Uncertified Yoga Teacher

Yoga Teacher Training
#61

But if one had spoken of people like Patanjali, Gorakshanath, Matsyendranath, Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, Gautama Buddha, Mahavira, Bodhidharma, Huang Po, Rinzai, Matsu, Hakuin, Ramakrishna, Ramana Maharishi, or Jiddu Krishnamurti, then it would have been an entirely different matter.

Actually, I mentioned Ramakrishna and Patanjali in previous posts, and you accused them of being liars :wink:

You do not accept the biggest and most respected masters of modern times Swami Vivekananda and swami Yogananda as awakened :wink: Yes, Amir, we have established everybody that is not you is a lesser person. Too bad that nobody shares your own inflated views about yourself.

#62

Surya,

" Too bad that nobody shares your own inflated views about yourself."

I do not have any views of myself.

“You do not accept the biggest and most respected masters of modern times Swami Vivekananda”

To be “respected” has nothing whatsoever to do with being a master, although a master may be respected. It is not a matter of popularity, or just being impressed by anybody who appeals to your ego. If that is the case - then even Moses is enlightened because he is respected as a great master by many Jews. Even people like Alexander the Great are awakened because he has been respected by so many people, so much that he has even been given the title “The Great”.

No, I cannot accept Swami Vivekananda as awakened. He says that to be celibate is a superior way of living. Not only a superior way of living, but to be celibate is not different than being a god, and that anybody who enjoys sex is basically evil. Even to look at the opposite sex with desire is to fall into evil passions. And it is impossible for anybody who is awakened to say such a thing. Sexual desire is not something that is to be repressed, but it is to be understood. The more it is repressed is not the more it disappears, it simply shifts down into the unconscious and gathers force there. Although outwardly one may appear to be liberated, one’s liberation is very fragile. If you just take the condition of celibacy away, and it immediately comes crashing down. That is natural - because when one makes an effort to control sex, one has not gained any experience with life directly, one has been putting all kinds of safety gaurds which has kept one inexperienced. The so called “peace” of mind that is created from this is just artificial - it is a great deception. I can understand if one is using celibacy just temporarily, as a way to gather energy and focus. But as a permanent way of life - it is simply against nature. If one is truly interested in coming to more awareness, then nothing at all is to be rejected - everything is to be seen, understood, and integrated.

This is not liberation, this is control. And Swami Vevekananda for his whole life was living under the shadow of a tradition which has declared that the mind and the senses are to be controlled. He has great knowledge of tradition - but seeing the kind of things that he has said - he does not have much insight which is in tune with reality, he became far too programmed by his borrowed knowledge. The same has happened with many yogis, they were unable to see beyond the veil of their own tradition. Those who continue following Buddhism can only see things through those lenses, those who are followers of the Jain approach can only see things according to the Jain philosophy, those who are followers of Vedanta can only see things through the lenses of Vedanta, those who are Charvaka’s can only see things through the lenses of materialism - and like this you will find so many yogis who are slaves to their own tradition. Those who happen to stand alone out of their own direct experience and awareness, like Matsyendranath or Gorakshanath, are very few and far between.

“Yes, Amir, we”

Set aside plural, step inside singular.

#63

So your point that if you are considered a master or a great that does mean you are. Your point has been duly noted. However, somebody who you consider a master, Ramakrishna, considered Vivekananda to be the incarnation of a great yogi and a great soul, and he himself bestowed the title of swami Vivekananda on him. How do you deal with this contradiction in you considering Ramakrishna a master, but not considering his disciple who he himself considered a master and a great soul, a master?

Celibacy has been called one of the greatests methods in the Upanishads of attaining spiritual energy. If you remain celibate all your life, and never spill your vital fluid anytime, that energy is then used and transmuted into higher energy and builds your immunity(ojas) and stregnthens you. I have validated this through my own personal experience when I observed celibacy. Ideally, you should remain celibate all your life, unfortunately us lesser humans, which sounds like it includes you as well, suffer from lust so we cannon maintain it.

Amir, I have a question for you. How do you know you are enligthened?

#64

#65

“Ideally, you should remain celibate all your life”

Then you are doing something which is unnatural. Nature has not intended for man to be celibate. This is a simple fact.

“Celibacy has been called one of the greatests methods in the Upanishads of attaining spiritual energy.”

It is just a skillful means and nothing more.

“If you remain celibate all your life, and never spill your vital fluid anytime, that energy is then used and transmuted into higher energy and builds your immunity(ojas) and stregnthens you.”

That is fine. But awakening has little to do with whether you ejaculate or not.

