Uncertified Yoga Teacher

Yoga Teacher Training
#1

I just came back from the series of yoga workshops and I met a man there. He is teaching Iyengar yoga for decades and absolutely does not believe in any kind of yoga certification. He is not going to get one. In his opinion yoga alliance is just a joke as well as many other teaching programs.

I kinda agree that if one is doing and teaching yoga for decades, he probably will learn very little from 200 ryt training. Also there are tons of books, dvd and great workshops available, as well as self practice. It is more affordable to get a all books and dvds by Iyengar rather to go to Pune. Well, even regular 200 ryt is some thing like $3000… and probably there is a fee to renew it every year.

I’m thinking about getting certified but this rip-off thing is something what is holding me. I do not want to pay bunch of money just to hear again something I’ve already know or not interested in (like chanting).

Would you rather attend workshops that offer interesting curriculum or would you let Yoga Alliance to set up your curriculum?

#2

I’m a little mad at Yoga Alliance right now as they won’t let me count my 50 + hours of Reiki training toward contact hours. I even wrote an appeal stating my case that it has really helped my students during shavasana. But the answer was still no.

But, to share a story, I have loved gardening for many years and read tons of books and went to many workshops. I had an opportunity to go through Master Gardener training and I did. I went into it thinking, “How much more could I learn?” Boy was I surprised about what I didn’t know. I was ultimately glad I took this next step. So, I do see the benefit of training and becoming certified. And with the friend you met that teaches Iyengar, do you know if he is a good teacher? Just because someone has practiced and taught doesn’t mean they are a good and knowledgeable teacher.

#3

Not sure how this works in the US- is registation with an organisation such as YA compulsory or can anyone call themselves a “yoga teacher” regardless of training? Can anyone elucidate?

#4

Yes, you do not “need” training to be called a yoga teacher. However to get certified and be able to use the initials R.Y.T.(registered yoga teacher) you must go through teacher training and take part in contact hours for continuing education. Much depends on the area you live in. West and East coast, going through teacher training is the difference between teaching and unemployment. Midwest and south is not so much. Many studios will hire you based on experience.

#5

Thanks, I wasn’t aware of that. And the Yoga Alliance is the only official institute that is able to grant this qualification R.Y.T.?

Interesting.

#6

[QUOTE=CityMonk;39338]I just came back from the series of yoga workshops and I met a man there. He is teaching Iyengar yoga for decades and absolutely does not believe in any kind of yoga certification. He is not going to get one. In his opinion yoga alliance is just a joke as well as many other teaching programs.

If this teacher is sharing Iyengar Yoga he must be certificated in that system
so I dont understand how he could be sharing this without a certificate from pune. You dont have to go to pune to be certificated by the way.(there may be certain instances where this is not true) I see many teacher websites claiming to be Iyengar trained or this trained and they are being less than honest , what they perhaps mean is that they went to a workshop or a few classes in whatever style they claim to be trained in.
If you think you can learn from books dvds just as well, would it not be as well to share this revelation with your students and stop teaching them . as by your definition they are being ripped off;-)
I agree a certificate is just a piece of paper. However If that piece of paper was from certain schools I would have more faith than from others. I also agree that the Yoga Alliance is not particuarly credible.
peace and love

#7

If someone is teaching yoga, they’re a yoga teacher.

Most of us do not teach yoga and no amount of papers, fancy websites, cool DVDs, or letters after our names will change that.

#8

Just curious if those who have been through teacher training have felt it was worth the time and money regarding what you actually learned, and not regarding whatever credentials you received.

I went to one workshop at our studio that was part of teacher training, but students were allowed to come too. It was an all day affair, and I felt the 8 hours could easily have been condensed into 2 hours with better preparation.

It makes me wonder if that’s the case with the 200 hour course they sell for $3,000. Are those 200 hours jam packed with good things or is there much redundancy, teaching what the student already knows, and wasted time?

I did not go to the all-day seminar for ethics training which was also part of the teacher course. I had a hard time understanding why anyone would need to pay $150.00 to learn ethics that could easily be gleaned from a book, and that are a natural part of any person of goodwill’s life, or any person who has had any religious training or experience. I happened to talk to one of the attendee’s of the class and she said it was pretty much a rehash of a three hour class she previously attended from the same teacher, and that it was very repetitious, drawn out, and gruelling.

