[QUOTE=Yogamark;40649][QUOTE=CityMonk;40354]
Yes CityMonk the training is recognized by Yoga Alliance, and yes I will be registered with Yoga Alliance in November.[/QUOTE]
This is sounds interesting. Can you please give me more info on this.
Thank you
[QUOTE=lotusgirl;39340]I have loved gardening for many years and read tons of books and went to many workshops. I had an opportunity to go through Master Gardener training and I did. I went into it thinking, “How much more could I learn?” Boy was I surprised about what I didn’t know. I was ultimately glad I took this next step. [/QUOTE]
I see what you are saying… but lets assume that you are doing gardening for the entire life every day , since you are 10yo. Your parents have taught you how to plant and harvest, how to trim the trees and get rig of bugs and desease; you know 80% of the world plants by name, you have planted a beautiful garden in South America and one in the north pool.
And here the fellow comes just brand new from the gardening master training.
Guess who has more to share?
[QUOTE=CityMonk;53081]I see what you are saying… but lets assume that you are doing gardening for the entire life every day , since you are 10yo. Your parents have taught you how to plant and harvest, how to trim the trees and get rig of bugs and desease; you know 80% of the world plants by name, you have planted a beautiful garden in South America and one in the north pool. And here the fellow comes just brand new from the gardening master training.
Guess who has more to share?[/QUOTE]
The intention of formal training is not to prove or suggest that those without it have nothing to share.
It’s possible that someone with a lot of training is a terrible teacher (or gardener), and it’s also possible that someone with no training is a wonderful teacher. I personally have learned so much from yoga teacher training courses and can’t imagine how I would have taught without them. At the same time, I saw people go through the same courses I did and appear to learn nothing. My point is, regardless of someone’s certificates or lackthereof, finding a teacher you jibe with is basically buying a pig in a poke until you actually take a class with that teacher.
[QUOTE=trinley;53116]The intention of formal training is not to prove or suggest that those without it have nothing to share.
It’s possible that someone with a lot of training is a terrible teacher (or gardener), and it’s also possible that someone with no training is a wonderful teacher. I personally have learned so much from yoga teacher training courses and can’t imagine how I would have taught without them. At the same time, I saw people go through the same courses I did and appear to learn nothing. My point is, regardless of someone’s certificates or lackthereof, finding a teacher you jibe with is basically buying a pig in a poke until you actually take a class with that teacher.[/QUOTE]
I think you just summed up everything I was thinking throughout this entire thread, thank you for your wisdom and clarity.
[QUOTE=CityMonk;40639][QUOTE=charliedharma;39358]
I did not say that dvds and books is an optimal souse of learning. My point is that for $2000 (an average for 200hr) one can attend the best workshops and seminars, retreats. That can be more informative and tailored accordingly to partitioner level.
I would feel that I rip off my students if I teach yoga after only 200 hour training! That is incredible to take responsibility of teaching after [B]20 hours of anatomy[/B], [B]30 hours of yoga philosophy[/B], and [B]100 left for: asanas, pranayamas, kriyas, chanting, mantra, meditation,[/B] and “OTHER YOGA TECHNIQUES”:))
I do not meant to negate an importance of 200 rys standards, but facts are speaking for themselves…
Lotusgirl, I’m glad to hear that yoga studios hire based on experience…[/QUOTE]
CityMonk,
This is true far too much emphasis is put on certification and being Yoga Alliance registered. Are there no Yogis in the world uncertified that are not experts and great teachers and practitioners? Of course there are many!
Though it is good to have a ‘standard’ of quality at least if someone is 200/500 hours you know they have good knowledge of Yoga - though does not necessitate they are great teachers.
Your example of going to seminars/workshops with people, someone may have done 200+ hours with many different leading teachers in that way but not be fully certified or registered with Yoga Alliance or another similar organisation. In martial arts for example, I know many that have very high standard and great teachers but have no certificates or black belts at all - they studied with seminars, classes, home study, etc. Not forgetting Bruce Lee! - no black belt or grade, no certification, yet nobody would doubt he was an undispituted Master.
I think with Yoga you either can do it or you can’t, if a 500hour registered Instructor (in perfect health) can not do any remotely advanced exercises, you would have to question their skill & knowledge.
