What is Enlightenment?


#241

Hi Nietzsche,

I’m sorry, but I really don’t have the time to deal with a bazillion multi-page-long posts of… you guys. :wink: Just one thing:

[quote]I think if you continously point that out, you have to care for a reason. Indian civilisation was not simply “advanced”, it was only advanced compared to Germanic people, who, as you like to put it, painted their face and ran naked through the jungle. If there had not been Germanic people, how would Indian people be advanced? Advanced in comparison to whom? Advanced to themselves, 1,000 years earlier? Germanic people were more advanecd each thousand years later as well.

History fail #1000000000000000. Grow out of your supremacist Arian race bias and pick up a textbook on Indian history. SD isn’t calling you narrow minded out of malice.

Sheesh, I didn’t know Nazi supremacist idealism was still alive and well in Germany, albeit in a less conspicuous and more dilute form. [/quote]What? I don’t get your point. I admit that India was more advanced at some point in time. More advanced in comparison with. With for example Germanic people. And if there had not been Germanic people to compare Indian people with? That’s what I ask, you know. Then what? Then Indian people at time Y would be more advanced than the Indian people of time X? I ask/say. And then I say: And so were the Germanic people. At time Y they were more advanced than the Germanic people of time X. Because any people evolve and evolve. Improve and improve.

Did you misunderstand me, youngling? Or how come the German has to be an evil Nazi? How is that supremacist Arian race bias? I’m a racist? How and why? Because you freaks try to pay me back for calling you and your “white man”- and “that’s the way it is”-litany racist?

Is there no way for you to debate at least fair? How undignified, have you neither shame, nor honor? Can’t you make your points at least somewhat reasonable? :???:


#242

[QUOTE=Quetzalcoatl;58936]Hi Nietzsche,

I’m sorry, but I really don’t have the time to deal with a bazillion multi-page-long posts of… you guys. :wink: Just one thing:

What? I don’t get your point. I admit that India was more advanced at some point in time. More advanced in comparison with. With for example Germanic people. And if there had not been Germanic people to compare Indian people with? That’s what I ask, you know. Then what? Then Indian people at time Y would be more advanced than the Indian people of time X? I ask/say. And then I say: And so were the Germanic people. At time Y they were more advanced than the Germanic people of time X. Because any people evolve and evolve. Improve and improve.

Did you misunderstand me, youngling? Or how come the German has to be an evil Nazi? How is that supremacist Arian race bias? I’m a racist? How and why? Because you freaks try to pay me back for calling you and your “white man”- and “that’s the way it is”-litany racist?

Is there no way for you to debate at least fair? How undignified, have you neither shame, nor honor? Can’t you make your points at least somewhat reasonable? :???:[/QUOTE]

India was among the more advanced civilizations of the time, on par with Greece and China.

That you can’t see your racism is sickening.

Whenever you talk about India or any other nation/culture/civilization, you indirectly refer to them as primitive and uncivilized while intimating that the West is civilized, superior, and the source of “the right way” and “the only way.”

If you think I’m ignoring SD’s supremacy, please don’t. I’ve constantly challenged his views of Dharmic supremacy throughout many threads, including this one.

However, the reason I am denouncing the West is because almost all Westerners are cultural supremacists. This isn’t a generalization, but a fact. For almost 1000 years, the hateful and bigoted religion of Christianity was a catalyst for the fermentation of ideas regarding the superiority of European ways. By 1500’s and on, an era when all of the world’s other major civilizations were on the path of irreversible decline due to external and internal factors, these ideas had hundreds of different rationalizations and justifications.

I find it incredibly sad that such ideals of racial and cultural superiority have propagated for generations in the hearts of minds of Western progeny.

If you study history (which you haven’t), even the semi-Eurocentric history taught in schools today, you will find this to be the case.

This is why the Western world is Asuric, Adharmic, and uncivilized. If you were truly civilized, you would not have conquered and destroyed other civilizations on an unprecedented scale. If you were truly civilized, you would have used your knowledge and power responsibly and not for the stripping of a conquered land’s resources, culture, and identity. If you were truly civilized and have actually changed, you would not continue to claim to be superior to everyone else and the source of all philosophy, religion, science, mathematics, logic and wisdom without knowing anyone’s history.

Once again, you guys are not Asuric because you are inherently demonic but because you are [B]CULTURALLY ARROGANT[/B].

There can be no honorable debate when you continue to spout misconceptions in the manner you have been doing.


#243

Q, you have repeatedly been calling me a “damn racist” on this forum and in fact still are. You have implied I was the Hindu equivalent of Nazi, keep drawing parallels between me and Hitler. Although I have said now probably a dozen times I am not racist, I do not believe such a notion as race exists, I do not think one race is biologically superior and I treat all races the same. I even admitted to you I generally find the white people I meet more intelligent, spiritual and high charactered than Indian people I meet. I told you my ex-girlfriend was German and 90% of my friends are white cauasian who are familiar with my views. I also said to you I do not hold you responsible for the crimes of your fatherers. Yet despite this you are still calling me a “damn racist”.

So who is insulting who? If you did not have the fortitude to continue with this debate you should not have started this silly pissing contest a few pages back. You started this, not me. I even said I would start a new thread on the matter in the religion forum - which I have. However, you continued posting here - so I responded here.

I have not reported a single insult you have made against me, and some of your comments both myself, High Wolf and Neitzsche have to be said to be very chauvanistic and offensive. You have repeatedly reminded us India was raped, looted, over and over again and then blame India for being weak. Then you say that India might have been advanced in the past , but today it is you guys because you are rich today. You even justified the invasion of India by saying your people were poor, so they decided to invade India to even out the wealth in the world. This sounds like the statements of a racist white supremist. You sound like you take glee in the suffering of Indians. You are not all apologetic about it.


#244

I just thought of an analogy. The kind of stuff Q is saying here about India would be like me talking to a Native American and telling them how they got looted, pillaged, raped and slaughtered by the West and use that as an argument against them. Impying it is their fault they got looted, pillaged and raped and they deserved it.

Such statement belong to white-supremist and neo-Nazi organizations like Stormfront. Not to civilised members of a Yoga forum.

Take this example for example:

What led the Germans to become Nazis? Was Germany a great nation, rich, happy, etc.? Or was it a miserable poor country, humiliated, weakened? Do you think a great and rich Germany would’ve done the same, would’ve followed the same paroles, committed the same crimes? Here, just by the way, you see what punishment can lead to: Just the next crime, and one far more grave and evil.

In Q’s warped view all our actions are just the consequence of our circumstances and this somehow excuses all our actions. Here he is excusing the actions of Nazi germans for what they did to to the Jews - because of their circumstances. Similarly, he intimated earlier the reason India and other ex-colonies got invaded, was because the West was poor - and they were simply evening out the balance of wealth in the world by invading the rich. As if that is a perfectly permissable thing to do.

If these statements do not sound like somebody who is speaking in justification of war, genocide, conquest, exploitation, plundering, pillaging - then I don’t know what does.

EDIT: Q I will respond to some of the comments in your post in the religion forum in the thread I started. Some of your comments illustrate perfectly the differences between Western civilisation and dharmic civilisation - such as your laxity as regards to immorality.


#245

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;58544]Surya,

You are simply speaking from the prejudice of your identification with the East. The fact is that both the East and the West have qualities which the other lacks, and unless these qualities are balanced and brought into equilibrium with one another - both the East and the West are going to be missing something essential to man becoming a wholesome being.[/QUOTE]

Couldn’t agree more, brother!

It is surprising that even in this age and day, in spite of historical events staring at us in the face, we are still talking about differences!!

All our differences are external. As per the law of causation, each of us being born in a particular part of the world is an event which is the “effect” of a network of past karma. Some of us could, in our past lives, have been living in what we perceive as someone else’s country, race or religion.

It is Yoga that will elevate us all to merge into One Family, One Nation, because yoga addresses and brings out the oneness in all.

Prana Shakti is that oneness, that one bond which is stronger than all our differences put together. As yoga aspirants, let us learn to join our mind with this divine power. Let us practise this idea daily for a few minutes at least, so that this nectar called Prana will dissolve all the outer aberrations.

All one has to do is sit relaxed in any position, allow breathing to take place, [B]without imposing any pattern[/B], and for a few minutes, simply follow the movement of mother prana, i.e. the movement of air, entering and leaving the body.

By this practice one slowly gets relief from the senses and in turn a glimpse of supportless joy.

Regards, anand


#246

that’s actually simple: Because you declare us to be not civilised. You declare us to be “going around” and “invading, exploiting, looting and raping”. You declare some rate of divorce or depression as an indicator for the grade of civilisation.

In many ways you are civilized and in many ways, you are not civilized. In our opinion, your civilization’s flaws outweigh your perfections. Why? Because of arrogance, pride, and willful ignorance.

That’s how [you think] it works. I personally did not ever even speak about being civilised, what should that be anyways, asking you, I’m sure it’s behaving in a way you think is appropriate.

No.

However, even if you disagreed with the circumstances being the reason for a nation to be violent, non-violent, or, if you will, “civilised”, you still have not named a single alternative. So please: What could it be?

What do you mean by alternatives? If you mean “what can we do to change,” simply:

  1. Pick up a history book.
  2. Understand that you are, as an aggregate, not superior to anyone or anything.
  3. Learn to respect other cultures and viewpoints. Just because the West thinks its a virtue to let people degrade themselves by watching porn, that does not mean other cultures hold the same view point. As long as you can defend your position, others will find reason enough to not necessarily agree with you, but empathize.

And I picked Germanic people as one example. Germanic people were less advanced than Romans and Greeks and all sorts of other cultures. And probably more advanced than a few others.

Again you simply refuse to deal with the point, skippy.

And look where you guys arrived at. Those are the kinds of developments we need to cherish.

Instead of bashing another nation for a perceived [B]inherent[/B] flaw, like caste (though its more of a societal than a religious system) or slavery, you should understand it as either a developmental stage or low point of the civilization in question.

But no, most Westerners will not and cannot do this. They think the reason other countries are the way they are is because they are inherently inferior to the West. Not only is this pooping on 10,000 years of human development since the last Ice Age but also ignoring factors such as colonialism, imperialism, missionary activity, and so on.

So in other words you pick two people, IVC and Sumeria, compare them, belittle one of them (Sumeria) and glorificy the other (IVC), but to discuss the hows and whys is still impossible. You refuse to admit it’s the circumstances, reason: It would reduce the glory of ancient India. If it were just the circumstances, it wouldn’t be a surprise or big deal. If it was just an easy life in a large land with no competitor that gave India the chance to advance faster, how lame would that be, hm?! Even lamer than your style of “debate”.

I agree with your point but not the way you are presenting it.

Au contraire, IVC is actually considered from more or less the same roots as Egypt and Sumer. In Eurocentric history, IVC used to be depicted as a “satellite” region of Sumeria but it is now acknowledged as a unique civilization with historical and genetic ties to Sumer and Egypt.