So if this is the case, it seems ironic to me that someone could charge $150.00 to teach about asteya, especially if some students already paid for the same information in other classes, and if the time could have been better used and not wasted.

This same teacher complained in an article in a yoga magazine that too many want to be teachers too soon, and yet he is part of the organization at my studio that is getting $3,000 per student for teacher training with a minimum requirement of having practiced two years, or less with the approval of a teacher.

I understand people need to be paid for what they do, and studios need to cover their overhead, but I also have a cynical side that makes me question whether something it truly legitimate and necessary or whether it is a racket.

#9

I believe it is a personal decision as to how a professional chooses to certify or register in their field, bearing in mind that consumer often use such things in their “shopping”. No piece of paper insures your ability and no absence of one insures your incompetence.

Note that Yoga Alliance is a registry not a certifying body. As such, they’ve developed some criteria under which many different schools, many different teachers, many different styles can fit within the Registered Yoga Teacher (RYT) construct. It is not perfect and it is not certification, but it is far better than nothing at all and we have to start growing somewhere. And this is an important step BECAUSE anyone can call themselves a “yoga teacher”, unlike other professions.

I personally believe that a teacher of yoga should continue to pursue their learning and understanding of the practice AND its conveyance. Not every training is conceived and offered in integrity and the same holds true for workshops. But this doesn’t mean we toss them both out just as we don’t stop going out for dinner after a food poisoning - we simply don’t go to the same restaurant.

For most students taking a 200 hour training, they are likely overwhelmed at about the 40 hour mark and often that wave doesn’t ebb. So packing information into the time isn’t as important as it seems. And this is especially true since new teachers will be working with people’s bodies and be in a position to harm if they are careless. I would much prefer a teacher who is very sound in teaching ten postures then one weakly prepared to teach 200.

As it relates to ethics, those definitions in the “outer world” are not synonymous with the ones in yoga. For example not taking a hammer from your neighbor is not the same Asteya as not getting enough rest as a teacher and robbing your students of your best self the next day when teaching. Satya is not merely telling “the” truth but it is a willingness to part our own coloring (built in ignorance) and dealing with the lies we tell ourselves. Ethics is not about being a “good” person for being a good person can be programmed and termed “politeness”. It is not being good, it is having a level of self-respect, a level of respect for the practice, and a level of respect for the student. “Good” people cross that line daily.

When you think you’re green, you’re ripening. When you think you’re ripe, you’re rotten.

#10

On the one hand, I like the idea of self-study and learning on my own. But on the other hand, I know I could not have done yoga properly by using a DVD. There are simply too many things that can go wrong in a pose, and I would not have been aware of them. In fact, I think that after my experieces with private lessons, that I think the student needs that as well.

So I can understand that to be a teacher, a more experienced teacher would be necessary to thrain them, and it might be hard to learn it all on their own.

But I look at the economics of a 200 hour teacher certification.

12 students x $3,000 equals $36,000.

That’s a pretty sizeable chunk of change, and it seems to me that those same 12 people could pool their resources and hire instructors privately as needed for much less.

200 hours is 25 8-hour days, and if there are 12 students paying $3,000, that comes out to $1,440 per day the group of 12 students are paying their teacher/studio.

Couldn’t a qualified teacher be found for $400 per day? If so, that would lower the overall cost for all 12 students to $10,000, or just $833 each, which is a lot bettr than $3,000.

#11

A true yoga training can’t simply be reduced to economics nor can it be rationalized (in its entirety). But I acknowledge that a very larger percentage of trainings don’t meet this criteria so…

I believe the cited mathematics omit several variables in both fixed and variable costs.

If I’m charging for eight hours at my hourly rate that would be $720. And let’s say, just for the sake of lively banter, that I extend the courtesy of a bulk discount of 15% so now $620, not $400 (teaching students is a different skill set than teaching teachers and it’s ludicrous to think that one who is adept at teaching the former is automatically adept at teaching the latter).

And we’ll hold this training at someone’s home so that person can pay for the energy being used, the space, the garbage, the water. Better yet, let’s hold the training in that person’s place of business and she’ll simply have to rearrange 200 hours of her business to accommodate the training. So now there is “other” revenue lost (opportunity costs).

And of course this other person will be providing the manual. Which will likely take her more hours than I’d care to estimate - not just to compile the manual but to get photos or illustrations and back the manual up with some years of sound practice (yes, beyond Asana).