Many places such as gyms employing Instructors will do a check on certification , in the U.S. some will look specifically for someone to be Yoga Alliance registered, though again it is not the be all and end all of Yoga having a nice certificate - variations in teacher training courses and standard is huge!, some you basically turn up and get your certificate, others will really test you and not certify you unless you are good enough.
[QUOTE=CityMonk;53081]I see what you are saying… but lets assume that you are doing gardening for the entire life every day , since you are 10yo. Your parents have taught you how to plant and harvest, how to trim the trees and get rig of bugs and desease; you know 80% of the world plants by name, you have planted a beautiful garden in South America and one in the north pool. And here the fellow comes just brand new from the gardening master training.
Guess who has more to share?[/QUOTE]
Rabbit or Hare what are the odds?
As long as the garden master training was from a reputable organization than
I would hire the garden master trainer more times out of ten.
A lifetime of doing something wrong does not make it right!
Just because their dear old Da taught them to trim trees at the wrong time in the wrong season because it or dumb luck worked good enough for him? I’ve seen this so many times in so many fields.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.City Monk,
“I’m thinking about getting certified but this rip-off thing is something what is holding me. I do not want to pay bunch of money just to hear again something I’ve already know or not interested in (like chanting)”
Initially, the yogic sciences have never had any kind of certification, it is not an academic study. It has less to do with gathering knowledge, and more to do with coming to know yourself, through and through, and the transformation that arises out of coming to know oneself. The closest thing to any kind of “ceritfication” has been to be initiated into a tradition, which is itself not really a necessity for awakening. Most of the yogic sciences for centuries were just transmitted orally from master to disciple, there has never been a need to drag something as superficial as certification into the matter. Do you think that Patanjali has any certification, or Gautama Buddha ? A master is always uncertified, because a master does not mean a master over a particular subject, or a field of study. It simply means one who has come to know oneself, who has awakened to his original nature and is in living communion with one’s true self. A disciple does not require any certification either, because a disciple just means one who is initiating a discipline.
Since yoga had become imported from the East to the West, it has just become a commodity, a product in the marketplace which is just intended to fulfill the demand and supply of the people in the marketplace. Because the conditioning of the Western mind has been revolving around the ways of the body, now everything in yoga has become just about the body. All those more physical techniques which were intended just as preparation for meditation - have now all been reduced to just a series of physical exercises, or as a way to reduce stress. What was a gateway to the divine has now become just part of the ego-nourishing industry which has spread almost all over the Earth. In this way, what has happened has been a great disservice to the science, it has lost it’s original spirit for the sake of man’s greed.
Yoga, if one is going to consider it according to the very meaning of the word, Union, does not require certification of any kind. But certainly it requires qualification. And the qualification is, not through degrees, but through coming to a direct experience of your original nature and liberation from the causes of suffering. Only one who has ignited his own flame can become capable of triggering it’s discovery in another, only a Buddha is capable of assisting another towards his Buddhahood.
But if what one is calling yoga is the kind of yoga that exists in the market, then it does not require much. Just a few months of a few years of training to receive a certificate is enough - and you can start teaching yoga.
Yes it would be nice if students education themselves in finding an appropriate instructor. Valid recommendations from those who have firsthand experienced rather than base it on a ?certification? seems to make sense. But as a wise man once said; ?What another may have said on the matter is relevant only as far as one’s own experience is concerned, they are just a finger pointing to the moon?. I learned early on, when coming across a long line I should check it out, see who?s filling up classes etc. The unfamiliar will most likely buy into the ?certification? and if you livelihood depends on it then you must consider.
[QUOTE=thomas;39412]Just curious if those who have been through teacher training have felt it was worth the time and money regarding what you actually learned, and not regarding whatever credentials you received.
I went to one workshop at our studio that was part of teacher training, but students were allowed to come too. It was an all day affair, and I felt the 8 hours could easily have been condensed into 2 hours with better preparation.
It makes me wonder if that’s the case with the 200 hour course they sell for $3,000. Are those 200 hours jam packed with good things or is there much redundancy, teaching what the student already knows, and wasted time?
I did not go to the all-day seminar for ethics training which was also part of the teacher course. I had a hard time understanding why anyone would need to pay $150.00 to learn ethics that could easily be gleaned from a book, and that are a natural part of any person of goodwill’s life, or any person who has had any religious training or experience. I happened to talk to one of the attendee’s of the class and she said it was pretty much a rehash of a three hour class she previously attended from the same teacher, and that it was very repetitious, drawn out, and gruelling.