Furthermore, there is nothing short of miraculous about this finding. It proves many things about the migration of populations from Africa, theories on the development of civilizations, and so on. It is miraculous that these civilizations developed the way they did, just as it is miraculous that Europe had a sudden outburst of creativity and cultural development during the Renaissance.

I fail to see how presenting historical circumstances diminishes the awesomeness of an event, person/group, place or thing.

The problem arises when people (like most Westerners today) ignore historical circumstances and cite the reason for Western superiority as a superior culture, race, religion, and ideology.

So there are races. Sure they all have the same potential. That’s why I wonder why you still have to refuse to accept that India and Indian people were only more advanced culturally due to circumstances. Why do you desire so much that there were your obscure “other reasons”? If all races are the same, why not admit yours was simply lucky in the dawn of civilisation?

Because you’re a damn racist…?

But this is a question about which civilization’s values are superior. Sure the West and India each [B]rose[/B] to power because of historical circumstances, the geography, and, most importantly, the actions of the people in the civilization themselves. But what did the West [B]do[/B] with its power? Cause death, destruction, violence, ignorance, and massive jingoism.

This wouldn’t even be a subject to argue about if the West had long given up its supremacy. But it hasn’t. This naturally leads one to find out what the hell is wrong with Western civilization. Answer: ideology. Supremacist and bigoted ideology with roots in the Judeo-Christian tradition.

So you say that the culture of “the West” (actually like 5,000 different cultures)

This is quite incorrect. The cultures of the Nordic people, Germanic people, Slavic people, Scandinavians, etc are no more. Why? Christianity. Conversion by the sword. Proselytization. Taking advantage of polytheistic pluralism to subvert the culture in question. What cultures the ancient Europeans had are no more. All that’s left is Christianity (or rather the influence of its exclusivism) and a big pile of supremacy.

punished. Who is there to be brought to justice by whom? If it’s not me, the living part of my culture, then who? You keep repeating to whine about the past: What for? You keep blaming western culture for the past: Why? We who live today, as you say now and claim to have said before, aren’t responsible. So what do you want? What’s your point? Are you against wrong doings in the present? Then why (the hell) do you emphasize the past 24/7? Are you against military actions in the present? Dude, I’m pretty much with you here. Are you against exploitation of poor countries? Exactly my opinion. How come we don’t discuss such topics and always talk about a past that’s done and gone, about wrong doings that happened in the past, with noone responsible alive anymore? Let’s talk about the present! What topics are there? You mentioned some: In some book, the author didn’t think the Bhagavad Gita was a great book. Holy lord, how dare he! What book was it, anyways? And you think that Indian literature is not recognised?? I don’t see how and why, please show me, all I always hear and read is that it’s great.

And what are you today but the exact same as your ancestors, with all their supremacy, racism, and bigotry?

Westerners have not repented. Most of them continue to believe their culture and civilization is superior. You have not learned from your past.

We want Westerners to learn from their past and CHANGE themselves. But they will not listen. You will not listen. You continue to patronize other cultures and civilizations. You all continue to invade other countries for your own selfish interests, all in the name of “democracy” and “freedom.”

That is why we are arguing with you.

And you mentioned the Dalits being converted to Christianity? Well, it’s always easy to convert people that are discriminated by their own people/religion. My suggestion: Stop that discrimination and prejudice and make “Dalits” feel at home and welcome and part of the community. Really abolish the caste system.

We will tell you for the final time that the caste system is more societal than religious. It was reinstated and reinforced by the British. Moving on:

So you condone that conversion? You condone the kind of conversion that turns people into ignorant haters of their own nation and people. You condone conversion into a religion that is intolerant of all other religions?

We are doing our best to stop that discrimination. All sorts of Hindu organizations have cropped up over the decades to help the Dalits. My grandparents run a school for the underprivileged, including Dalits. My dad and his uncles donate considerable amounts of money to charities in India. India had abolished the caste system in 1947 and created a reservation system (akin to affirmative action) for the underprivileged.

And if we Hindus were still clinging onto the caste system (which does happen in the rural areas that account for 70% of India’s population, but those areas are not representative of India, just as anti-black, segregated, anti-immigrant, and anti-evolution areas of the U.S are hardly representative of America), then explain why an untouchable is one of the richest people in Varanasi.

But still this is not enough for the Dalits. They continue to denounce Hinduism, Hindus, and India despite the changing character of the Indians. They continue to denounce Hinduism despite clear evidence that the caste system was indirectly reinforced by Muslim and European invasions, when it was already losing influence in society.

The majority of Dalits want nothing more than the obliteration of Hindus and Hinduism. They will not forgive and forget despite the fact that the majority of Indians have repented and are changing.

And are you kidding me? “Abolish caste system for good?” Maybe we will work on it when you can abolish racism in the West.

Oh, that’s right, you can’t.

Filthy hypocrites.

What else have you got? Child labor? Should be banned. Exploitation of farmers and such in poor countries? Should be banned. There are efforts to do so, for example I think it’s even illegal (in Germany) to import goods that were manufactured with child labor involved. And there is this “Fair trade”-movement to avoid exploitation. Personally I always try to avoid to buy food that comes from other countries, but buy stuff that’s grown locally.

Child labor? Using child labor is banned in India, filthy racist Mr. Hitler. Child labor is indeed used in traditional farm areas, and there is nothing wrong with that. That’s how farmers in every civilization/culture/nation survive; by having the entire family work alongside them.

Exploitation of farmers? I don’t know what the f*** you’re talking about Mr. Hitler. Agriculture is one of the biggest economic sectors in India. If we were discriminating against farmers, we would lose much of our production base.

If there is any region of the world that has persecuted farmers, its the Western world. Farmers, especially in American politics, have been the most underrepresented and mistreated people in history. In fact, the farmers were so fed up with their treatment in America (high internal tariffs, laissez-faire economics that allowed business to run their corrupt bargains, etc) that they formed organizations such as the Grangers and eventually, the Populist Party. This political party was one of the most successful third party in American history, but it IS unfortunate that they were put down by the military and became racist.

However, I think that these problems are problems that you cannot just blame a nation or a culture for, that is a problem that lies within the companies that are interested in making money. I don’t see that as a cultural phenomenon, you can find people who betray or abuse or exploit others for personal profit in any culture, including India.

Nice to finally hear this.

But lets not forget your constant mantra of “caste, caste, caste, caste, caste” without you actually knowing its history and development (once again, thanks to the British and the Muslims, castes became highly stratified and people within castes became more intolerant of one another).

But the question remains why the majority sided with the Nazis and in fact became Nazis, which lead to the Nazis being in power which lead to the Nazis killing the Jews (and starting WWII, with ~ 60 million victims). How did that happen? You call me narrow minded for stating it were the circumstances: What’s your alternative explanation? You keep saying it weren’t circumstances, why don’t you enlighten me about what it was then?

It wasn’t out of racism against Jews but out of the despair of the German people. Their economy was faltering due to the rampant inflation their government had to create to pay off war reparations to the Allies. When the Great Depression in America started, Germany was in the toilet.

In times like these, you have people called “demagogues,” Surya Deva. People that prey upon the emotions, fears, and prejudices of the people to gain political/social power.

You evade evade evade. You want to deny deny deny that circumstances lead to wrong doings. If it’s not the circumstances, then what the hell is it? What does make a man a thief or a killer? Such a simple question. What led the Germans to become Nazis? Was Germany a great nation, rich, happy, etc.? Or was it a miserable poor country, humiliated, weakened? Do you think a great and rich Germany would’ve done the same, would’ve followed the same paroles, committed the same crimes? Here, just by the way, you see what punishment can lead to: Just the next crime, and one far more grave and evil.

Germany should have been punished, but not to the degree the Allies wanted it to be.

What statement? I ask a question and state that “it kinda seems”. Is it not true that India was always easy to conquer for anybody? No problem, I don’t know Indian history any much. So it was hard?

Depends on the time periods you are talking about. Every time India was invaded, India was already suffering from a lack of unity and internal strife. However, in those times throughout history where we united, we were unconquerable.

Sounds like an easy thing to do, just go there and take what you need, kill 80 million Indians here, tens of millions there.

You do forget that our civilization’s population was extremely high for its time, right? Populations never get that high unless you have civilizations that FLOURISH immensely throughout history.

And you do realize that our population was heavily concentrated in the Gangetic Plains and better-climate South India/West India?

Even then, you do realize this estimate is an aggregate of the deaths by the decades or centuries?

With idiotic comments like these, it is no small wonder that SD accused you for enjoying the deaths of tens of millions of people.

So fighting for survival is ok, right? It’s ok to kill other people if the alternative would be to die? Please respond. :lol:

Yeah, and the Muslims and the Europeans didn’t kill because they were fighting for survival, Mrs. Arian Hitler. They killed for converts, gold (new trade routes, catch up with the Spaniards), and glory. In short, it was greed. Europe was nowhere close to being overpopulated or being depleted of resources by the time it started conquering.

I wouldn’t know that my ancestors ever did anything to India. Did I miss something?

Oh trust me, Germans played a HUGE role in spreading anti-Hindu propaganda and rewriting our history to match British colonial interests and need for racial supremacy.

I actually think that morality is nonsense overall, and to grant a people freedom is the virtue of the West. :wink:

I disagree with this but understand the angle you are coming from. See what I did there?

We Indians can show tolerance. You guys can’t. That’s why most of you are racist and supremacist.

If one has no control over their senses, I agree they need to improve. But why would somebody who watches porn not have control over their senses? Why would one who watches porn not have the ability for great compassion, charity, love, friendship and wisdom?

Yeah, great point! Why would someone who rapes another not have control over their senses? sarcasm

But I agree with the latter rhetorical question. Just because someone watches porn, that does not make them inherently evil.

You gave no single argument for anything being wrong about porn. Is it wrong to love eating tasty food to?

Dude, if you can’t see that porn is bad, then you have no right to be insulted when we call you asuric.

And I’m sure parents would also opine that porn is bad…unless you think exposing an innocent child at a young age to porn is good.

I reported this post, just btw, cuz you’re taking it too far with your insults. You need some punishment, maybe get banned for a week, so you learn not to do this again. I, though, think it only reflects your helplessness. If you have no other way to respond to arguments, you try to insult your opponent away.

How hypocritical.

See, you give no single reason. You just repeat traditional values. Why not? Besides being my parents, my parents are my friends, I don’t call them “Madam” and “Sir”.

I disagree with both SD and you on this one. Cultures and cultures and different cultures have different ways of expressing their love and appreciation for parents.

In the West, its a normal thing to kiss parents on the lips. Its just a form of appreciation and love.

No need to bash either the Indian way or the Western way of appreciation.

In India it doesn’t. Never ever. Really. Because dharmic traditions forbid it.

Its not explicitly forbidden, Mrs. Arian Hilter. Its just [B]DIFFERENT[/B] in our culture. Both of you can stop arguing about the meaning of different forms of parental appreciation.

