Uncertified Yoga Teacher

Yoga Teacher Training
#41

City Monk,

“I’m thinking about getting certified but this rip-off thing is something what is holding me. I do not want to pay bunch of money just to hear again something I’ve already know or not interested in (like chanting)”

Initially, the yogic sciences have never had any kind of certification, it is not an academic study. It has less to do with gathering knowledge, and more to do with coming to know yourself, through and through, and the transformation that arises out of coming to know oneself. The closest thing to any kind of “ceritfication” has been to be initiated into a tradition, which is itself not really a necessity for awakening. Most of the yogic sciences for centuries were just transmitted orally from master to disciple, there has never been a need to drag something as superficial as certification into the matter. Do you think that Patanjali has any certification, or Gautama Buddha ? A master is always uncertified, because a master does not mean a master over a particular subject, or a field of study. It simply means one who has come to know oneself, who has awakened to his original nature and is in living communion with one’s true self. A disciple does not require any certification either, because a disciple just means one who is initiating a discipline.

Since yoga had become imported from the East to the West, it has just become a commodity, a product in the marketplace which is just intended to fulfill the demand and supply of the people in the marketplace. Because the conditioning of the Western mind has been revolving around the ways of the body, now everything in yoga has become just about the body. All those more physical techniques which were intended just as preparation for meditation - have now all been reduced to just a series of physical exercises, or as a way to reduce stress. What was a gateway to the divine has now become just part of the ego-nourishing industry which has spread almost all over the Earth. In this way, what has happened has been a great disservice to the science, it has lost it’s original spirit for the sake of man’s greed.

Yoga, if one is going to consider it according to the very meaning of the word, Union, does not require certification of any kind. But certainly it requires qualification. And the qualification is, not through degrees, but through coming to a direct experience of your original nature and liberation from the causes of suffering. Only one who has ignited his own flame can become capable of triggering it’s discovery in another, only a Buddha is capable of assisting another towards his Buddhahood.

But if what one is calling yoga is the kind of yoga that exists in the market, then it does not require much. Just a few months of a few years of training to receive a certificate is enough - and you can start teaching yoga.

#42

Yes it would be nice if students education themselves in finding an appropriate instructor. Valid recommendations from those who have firsthand experienced rather than base it on a ?certification? seems to make sense. But as a wise man once said; ?What another may have said on the matter is relevant only as far as one’s own experience is concerned, they are just a finger pointing to the moon?. I learned early on, when coming across a long line I should check it out, see who?s filling up classes etc. The unfamiliar will most likely buy into the ?certification? and if you livelihood depends on it then you must consider.

#43

[QUOTE=thomas;39412]Just curious if those who have been through teacher training have felt it was worth the time and money regarding what you actually learned, and not regarding whatever credentials you received.

I went to one workshop at our studio that was part of teacher training, but students were allowed to come too. It was an all day affair, and I felt the 8 hours could easily have been condensed into 2 hours with better preparation.

It makes me wonder if that’s the case with the 200 hour course they sell for $3,000. Are those 200 hours jam packed with good things or is there much redundancy, teaching what the student already knows, and wasted time?

I did not go to the all-day seminar for ethics training which was also part of the teacher course. I had a hard time understanding why anyone would need to pay $150.00 to learn ethics that could easily be gleaned from a book, and that are a natural part of any person of goodwill’s life, or any person who has had any religious training or experience. I happened to talk to one of the attendee’s of the class and she said it was pretty much a rehash of a three hour class she previously attended from the same teacher, and that it was very repetitious, drawn out, and gruelling.

So if this is the case, it seems ironic to me that someone could charge $150.00 to teach about asteya, especially if some students already paid for the same information in other classes, and if the time could have been better used and not wasted.

This same teacher complained in an article in a yoga magazine that too many want to be teachers too soon, and yet he is part of the organization at my studio that is getting $3,000 per student for teacher training with a minimum requirement of having practiced two years, or less with the approval of a teacher.