So if this is the case, it seems ironic to me that someone could charge $150.00 to teach about asteya, especially if some students already paid for the same information in other classes, and if the time could have been better used and not wasted.
This same teacher complained in an article in a yoga magazine that too many want to be teachers too soon, and yet he is part of the organization at my studio that is getting $3,000 per student for teacher training with a minimum requirement of having practiced two years, or less with the approval of a teacher.
I understand people need to be paid for what they do, and studios need to cover their overhead, but I also have a cynical side that makes me question whether something it truly legitimate and necessary or whether it is a racket.[/QUOTE]
I am doing yoga teacher training right now. I have mixed feelings about it. First off I myself have been practicing for about 10 years but not regularly for the first 5 and pretty consistent for the past 5 and thought I wasn’t qualified enough to teach although I have already been teaching beginners at the massage school I went to.
A few of the teachers in training have been practicing for less then a year in some cases. Almost none of them practice yoga. (Yoga is breath and mind control meditation) just asana or poses for those unfamiliar with what yoga actually is. I am trying not to be judgemental as that is not a good quality to poses but although it has given me a little boost in confidence and helped me get comfortable in front teaching. Not much is new or groundbreaking to me in the teacher training and feel that I could be teaching the trainers myself. But I do need the credentials to help me build a practice of eager students ready to learn and practice yoga as well as asana
for new practicers of “yoga” it will be helpful but if you are a true yogi its just money paid to get your R.Y.T STAMP next to your name.
it is allot of money making for the studios and I do not really feel all that great about it but people need money to survive. If I was independently wealthy and had no need for money I would teach for free. But lets face reality I love yoga and would like to make money doing something I love because I do need money at this stage in my life
Handsofeye Are you not then part of the problem , in that you are paying for a teacher training programme that you dont think is yoga and the teachers on the course are not doing yoga , did you not research and practise with these people before deciding to take a course with these people ? It amazes me that folk pay out to people that they have no prior knowledge of . I dont get this RYT stamp thing why are people so beholden to it , or so in awe of it that they feel they have to pay large amounts of cash to go on dodgy teacher trainings.
I think you do need to look at the course in a discerning way , because the standards of what passes for yoga as you allude to are quite frankly Pathetic .
http://spiritube.com/rod-stryker/18-million-yogis-video_3533fe7bf.html
Handsofeye I?m glad you shared your thoughts, perhaps some others will educate and research deeper before spending hard earned money and I?m not discrediting YA here cause I have not fully researched it myself however there has been enough feedback on this forum and else ware to warrant a thorough investigation before paying anyone a dime for certification. This goes for anything in life, if one allows others to easily take advantage then they also become part of the problem, negative karma (if that?s possible) is generated.
Yoga allows us to work through all aspects of our life - it is the greatest gift that you can offer anyone, it is not anything like being a electrician, plumber or educator where we are providing a service to get results - the argument for corporate regulation has already been refuted.
Corporate yoga is phoney yoga.
I propose a community led moratorium on all the yoga teacher certification schemes currently on offer.
With all due respect, I do not accept any Yoga teachers who are not at least swamis. That is living examples of people who have mastered their senses and mind using Yoga. I have attended classes of so-called Yoga teachers and I have not been impressed. It is has been a case of the blind leading the blind. I am going to get my Yoga training from the authentic tradition.
“I do not accept any Yoga teachers who are not at least swamis”
Most Swamis are not all too different than most teachers in the West. Although certainly they are more knowledgeable, and have even explored with these methods with some result - but their knowledge has functioning like a veil over their understanding, they are far too entangled in their own tradition. If you ask them any question, they can give you an answer - but all of their answers are just repetitions of the borrowed knowledge that has entered into one’s mind, not different than any priest. These are two extremes. The “teachers” in the West do not have enough knowledge, the swamis in the East have far too much knowledge, and in both cases it comes to the same - whether one has come to a transformation or whether one is still living out of unawareness.
The fact is that as long as one continues clinging to any belief system, tradition, or philosophy - then one is going to be prejudiced, and a prejudiced mind is incapable of discovering Truth.
“I am going to get my Yoga training from the authentic tradition.”
