[QUOTE=Yogamark;40262][QUOTE=Yogamark;40261]
I recently completed my yoga training which included a 9 day retreat where we awoke to drums at 05:30 and retired with chants at 21:30.
But the hours after and before were not counted towards our 200 hours, nor should they. Yoga sleep really doesn’t cut it, and there are more fruitful ways to accumulate non-contact hours.
Namaste[/QUOTE]
Is this yoga training recognizable by Yoga Alliance?
This is a very controversial issue in the yoga community, I think. It’s a western money making concept to me…period…I bet Iyengar, Krishnamacharya, Pattabhi Jois, etc. are not “registered” with Yoga Alliance. I wonder who the makers are of this “Yoga Alliance” anyway? Why do they get to decide what qualifies someone? Who are these people? Yes, I have went on the site and read bios…for the most part, they’re other teachers. I am not a lesser or greater yoga teacher the day they cash my check for $150 (or so) than I was the day before.
[QUOTE=kdblaine;40371]This is a very controversial issue in the yoga community, I think. It’s a western money making concept to me…period…I bet Iyengar, Krishnamacharya, Pattabhi Jois, etc. are not “registered” with Yoga Alliance. I wonder who the makers are of this “Yoga Alliance” anyway? Why do they get to decide what qualifies someone? Who are these people? Yes, I have went on the site and read bios…for the most part, they’re other teachers. I am not a lesser or greater yoga teacher the day they cash my check for $150 (or so) than I was the day before.[/QUOTE]
Obviously if you can secure training by a venerable master yogi then by all means pursue this path with all speed, with my respect and restrained envy. For the rest of us, and the point of this thread, choosing a teacher may be a challenge. Yoga Alliance is an adhoc organization that provides a registry of teachers and Schools that follow their guidelines. There are many other like minded organizations, Yoga Alliance though is gaining more credibility of late and is world wide, well it is what it is, and it is really about providing the public a level of confidence in the quality and consistency of instruction. You do not have to be registered by Yoga Alliance, but at least with teacher training from a registered school you have some security, maybe a touch more credibility with your consumers, whereas with random un-registered yogis, well as you said. “Who are these people?”
[QUOTE=kdblaine;40371]This is a very controversial issue in the yoga community, I think. It’s a western money making concept to me…period…I bet Iyengar, Krishnamacharya, Pattabhi Jois, etc. are not “registered” with Yoga Alliance. I wonder who the makers are of this “Yoga Alliance” anyway? Why do they get to decide what qualifies someone? Who are these people? Yes, I have went on the site and read bios…for the most part, they’re other teachers. I am not a lesser or greater yoga teacher the day they cash my check for $150 (or so) than I was the day before.[/QUOTE]
With all due respect, the three masters you mention are in a lineage, committed their lives to the study and conveyance of yoga, practiced often for 8 hours per day, and did not label themselves yoga teachers after a 20 hour teacher training.
Nothing can be seen, assessed, or evaluated without a context.
[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;40426]With all due respect, the three masters you mention are in a lineage, committed their lives to the study and conveyance of yoga, practiced often for 8 hours per day, and did not label themselves yoga teachers after a 20 hour teacher training.
Nothing can be seen, assessed, or evaluated without a context.[/QUOTE]
But they are not registered with yoga alliance… :)))
[QUOTE=charliedharma;39358][QUOTE=CityMonk;39338]
If you think you can learn from books dvds just as well, would it not be as well to share this revelation with your students and stop teaching them . as by your definition they are being ripped off;-)
[/QUOTE]
I did not say that dvds and books is an optimal souse of learning. My point is that for $2000 (an average for 200hr) one can attend the best workshops and seminars, retreats. That can be more informative and tailored accordingly to partitioner level.
I would feel that I rip off my students if I teach yoga after only 200 hour training! That is incredible to take responsibility of teaching after [B]20 hours of anatomy[/B], [B]30 hours of yoga philosophy[/B], and [B]100 left for: asanas, pranayamas, kriyas, chanting, mantra, meditation,[/B] and “OTHER YOGA TECHNIQUES”:))
I do not meant to negate an importance of 200 rys standards, but facts are speaking for themselves…
Lotusgirl, I’m glad to hear that yoga studios hire based on experience…
[QUOTE=CityMonk;40354][QUOTE=Yogamark;40262]
Is this yoga training recognizable by Yoga Alliance?[/QUOTE]
Yes CityMonk the training is recognized by Yoga Alliance, and yes I will be registered with Yoga Alliance in November.