“unfortunately us lesser humans, which sounds like it includes you as well, suffer from lust so we cannon maintain it”

Because one does not suffer from lust, then whether one engages in sex or does not engage in sex, it makes no difference. You do not understand that liberation is just that -absolute freedom. The water cannot wet it and the fire cannot burn it. Do nothing and it is there. Do something, and it is there. Take a step forward, and it is revealed. Take a step behind and it is revealed. Travel to the East, and it is inescapable. Travel to the West, and it is inescapable.

#66

“Amir, I have a question for you. How do you know you are enligthened?”

Seven pebbles in a pond.

#67

If you remain celibate all your life, and never spill your vital fluid anytime, that energy is then used and transmuted into higher energy and builds your immunity(ojas) and stregnthens you."

That is fine. But awakening has little to do with whether you ejaculate or not.

I think I agree with you, these words enlightenment/awakening are indeed meaningless. How is one person who has practiced celibacy to cultivate their spiritual energy and a person who practices yoga to do the same, different? Different paths to the same goal. I am going to assume celibacy soon when I start my sadhana - after all I need my spiritual energy for my sadhana.

#68

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;56936]“Amir, I have a question for you. How do you know you are enligthened?”

Seven pebbles in a pond.[/QUOTE]

You have not answered my question, but given me somebody elses answer. I will answer you again: How do you know you are enlightened? I suspect your usage of the word is meaningless. You have done a bit of sadhana, ended it prematurely, and declared you have reached the goal.

To say you have reached the goal is ending your spiritual development. Even Seeker claims to have already reached self-realization :wink:

#69

“but given me somebody elses answer”

That is my response, and it is not an answer.

“I will answer you again: How do you know you are enlightened?”

The wheel turns, mountains crumble.

“and declared you have reached the goal.”

I have never declared that I have reached the goal, because enlightenment is not an end, nor is it a means to an end. Surrendering into the birthless, there is not even a single hook to grasp onto. When one can see with penetrating clarity into things as they are, there is no goal to attain to, existence itself is without a target in sight. Vast and immeasurable, there is nowhere to fix your eyes upon. Although - to set a goal in ones mind may be useful for the meantime.

#70

“I am going to assume celibacy soon when I start my sadhana - after all I need my spiritual energy for my sadhana.”

: )

#71

The wheel turns, mountains crumble.

I eat my bowl of cornflakes

Basically, what your rather vague replies are saying is that you do ordinary things and can note ordinary things, like six pebbles in a pond, a turning wheel and a moutain. So can a 5 year old. How does that make you enlightened? You can do things that 99.9% of us can do.
In the other thread you told me you get thousands of thoughts a day and even revealed an attachments to thoughts. How are you different to us mere mortals? Nothing appears to be differenct? Like us mere mortals you also indulge in pointless debates on the internet.

From what I can gather I think you just say you are enlightened, because you say you are :wink: Fine, you can believe that if you want. But then to go around telling everybody else they are asleep and unconscious is not on dear. You’re just as asleep and unconcious and ordinary as we all are. You’re not any better. To claim you are just makes you look like a fool.

#72

“what your rather vague replies are saying is that you do ordinary things and can note ordinary things”

No, it has nothing to do with ordinary things either. Not raising a finger for or against, when there is not even a trace of entanglement in ones intellect - what will you call this ?

“So can a 5 year old.”

It is not really the case. A five year old, although living in a field which is far more natural and spotnaneous than the average person, is far too entangled in his conditioning to be capable of being mindful in the moment. Perhaps there are rare glimpses, but those glimpses are just accidental. Otherwise, he is ignorant of himself. That is why the expansion of consciousness has nothing to do with something which many fanatics have been declaring, of becoming a child again. Certainly you can be born again, a revelation can happen which shatters the past to its foundation- but it has nothing to do with being a child, which is just a state of stagnation.

“How does that make you enlightened? You can do things that 99.9% of us can do”

Do not take it for granted that most people can do things which appear to be outwardly very ordinary. When walking, you are not really walking. When sitting, you are not really sitting. When eating, you are not really eating. If one just observes ones mind, not for a moment or two, but as an ongoing stream of meditation - then one will witness just how many times in twenty four hours ones mind is entangled in imagination. Though that cannot be done through just concentration or controlling the mind, because concentration means to focus ones mind upon a single object. And so far, I have not heard you speak of anything else except control and concentration.

Though most people move their legs - they do not walk. Though light is entering into the eyes, they do not see. Rare, as rare as finding a pearl in the desert, is one who sees what one sees and hears what one hears.

“In the other thread you told me you get thousands of thoughts a day and even revealed an attachments to thoughts.”