I thought this is about the woman being the housekeeper. Now it’s about the woman being the mother. What if there is no child?

Then they can go out and work while taking care of the rest of the family, Mrs. Arian Hitler.

And why can’t the father do that?

Why doesn’t the father do that in the Western world? Oh right, because our societies [B]AREN’T MATRIARCHAL[/B], Mrs. Arian Hitler.

Yeah dude, of course it is. The question is, why has it to be the job of a woman. It can as well be the father. The father can stay at home and take care of the household and the children and the mother goes to work.

What the **** is this? Majority of fathers in patriarchal societies don’t do this. What the **** does this have to do with Western vs Dharmic culture?

Or the mother sacrifices her own leisrue to work and the father his to look after the children. Or, and that’s how my wife and I handle it, they split it. I look as much after our son as his mother, and I often even do more at home, because I work at home. There’s surely something wrong according to your primitive-uhm-I-mean-dharmic worldview: Explain what!

And what the hell is wrong with either way, white supremacist Mr. Arian Hitler? Besides, it isn’t even a set Dharmic rule or credo. If a family wants to divide up the work, then they divide up the work. Its just that the other way is most commonly done not only in Indian society but in most societies.

Oh, I do understand it quite well. To take care of a household is not exactly a work that is considered to be manly, you know, wash clothes, prepare food, clean the toilet. You call it dharma: Well. :wink:

No Mr. Hitler, taking care of a household is something even most fathers don’t do. Doesn’t matter if they are Western, Dharmic, Indian, African, and so on.

To be honest, no one even cares if you take care of the household on a level comparable to that of your wife.

See: when I say that India was conquered a lot and it seems to have been quite esay, that’s actually an observation. No glee involved, no pride. You stating that “most” childredn grow up without being sure who their father is and adding a bunch of smileys to it: That’s glee. You like that thought. You like to think that western culture is rotten and all. What’s so likeable about it, Surya Asura?

It is not simply an observation but a retarded observation borne by ignorance.

Surya Deva’s comment was made not out of glee and pride but out of scorn. This is in line with his feelings of Indian superiority.

However, it’s indeed the case that in the West parents can take a break of being parents every now and then. It’s common. You let the kids grandparents watch over it or you leave it at a friends house, who has children as well, and they sometimes leave your kids with you. Or you leave the kids with the fathers and the mothers go out or the other way. Why wouldn’t you? So you have some free time for yourself to have some non-kid-fun, that provides you with some energy.

Its the same everywhere you nasty white bigot. It isn’t confined to the West or the East or the South or the North.

About the divorce rate: I don’t see the problem again, sorry. If people don’t want to be together anymore, why would they not part? According to your tradition-driven India, the reason why there (are there?) less divorces should be that tradition forbids it, forbids women to got out and meet other men (and therefore men don’t meet other women). So you have families that live a formal life with artificial relationships that are determined by traditions, instead of feelings. Women are not allowed to leave the house and have fun, are not allowed contact with other men, not allowed to divorce if they simply don’t love their husbands anymore. Well, if they ever did in the first place, aren’t mariagges arranged a lot in India? And if it wasn’t banned, widows would even die with their husbands. Why all that would be “civilised” and “advanced culture”: I don’t get it. To me it sounds like oppression.

Don’t see the problem? You don’t see that the high divorce rate is caused by factors such as:

  1. Choosing a partner out of lust/sexual desire.
  2. Lessening tolerance for attempting to make relationships work.

If you don’t see the problem, then you indeed have a problem.

What the **** is up with your stereotypes? Always depicting the West and civilized, superior, and liberal and the rest of the world as primitive, uncivilized, and under-developed.

This is precisely the reason why the world hates the West and precisely the reason why the Western world is uncivilized. [B]Ignorance and arrogance.[/B]

FYI, such a thing is not forbidden in our culture.

You think you can change western culture to live that way? Dude.

If your kind of ignorance is representative of the way all Westerners think, i doubt you guys would be alive to witness such a revolution.

It is a fact, yes. But I do not see what the problem is. Well, I do see a problem that when a couple breaks up and they have a child, that the father or the mother isn’t around all the time anymore and they get to see each other less. On the other hand, if mom and dad don’t love each other anymore and don’t want to be together anymore, they’d be unhappy if they’d be forced to be, which would again affect the child. And if they work it out, both parents can still frequently see the child after a divorce and spend “quality time” together.

Agreed.

Dharma, that’s an Indian tradition or something, isn’t it? That you then call the eternal law of the universe or so. :wink:

Or perhaps you are too ignorant to know what Dharma is?

That’s right, run to Google.

And while you were disgruntled by a 60 year old woman having a good time, that 60 year old woman was having a good time. If you asked me, you already have failed in life.

Depends on the type of “good time.” If she was merely out to have one or two drinks and relax, then yes.

If she was out getting drunk, doing more drugs, blah blah, then…its whatever you think it is.

If you ask me, you have already failed you life, your race, and your nation by being such an ignorant and bigoted member of your society.

I think your so-called virtue is a set of primitive traditions that are mostly installed to oppress women, hold them down, make them the slaves of men, breed their children, wash their clothes, clean their toilets, and so forth. I despise it.

And I despise the fact that you THINK our traditions are like that. No wonder Muslims hate you guys so much.

Westerners like you are responsible for genocides, wars, and fundamentalist backlash. But you’re probably proud of it.

Never before have I felt such kinship with the Muslims.

Ok, if Deva means “no porn” and “no divorces” and “don’t befriend your parents” and “many churches” then India is Deva + I don’t care to be Deva.

Not? Then what are you saying?

What does that mean? Not getting away?

Ok. :wink:

…________
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,-%… …\ ...................................,<|,-&``… …`

India: The eternal victim.

…________
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,-%… …\ ...................................,<|,-&``… …`

And China is a threat to the West…? Hey, maybe the west and India can team up when war breaks out? Wouldn’t that be awesome? You and me, side by side fighting China? High five!

And to the Western status quo.

Nah, if China and the West get into a war, India will remain neutral.

And its actually quite a fitting match. The two most Eurocentric civilizations in history battling one another! I wonder what the war will be like!

China - “We invent DUH printing pressuh, duh paper, like-duh gunpowder, and the sundaiiiiill…”

West - “We are civilized and you are not.”

India - “Tank yuuu, cumm ugh-an. Wud you laik sum currie?”

But Pakistan is India. It’s the same people, just that they split off and called themselves “Pakistan”. I’m not familiar with all the causes, but what I see:

Crude, but accurate.

And then

Two (or three?) nations battling about a piece of land. Of course Indians will say the others are the evil force. And the others will say, India is. As usual.

Yeah, the land belongs to us. It was inhabited by Hindus called the “Kashmiri Pundits” for millennia. Several Buddhist and Hindu monasteries were built there you know. There was one monastery with 4 doors. Each door represented the 4 regions of India, South, North, East, and West. A door was opened whenever a philosopher of note from a particular region of India debated his way up to the top of the echelon.

Too bad all of these temples were destroyed by marauding Muslims. Even then, a lineage of Hindu kings ruled there.

During independence times, the Muslims, who wanted Kashmir, rushed there by the hundreds of thousands in order to claim a region with a Muslim majority. We Indians didn’t care. During Partition however, it came as no surprise when the Hindu king who ruled the place chose to join India.

= angry Muslims. Now remember the population of Hindu Kashmiri Pundits I was talking about? Yeah, I think they made up about 40% of the population by this time. What happened to them? Murdered. Raped. Driven out.

All by the Muslims.

One of the worst genocides in history.

But who knows or cares about this? Surely not the biased Western media!

And now the Hindu population there is next to non-existent.

The facts remain the facts, India/Pakistan are warring nations, once brothers, now fighting each others. What exactly is that Deva-concept again…?

Actually, it illustrates what you call the “Deva concept” quite well. Asuric Muslims, with their demonic religion, can’t get along with Hindu devas. So, like any Asura, they fight, kill, start wars, and rinse, lather, and repeat. :stuck_out_tongue:

Ok, so you aint’t trying to make a difference with your posts - it was just a question, my friend. And what about that discussion? I see no discussion. You have your point of view and that’s it. You repeat it over and over again. There is - I said it before - no coming to terms with you. On the contrary are you doing everything to insult and belittle your opponents. They are like animals to you, if they don’t agree with your conservative traditional world-view. How is that a discussion? You’re here to inform people and spread you viewpoint. That’s also called “propaganda” - remember when I was the first to expose who and what you are? Was back in the days when you still was civilised and started your posts with “Namaste”. How come you gave that up, btw? I still greet you in each and every post. :slight_smile:

No, we are trying to eradicate the kind of racism/ignorance/bigotry you seem to be an embodiment of, in addition to any misconceptions about Hinduism, India, and Hindus. This is not propaganda but a campaign for better representation.

Respect should be earned, not given. So far, you have done nothing to earn that respect.


#247

Please continue your discussion here: http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/f33/the-clash-of-civilisations-indian-vs-western-8002.html#post58960


#248

Hi Surya Asura,

look. I don’t mind a heated debate, as I said. Actually, to be honest, I don’t even mind you claiming that I would be proud of the sins of my ancestors, like gassing millions of Jews. I don’t care what some random idiots on teh interwebs think. :stuck_out_tongue: I just thought and think that you need/ed to be punished for your unfair style of debate, at least when you take it that far. You know, to teach you a bit. So you keep it down a bit. But as it seems - I did not even get a minor comment from David’s side - it’s no problem. You can accuse anyone of anything these days. I kinda was thinking about when back in the days, when I expressed an opinion that even was that of David’s himself, I was in the center of the authorities attention and this close to being permanently banned from this board. For reasonable criticism. Now it’s fine to accuse one with horrible things like “you’re proud of your ancestors having killed kids and babies”. Yay!

And btw, you started both this discussion and the “pissing contest”. In this post:

http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=57700&postcount=80

I set an urban legend on 100 monkeys straight and noted that there is no scientific proof for enlightenment etc. Which is the case. In your reply you started the contest, with comments like

Quantum physics is pretty much a nod to what the dharmic tradition has been saying for yonks

As modern science is backwards, our dharmic tradition can fill you in on the blanks.

Unfortunately, to get to the final stages may yet take modern science a few more centuries. This century will be known as the quantum century or what we call the pranic sciences. All these dicoveries have happened before in previous yugas - our knowledge comes from past yugas when science was more advanced.
And then I showed you how “backwards” modern science is.

Finally:

You have repeatedly reminded us India was raped, looted, over and over again
lol As if it weren’t you who repeated this over and over and over again, accusing me to be sorta like responsible for that. As if I did that. You even say stuff like “you invaded us”, “you raped us”, “you are barbarians”, etc.

and then blame India for being weak.
Even though using the word “blame” is rethorics here, it’s still somewhat true. Why was India not able to defend itself? Europe for example was. I wouldn’t “blame” the native Americans to be less powerful than the European invaders, but the super-advanced culture of India? It at least needs an explanation, doesn’t it.

