What is Enlightenment?


#261

The public can still see it.

:smiley:

Good move David

High Wolf, remember I tried to bring this discussion into the religion forum when I started the thread “Clash of civilisations” on your request. I also posted a link to it saying, “Please continue discussion here” and even responded to one of Q’s posts made here there. However Q continued replying in this thread. So I replied here too.


#262

[QUOTE=Quetzalcoatl;59839]David totally suddenly had an enlightenment and thought all this racist stuff has to be removed from the public eye. :lol: [B]Good job David, guess you’re not naive and immature and lack education after all.[/B] ;)[/QUOTE]

Awww, how cute. Mr. Arian Hitler is accusing an open minded, tolerant, and unbiased person of being immature, naive, and uneducated.

The fact that David didn’t give you a ban for spewing crap about him actually proves the opposite, Mr. Hitler.

Nice grammar by the way. I guess you failed your lesson in parallelism.


#263

Don’t worry David, it’s all good and we do understand each other, don’t we. :wink:


#264

Hi Nietzsche,

Awww, how cute. Mr. Arian Hitler is accusing an open minded, tolerant, and unbiased person of being immature, naive, and uneducated.

The fact that David didn’t give you a ban for spewing crap about him actually proves the opposite, Mr. Hitler.

Nice grammar by the way. I guess you failed your lesson in parallelism.
you’re trying too hard, youngling. Learn to keep your cool. :wink:


#265

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;59876]Awww, how cute. Mr. Arian Hitler is accusing an open minded, tolerant, and unbiased person of being immature, naive, and uneducated.

The fact that David didn’t give you a ban for spewing crap about him actually proves the opposite, Mr. Hitler.

[/QUOTE]

This really goes to show the difference between somebody with a Deva mind and an Asura soul.

I will respond to Q’s “points” later.


#266

Greetings,

man, all the rethorics again. :lol: So hilarious.

Are you jealous that you lack the imagination to construct no other response?

And since my views are not even remotely racist or that of a neonazi, but common sense that you find in any book, on any website and in every reasonable law, anybody with these regular view is labelled a neonazi and a racist by you. In general, dude.

They are Western supremacist. If you don’t think stereotypical and statements like “The world will become like the West” and “unless your mom is a cook” are not bigoted, then I don’t know what to tell you.

And that is why I think that your shameless slander has to be punished and forbidden. Because you’re not only insulting me personally, but a lot of people, and you’re not only insulting all those people, but create hate for them. So if one of your stupid followers would believe your words and then come across someone who for example explains how the Nazis came to power, they (the stupid followers) would think these (the reasonable explainers) would be distgusting neonazis posting on stormfront.

Actually, you are the one calling Surya a “damn racist” and “bitch.”

And that is why I think ignorant Westerners like you are the source of all suffering in the modern era. Actually, THEY ARE.

Colonialism.
Imperialism.
Genocides.
Racism.
Western/White supremacy.
Slavery.
Missionary Activity.

Get it?

Pandara? Yeah, he was punished by you too, I had linked the post. And with saying

you did imply racism and this note:

I found quite patronizing too.

Additionally had Pandara clearly stated that it

He wanted to bring this topic up, one similar to the reincarnation-thing. Sure the one to whom happens something in life X did not necessarily do anything Karma-wise in life X. But according to Karme-theory in their past lifes:

That’s Karma: Harmful effects are caused by harmful actions from the past

Pandara made a naive comment, a comment that would have greatly insulted any Indian/Hindu. But he meant no harm and was actually asking a sincere question about Karma.

However, you deserve to be banned for insulting David. Insulting you or me is one thing, but insulting the guy who can ban you with a click and who has been the most tolerant and kind person in this forum is going too far.

Q, we have been over this multiple times. You know nothing of Indian history and jump to rash conclusions about our religion, country, and people often. This much was apparent in the “Dancing is banned in India” “argument.”

Of course I have, it’s called freedom of speech, dude. This forum is D.'s responsibility and I was banned for things far from claiming someone would be proud of his ancestors killing children and such. Far from. Far. Lightyears away. Not even remotely comparable. Stuff, that David had even agreed with. [B]The shit you pull off?[/B] Hardly worth a one-liner. Sure I have the right to judge that.

QQ more.

I was never good at kissing ass and I don’t intend to learn from you now. If I’m banned: I don’t care, this forum is not the center of my life.

Good.