There is no other teaching that can be transferred except through life itself. And life is not a tradition.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56745]With all due respect, I do not accept any Yoga teachers who are not at least swamis. That is living examples of people who have mastered their senses and mind using Yoga. I have attended classes of so-called Yoga teachers and I have not been impressed. It is has been a case of the blind leading the blind. I am going to get my Yoga training from the authentic tradition.[/QUOTE]
So who is your swami Of choice ? My main teacher From my limited perspective has mastered his senses , but he dont call himself no swami.
Amir, we know that you do not consider anything valid, that does not come from your own direct experience or your mouth 
You regard all teachers and masters that are not you to be lesser than you or at the very least suspect, because you claim you are enlightened and know it all - even stuff you have no education on - not only that you claim to be in your post-enlightemment training. You often speak of how inferior knowledge is, and yet you spend most of your time on the Yoga forum giving people unsolicited advice and knowledge - but this is ok, because it is coming from you And you have reached enlightenment, and are now in your post-enlightenment training - so how you can ever be wrong about anything? Verily you are the source of all knowledge for you know the entire nature of being. It does not matter that you did all this all by yourself, never got validated by anybody else, and decided all by yourself you were now enlightened - because it is you - the master of all masters
Please forgive me oh enlightened one, but I am going to take a pause from talking about you, as great as you are. Let us talk about the lesser ones who have been doing sadhana longer than you, the swamis.
To become a swami in the authentic Yoga tradition in India is no cake walk. First you need to be formally initiated as part of a tradition. You will often be given a new yogic name. Each tradition has a sadhana. Then you need do sadhana for at least a decade as part of their tradition. If you are have proven your worth to the tradition and to the established swamis you will be given the title of swami. To meet the title of swami you must show you have control over your senses and mind and an understanding of philosophy. This shows whether you are ready as a teacher or not. It is a very long education, but rest assured, if you have somebody who has earned the title of swami, you know you are in good hands.
I am sorry Amir what was your title again? Oh yes, I forgot, you don’t have one. That is ok, you don’t need it. After all you got your learning from pure inner being itself and have surpassed those lesser swamis
[QUOTE=charliedharma;56752]So who is your swami Of choice ? My main teacher From my limited perspective has mastered his senses , but he dont call himself no swami.[/QUOTE]
I don’t know who your teacher is so I can’t comment.
My favourite swamis are Swami Dayananda Saraswati, Swami Vivekananda, Swami Yogananda Paramhansa, Swami Chinmayananda, Swami Dayananda and Swami Krishnananda.
I consider them my role models and heroes. Although they have all passed away, with the exception of Swami Dayananda, I would have been fortunate to have been initiated by them.
@charliedharma @AmirMourad Please bear no ill will towards Surya Deva - he has shown to be less than reliable in his assertion made elsewhere - in particular in the “Is Yoga Hinduism?” topic.
He has shown to be mostly incapable of non-violent communication and has shown obvious characteristics of being a passive-aggressive personality type.
My recommendation is to add Surya Deva to your ignore list (you can do this from your account menu) so his posts will not distract those of us that can moderate our discussions and take onboard more than one perspective at a time.
To his credit, Surya Deva has managed to reduce the most pluralistic and multi-faceted religion (Hinduism) into a single worldview of the Indian people - which is not only an epic fail but also a gross misrepresentation of the religion he has appointed himself to represent here, his racial origin and yoga.
God bless everyone - and even you SD - for no man is worthy of entire castigation - even if has shown himself to act like a fool.
SD:
rest assured, if you have somebody who has earned the title of swami, you know you are in good hands.
Now what was that SD?
Your bold assertions have a knack of coming undone rather quickly don’t you think?
Well - at least you are consistent in your failures.
DO keep up the good work
Yogi Mat, your post is inappropriate, inflaming and offensive. This kind of behaviour is not allowed on the main Yoga forums. I will report further violations to the staff.
Charliedharma and pretty much everybody on this forum knows me longer than you do, they have already formed their opinions on me. They don’t need a newbie who only joined a few days ago to tell them what to think You really do think the world revolves around don’t you
Your every next few words in whatever you have written since you joined a few days has been an insult. You have insulted me, Neitzsche and Dwai. And now you have helped yourself to another thread to personally condemn me and tell people to put me on an ignore list as if you are some authority on this forum. And here you are calling me aggressive and a violent communicator? It is clear you project a lot.