before but never to this extent. İ honestly think my life is over… actually, to give you some perspective, İ tell myself my life is over to comfort me. The reality seems far worse. İ think İ am in hell. İ didn’t believe in hell before, because İ thought a benevolent God would never torture someone forever. İ have sinned but many are forgiven who seem to have sinned more deeply.

İn any case, the times when İ got through, my experience wasn’t of being rewarded for effort or goodness, my experience was that God is unconditional love which we are only blinded to, blinded through an ignorance which has no beginning and no cause (that we were never ejected from Eden, that such thinking is reasoning back from the present moment, when in fact our problems are in the present moment and not in the past). My experience was that all are loved and always have been. İ was so certain of this - which İ guess is why İ drank alcohol again, İ was convinced that this process would always work, would always be there for me.

İt is helping a little just to talk here. Thanks for listening.

Terence, you said:

'Briefly, the first step is to purify the body and open the nadiis. Then the chakras are purified. Then the sushumna channel is purified. Then and only then can the concept of kundalini be looked at.

If these steps are omitted and kundalini prematurely forced, then there might be problems. At best, the practitioner has fleeting glimpses of bliss which cannot be applied to real life and are therefore impractical, at worst serious injury may result.’

This sounds very sensible and practical. But all İ hear is ‘you are broken and cannot be fixed’.

İ did it before, just through meditating, exactly the same as now, and that was a huge struggle. İ guess İ drank too much alcohol before quitting and İ permanently blocked the channels and chakras, while leaving kundalini still permanently active. That’s my thought.

But there’s no accepting this. You see İ keep writing when there is nothing more to say? Because İ am still alive and my life is banging my head against a wall.

Could anti-depressants help me?

Thanks again.

#13

Bjoy:

Though İ don’t think it will help me, because İ have already clung to so much of beauty and truth and goodness to lift me, to no avail… it sounds strange but these things are swallowed up in the small of my back before they reach me…

Anyway I did want to say that your second message especially was very sweet. Thankyou for it. İ expect your practice has been or will be successful.

#14

trapped,

Forget about meditation completely. Because if you are using it without the proper attitude, it will simply complicate what is already a complicated situation. Like any tool, it can be used in a thousand and one different ways. If you are using meditation as an escape from the problems of life, then it is only going to enhance your sufferings even more. Without the proper spirit flowing through your practice, what could have been medicine has now become poison. Up till now - all of your so called “meditation” has only been for the sake of creating more and more misery.

So leave meditation aside completely for now. Before even considering something like meditation - some groundwork is needed to prepare you for meditation. First - you will have to create a proper vessel out of your mind and body. As you are - your vessel is full of all kinds of “impurities”, and your mind filled with countless psychological obstacles. So before even considering that the garden will blossom - you will have to cut through the weeds. For this - there are several methods to help create a thorough purification of the mind and body. This is what I mean when I have said that, if you want, your problems have simple solutions, although allowing them to manifest may be difficult. You will have to become involved in practice, and not just any kind of practice, but the right kind of practice. Because you can practice, but practice in such a way that it only helps create more and more misery in your life. And that is what has been happening - you have been trying to practice “meditation”, and still you have remained the same.

#15

Why did it work before though? Why before and not now? Did İ just drink too much alcohol and poison my system?

Please don’t take this the wrong way, İ am grateful for your time, but please listen now. As İ said again and again (it is so odd that no one has ever listened to this every time İ say it and İ can’t see why?) İ can’t stop meditating. My body does it automatically. Last night İ tried to stop and read a book - my body wouldn’t let me. İ can’t concentrate on any other activity.

Why is it that when İ say İ can’t stop meditating, people’s advice is to stop meditating? İf İ could do that it would be great. But İ am not in full control of my body. The kundalini is already rising, it is done and İ can’t stop it. İt is constant pain.

You are probably right about the psychological stuff, and thus İ am going to see a doctor and get medication and counselling.

#16

When you’re up for it, just start back at the beginning, forget your past training and any pitfalls you’ve encountered. Approach it as a new, fresh beginner. Zen mind, beginners mind…

#17

[QUOTE=trapped between worlds;63388]Why did it work before though? Why before and not now? Did İ just drink too much alcohol and poison my system?

Please don’t take this the wrong way, İ am grateful for your time, but please listen now. As İ said again and again (it is so odd that no one has ever listened to this every time İ say it and İ can’t see why?) İ can’t stop meditating. My body does it automatically. Last night İ tried to stop and read a book - my body wouldn’t let me. İ can’t concentrate on any other activity.