Yet, “blaming” is not the right word, it’s something that demands an explanation.

Then you say that India might have been advanced in the past , but today it is you guys because you are rich today.
Sure. And it’s the case. Indian was advanced in the past, but today it’s us guys. Because we are rich today. And we have made great scientific progress too. That you deny, because you are, hm, what again? Since you admitted it’s not in the blood, I already have stopped calling you a damn racist. But what are you now? A culturist? An ethnicicist?

You even justified the invasion of India by saying your people were poor, so they decided to invade India to even out the wealth in the world.
See, here you speak of “your people” again. What “my people”? Not even Germany was ever in India. What is this? If not racism? Because I live in the west it were my people who raped and looted India over and over again? No, my friend. My people did nothing to India.

True, though, is, that I tried to find an explanation why India was invaded. Cuz I find this to be a relevant point. For me it’s pointless to just blame the fault of something on someone without asking for reasons. What would that be good for? And - sigh - obviously I made it clear, that an explanation of a crime doesn’t make it just. But one can understand it and then one can forgive the offender, instead of holding a grudge that messes up one’s own life.

This sounds like the statements of a racist white supremist. You sound like you take glee in the suffering of Indians. You are not all apologetic about it.
None of these are my statements, these are your - and I guess intential - misinterpretations of what I ask and say. I know all about this kind of behaviour, it has been performed by the Jews on Germans since around the year 2000, when Germany came to end accepting that any form of criticism or critical reflection on the holocaust was anti-semitism. The sound you claim to hear really is the infamous corner-pushing. If one asks “how come India was invaded so much” you punish them. That’s not a question you want to hear. If one reflects on why other cultures invaded India, you don’t want to hear and even less do that, so you punish them as well by pushing them into a corner. You do that in the hilarious racism-uhm-I-mean-religion forum all the time, that’s how you deal with anything that questions Indias role in all of this or might disburden the offenders and their progeny the tiniest bit. I said it before: It’s you being helpless. If you have nothing else to reply, you bite and spit and pull hair. You’re shameless, you have no honor whatsoever, you’re a disgrace to your parents, your religion and your country. Too bad, Surya Deva, why don’t you wake up? I have no doubt you feel the conflicts of the crap you pull off, it’s too obvious to go unnoticed. Just deal with the critcism that is provided to you instead of simply bitching it away. You do that all the time, all the time people who engage you in a discussion give it up because you push them into corners they do not belong into, I know of no exception. Everybody is evil or an idiot or a racist or hates Hinduism. Everybody! Even other Hindus that disagree with you. Isn’t that totally obviously hilarious?

Sunny weather, my friend, is calling for me. :wink:


#249

I just thought and think that you need/ed to be punished for your unfair style of debate, at least when you take it that far. You know, to teach you a bit. So you keep it down a bit. But as it seems - I did not even get a minor comment from David’s side - it’s no problem. You can accuse anyone of anything these days. I kinda was thinking about when back in the days, when I expressed an opinion that even was that of David’s himself, I was in the center of the authorities attention and this close to being permanently banned from this board. For reasonable criticism. Now it’s fine to accuse one with horrible things like “you’re proud of your ancestors having killed kids and babies”. Yay!

I think that is probably because you are not exactly an innocent victim in this exchange. In your current post here is what you said:

You’re shameless, you have no honor whatsoever, you’re a disgrace to your parents, your religion and your country.

I could have complained about your ages ago for the many offensive and insulting things you have said to me, about my people and about my motherland. If I compiled such a list it would be a rather large list. However, I did not do this, because I know I am just as responsible for participating in this pointless pissing contest you started. So if I get burnt as a result it is because I decided to play with fire. If you cannot take being burnt, then don’t play with fire.

Indeed, this pointless pissing contest of “my dad vs your dad” was indeed started by you. I made a reply to somebody else that modern science was backwards compared to Vedic science. You responded by making this an issue of race of Indians vs Western. Then kindly reminded us that India was raped and looted to deliberately undermine me and my people and make us ashamed and embarrased that we were raped and looted.

You were itching to start this fight and race war for a while and were flame baiting me in several threads. I even said I would not respond to the bait and requested you to stop. However, you continued doing it. This lead to one thread actually being closed. In another thread you said racist remarks like Indians do not dance because they are forbidden to. You obviously had/have serious issues with Indians. This is probably why your current complaints were not taken seriously. To borrow a phrase: You are an arsonist complaining about fire alarms.

You wanted a war and you got one. Now when you cannot take the heat anymore you are crying foul. Hey, I said from the start I didn’t want a war - but you insisted on it so much, I finally obliged you. Although I repeatedly said to you this was not an issue of race, you made it an issue of race. That is most likely Q because you are a racist yourself. You are the only one constantly bringing race into this and then using that as an excuse to make thinly veiled racist comments - such as justifying the invasion, plundering and rape of India because we were hoarding the wealth in the world and were not sharing. Thereby condoning what was done to us. Then repeating in every post how we got invaded by everybody to make us feel bad. It is akin to say to a rape victim, “What did you do to get raped” or “Har har you got raped” It is very obvious you are saying this to hurt Indian people.

It would also be interesting to note that while I have rejected that such thing as race even exists, you have not. You have maintained race does exist. It is clear you are obsessed with race. I have read views similar to yours before - on Stormfront. I will echo what Neitzsche said it is sad to see neo-nazi like views like you have still exist in Germany today. I really hope your type of views are rare. It was rather disgusting to read your defense of the Nazis and what they did to the Jews, stating the Germans were and poor and victims of thier circumstances. So this makes it justified for what they did to the Jews? Seriously how low can you get. I would not be surprised if you do post on Stormfront Q.

Even though using the word “blame” is rethorics here, it’s still somewhat true. Why was India not able to defend itself? Europe for example was. I wouldn’t “blame” the native Americans to be less powerful than the European invaders, but the super-advanced culture of India? It at least needs an explanation, doesn’t it.

Yet, “blaming” is not the right word, it’s something that demands an explanation.

It has already been explained to you that India did in fact defend itself. It has had a strong warrior culture since the beginning. Alexandra the great, who had bulldozed every other nation in his march for world dominion was finally defeated by the mighty Indian army(the largest army in the world in that time) and forced to give up his previously captured territory to India. A minor king at the border was enough to cause his entire army to flee.

The Muslims who had rampaged through Roman countires, Arabian countries, African countries and walked all over mighty Zoroastrian Persia making them all 100% Muslim, faced stiff resistance in India(Even the Muslims record how resilent and combatative the Hindus were) They could barely get anywhere close to South India due to the South Indian Hindu kings. And in the north they were constantly at war with Hindu kingdoms. Then when the British came and took advantage of a declining Mughal empire, Hindus did not stop fighting. The British had to fight many wars with Hindu kingdoms, including the 1857 war of independence. Although Hindus lost the war in the end, they still did not stop fighting. The freedom struggle continued right up until 1947. We fought tooth and nail against a much more stronger enemy miltiarily, and we never stopped fighting. We are still fighting today.

Despite 1000 years of domination by Muslims and Christians, we are still an 80% Hindu country and we been able to preserve a 10,000 year old civilisation and culture - when all other civilisations and cultures have become extinct. Muslims tried very hard to destroy Hindus - they failed. Christians tried very hard to covert Hindus - they failed.
Why? Because Hindus are a very proud people. Why shouldn’t we be? For 5000+ years we have dominated this planet. We were still the richest civilisation on the planet right up until the 18th century. The first peope to have planned urban cities and sanitation, medicine and surgery, universities, hospitals, literature, science, philosophy, republics. Still today it is our Yoga, Ayurveda, Vedanta, Sanskrit, Cuisine that is sought after in the world. Your own Western intellectuals sing our praises. So why shouldn’t we be proud? I consider it my fortune to be the offspring of such a great civilisation. I am very proud.

You were nowhere prior to the 18th century. You got to the top by looting, pillaging and raping Indians. You knew this yourself this is why you called us the “jewel in the crown” and actually stated that as long as India is under the crown the British empire will stand, but when you lose India the empire fall - and that is exactly what happened. If it was not for the loot you took from us you would not have had an industrial revolution. You are heavily indebted to the Hindu civilisation. And we will Hindus will make sure the debt gets paid back. Everything you have stolen from us, all the distortions you have made to our history will be corrected, and in fact the process has long begun. Not only that, we will make sure that the Vedic religion takes over the planet.


#250

Hi Surya Asura,

[quote]I just thought and think that you need/ed to be punished for your unfair style of debate, at least when you take it that far. You know, to teach you a bit. So you keep it down a bit. But as it seems - I did not even get a minor comment from David’s side - it’s no problem. You can accuse anyone of anything these days. I kinda was thinking about when back in the days, when I expressed an opinion that even was that of David’s himself, I was in the center of the authorities attention and this close to being permanently banned from this board. For reasonable criticism. Now it’s fine to accuse one with horrible things like “you’re proud of your ancestors having killed kids and babies”. Yay!

I think that is probably because you are not exactly an innocent victim in this exchange.[/quote]I actually wouldn’t know why this goes unpunished. Probably mostly because it’s me, but after all, what you attribute me with you attribute anyone with who thinks alike. For example anyone who considers there are reasons to why wrong doers do wrong things, like the Nazis, would be a Nazi. But David once said, in the “Understanding propaganda”-thread, that he wouldn’t even mind an hardcore anti-semitism. There he says “I’m a big fan of seeing what happens”… I would think that his emotional immaturity plays a big part too, he occured to me me quite insecure when it comes to acutally moderate this board, guess there must be “important” people with certificates complain to make him take actions.

However.

In your current post here is what you said:

[quote]You’re shameless, you have no honor whatsoever, you’re a disgrace to your parents, your religion and your country.
[/quote]So…? Any of that not true? I’m perfectly sure your mother and family is not aware of what you are doing here. They don’t read what you write here. They don’t know of your secret identity “Surya Asura”. And if they would, they would be ashamed of you. Or, that’s of course an option too, they are like you, and you are like you are because of them. I, though, think it overall sounds more like you came to your extremists viewpoints by yourself.

I considered to comment all your revisionism of our liaison through the ages, but really, who cares, and the weather is too good to work off that bombast. So let me just repeat that it’s all part of your helplessness and punishment-process, + you must distract the reader from your horrible accusation of me being happy about people getting killed. Do you, I had wondered about that before frequently, write a lot of your posts on drugs…? One writes strange things then, sometimes, been there, done that. :wink:

You are the only one constantly bringing race into this
What I bring in is you being a racist, because you behave like one. To claim one who reasonably accuses someone else of racism is a racist is hilarous rethorics to impress stupid people. I had asked you what I should call your accusations and generalisations, here:

[quote]You even justified the invasion of India by saying your people were poor, so they decided to invade India to even out the wealth in the world.
See, here you speak of “your people” again. What “my people”? Not even Germany was ever in India. What is this? If not racism? Because I live in the west it were my people who raped and looted India over and over again? No, my friend. My people did nothing to India.[/quote]What is it? You prefer to ignore this to fire back in your great interwebs-war. My people did what…? My people gassed Jews, dude. Arabs and the British raped your ancestors. Well, the genetic ones, since you actually are British yourself. Is it still pointless to ask you about this…? How you can be so outraged about what Britain did and still be British yourself? I find that quite hilarious.