And as though this isn’t enough, a student dedicated enough to the practice to opt for a teacher training likely has a level of commitment (or perhaps should) such that they have received something rewarding, powerful, deep, from the place they’ve chosen (though this is obviously not always the case). Ergo their thought may often turn to ways they can help keep the studio open without donating their earnings (though for some that too is valid). And yes this is a way studios earn revenue, pay teachers, and remain open; serving the community surrounding them.

Some trainings are expensive and worthless. And frankly a worthless training (to me) is expensive no matter what it costs. So I would advise finding a worthwhile training in the first place. The rest is relative minutia.

#12

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;39476]A true yoga training can’t simply be reduced to economics nor can it be rationalized (in its entirety). But I acknowledge that a very larger percentage of trainings don’t meet this criteria so…

I believe the cited mathematics omit several variables in both fixed and variable costs.

If I’m charging for eight hours at my hourly rate that would be $720. And let’s say, just for the sake of lively banter, that I extend the courtesy of a bulk discount of 15% so now $620, not $400 (teaching students is a different skill set than teaching teachers and it’s ludicrous to think that one who is adept at teaching the former is automatically adept at teaching the latter).

And we’ll hold this training at someone’s home so that person can pay for the energy being used, the space, the garbage, the water. Better yet, let’s hold the training in that person’s place of business and she’ll simply have to rearrange 200 hours of her business to accommodate the training. So now there is “other” revenue lost (opportunity costs).

And of course this other person will be providing the manual. Which will likely take her more hours than I’d care to estimate - not just to compile the manual but to get photos or illustrations and back the manual up with some years of sound practice (yes, beyond Asana).

And as though this isn’t enough, a student dedicated enough to the practice to opt for a teacher training likely has a level of commitment (or perhaps should) such that they have received something rewarding, powerful, deep, from the place they’ve chosen (though this is obviously not always the case). Ergo their thought may often turn to ways they can help keep the studio open without donating their earnings (though for some that too is valid). And yes this is a way studios earn revenue, pay teachers, and remain open; serving the community surrounding them.

Some trainings are expensive and worthless. And frankly a worthless training (to me) is expensive no matter what it costs. So I would advise finding a worthwhile training in the first place. The rest is relative minutia.[/QUOTE]

Gordon, thank you for accounting insights. That is funny, but I always having problems to understand you and to extract the main point.Maybe language and cultural barrier. I know that you are smart guy…can i try to rephrase your speech?

Let me try… as I understood you point is:

1)- organizations that provide training “sell” knowledge, manuals,etc, and they have to break even (at leas) or to make some profit (at best). Hence, thats why the certification courses cost so much.

2)- ones one got certification for lets say $1000 he can easily back this cost
and start to make profit.

#13

Let’s say we paid the $620 per day. And regarding the space–we find a dance studio, armory, gymnasium, or some suitable space where they would be happy to rent it for $80 per day, so our cost is $700 per day for a total of $17,500 or roughly $1,400 per student.

This approach requires a lot of “sweat equity”, so let’s say that one of the 12 students is the coordinator of it all, and in exchange, she doesn’t have to pay any costs, so the costs are divided among the other 11 students, which brings the cost to about $1,600 per student.

So we’ve still cut the costs in half.

But I think we could do better.

I don’t think we need you for the entire 200 hours. We will incorporate DVDs, books, and other materials into our program. We will go to extra classes and analyze other teachers and have meetings and discussions teaching each other what we’ve learned. We will then approach our hired teachers knowing better what we need to know.

Perhaps we would only need you for 50 hours. And maybe 50 hours with someone else.

Then we could get the costs back below $1,000.

As far as having a manual–that’s an unknown and I don’t have a clue, but I would think we could piece something together from books and other materials.

Of course I’m stacking the deck by presuming we could get 12 people together. These numbers all fall apart if it’s substantially less. I believe there are about 12 people going through the training right now at our studio, so it seemed like a reasonable number.

I’m just crunching these numbers for the fun of it. I don’t aspire to be a teacher. But if I did, and if I had a pile of 30 hundred dollar bills, I would be very careful how I spent them, and would search out any possible way to come up with a scheme to reduce the expense.