Why is it that when İ say İ can’t stop meditating, people’s advice is to stop meditating? İf İ could do that it would be great. But İ am not in full control of my body. The kundalini is already rising, it is done and İ can’t stop it. İt is constant pain.

You are probably right about the psychological stuff, and thus İ am going to see a doctor and get medication and counselling.[/QUOTE]

Well, its natural that you don’t want to stop right now, the intuition of self healing is at work. I would just advice re-evaluating and re-structuring your practice, preferably with the help of a good teacher.

I know that in Chinese herbalism for example, certain herbs would be prescribed to balance the flow of chi/prana, together with acupuncture. For practitioners who have experienced unpleasantness from chi gung exercises, this would be very effective.

A good Hatha Yoga teacher, would look at the structure of your body, ie the alignment of the central organs and muscular skeletal structure. If the stomach is compressed by mis alignment and digestion impaired, how can the emotions be balanced? If the muscles of the neck tense, how can circulation be flowing to the brain allowing for the clear thought? These basics must be addressed.

This is simple and straight forward, yet most western doctors omit these simple facts, and are quick to prescribe tablets that could potentially lead to life long addictions.
Not to deter you from western medicine, but do bear this in mind. A good doctor will recommend herbal medicine such as valerian for sleeplessness, before prescribing heavier stuff.

I will emphasize, do try to find a good teacher in your meditation practice, one who can give you direct guidance in times like these.
Om Shanti to you.

#18

Anything can be dangerous including meditation, getting out of bed can be dangerous, a side effect of meditation is blissfulness the purpose is awareness. Perhaps seeking euphoric feelings from meditation one has become encumbered with the practice. Reexamining foundations of the physical, energy control, consciousnesses and reapplying proper techniques/methodology of the yogic sciences may be helpful.

#19

To my dear new friends,

İ got through.

After posting here yesterday, and talking with a friend, İ felt the energy start to rise. İ rushed home to meditate, not really believing, because my spirit had been crushed so many times.

İ didn’t succeed at first, though the pain seemed lessened slightly. Eventually İ sat and tried to read on the porch of my cabin (İ am in Turkey, having taken a month’s holiday to meditate). Gradually İ found myself absorbed in the scenery, in the light which brushes the tall field grasses here in the evening. İ spent maybe twenty minutes half peaceful, half mistrustful, attention still tied to the pain.

İ went in to meditate and the pain began to dissolve, İ felt the energy move to my heart and head, and gradually İ was able to detach from my thoughts again and my thoughts realised no-self.

İ still have a long way to go, but İ am not in the agony İ was in for so long. İ also now remember this part of the process from the other times, İ went through similar pains, but not so prolonged as this. İ know now that peace will deepen.

The agony is the energy moving through the sushumna and through the chakras. İ expect that proper yoga preparation would lessen this pain, so please do not let my experiences discourage you from walking this path. İt’s the best course of action; since encountering the peace at the heart of this path, İ have never been in any doubt of that, in all my doubts about me personally and my ability to progress, İ have never stopped wanting, needing this.

Namaste

İ bow to that which you are

#20

Terence:

‘Well, its natural that you don’t want to stop right now’

Thankyou for your advice, and for visiting this thread again to help. Thanks to all of you, and all who read and felt for me but couldn’t find words, even those who thought badly of me and turned away, even that came from compassion, even cynicism and anger, it’s all love. Everything is the path. Everything is encouragement, no note of concern or compassion is lost, or was lost on me in my suffering.

İt is important to engage with this though - İ really couldn’t stop, want or no. There is no ‘me’, there is no ‘want’. Those are misinterpretations which co-exist with suffering.

Part of my pain was feeling ‘forced’ to meditate, feeling out of control. But there is no ‘İ’ who ever was in control. The feeling of control is an illusion which İ was half in and half beyond. İt is dissolving now, and with it, suffering dissolves too.

Thank you all for your concern and advice. İ am so glad this had a happy… not ending, still a long way to go… you know what İ mean. İ’m glad İ didn’t leave a sad story on your forum, discouraging others.

İ do recommend that you practice in a strong supportive environment with a good teacher, though İ know that’s easier said than done. İ jumped into the deep end, or rather was pushed by fate, and while İ don’t believe the Goddess ever lets one drown, she has no choice but to watch us struggle with the sea if we are unprepared for the ebb and flow of these waves.