[QUOTE=Yogamark;40649][QUOTE=CityMonk;40354]
Yes CityMonk the training is recognized by Yoga Alliance, and yes I will be registered with Yoga Alliance in November.[/QUOTE]
This is sounds interesting. Can you please give me more info on this.
Thank you
[QUOTE=lotusgirl;39340]I have loved gardening for many years and read tons of books and went to many workshops. I had an opportunity to go through Master Gardener training and I did. I went into it thinking, “How much more could I learn?” Boy was I surprised about what I didn’t know. I was ultimately glad I took this next step. [/QUOTE]
I see what you are saying… but lets assume that you are doing gardening for the entire life every day , since you are 10yo. Your parents have taught you how to plant and harvest, how to trim the trees and get rig of bugs and desease; you know 80% of the world plants by name, you have planted a beautiful garden in South America and one in the north pool.
And here the fellow comes just brand new from the gardening master training.
Guess who has more to share?
[QUOTE=CityMonk;53081]I see what you are saying… but lets assume that you are doing gardening for the entire life every day , since you are 10yo. Your parents have taught you how to plant and harvest, how to trim the trees and get rig of bugs and desease; you know 80% of the world plants by name, you have planted a beautiful garden in South America and one in the north pool. And here the fellow comes just brand new from the gardening master training.
Guess who has more to share?[/QUOTE]
The intention of formal training is not to prove or suggest that those without it have nothing to share.
It’s possible that someone with a lot of training is a terrible teacher (or gardener), and it’s also possible that someone with no training is a wonderful teacher. I personally have learned so much from yoga teacher training courses and can’t imagine how I would have taught without them. At the same time, I saw people go through the same courses I did and appear to learn nothing. My point is, regardless of someone’s certificates or lackthereof, finding a teacher you jibe with is basically buying a pig in a poke until you actually take a class with that teacher.
[QUOTE=trinley;53116]The intention of formal training is not to prove or suggest that those without it have nothing to share.
It’s possible that someone with a lot of training is a terrible teacher (or gardener), and it’s also possible that someone with no training is a wonderful teacher. I personally have learned so much from yoga teacher training courses and can’t imagine how I would have taught without them. At the same time, I saw people go through the same courses I did and appear to learn nothing. My point is, regardless of someone’s certificates or lackthereof, finding a teacher you jibe with is basically buying a pig in a poke until you actually take a class with that teacher.[/QUOTE]
I think you just summed up everything I was thinking throughout this entire thread, thank you for your wisdom and clarity.
[QUOTE=CityMonk;40639][QUOTE=charliedharma;39358]
I did not say that dvds and books is an optimal souse of learning. My point is that for $2000 (an average for 200hr) one can attend the best workshops and seminars, retreats. That can be more informative and tailored accordingly to partitioner level.
I would feel that I rip off my students if I teach yoga after only 200 hour training! That is incredible to take responsibility of teaching after [B]20 hours of anatomy[/B], [B]30 hours of yoga philosophy[/B], and [B]100 left for: asanas, pranayamas, kriyas, chanting, mantra, meditation,[/B] and “OTHER YOGA TECHNIQUES”:))
I do not meant to negate an importance of 200 rys standards, but facts are speaking for themselves…
Lotusgirl, I’m glad to hear that yoga studios hire based on experience…[/QUOTE]
CityMonk,
This is true far too much emphasis is put on certification and being Yoga Alliance registered. Are there no Yogis in the world uncertified that are not experts and great teachers and practitioners? Of course there are many!
Though it is good to have a ‘standard’ of quality at least if someone is 200/500 hours you know they have good knowledge of Yoga - though does not necessitate they are great teachers.