But however. :wink:

and then using that as an excuse to make thinly veiled racist comments - such as justifying the invasion, plundering and rape of India because we were hoarding the wealth in the world and were not sharing. Thereby condoning what was done to us. Then repeating in every post how we got invaded by everybody to make us feel bad. It is akin to say to a rape victim, “What did you do to get raped” or “Har har you got raped” It is very obvious you are saying this to hurt Indian people.
Why would I want to hurt Indian people? Before I came here, I never talked to someone from India and all I knew about India was Yoga, some Gita, Swami Narayanananda, Gandhi-the-movie. And adored all of it (and still do). If I judged India and Indians by your and Nietzsches (“Nietzsche”! :lol: ) performance, well, then I would actually think Indians are pathetic, but I’m neither a racist, nor a ethnicicist or nationalist or whatever you label yourself to distinguish yourself from a racist.

I have extensively explained why I ask questions. And yes indeed, if a woman got raped, after all my compassion for what has been done to her, I would ask if she did anything to encourage an offender. Will you in your next post spread the word I justify raping women? I guess. :roll:

However, who brings up India being conquered all the time is you, who of course also started the “pissing contest” in this thread and starts them every day: You. You never get tired of it, this is your latest post. My dad your dad, 24/7, it’s boring, particularly on a Yoga-forum, where everybody adores your dad (not you, though, who’s a disgrace to your dad).

Where and how you started to belittle the West and glorify India I already quoted and linked, here’s where you introduced India-the-eternal-victim:

http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=57763&postcount=87
Your dad was nowhere before the 18th century, lagged behind in technology, science, economy - culture in general. He got to the top through piracy, pillaging and plundering. He learned how to manufacture steel, zinc, textiles, dyes, surgical techniques from my dad. He
Whiny whiny whiny, the proud offspring of a strong warrior culture. :roll: And after your novelish slander of wonderful me, I still dare to think it is quite a valid question to ask a) why India was invaded so much and b) why India could be invaded so much.

Here goes my punishment:

It would also be interesting to note that while I have rejected that such thing as race even exists, you have not. You have maintained race does exist. It is clear you are obsessed with race. I have read views similar to yours before - on Stormfront. I will echo what Neitzsche said it is sad to see neo-nazi like views like you have still exist in Germany today. I really hope your type of views are rare. It was rather disgusting to read your defense of the Nazis and what they did to the Jews, stating the Germans were and poor and victims of thier circumstances. So this makes it justified for what they did to the Jews? Seriously how low can you get. I would not be surprised if you do post on Stormfront Q.
I’m a neo-Nazi. Obsessed with race. I defend the Nazis. I justify the gassing of Jews. Probably I even wish I had been there or could repeat the whole thing? What do you think?

Reason: I said

[quote]Unfortunately, you are too brainwashed by a materialist worldview where we are nothing than biological machines programmed by our environments. This is also another reason why you a backwards person. To not know that you have a soul is actually stupidity. Even children know they have a soul. It is proven in crosscultural studies children innately believe in soul, mind-body dualism and god. Nobody has to tell them.
You evade evade evade. You want to deny deny deny that circumstances lead to wrong doings. If it’s not the circumstances, then what the hell is it? What does make a man a thief or a killer? Such a simple question. What led the Germans to become Nazis? Was Germany a great nation, rich, happy, etc.? Or was it a miserable poor country, humiliated, weakened? Do you think a great and rich Germany would’ve done the same, would’ve followed the same paroles, committed the same crimes? Here, just by the way, you see what punishment can lead to: Just the next crime, and one far more grave and evil.

Spare me your paroles, they don’t affect me. I know all about paroles. It were paroles that brought Hitler to power, many of which are quite similar to the ones you spool off. I’m asking you a simple question: What leads to wrong doings?[/quote]This is disgusting to read. That makes me a neonazi, who posts on stormfront.

You have no shame, bitch. You’re pathetic. Everybody sees it, be glad, your mommy doesn’t. Or your daddy, if mommy is just your cook. And you still have no explanation what leads to wrong doings outside circumstances. Truth is: It’s what I say that leads to wrong doings, and in case of Germany, it is what I say that led Germans to follow the Nazis and kill the Jews. There is nothing disgusting about this, but your pathetic attempt to kick my ass. What led to India being conquered over and over again (hahhahahahahahaha :roll:) I can’t really judge. What’s your explanation? That I’m a racist?

Impressive, please let us know when your books’ being published, must be a real gem.

[quote]Even though using the word “blame” is rethorics here, it’s still somewhat true. Why was India not able to defend itself? Europe for example was. I wouldn’t “blame” the native Americans to be less powerful than the European invaders, but the super-advanced culture of India? It at least needs an explanation, doesn’t it.

Yet, “blaming” is not the right word, it’s something that demands an explanation.

It has already been explained to you that India did in fact defend itself.[/quote]But only after I asked these question, yaknow. Not before. That’s why I asked them. And asking them you called me “blaming” Indians for being invaded.

It has had a strong warrior culture since the beginning. Alexandra the great, who had bulldozed every other nation in his march for world dominion was finally defeated by the mighty Indian army(the largest army in the world in that time) and forced to give up his previously captured territory to India. A minor king at the border was enough to cause his entire army to flee.
Yeah, you already had explained that. India was a strong warrior culture. A minor king defeated “Alexandra” :lol: the great.

The Muslims who had rampaged through Roman countires, Arabian countries, African countries and walked all over mighty Zoroastrian Persia making them all 100% Muslim, faced stiff resistance in India(Even the Muslims record how resilent and combatative the Hindus were) They could barely get anywhere close to South India due to the South Indian Hindu kings. And in the north they were constantly at war with Hindu kingdoms. Then when the British came and took advantage of a declining Mughal empire, Hindus did not stop fighting. The British had to fight many wars with Hindu kingdoms, including the 1857 war of independence. Although Hindus lost the war in the end, they still did not stop fighting. The freedom struggle continued right up until 1947. We fought tooth and nail against a much more stronger enemy miltiarily, and we never stopped fighting. We are still fighting today.

Despite 1000 years of domination by Muslims and Christians, we are still an 80% Hindu country and we been able to preserve a 10,000 year old civilisation and culture - when all other civilisations and cultures have become extinct. Muslims tried very hard to destroy Hindus - they failed. Christians tried very hard to covert Hindus - they failed.
Why? Because Hindus are a very proud people. Why shouldn’t we be? For 5000+ years we have dominated this planet. We were still the richest civilisation on the planet right up until the 18th century. The first peope to have planned urban cities and sanitation, medicine and surgery, universities, hospitals, literature, science, philosophy, republics. Still today it is our Yoga, Ayurveda, Vedanta, Sanskrit, Cuisine that is sought after in the world. Your own Western intellectuals sing our praises. So why shouldn’t we be proud? I consider it my fortune to be the offspring of such a great civilisation. I am very proud.
Wow, you dominated the planet, SA, pretty impressive, no wonder you’re so proud. :wink: Germany, though, you never dominated. And neither any other part of Europe. And Africa. And China. And Russia. And America. Well, actually you were just lucky to have a large piece of land, with a nice climate, rich of resources, and therefore lots of time to contemplate about all sorts of things.

Had we not found this out in our awesome discussion? At least I did. :wink:

You were nowhere prior to the 18th century. You got to the top by looting, pillaging and raping Indians. You knew this yourself this is why you called us the “jewel in the crown” and actually stated that as long as India is under the crown the British empire will stand, but when you lose India the empire fall - and that is exactly what happened. If it was not for the loot you took from us you would not have had an industrial revolution. You are heavily indebted to the Hindu civilisation.
Dude, I’m GERMAN. You know. GERMANY. From. Not British. Germany had been at war with Britain when the British were in India. Britain, at that time, was India’s and Germany’s common enemy. You idiot. Germany never called India the jewel in the crown. Germany never lost India. Germany looted nothing from India. Germany is not at all indebted to the Indian civilisation, on the contrary is India indebted to Germany because we paid and pay I-don’t-know-how-much development aid to your oh-so-proud and oh-so-strong culture, and then I, a GERMAN, have to listen to your outrageous and impertinent accusations when questioning your delusional superiority nonsense.

And again I wonder why you mix that up. What have I to do with Britain. Nothing. It’s geographically closer than India. What else? Why do you continue to hold my culture responsible for what Britain did.

And how again is this not racism? And what again is it? If not racism? I’m white, British people are white, so it’s all the same? Or what? Please explain, bunny, I’m narrow minded and don’t get it. And please don’t forget it.

And we will Hindus will make sure the debt gets paid back. Everything you have stolen from us, all the distortions you have made to our history will be corrected,
“You”? Who? Me? No. And again: What is this? Civilisationism? Maybe continentalism?

Until your explanation, I just go with damn racism, for simplicity’s sake.

and in fact the process has long begun. Not only that, we will make sure that the Vedic religion takes over the planet.
Sounds somewhat like a battle-challenge or so, typical case of :roll:, I’d say.

That aside, let’s not be pathetic ourselves, we should not forget that you are not a representative of Indian religion, but of an aggressive branch of Hindu nationalism that only abuses the great Indian religions and philosophic insights to upvalue themselves. I had explained the principle of “using, what works best” already several times, and insofar I think that chances indeed are good that in the long-termed future (few hundred years, though, at least) Vedic spirituality will become more and more popular. So far the process is not actually impressive. Mostly people like Yoga-Asanas, with only a few being further interested in Yoga and Hinduism. Only a minimal minority calls themselves “Hindus” or so. According to this article, only 0.4% of the citizens of the US are Hindus, and even most of them are immigrants. In Germany, 0.088 of 81 million people are Hindu, the smallest group, with even Jehova’s witnesses being twice as large (0.165 million).

Should there be a process we’re not aware of? You keep indicating something. What? Something going on in secret?


#251

Lot of patriotism seen here!! It’s healthy. However let’s not forget that there is a possibility that our previous lives could have been spent in each other’s countries!!!

Stronger than all our external differences put together, is the bond of prana, which is the same in all. Be with it for a few minutes daily.

Regards, anand


#252

Hi Anand Kulkarni,

Lot of patriotism seen here!!
I’m not a patriot at all.

It’s healthy.
I don’t think so, it only leads to arrogance and upfronting others, becoming unreasonable. Pride stinks.