I understand people need to be paid for what they do, and studios need to cover their overhead, but I also have a cynical side that makes me question whether something it truly legitimate and necessary or whether it is a racket.[/QUOTE]

I am doing yoga teacher training right now. I have mixed feelings about it. First off I myself have been practicing for about 10 years but not regularly for the first 5 and pretty consistent for the past 5 and thought I wasn’t qualified enough to teach although I have already been teaching beginners at the massage school I went to.

A few of the teachers in training have been practicing for less then a year in some cases. Almost none of them practice yoga. (Yoga is breath and mind control meditation) just asana or poses for those unfamiliar with what yoga actually is. I am trying not to be judgemental as that is not a good quality to poses but although it has given me a little boost in confidence and helped me get comfortable in front teaching. Not much is new or groundbreaking to me in the teacher training and feel that I could be teaching the trainers myself. But I do need the credentials to help me build a practice of eager students ready to learn and practice yoga as well as asana

for new practicers of “yoga” it will be helpful but if you are a true yogi its just money paid to get your R.Y.T STAMP next to your name.

it is allot of money making for the studios and I do not really feel all that great about it but people need money to survive. If I was independently wealthy and had no need for money I would teach for free. But lets face reality I love yoga and would like to make money doing something I love because I do need money at this stage in my life

#44

Handsofeye Are you not then part of the problem , in that you are paying for a teacher training programme that you dont think is yoga and the teachers on the course are not doing yoga , did you not research and practise with these people before deciding to take a course with these people ? It amazes me that folk pay out to people that they have no prior knowledge of . I dont get this RYT stamp thing why are people so beholden to it , or so in awe of it that they feel they have to pay large amounts of cash to go on dodgy teacher trainings.
I think you do need to look at the course in a discerning way , because the standards of what passes for yoga as you allude to are quite frankly Pathetic .

http://spiritube.com/rod-stryker/18-million-yogis-video_3533fe7bf.html

#45

Handsofeye I?m glad you shared your thoughts, perhaps some others will educate and research deeper before spending hard earned money and I?m not discrediting YA here cause I have not fully researched it myself however there has been enough feedback on this forum and else ware to warrant a thorough investigation before paying anyone a dime for certification. This goes for anything in life, if one allows others to easily take advantage then they also become part of the problem, negative karma (if that?s possible) is generated.

#46

Yoga allows us to work through all aspects of our life - it is the greatest gift that you can offer anyone, it is not anything like being a electrician, plumber or educator where we are providing a service to get results - the argument for corporate regulation has already been refuted.

Corporate yoga is phoney yoga.

I propose a community led moratorium on all the yoga teacher certification schemes currently on offer.

The Problems of Westernized Yoga

#47

With all due respect, I do not accept any Yoga teachers who are not at least swamis. That is living examples of people who have mastered their senses and mind using Yoga. I have attended classes of so-called Yoga teachers and I have not been impressed. It is has been a case of the blind leading the blind. I am going to get my Yoga training from the authentic tradition.

#48

“I do not accept any Yoga teachers who are not at least swamis”

Most Swamis are not all too different than most teachers in the West. Although certainly they are more knowledgeable, and have even explored with these methods with some result - but their knowledge has functioning like a veil over their understanding, they are far too entangled in their own tradition. If you ask them any question, they can give you an answer - but all of their answers are just repetitions of the borrowed knowledge that has entered into one’s mind, not different than any priest. These are two extremes. The “teachers” in the West do not have enough knowledge, the swamis in the East have far too much knowledge, and in both cases it comes to the same - whether one has come to a transformation or whether one is still living out of unawareness.

The fact is that as long as one continues clinging to any belief system, tradition, or philosophy - then one is going to be prejudiced, and a prejudiced mind is incapable of discovering Truth.

“I am going to get my Yoga training from the authentic tradition.”

There is no other teaching that can be transferred except through life itself. And life is not a tradition.