Your example of going to seminars/workshops with people, someone may have done 200+ hours with many different leading teachers in that way but not be fully certified or registered with Yoga Alliance or another similar organisation. In martial arts for example, I know many that have very high standard and great teachers but have no certificates or black belts at all - they studied with seminars, classes, home study, etc. Not forgetting Bruce Lee! - no black belt or grade, no certification, yet nobody would doubt he was an undispituted Master.
I think with Yoga you either can do it or you can’t, if a 500hour registered Instructor (in perfect health) can not do any remotely advanced exercises, you would have to question their skill & knowledge.
Many places such as gyms employing Instructors will do a check on certification , in the U.S. some will look specifically for someone to be Yoga Alliance registered, though again it is not the be all and end all of Yoga having a nice certificate - variations in teacher training courses and standard is huge!, some you basically turn up and get your certificate, others will really test you and not certify you unless you are good enough.
[QUOTE=CityMonk;53081]I see what you are saying… but lets assume that you are doing gardening for the entire life every day , since you are 10yo. Your parents have taught you how to plant and harvest, how to trim the trees and get rig of bugs and desease; you know 80% of the world plants by name, you have planted a beautiful garden in South America and one in the north pool. And here the fellow comes just brand new from the gardening master training.
Guess who has more to share?[/QUOTE]
Rabbit or Hare what are the odds?
As long as the garden master training was from a reputable organization than
I would hire the garden master trainer more times out of ten.
A lifetime of doing something wrong does not make it right!
Just because their dear old Da taught them to trim trees at the wrong time in the wrong season because it or dumb luck worked good enough for him? I’ve seen this so many times in so many fields.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.City Monk,
“I’m thinking about getting certified but this rip-off thing is something what is holding me. I do not want to pay bunch of money just to hear again something I’ve already know or not interested in (like chanting)”
Initially, the yogic sciences have never had any kind of certification, it is not an academic study. It has less to do with gathering knowledge, and more to do with coming to know yourself, through and through, and the transformation that arises out of coming to know oneself. The closest thing to any kind of “ceritfication” has been to be initiated into a tradition, which is itself not really a necessity for awakening. Most of the yogic sciences for centuries were just transmitted orally from master to disciple, there has never been a need to drag something as superficial as certification into the matter. Do you think that Patanjali has any certification, or Gautama Buddha ? A master is always uncertified, because a master does not mean a master over a particular subject, or a field of study. It simply means one who has come to know oneself, who has awakened to his original nature and is in living communion with one’s true self. A disciple does not require any certification either, because a disciple just means one who is initiating a discipline.
Since yoga had become imported from the East to the West, it has just become a commodity, a product in the marketplace which is just intended to fulfill the demand and supply of the people in the marketplace. Because the conditioning of the Western mind has been revolving around the ways of the body, now everything in yoga has become just about the body. All those more physical techniques which were intended just as preparation for meditation - have now all been reduced to just a series of physical exercises, or as a way to reduce stress. What was a gateway to the divine has now become just part of the ego-nourishing industry which has spread almost all over the Earth. In this way, what has happened has been a great disservice to the science, it has lost it’s original spirit for the sake of man’s greed.
Yoga, if one is going to consider it according to the very meaning of the word, Union, does not require certification of any kind. But certainly it requires qualification. And the qualification is, not through degrees, but through coming to a direct experience of your original nature and liberation from the causes of suffering. Only one who has ignited his own flame can become capable of triggering it’s discovery in another, only a Buddha is capable of assisting another towards his Buddhahood.
But if what one is calling yoga is the kind of yoga that exists in the market, then it does not require much. Just a few months of a few years of training to receive a certificate is enough - and you can start teaching yoga.
Yes it would be nice if students education themselves in finding an appropriate instructor. Valid recommendations from those who have firsthand experienced rather than base it on a ?certification? seems to make sense. But as a wise man once said; ?What another may have said on the matter is relevant only as far as one’s own experience is concerned, they are just a finger pointing to the moon?. I learned early on, when coming across a long line I should check it out, see who?s filling up classes etc. The unfamiliar will most likely buy into the ?certification? and if you livelihood depends on it then you must consider.
[QUOTE=thomas;39412]Just curious if those who have been through teacher training have felt it was worth the time and money regarding what you actually learned, and not regarding whatever credentials you received.