However let’s not forget that there is a possibility that our previous lives could have been spent in each other’s countries!!!
That is an interesting topic, even though I don’t believe in reincarnation. But it’d be interesting to see what believers make of it. I had brought this up earlier too (in another thread), but noone was interested to discuss this. I had observed an interesting discussion about Karma, wether it might be a case of Karma that Indians were raped so much:

http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/f33/persecution-of-hindus-and-ending-it-7604.html

Was kinda outrageous to mention that aspect of Hindu religion and he who made the comment was punished. :lol:

http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=54112&postcount=18

Stronger than all our external differences put together, is the bond of prana, which is the same in all. Be with it for a few minutes daily.
It does not even need prana. We’re all human beings, that’s enough for those who look for similarities. For those, though, who look for differences, nothing is good enough.

Too bad.


#253

[QUOTE=Quetzalcoatl;59601]Hi Surya Asura,

I actually wouldn’t know why this goes unpunished. Probably mostly because it’s me, but after all, what you attribute me with you attribute anyone with who thinks alike. For example anyone who considers there are reasons to why wrong doers do wrong things, like the Nazis, would be a Nazi. But David once said, in the “Understanding propaganda”-thread, that he wouldn’t even mind an hardcore anti-semitism. There he says “I’m a big fan of seeing what happens”… I would think that his emotional immaturity plays a big part too, he occured to me me quite insecure when it comes to acutally moderate this board, guess there must be “important” people with certificates complain to make him take actions.[/quote]

I think you and Indra Deva are the only ones I would say have blatantly racist and Neo-Nazi like views and you are the only two I have ever accused of having these views. Pandara did say something rather insensitive and offensive by suggesting that Indians might have done something wrong in their karma to have met the fate they did, but rather than this stemming from racial ideology, I attribute it rather to Pandara’s naive and deterministic understanding of karma.

By the way I don’t think you have any right to stand there in judgement of David. You are fortunate he is so open minded and tolerant, otherwise if I was admin and you said such things about me on my forum, I would have removed you. I know how many members here(without mentioning names) have tried to emotionally blackmail him to get me banned. I don’t know what gives you the right to think you can make administrative decisions for him. If you don’t like how the forum is run - go elsewhere.

The fact is clear you participate in these discussions as much as I do, and give as much I do, if not more. Stop crying foul when you get burnt playing with fire.

So…? Any of that not true? I’m perfectly sure your mother and family is not aware of what you are doing here. They don’t read what you write here. They don’t know of your secret identity “Surya Asura”. And if they would, they would be ashamed of you. Or, that’s of course an option too, they are like you, and you are like you are because of them. I, though, think it overall sounds more like you came to your extremists viewpoints by yourself.

Again, if you are going to throw blatant insults at me, then don’t go complaining when you get an insult or two back. Dare I say though my words have been occasionally harsh to you, I have never blatantly insulted you or said you were a disgrace to your parents etc You are showing your upbringing indeed.

For the record my mother is well aware of my views and shares them. In fact you will find hundreds of millions of Hindus share my views. I am not an exception. Have you noticed there about half a dozen Hindu members on this forum who share my views? In fact you will be surprised to know even Caucasian people people share my views. Like I said 90% of my friends are Caucasian and they share many of my views and are aware of my Hindu supremist views.

Do you, I had wondered about that before frequently, write a lot of your posts on drugs…? One writes strange things then, sometimes, been there, done that. :wink:

Another insult. Showing your upbringing again.

What I bring in is you being a racist, because you behave like one. To claim one who reasonably accuses someone else of racism is a racist is hilarous rethorics to impress stupid people. I had asked you what I should call your accusations and generalisations, here:

Anybody can review the last few posts and they will see while me and Neitzsche and have clearly rejected the notion of race and declared there is only one race - the human race - you are the only one maintaining race exists and keep bringing race up, while me and Neitzsche are talking about culture.

Can we stop talking about race please?

What is it? You prefer to ignore this to fire back in your great interwebs-war. My people did what…? My people gassed Jews, dude. Arabs and the British raped your ancestors. Well, the genetic ones, since you actually are British yourself. Is it still pointless to ask you about this…? How you can be so outraged about what Britain did and still be British yourself? I find that quite hilarious.

You are just wrangling pointlessly. Since the start of this pointless pissing contest you started of “my dad vs your dad” you have been speaking on behalf of Western civilisation. I have been speaking on behalf of Indian civilisation.
Now all of a sudden you are claiming only to represent Germany?

I have extensively explained why I ask questions. And yes indeed, if a woman got raped, after all my compassion for what has been done to her, I would ask if she did anything to encourage an offender. Will you in your next post spread the word I justify raping women? I guess. :roll:

To even suggest to a rape victim they were the cause of their rape is a highly insensitive, chauvanistic and ignorant thing to say. Rape is not something that can be justified. A rapist cannot argue in any court of law in the civilised world, “She made me do it”

India is not to blame for what the British did to it. The British are to be blamed for what they did to India, Africa, Australia, America. India, Africa, Australia and America did not sail out to conquer Britain and enslave its people. That is what the British did.

Civilised people do not look for justification for criminals - whether they be the Nazis or British or Spaniards. Civilised people condemn such criminals and have compassion for the victims of their crimes. You seem to be the exact opposite.

However, who brings up India being conquered all the time is you, who of course also started the “pissing contest” in this thread and starts them every day: You. You never get tired of it, this is your latest post. My dad your dad, 24/7, it’s boring, particularly on a Yoga-forum, where everybody adores your dad (not you, though, who’s a disgrace to your dad).

Anybody can review this thread and see this “your dad vs my dad” pissing contest was started by you.

Whiny whiny whiny, the proud offspring of a strong warrior culture. :roll: And after your novelish slander of wonderful me, I still dare to think it is quite a valid question to ask a) why India was invaded so much and b) why India could be invaded so much.

Your questions have already been answered several times, but you continue to post them, which brings your intentions into question. I will answer very briefly again, and if you continue to repeat these questions from hereon, it will become obvious you are a troll.

India was not invaded anymore than any country, say Britain or France. In 10,000 years of Indian history, it is only in the last 1000 years that India became subject to invasions when the Muslim empire expanded. In that time not only India, but Europe, Africa, Arabia and Persia were also invaded. Then when the Mughal empire was in decline due to wars with Hindu kingdoms, the British came and took advantage of the internal wars - pit one side against the other, provided weapons and funding to one side - and then stabbed them in the back and annexed lands through hook and crook.

Prior to 1000 years ago, invasions in India were not different to anywhere in the world, kingdoms battling with one another, growing in size or decreasing in size. The Persians captured some territory in Afghanistan, but lost it, then then lost some of their territory to the Indians. The Greeks captured some territory in Afghanistan from the Persians, then lost it to the Indians. Empires rise and fell in India of various sizes. One myth we can put to rest is that Indians were weak and pacifist. The history of war in India between states is as great as in Europe. The Kshatriyas - warriors - were considered the second highest class of society in importance after the sages. Hindu literature is full of warrior lore.

Hindu civilisation is primarily a civilisation of sages and warriors. This it shares with Celtic culture too - in fact Celtic culture comes from Hinduism according to Peter Ellis, one of the leading experts in Celtic studies in the UK.
This is why I am saying don’t mess with Hindus - we are a civilisation of intellectuals warriors. The Hindu warrior spirit has been reviving in India for several decades now. We will no longer take any BS. Mess with us and you will pay a price - we have economic, intellectual, political and military clout today and it is growing exponentially.

Play nice and we will play nice with you.

You have no shame, bitch. You’re pathetic. Everybody sees it, be glad, your mommy doesn’t. Or your daddy, if mommy is just your cook. And you still have no explanation what leads to wrong doings outside circumstances. Truth is: It’s what I say that leads to wrong doings, and in case of Germany, it is what I say that led Germans to follow the Nazis and kill the Jews. There is nothing disgusting about this, but your pathetic attempt to kick my ass. What led to India being conquered over and over again (hahhahahahahahaha :roll:) I can’t really judge. What’s your explanation? That I’m a racist?

I have emboldened your insults to let the reader know how innocent you are in this exchange :wink:

The actions of the Nazis cannot be justified. I am sorry the very fact that you are justifying the actions of Nazis by portraying them as victims of circumstances like poverty is simply unacceptable. You are saying this because you were justifying the actions of the British and what caused them to rape and loot India blaming it on their poverty and even suggested India was hoarding the wealth and not sharing, hence why you guys decided to even it out. It is obvious then you are implicitly justifying the slaughter and rape that went on.

The truth is neither Britain or Germany were that poor to justify the murderous invasions and holocausts. In fact economic statistics show they were relatively rich. What motivated them was racist ideologies where Indians were seen as heathen pagans practicing a demonic religion and Jews were seen as dangerous sub-human race that needed to be purged.

You cannot blame everything on circumstances you joker.

Wow, you dominated the planet, SA, pretty impressive, no wonder you’re so proud. :wink: Germany, though, you never dominated. And neither any other part of Europe. And Africa. And China. And Russia. And America. Well, actually you were just lucky to have a large piece of land, with a nice climate, rich of resources, and therefore lots of time to contemplate about all sorts of things.

America and Africa also had large land rich in climate and resources. It is not as simple as enviromental circumstances. India developed a superior culture because of its foundational ethos.

Dude, I’m GERMAN. You know. GERMANY.

And again I wonder why you mix that up. What have I to do with Britain. Nothing. It’s geographically closer than India. What else? Why do you continue to hold my culture responsible for what Britain did.

You took up the cause of the West in this thread, not Germany alone. Your first post of “my dad vs your dad” which started this pointless pissing contest is where you mention all Western discoveries as being of “your dad” You also said in many threads how the entire world is going to be taken over by Western culture. You did not say it will be taken over by German culture. You clearly are speaking on behalf of the West - Anglo-saxon civilisation.

That aside, let’s not be pathetic ourselves, we should not forget that you are not a representative of Indian religion, but of an aggressive branch of Hindu nationalism that only abuses the great Indian religions and philosophic insights to upvalue themselves.

You have no idea how common my views are. I suggest you go to the Hindu dharma foundation forum and other Hindu forums online. There are hundreds of millions of us and hundreds of top Hindu scholars who share all my views.

I had explained the principle of “using, what works best” already several times, and insofar I think that chances indeed are good that in the long-termed future (few hundred years, though, at least) Vedic spirituality will become more and more popular. So far the process is not actually impressive. Mostly people like Yoga-Asanas, with only a few being further interested in Yoga and Hinduism. Only a minimal minority calls themselves “Hindus” or so. According to this article, only 0.4% of the citizens of the US are Hindus, and even most of them are immigrants. In Germany, 0.088 of 81 million people are Hindu, the smallest group, with even Jehova’s witnesses being twice as large (0.165 million).

Should there be a process we’re not aware of? You keep indicating something. What? Something going on in secret?