In the other thread the intention was simply to bring it to your awareness that thoughts or no-thoughts, a silent mind is a silent mind. If just a single ripple of thought can disturb your silence, it is not the true silence. It is not that thoughts or impressions are arising, that ones silence is being disturbed, it is just that the moment the mind becomes identified with them - then ones clarity becomes clouded, ones vision becomes distorted. If one had known anything of meditation - then one would already know this. Since you are fond of Patanjali, Patanjali has said that this is one of the greatest psychological hindrances - to have either attraction towards or aversion from. If you consider Patanjali an authority, you should see into what he means. What he is indicating is that the moment the mind becomes prejudiced towards whatever arises in ones field of experience including thought, ones perception becomes disillusioned.

“How are you different to us mere mortals?”

I know that it has been fashionable to try and be humble through calling oneself a mere mortal - but it just shows how identified one is with either ones mind or body.

#73

being mindful in the moment.

So basically the reason you call yourself enlightened and awakened is because you practice mindfullness? When you wash the dishes, you have your awareness on washing the dishes. When you eat, you have your awareness on eating.

That’s nice that you can wash the dishes and eat with mindfullness, but if this was alone was enough to be become enlightened, then why would Patanjali recommend niyamas,. asanas, pranayama, pratyahara, dharana, dhyana and samadhi, he would have just left it at yama and be done with it. Saved himself a lot of time. Even Buddha did not just recommend right action, right speech etc, his most important part was meditation and samadhi.

It is very nice to know you wash the dishes like a pro, but sorry my friend, that does not make you enlightened. Thanks to Patanjali, Buddha and modern day consciousness researchers we know exactly what stages one goes through to get to “enlightenment” the various samadhis on the way. The very high stages where samyama becomes operational.
It sounds like you have not passed any stages - except perhaps washing the dishes :wink:

#74

[I]"You regard all teachers and masters that are not you to be lesser than you "

No, only those who have come to their awakening. [B]I do not consider those that you have mentioned, such as Parahamsa Yogananda, or Swami Vivekananda as awakened. [/B]And I have countless reasons which I can mention as to why it is the case. But if one had spoken of people like Patanjali, Gorakshanath, Matsyendranath, Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, Gautama Buddha, Mahavira, Bodhidharma, Huang Po, Rinzai, Matsu, Hakuin, Ramakrishna, Ramana Maharishi, or Jiddu Krishnamurti, then it would have been an entirely different matter. But who is awakened and who is not is irrelevant - what is relevant is whether you yourself have come to your own awakening.[/QUOTE][/I]

Really? There is no truth only your perception of truth as they say, and you of course are entitled to your opinions. However one only has to look at who holds Yogananda in high regard very esteemed scholars and notable Yogis, not to mention the Govt. of India to realise you are talking absolute nonsense! Also a book like ‘Autobiography of a Yogi’ is considered a classic by so many.

You say Yogananda was not ‘awakened’ and Jiddu Krishnamurti was? Krishnamurti’s greatest strength was his uncanny ability to talk around a point all night without ever getting to it or hitting it! Sure he could give you some seemingly deep pretentious waffle on anything but he lacked the ability to be direct and to realise ‘the shortest distance between two points is a straight line’. Krisnamurti’s written work is huge, you can read through it all you may be Intellectually stirred, you may find it interesting but there is little real substance in it i.e. telling you how to lead a better life and improve not only the quality of your life but also of those around you. Krishnamurti’s complete works the main essential teachings drawn from them could be summarised easily in a page or less saving anyone the time of going through a multitude of pretentious waffle.

#75

[QUOTE=CityMonk;40639][QUOTE=charliedharma;39358]

  1. I did not say that dvds and books is an optimal souse of learning. My point is that for $2000 (an average for 200hr) one can attend the best workshops and seminars, retreats. That can be more informative and tailored accordingly to partitioner level.

  2. I would feel that I rip off my students if I teach yoga after only 200 hour training! That is incredible to take responsibility of teaching after [B]20 hours of anatomy[/B], [B]30 hours of yoga philosophy[/B], and [B]100 left for: asanas, pranayamas, kriyas, chanting, mantra, meditation,[/B] and “OTHER YOGA TECHNIQUES”:))

I do not meant to negate an importance of 200 rys standards, but facts are speaking for themselves…

Lotusgirl, I’m glad to hear that yoga studios hire based on experience…[/QUOTE]

I have seen “yoga teachers” come to take lessons from my guru, an unassuming, low profile and humble indian yogi of the tamil siddha tradition. While these inividuals generally tend to have good physical abilities and can do their asanas well, they are huffing and puffing when guruji puts them through a basic exercise he calls meru danda shuddhi. They are impatient and want the “secret sauce” without having spent the time and effort that makes them worthy of learning it (adhikara).