$3,000 is a lot for someone to spend on a course, especially since there’s no guarantee of a yoga teaching job. Afterall, where are all those teachers going to teach? Is yoga growing THAT fast that a studio in a small city could crank out 25 to 50 teachers a year who would each have a following of students of their own?

#14

@ Monk:

Point one - not all costs in a training are obvious, some are subtle. We don’t see them all we just see the ones that suit our belief.

Point two - not all $3,000 teacher trainings give you $4,000 of training. Some do. Others give you $10 of training.

Point three - you may or may not recover your investment in a teacher training. That is entirely up to the individual and has very little to do with the training - though again, some give you a few additional skills. If a teacher is taking a training only to make their money back then it’s best to take a computer training, not a yoga training.

Point four - the teachings are given away. Trainees are paying to keep the teacher alive during the process of transmitting them to the student. Classically, in exchange for the teachings, students would take care of all of the teacher’s needs - his cooking, cleaning, children, home, all of it. It was a form of commitment and respect. But this is not the context we live in so the teacher is compensated in another way.

[B]We do not take yoga teacher trainings in order to further our ledger. We take them in order to further our living and to assist people to do the same without damaging them. [/B]

#15

Point four - the teachings are given away. Trainees are paying to keep the teacher alive during the process of transmitting them to the student. Classically, in exchange for the teachings, students would take care of all of the teacher’s needs - his cooking, cleaning, children, home, all of it. It was a form of commitment and respect. But this is not the context we live in so the teacher is compensated in another way.

If it is 12 students at $3,000, and if the 200 hours is done in 40 hour weeks, that’s $36,000 in five weeks or over $7,000 per week.

I’d rather do it the old fashioned way and take care of all her needs for five weeks and give her a $10,000 bonus too. It would be way cheaper.

#16

I’d like to know what you do for a living please.

#17

Hey, hey… dear accountants:)

The original question was not about the cost.

The question is about credibility of organizations such as Yoga Alliance and their usefulness to the one who is teaching and learning yoga for decades.

My husband made a useful point. such as : you can fight the system and spend all you life for fighting, or you can use it to benefit…

I guess that getting your 200RYT after you have being teaching for decades is not beneficial, but goes alone with the system:)

#18

I’m thinking about getting certified but this rip-off thing is something what is holding me. I do not want to pay bunch of money just to hear again something I’ve already know or not interested in (like chanting).
This seemed to involve cost. But I believe the question of the “system” was answered, no? Yoga Alliance does not “set your curriculum”. The curriculum is set by the RYS (registered yoga school). Yoga Alliance develops and oversees a framework, called “standards”. And I believe the standards are reasonable - though perhaps set too low.

There’s no system here to fight. You can obviously BE a yoga teacher with no RYT at all. However, not only is it sensible to have standards (in an unlicensed field) but it is actually quite necessary. And while standards will not eliminate all the mumbo-jumbo, all the injuries, all the BS within our industry, it filters some of it and thus allows a person searching for a teacher to know “hey, this person has gone to some lengths to be a teacher and they respect their profession, value training and continuing education, and take the conveyance of yoga seriously”.

#19

Well said Gordon. Thank you!

#20

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;39656]This seemed to involve cost.

There’s no system here to fight. You can obviously BE a yoga teacher with no RYT at all. However, not only is it sensible to have standards (in an unlicensed field) but it is actually quite necessary. And while standards will not eliminate all the mumbo-jumbo, all the injuries, all the BS within our industry, it filters some of it and thus allows a person searching for a teacher to know “hey, this person has gone to some lengths to be a teacher and they respect their profession, value training and continuing education, and take the conveyance of yoga seriously”.[/QUOTE]

Gordon, I totally agree with you that standards are necessary. Also, 200hr is especially good and comprehensive course for students new to yoga.

I have 3 certification: 2 from Russia (and it was 3-year course, not five weekends as 200hr program is) and one from Thailand. In addition I’m was teaching in other places and almost 2 years in US now…

I don’t want to tell that I know everything, but what will I learn from 200hr curriculum:

? Yoga Philosophy
? Meditation
? Asana Technique
? Anatomy and Physiology
? Sport Specific Yoga
? Yoga for Special Conditions
? The Business and Ethics of Yoga

This curriculum sounds good for beginner.

Or do you guys think that one can become a good yoga teacher in 5 weekends???

Cost-wise: for $2000 I can attend the best workshops worldwide, rather then stick to local 200hr 5 weekends teacher training.