There is no secret. Hinduism is spreading all over the world, especially in America - but it is not called Hinduism. It is called Yoga, meditation self-help, new-age movement. But any idiot knows(in fact there was a documentary by Christian idiots on how Hinduism is covertly spreading through America through the new age) that this is nothing more than Hinduism. Pick up any new-age book and you will find Hinduism all over.

Even top academics and scholars are starting to note how the West is increasingly becoming Hindu.


#254

Satguru or Sadguru (Sanskrit: सदगुरू) means true guru. The term distinguishes itself from other forms of gurus, such as musical instructors,instructors, scriptural teachers, parents, and so on. The satguru is a title given specifically only to an enlightened rishi/sant whose life’s purpose is to guide initiated shishya along the spiritual path, the summation of which is the realization of the Self through realization of the God


#255

[QUOTE=Quetzalcoatl;59608]Hi Anand Kulkarni,

I’m not a patriot at all.

I don’t think so, it only leads to arrogance and upfronting others, becoming unreasonable. Pride stinks.

That is an interesting topic, even though I don’t believe in reincarnation. But it’d be interesting to see what believers make of it. I had brought this up earlier too (in another thread), but noone was interested to discuss this. I had observed an interesting discussion about Karma, wether it might be a case of Karma that Indians were raped so much:

http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/f33/persecution-of-hindus-and-ending-it-7604.html

Was kinda outrageous to mention that aspect of Hindu religion and he who made the comment was punished. :lol:

http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=54112&postcount=18

It does not even need prana. We’re all human beings, that’s enough for those who look for similarities. For those, though, who look for differences, nothing is good enough.

Too bad.[/QUOTE]

Dear Friend:

Really no harm in being a patriot. Never mind if you are not. It (patriotism) is a step in the process of seeing oneness in ever-expanding spheres. From Individual to Family to Community to State to Nation and so on, depending upon the state of one’s spiritual evolution.

No false pride or arrogance would be involved in such cases.

On a Yoga platform, Prana is most certainly the common factor which will be appreciated and self-convincingly experienced by all. Yogis want to experience this commonness of Prana in the sentient as well as the insentient.

Let us begin small, take small steps at least?

Regards, Anand


#256

Lot’s of reported posts are coming in from this thread from all sides. I’m going to let the conversation continue as is.


#257

Hi Surya Asura,

man, all the rethorics again. :lol: So hilarious.

[quote]I actually wouldn’t know why this goes unpunished. Probably mostly because it’s me, but after all, what you attribute me with you attribute anyone with who thinks alike. For example anyone who considers there are reasons to why wrong doers do wrong things, like the Nazis, would be a Nazi.
I think you and Indra Deva are the only ones I would say have blatantly racist and Neo-Nazi like views and you are the only two I have ever accused of having these views.[/quote]You misunderstood me, sweety. When you say I am a neonazi because I think that things lead to wrong doings, then you call anyone who thinks so a neonazi. So if there are such people among the 40,000 unique visitors this forum has per month, they will feel labeled as neonazis as well. Get it? Like when I say “whoever thinks quantum teleportation is about transporting matter is stupid”. In general.

And since my views are not even remotely racist or that of a neonazi, but common sense that you find in any book, on any website and in every reasonable law, anybody with these regular view is labelled a neonazi and a racist by you. In general, dude.

And that is why I think that your shameless slander has to be punished and forbidden. Because you’re not only insulting me personally, but a lot of people, and you’re not only insulting all those people, but create hate for them. So if one of your stupid followers would believe your words and then come across someone who for example explains how the Nazis came to power, they (the stupid followers) would think these (the reasonable explainers) would be distgusting neonazis posting on stormfront.

Get it?

Pandara did say something rather insensitive and offensive by suggesting that Indians might have done something wrong in their karma to have met the fate they did, but rather than this stemming from racial ideology, I attribute it rather to Pandara’s naive and deterministic understanding of karma.
Pandara? Yeah, he was punished by you too, I had linked the post. And with saying

Had you said something similar in a professional work place in Europe regarding the Jews by intimating it was their karma to face the holocausts, you would have received more than just a “negative” response.
you did imply racism and this note:

I find it ironic you would say such an insensitive thing, being a gay person yourself, and we all know how much prejudice and discrimination gay people face and the sensitivity of discussing homosexuality with a gay person.
I found quite patronizing too.

Additionally had Pandara clearly stated that it

was not my intention and I nowehere have mentioned that I blame anybody for anything.
He wanted to bring this topic up, one similar to the reincarnation-thing. Sure the one to whom happens something in life X did not necessarily do anything Karma-wise in life X. But according to Karme-theory in their past lifes:

Karma is a concept in Hinduism which explains causality through a system where beneficial effects are derived from past beneficial actions and harmful effects from past harmful actions, creating a system of actions and reactions throughout a soul’s reincarnated lives[1] forming a cycle of rebirth. The causality is said to be applicable not only to the material world but also to our thoughts, words, actions and actions that others do under our instructions.[2]
That’s Karma: Harmful effects are caused by harmful actions from the past

By the way I don’t think you have any right to stand there in judgement of David.
Of course I have, it’s called freedom of speech, dude. This forum is D.'s responsibility and I was banned for things far from claiming someone would be proud of his ancestors killing children and such. Far from. Far. Lightyears away. Not even remotely comparable. Stuff, that David had even agreed with. The shit you pull off? Hardly worth a one-liner. Sure I have the right to judge that.

You are fortunate he is so open minded and tolerant, otherwise if I was admin and you said such things about me on my forum, I would have removed you.
I was never good at kissing ass and I don’t intend to learn from you now. If I’m banned: I don’t care, this forum is not the center of my life.

What, however, David does not understand is the difference between a) being open minded and tolerating heated debates and b) granting a propagandist like yourself a platform to spread their sick shit. I had already noted that in the thread “Understanding propaganda”, where he compared your propaganda and even anti-semitism with some funny cartoon. It’s cuz he not only is emotionally immature, but as well lacks of education generally. He thinks this would be just a thing between you and me, and you understand that he thinks so and enforce it: Q can’t stand the heat in the kitchen, Q is offended, Q is crying, etc. No dude. Germans are called Nazis all the time, we don’t care.

I know how many members here(without mentioning names) have tried to emotionally blackmail him to get me banned. I don’t know what gives you the right to think you can make administrative decisions for him. If you don’t like how the forum is run - go elsewhere.
For now I find this very interesting, you’re really on a high currently, so I will continue for a while. But not for long, I simply have better things to do.

The fact is clear you participate in these discussions as much as I do, and give as much I do, if not more. Stop crying foul when you get burnt playing with fire.
The fact is clear that you’re an idiot and while this might impress some idiots even more stupid than you are, you’ve done yourself a disfavor with this nonsense and surely lost quite some reputation among smart people. Smart you would be to take that accusation back instead of providing me with more and more keywords to further explain how and why you’re an idiot.

[quote]So…? Any of that not true? I’m perfectly sure your mother and family is not aware of what you are doing here. They don’t read what you write here. They don’t know of your secret identity “Surya Asura”. And if they would, they would be ashamed of you. Or, that’s of course an option too, they are like you, and you are like you are because of them. I, though, think it overall sounds more like you came to your extremists viewpoints by yourself.

Again, if you are going to throw blatant insults at me, then don’t go complaining when you get an insult or two back. [/quote]Again, read the above about why I think you’re taking it too far. Of course do I know that you simply want to insult me and discredit me.

Dare I say though my words have been occasionally harsh to you, I have never blatantly insulted you or said you were a disgrace to your parents etc You are showing your upbringing indeed.
See, that’s stuff only about me and I couldn’t care less, it’s blablabla to me. My family, btw, knows I write here. I, though, doubt my parents read this. But they could, if they wanted.

What about your parents? Do they know that you spend half your time on this forum? Do they, Hindus themselves, feel well represented by you?

For the record my mother is well aware of my views and shares them.
I’m sorry to hear that, but it explains + excuses a lot.

In fact you will find hundreds of millions of Hindus share my views. I am not an exception.
The number makes no difference, they’d all be a disgrace to their religion and nation. Just like any German in Nazigermany, who thought that Jews or people from other races were subhuman, were a disgrace to their nation. Don’t you agree? Do you think something is right when enough people believe in it?

Have you noticed there about half a dozen Hindu members on this forum who share my views?
No, I haven’t. Nietzsche, who is closest to your standpoint, for example does not share your views on science and all that. You punish him for that frequently. Who else is there to share your views? Give me their names please.

In fact you will be surprised to know even Caucasian people people share my views. Like I said 90% of my friends are Caucasian and they share many of my views and are aware of my Hindu supremist views.
Dude, I share “many of your views” too. It’s actually kinda funny, you’re even trying to deny me sharing many of your views, for example condeming that India was conquered and all the suffering. I share that view - you depict it as if it’d make me happy.

The views I do not share I made obvious, for example western people being barbarians who are like animals and backwards and incapable of doing science. Nietzsche disagrees with that strongly too and agreed with my point of view recently. He does not even oppose me in his recent posts, he opposes the corner you push me into. Kids, gotta forgive em. :smiley:

[quote]Do you, I had wondered about that before frequently, write a lot of your posts on drugs…? One writes strange things then, sometimes, been there, done that. :wink:

Another insult. Showing your upbringing again.[/quote]Whaaaaaaa!!! If u can’t stand the heat stay out of the kitchen! :lol:

On our telly there once was a game show that worked like this: 10 people in a half-circle were asked questions, some sort of trivial pursuit. If they gave the correct answer, they could pick the candidate who had to answer the next question. One time there was a guy who, when he was picked, always picked the one who picked him back. That was not very nice, but that way he was barley picked and in the end won the game.

Point? I say you’re a racist, you say I’m a racist. I say you’re a disgrace to your parents, you fire the same thing back to me. Rethorics rethorics rethorics. :lol: And on that level, it’s really fine. Harmless, you know. Heated debate. Actually boring, short-witted, simple-minded, unimaginatively.

[quote]What I bring in is you being a racist, because you behave like one. To claim one who reasonably accuses someone else of racism is a racist is hilarous rethorics to impress stupid people. I had asked you what I should call your accusations and generalisations, here:

Anybody can review the last few posts and they will see while me and Neitzsche and have clearly rejected the notion of race and declared there is only one race - the human race - you are the only one maintaining race exists and keep bringing race up, while me and Neitzsche are talking about culture.[/quote]Awww, aren’t you pc?! :roll: There are races and it’s no problem to note that. The problem begins when one says stuff like “white man this” or “white washed that”. You stopped using these terms, though, after I pointed out their racist implications (at least I didn’t read that ever again afterwards). Or “western people are like animals” or “Indian culture was more advanced than others because that’s the way it is”. So the problem begins when it is being implied that with race more than just phenotypical characteristics are to be associated.