Imho, in order to teach, one first needs to have a good teacher, and then at least a few years of sadhana. They also need to “get” what yoga is really about. Like my guru says, it is not about being able to bend into pretzels but about ceasing the modifications of the mind.

#76

My opinion is the broadly the same as Dwai, about 20 years is about the minimum you need to look at becoming a well-rounded teacher. The amount of contact time you need with a living Guru though is questionable from my POV as there are awful and excellent teachers - most are somewhere in between those two extremes. If you keep to the original texts, you might be able to start some basic instruction after about three years - although I would say five years would be better. You can start teaching fitness and exercise after about six months, get a health and safety certificate, insurance and a diploma but it will simply be “Yoga” (CAPITAL “Y” - a name for something else) - NAME ONLY YOGA. If you still ask the question “What is yoga” you probably aren’t there yet, and if you STOP asking the question - you might as well hang yourself because you are dead in the water. Good luck and God Bless.

#77

Surya,

"So basically the reason you call yourself enlightened and awakened is because you practice mindfullness? "

As I have said before - when one comes to one’s liberation one is absolutely choiceless, so there is no question of practicing your own nature. There is a natural awareness that arises which is in continuous communion with one’s true nature. Call it Sahaja Samadhi, call it effortless awareness, call it Union with the Tao, call it whatever you want - it makes no difference. But it is an integration which is such - that to be absorbed in the present becomes a very natural phenomenon. Let it be made very clear - that outside of life itself, the Truth is not to be seen anywhere. Unless you yourself are the living Truth, then you have yet to see into your own nature. To be the living truth means that whether you do something or do nothing - it is there, and if you seek Truth outside of your moment to moment existence, then one is basically chasing a figment of one’s imagination.

“That’s nice that you can wash the dishes and eat with mindfullness, but if this was alone was enough to be become enlightened, then why would Patanjali recommend niyamas,. asanas, pranayama, pratyahara, dharana, dhyana and samadhi, he would have just left it at yama and be done with it. Saved himself a lot of time. Even Buddha did not just recommend right action, right speech etc, his most important part was meditation and samadhi.”

All methods are just skillful means for entry into the methodless. When one arrives to the methodless - it is not a question of practice. To live in communion with your true nature from moment to moment has nothing to do with yama or niyama - in fact there is no longer a need to follow such rules and regulations which are just a temporary substitute for functioning out of one’s own natural intelligence. For a man who is awakened - even if he steals, it makes no difference to his awakening at all. Because actions have no quality in themselves - it is one’s state of awareness which is running beneath it which determines their quality. The same action done by one who is conscious is of a totally different nature than the same action done by one who is unconscious. Neither is “morality” anything more than just your own relative ideas about the matter. What is “right” and “wrong”, “good” and “bad”, are none other than reflections of your own mind. Depending on your identifications - you will have different standards as to what those words mean. So these “yamas” and “niyamas” are nothing more than skillful means - it is just an attempt to create an outer and inner situation which is supportive for the expansion of consciousness. There are many ways to do this, there is no absolute approach, only relative strategies.

#78

Yogi Mat,

“about 20 years is about the minimum you need to look at becoming a well-rounded teacher.”

As different human beings expand at their own unique pace - there is nothing which is fixed in stone about what is needed to become “qualified” enough to be capable of teaching others. For some - what may take 20 years may take just one year for another. For others, what may take one year for another may happen in a split moment. For Gautama Buddha - it took him more than six years to come to his awakening - with enormous training and discipline. For Ramana Maharishi, without any training at all, at a very young age - he became awakened. The conditions which bring about “awakening” are too complex to start trying to understand them through the intellect, and if one thinks this to be exclusively a matter of time, one is simply delusional.

#79

“Imho”

Your opinion is barely humble. Otherwise you would not be declaring the humbleness in your opinion.

“one first needs to have a good teacher, and then at least a few years of sadhana.”

There are those who have a “good” teacher, practice years upon years of sadhana - coming to all kinds of experience, in fact hunting for experience, and still remain asleep. One still has not touched on the essential matter.

#80

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;57105]“Imho”

Your opinion is barely humble. Otherwise you would not be declaring the humbleness in your opinion.

“one first needs to have a good teacher, and then at least a few years of sadhana.”

There are those who have a “good” teacher, practice years upon years of sadhana - coming to all kinds of experience, in fact hunting for experience, and still remain asleep. One still has not touched on the essential matter.[/QUOTE]

Easy with the animosity brother! Have I done or said anything to offend you, that warrants this kind of scathing sarcasm?