#49

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56745]With all due respect, I do not accept any Yoga teachers who are not at least swamis. That is living examples of people who have mastered their senses and mind using Yoga. I have attended classes of so-called Yoga teachers and I have not been impressed. It is has been a case of the blind leading the blind. I am going to get my Yoga training from the authentic tradition.[/QUOTE]

So who is your swami Of choice ? My main teacher From my limited perspective has mastered his senses , but he dont call himself no swami.

#50

Amir, we know that you do not consider anything valid, that does not come from your own direct experience or your mouth :wink: You regard all teachers and masters that are not you to be lesser than you or at the very least suspect, because you claim you are enlightened and know it all - even stuff you have no education on - not only that you claim to be in your post-enlightemment training. You often speak of how inferior knowledge is, and yet you spend most of your time on the Yoga forum giving people unsolicited advice and knowledge - but this is ok, because it is coming from you :wink: And you have reached enlightenment, and are now in your post-enlightenment training - so how you can ever be wrong about anything? Verily you are the source of all knowledge for you know the entire nature of being. It does not matter that you did all this all by yourself, never got validated by anybody else, and decided all by yourself you were now enlightened - because it is you - the master of all masters :wink:

Please forgive me oh enlightened one, but I am going to take a pause from talking about you, as great as you are. Let us talk about the lesser ones who have been doing sadhana longer than you, the swamis.

To become a swami in the authentic Yoga tradition in India is no cake walk. First you need to be formally initiated as part of a tradition. You will often be given a new yogic name. Each tradition has a sadhana. Then you need do sadhana for at least a decade as part of their tradition. If you are have proven your worth to the tradition and to the established swamis you will be given the title of swami. To meet the title of swami you must show you have control over your senses and mind and an understanding of philosophy. This shows whether you are ready as a teacher or not. It is a very long education, but rest assured, if you have somebody who has earned the title of swami, you know you are in good hands.

I am sorry Amir what was your title again? Oh yes, I forgot, you don’t have one. That is ok, you don’t need it. After all you got your learning from pure inner being itself and have surpassed those lesser swamis :wink:

#51

[QUOTE=charliedharma;56752]So who is your swami Of choice ? My main teacher From my limited perspective has mastered his senses , but he dont call himself no swami.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know who your teacher is so I can’t comment.

My favourite swamis are Swami Dayananda Saraswati, Swami Vivekananda, Swami Yogananda Paramhansa, Swami Chinmayananda, Swami Dayananda and Swami Krishnananda.

I consider them my role models and heroes. Although they have all passed away, with the exception of Swami Dayananda, I would have been fortunate to have been initiated by them.

#52

@charliedharma @AmirMourad Please bear no ill will towards Surya Deva - he has shown to be less than reliable in his assertion made elsewhere - in particular in the “Is Yoga Hinduism?” topic.

He has shown to be mostly incapable of non-violent communication and has shown obvious characteristics of being a passive-aggressive personality type.

My recommendation is to add Surya Deva to your ignore list (you can do this from your account menu) so his posts will not distract those of us that can moderate our discussions and take onboard more than one perspective at a time.

To his credit, Surya Deva has managed to reduce the most pluralistic and multi-faceted religion (Hinduism) into a single worldview of the Indian people - which is not only an epic fail but also a gross misrepresentation of the religion he has appointed himself to represent here, his racial origin and yoga.

God bless everyone - and even you SD - for no man is worthy of entire castigation - even if has shown himself to act like a fool.

#53

SD:

rest assured, if you have somebody who has earned the title of swami, you know you are in good hands.

Swami in sleaze controversy

Now what was that SD?

Your bold assertions have a knack of coming undone rather quickly don’t you think?

Well - at least you are consistent in your failures.

DO keep up the good work

#54

Yogi Mat, your post is inappropriate, inflaming and offensive. This kind of behaviour is not allowed on the main Yoga forums. I will report further violations to the staff.