For example - I dunno how often I mentioned it without getting a comment from you - do you live in Britain. You are British. Your culture is British culture. Nietzsche is an American, his culture is American culture. If you disagree, then on what base? How are you not British, how is Nietzsche not American? Because you guys are not like Americans and British? But how are they how you are not? What makes them and you different? I had asked you several times what’d be wrong about for example my point of view. Religion? I’m closer to Hinduism than I am to Christianity. For example. Supremacist thinking? I am neither proud of my culture, nor of my nation, nor of any achievements of my people; you guys are for more supremacist. I even do more Yoga than you and Nietzsche combined. What’s wrong with me? You know what you said about that? I would take glee of my ancestors attempted genocide. That’s the difference. I’d think it’s great they killed many innocent people. I know I shouldn’t, but really it makes me :lol:.

Can we stop talking about race please?
You can talk about whatever you want, I have no problem to talk about race. Why would I? Why does it make you uncomfortable? Very simple: Because you are at least very close to being a racist. I still think that you have to be labelled as a racist, even if you speak of “cultural supremacist” and such. You still need to … border yourself from racism, as that border so far is only a verbal claim of yourself. You behave like a racist, so just saying “I’m not” isn’t good enough.

[quote]What is it? You prefer to ignore this to fire back in your great interwebs-war. My people did what…? My people gassed Jews, dude. Arabs and the British raped your ancestors. Well, the genetic ones, since you actually are British yourself. Is it still pointless to ask you about this…? How you can be so outraged about what Britain did and still be British yourself? I find that quite hilarious.

You are just wrangling pointlessly. Since the start of this pointless pissing contest you started of “my dad vs your dad” you have been speaking on behalf of Western civilisation. I have been speaking on behalf of Indian civilisation.
Now all of a sudden you are claiming only to represent Germany?[/quote]Yep. The “pissing contest” you, my friend, started, was about science. Western science, Indian science. Western science is largely the result of cooperation. I though admit that I simply picked up your simple-minded world view and spoofed it with the “my dad your dad”-parody. Now, if you want to depict it that way, I’d like to suddenly change my clownish viewpoint to what’s the case:

I am German. From Germany. And Germans never were to India, never raped India, never looted India, are not responsible for any dead Indian. Do you agree or is this not the case? And since you’re not only speaking of “the West” and “you” in this thread in our conversation, but in every conversation with anybody all the time: Why do you do that? Why don’t you say “the British”? The West, that is for example Denmark too. What did Denmark to India? Or Sweden. France. Belgium. Netherlands. Italy. Greece. Iceland! What have these countries done wrong?

[quote]I have extensively explained why I ask questions. And yes indeed, if a woman got raped, after all my compassion for what has been done to her, I would ask if she did anything to encourage an offender. Will you in your next post spread the word I justify raping women? I guess. :roll:

To even suggest to a rape victim they were the cause of their rape is a highly insensitive, chauvanistic and ignorant thing to say. Rape is not something that can be justified. A rapist cannot argue in any court of law in the civilised world, “She made me do it”[/quote]See, there you do it, I “guessed” right, I haz pzykik powerz!!11!!111!

Seriously. I justify nothing, I look for explanations. Sorry if that’s “insensitive”, but I’m not hear to console the struggling. And in any court that would trial a rape-case, this question would be asked too (“law is reason free from passion”) and any rapist can indeed argue in any court of law in the civilised world “she made me do it” and any such court would be obligated to investigate such arguments.

Just btw do I know why you bring this up: To influence your target audience, the stupid people, emotionally. You want to push me into a corner where I think that raping innocent girls can be justified. You want to depict me as such a person. Because you’re helpless.

Funny:

In the discussion in context of Shiva Reah you said that women and girls who dress sexy could not be respected. Couple of quotes:

Western women are not often respected in India. Indian men peer at them like sex objects and consider them easy, but this is partly because Western women dress in ways that sexualise them. For this reason Western travel advisories advise Western women to dress up in India.

Here in the UK, women parading themselves as sexual objects is a highly common activity. Every friday and saturday night in the city centre, I see women dressed in skimpy clothes accentuating their legs and breasts, walking about getting peered at by men and groups of men, and sexual advances made on them. It is not uncommon to see groups of men walk by a group of women and the men pinch their arse. This culture is internalized in the West.

I have recently become highly alienated by the discussions I use to have with my friends where we would report on every women that walked by, objectifying them and making lewd sexual gestures. Now when I go out and such discussions take place, I roll my eyes and find it really uncomfortable. This is because I now realise that we are doing is objectifying another soul. It is a form of exploitation and it makes me sick now.

These Western women are indeed objectifying themselves, but we are no better by encouraging it and acting lustfully.

Trinley, you are absolving the women of all responsibility in how she dresses. Yes, in some cultures breasts are not considered sexual such as tribal cultures, but here the intention is different. In Western culture, when a woman dresses a certain way with very short skirts to show their legs, backless tops and tight tops that accentuate their breasts, the intention is sexual. I know fully well myself how women in the UK prepare for friday and saturday nights to impress the men. Then when the men reciprocate, it satisfies them. Of course, they also attract the attention of unwanted men as well.

Yes, sure women will get sexualised by men irrespective of what they are wearing, but it is common sense that if a woman is already sexualised that she will get more attention. If you walk about fully clothed, it is often a message to men that you are not looking for sexual attention. In fact you might be perceived as a challenge.

Again, perception of Western women in India is very sexualised. Indian men think they are easy. It is unfortunate attitude really, but where there is smoke there is fire. Why do you think Western women are thought to be sex objects? Just taken a look at the nightlife culture in the West and it becomes very clear.

All I am pointing out is something which is obvious, if women dress in such a way as to objectivity themselves sexually, then these women are obviously responsible for presenting these images to men.
Interesting, huh? And fyi: I lured you into this, you rethorics amateur. :stuck_out_tongue:

India is not to blame for what the British did to it. The British are to be blamed for what they did to India, Africa, Australia, America. India, Africa, Australia and America did not sail out to conquer Britain and enslave its people. That is what the British did.
See, isn’t it great of me to teach you about who did what? Now you say “the British”. Very good. In the thread on Shiva Rea I found this post, quite typical of you:

http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/f16/yoga-row-between-indian-yogis-and-western-yogis-7601-post54014.html#post54014
I think this is what I have realised about Westerners over time, they do not respect the unity of anything. There is a tendency within the Western mind to appropriate anything, and mix and match it with other things(so-called free-form) without any sense of order. And it is justified by attitudes that, “We can, so we will”

But to the rest of the world Westerners look like people who struggle with notions like respect. Like for example respecting the cultural forms of another culture. The West think it is their right to appropriate anything and everything from other cultures - take whatever they want and do whatever they want with it. These other cultures, out of their good will teach these Western people their cultural forms, but seldom do they realise that the Western student is not going to appreciate its purity and will do whatever they want with it.

Unfortunately, due this to immature attitude of Western people, other cultures are starting to move towards protecting their cultural forms, such as by demanding government regulation and patenting them. I welcome these actions, in light of how arrogant Western attitudes are. I am really starting to see why the rest of the world hates the West as I converse more and more with Western people vis-a-vis other cultures.
Typically you. Typically. And it looks racist and it sounds racist and it smells racist and it tastes racist and it feels racist and if it’s still not racist, well: Hm… “The West”. “Western people”. “Western mind”. How do you call it again? Cultural supremacism?

However; just wanted to quote this as such a perfectly typical example.

Now why did the British do that and other people did it not? Is there no reason? Let me point it out over and over again, we’re not talking about justifying wrong doings. We’re trying to explain and understand them, so we know how exactly we have to blame wrong doers, which is so ultra-important to you.

Civilised people do not look for justification for criminals - whether they be the Nazis or British or Spaniards. Civilised people condemn such criminals and have compassion for the victims of their crimes. You seem to be the exact opposite.
Bunny, you stubbornly insist that I would want to

jus?ti?fy
/'d??st??fa?/ Show Spelled [juhs-tuh-fahy] Show IPA verb, -fied, -fy?ing.
?verb (used with object)
1.
to show (an act, claim, statement, etc.) to be just or right: The end does not always justify the means.
2.
to defend or uphold as warranted or well-grounded: Don’t try to justify his rudeness.
3.
Theology . to declare innocent or guiltless; absolve; acquit.
something. I have pointed out over and over again that it’s not about making a crime just. Why would you have to stubbornly insist I would want to do that? Why? Why can’t you just discuss what I am actually saying and even pointing out over and over again? Grown ups discussing stuff: Why is that impossible? Explain. Why do you have to play these filthy rethoric games? Why? Why do you have to be so dishonest and undignified?

The only explanation is that you fear the outcome of such a discussion. I wouldn’t even know which outcome that would be, I’m simply asking a highly relevant and most obvious question. And bam, I’m a disgusting neonazi, proud of genocide who thinks that raping women is just.

Hilarious, isn’t it.

Sweety. Of course will civilised people look for explanations. Beyond doubt will they. Among other reasons particularly to - as I had pointed out crystal clearly - learn from mistakes. For example will they not just see Nazis gassing Jews and simply condemn the evil Nazis and that’s it. They will research how this could happen in depth and detail. It is on the contrary a primitive viewpoint not to do that. Very very primitive. Very very narrow minded. A redundant standpoint and mostly that of those who only desire to blame and condemn and anathematize people. If you take Nazi Germany for example, the history as - as far as I’ve read it - adequately explained on Wikipedia starts like this:

Nazi Germany arose in the wake of the national shame, embarrassment, anger and resentment resulting from the Treaty of Versailles (1919),[11] that dictated, to the vanquished Germans, responsibility for:

  • Germany’s acceptance of and admission to sole responsibility for causing World War I[12]
  • The permanent loss of various territories and the demilitarization of other German territory[13]
  • The payment by Germany of heavy reparations, in money and in kind, such payments being justified in the Allied view by the War Guilt clause[14]
  • Unilateral German disarmament and severe military restrictions[15]
    Exactly what I said. German kids learn this at school. Any documentary on Nazigermany depicts this. What you bitch claim to be the “disgusting” viewpoint of a “neonazi” who “posts on stormfront.org”. Again: This is why you have to be punished, because in the eyes of your target audience, the stupid people (and you nationlists brothers), you depict people with this regular viewpoint as disgusting and neonazis. This can’t be happening, and David the naive and immature, fails to understand it.

I gotta go now. :wink:


#258

Wait a second! This thread should be on Spirit’s path section…

Well, you guys did it again. Well done! Every thread like this ends up being in religion forum. It occurs to me that religion forum has become a junkyard, where people scrap stuffs and collect spare parts from virtual trash bins Q.Q


#259

David totally suddenly had an enlightenment and thought all this racist stuff has to be removed from the public eye. :lol: Good job David, guess you’re not naive and immature and lack education after all. :wink:


#260

[QUOTE=Quetzalcoatl;59839]David totally suddenly had an enlightenment and thought all this racist stuff has to be removed from the public eye. Good job David, guess you’re not naive and immature and lack education after all. [/QUOTE]
The public can still see it.