I went to one workshop at our studio that was part of teacher training, but students were allowed to come too. It was an all day affair, and I felt the 8 hours could easily have been condensed into 2 hours with better preparation.
It makes me wonder if that’s the case with the 200 hour course they sell for $3,000. Are those 200 hours jam packed with good things or is there much redundancy, teaching what the student already knows, and wasted time?
I did not go to the all-day seminar for ethics training which was also part of the teacher course. I had a hard time understanding why anyone would need to pay $150.00 to learn ethics that could easily be gleaned from a book, and that are a natural part of any person of goodwill’s life, or any person who has had any religious training or experience. I happened to talk to one of the attendee’s of the class and she said it was pretty much a rehash of a three hour class she previously attended from the same teacher, and that it was very repetitious, drawn out, and gruelling.
So if this is the case, it seems ironic to me that someone could charge $150.00 to teach about asteya, especially if some students already paid for the same information in other classes, and if the time could have been better used and not wasted.
This same teacher complained in an article in a yoga magazine that too many want to be teachers too soon, and yet he is part of the organization at my studio that is getting $3,000 per student for teacher training with a minimum requirement of having practiced two years, or less with the approval of a teacher.
I understand people need to be paid for what they do, and studios need to cover their overhead, but I also have a cynical side that makes me question whether something it truly legitimate and necessary or whether it is a racket.[/QUOTE]
I am doing yoga teacher training right now. I have mixed feelings about it. First off I myself have been practicing for about 10 years but not regularly for the first 5 and pretty consistent for the past 5 and thought I wasn’t qualified enough to teach although I have already been teaching beginners at the massage school I went to.
A few of the teachers in training have been practicing for less then a year in some cases. Almost none of them practice yoga. (Yoga is breath and mind control meditation) just asana or poses for those unfamiliar with what yoga actually is. I am trying not to be judgemental as that is not a good quality to poses but although it has given me a little boost in confidence and helped me get comfortable in front teaching. Not much is new or groundbreaking to me in the teacher training and feel that I could be teaching the trainers myself. But I do need the credentials to help me build a practice of eager students ready to learn and practice yoga as well as asana
for new practicers of “yoga” it will be helpful but if you are a true yogi its just money paid to get your R.Y.T STAMP next to your name.
it is allot of money making for the studios and I do not really feel all that great about it but people need money to survive. If I was independently wealthy and had no need for money I would teach for free. But lets face reality I love yoga and would like to make money doing something I love because I do need money at this stage in my life
Handsofeye Are you not then part of the problem , in that you are paying for a teacher training programme that you dont think is yoga and the teachers on the course are not doing yoga , did you not research and practise with these people before deciding to take a course with these people ? It amazes me that folk pay out to people that they have no prior knowledge of . I dont get this RYT stamp thing why are people so beholden to it , or so in awe of it that they feel they have to pay large amounts of cash to go on dodgy teacher trainings.
I think you do need to look at the course in a discerning way , because the standards of what passes for yoga as you allude to are quite frankly Pathetic .
http://spiritube.com/rod-stryker/18-million-yogis-video_3533fe7bf.html
Handsofeye I?m glad you shared your thoughts, perhaps some others will educate and research deeper before spending hard earned money and I?m not discrediting YA here cause I have not fully researched it myself however there has been enough feedback on this forum and else ware to warrant a thorough investigation before paying anyone a dime for certification. This goes for anything in life, if one allows others to easily take advantage then they also become part of the problem, negative karma (if that?s possible) is generated.
Yoga allows us to work through all aspects of our life - it is the greatest gift that you can offer anyone, it is not anything like being a electrician, plumber or educator where we are providing a service to get results - the argument for corporate regulation has already been refuted.
Corporate yoga is phoney yoga.
I propose a community led moratorium on all the yoga teacher certification schemes currently on offer.
With all due respect, I do not accept any Yoga teachers who are not at least swamis. That is living examples of people who have mastered their senses and mind using Yoga. I have attended classes of so-called Yoga teachers and I have not been impressed. It is has been a case of the blind leading the blind. I am going to get my Yoga training from the authentic tradition.