Charliedharma and pretty much everybody on this forum knows me longer than you do, they have already formed their opinions on me. They don’t need a newbie who only joined a few days ago to tell them what to think :wink: You really do think the world revolves around don’t you :wink:

Your every next few words in whatever you have written since you joined a few days has been an insult. You have insulted me, Neitzsche and Dwai. And now you have helped yourself to another thread to personally condemn me and tell people to put me on an ignore list as if you are some authority on this forum. And here you are calling me aggressive and a violent communicator? :wink: It is clear you project a lot.

#55

Sorry people - I am not sure how to take SD to one side for a quiet word - can anyone suggest a better thread for this - how about “Lets have it out 1 to 1 outside”?

lol

@SD FYI: I dealt with projection about 10 years ago - save your pop psychology for someone that is need of it.

I have very right to offer my opinion as to your behaviour to other members - unlike you - I am confident that they will have already made up their own mind about you but they may not realise that it is possible to add persistent nuisances to an ignore list so I am giving this information out as a matter of etiquette and to promote the smooth operation of this website.

God Bless

#56

I dealt with projection about 10 years ago

I am not surprised, you have a highly troubled mind. You seem to think every thread revolves around you, and yet you just got here a few days ago; you struggle in composing any post that does not contains any insult; you struggle with basic language; you hate facts.

Something tells me you need to work a bit more on projection :wink:

This will be my last post to you in this thread. Do you realise you are derailing the thread?

#57

A better thread might be alter egos on the Yoga Forum, where people can create multiply user names and discuss topics amongst themselves?.I actually find this forum quite entertaining, fascinating and once in a while informative.

#58

Re: Bad Swamis and flawed swamis

There are bad politicians, bad scientists, bad actors, bad fathers, bad mothers, bad sons, bad daughters, bad priests, bad Yoga forum members :wink:

Just because you can point out a few examples of bad or flawed swamis, it does not mean all swamis are bad or flawed.

#59

@Ray I agree - that would be fun - maybe we can all club together and each sponsor SD with a screen name so that he can post to himself - I am sure he would love that as he would never be ignored or contested in his overly-paternalistic advice and shallow claims - he has since let it be known that he has a first class honours degree in philosophy - although I have yet to see it - and I certainly won’t be holding my breath on that one.

@SD: you said

rest assured, if you have somebody who has earned the title of swami, you know you are in good hands.

So it seems like you are asking us to rest assured if someone has earned the title Swami - I do not know how you wriggle out of that one - thanks for trying though - FAIL.

I put my trust in how a person behaves towards me - this is somethig you have yet to learn it seems - you cannot persuade people with violent communications and failing to takeinto account their experiences and perspectives.

This is basic human decency.

I am intersted in whether a teacher acts non-violently for example - not because they are called “Swami”.

I think most sane people do the same thing - so why not you ?

Oh - I forgot - you are SPECIAL (but perhaps not in the way you would like to be).

God Bless you SD - but please try harder to keep up.

#60

Surya,

“To meet the title of swami you must show you have control over your senses and mind and an understanding of philosophy. This shows whether you are ready as a teacher or not”

If you are fond of this idea that all that is needed to come to one’s liberation or to be capable of teaching others is to control the mind and gather knowledge, then that is fine. But that is not my own understanding. The mind is not to be controlled, but it is to be liberated.

"You regard all teachers and masters that are not you to be lesser than you "

No, only those who have come to their awakening. I do not consider those that you have mentioned, such as Parahamsa Yogananda, or Swami Vivekananda as awakened. And I have countless reasons which I can mention as to why it is the case. But if one had spoken of people like Patanjali, Gorakshanath, Matsyendranath, Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, Gautama Buddha, Mahavira, Bodhidharma, Huang Po, Rinzai, Matsu, Hakuin, Ramakrishna, Ramana Maharishi, or Jiddu Krishnamurti, then it would have been an entirely different matter. But who is awakened and who is not is irrelevant - what is relevant is whether you yourself have come to your own awakening.