What, however, David does not understand is the difference between a) being open minded and tolerating heated debates and b) granting a [B]propagandist like yourself a platform to spread their sick shit.[/B] I had already noted that in the thread “Understanding propaganda”, where he compared your propaganda and [B]even anti-semitism[/B] with some funny cartoon. [B]It’s cuz he not only is emotionally immature, but as well lacks of education generally[/B]. He thinks this would be just a thing between you and me, and you understand that he thinks so and enforce it: [B]Q can’t stand the heat in the kitchen, Q is offended, Q is crying, etc. No dude. Germans are called Nazis all the time, we don’t care.[/B]

So, in other words, you are denying the hundreds of millions of deaths your civilization has caused. Are you denying the numerous wrongdoings committed by your civilization, wrongdoings that Westerners still refuse to repent for by still clinging onto notions of racial, intellectual, religious, and societal supremacy?

And you wonder why Islamic fundamentalism exists? Its not necessarily because its in their religion, but because of the way the West barged into the M.E and created Isreal, took over M.E nations for their oil, refused to respect Islamic traditions and Middle Eastern sovereignty.

All this was, of course, in the name of “freedom” and “women’s rights.”

All these assumed prerogatives of spreading “democracy” are nothing more Western chauvinism and arrogance in disguise.

This similar to the same garbage that you have repeatedly spewed onto this forum by unjustly denouncing Indian culture, scorning Indian history, asserting the superiority of Western ways, saying that the whole world will become like the West, and so on.

And you wonder why Germans get called Nazis and why terms such as “white-washed” exist?

The fact is clear that you’re an idiot and while this might impress some idiots even more stupid than you are, you’ve done yourself a disfavor with this nonsense and surely lost quite some reputation among smart people. Smart you would be to take that accusation back instead of providing me with more and more keywords to further explain how and why you’re an idiot.

QQ more.

The number makes no difference, they’d all be a disgrace to their religion and nation. Just like any German in Nazigermany, who thought that Jews or people from other races were subhuman, were a disgrace to their nation. Don’t you agree? Do you think something is right when enough people believe in it?

Just like the way you think all other cultures are inferior to Western “culture” and think racial/cultural stereotypes are a reflection of the truth?

At least I have the decency to not think the same of all Germans on the basis of you solely.

No, I haven’t. Nietzsche, who is closest to your standpoint, for example does not share your views on science and all that. You punish him for that frequently. Who else is there to share your views? Give me their names please.

That is a relatively minor point compared to your Western supremacist biases. I am not supporting you in any way. I never have and I never will support a culturally ignorant silly goose. “Agreement” is not the same as “support.”

Dude, I share “many of your views” too. It’s actually kinda funny, you’re even trying to deny me sharing many of your views, for example condeming that India was conquered and all the suffering. I share that view - you depict it as if it’d make me happy.

Well, you have made light fun of the deaths of tens of millions of Indians in a previous post.

AND you accused India of having banned dancing.

AND you accused India of having child labor, repressive societal laws, and so on.

Quite frankly, you don’t share any of our views.

The views I do not share I made obvious, for example western people being barbarians who are like animals and backwards and incapable of doing science. Nietzsche disagrees with that strongly too and agreed with my point of view recently. He does not even oppose me in his recent posts, he opposes the corner you push me into. Kids, gotta forgive em. :smiley:

Westerners like you ARE barbarians. Not physically, intellectually, racially, etc but culturally.

The way naive people like you denounce other cultures and nations without accounting for their history or the way the “superior” Western world screwed them over is disgusting.

Now you’re just making up B.S. I have never disagreed with SD in this matter to the extent you claim.

And there is no corner. If there is any corner, is it merely the product of your imposing your negative emotions onto external reality. You’re just trying to play dirty by gaining sympathy.

Point? I say you’re a racist, you say I’m a racist. I say you’re a disgrace to your parents, you fire the same thing back to me. Rethorics rethorics rethorics. :lol: And on that level, it’s really fine. Harmless, you know. Heated debate. Actually boring, short-witted, simple-minded, unimaginatively.

Nah, just ignorance. Neither of you know the least bit about the other’s parents, friends, and life in general.

Awww, aren’t you pc?! :roll: There are races and it’s no problem to note that. The problem begins when one says stuff like “white man this” or “white washed that”. You stopped using these terms, though, after I pointed out their racist implications (at least I didn’t read that ever again afterwards). Or “western people are like animals” or “Indian culture was more advanced than others because that’s the way it is”. So the problem begins when it is being implied that with race more than just phenotypical characteristics are to be associated.

And you wonder why Germans get called Nazis?

The fact is that humans are one species and show little to no genetic variation. This is scientific consensus. That you are refusing to acknowledge this is indicative of your feelings of racial superiority.

“White men” are exactly what Europeans/Americans called themselves for over 4 centuries. It was synonymous with the word Westerner. The term itself reflects white racial superiority.

Thus, the reason SD and I use it is to deride Western notions of superiority in everything.

For example - I dunno how often I mentioned it without getting a comment from you - do you live in Britain. You are British. Your culture is British culture. Nietzsche is an American, his culture is American culture. If you disagree, then on what base? How are you not British, how is Nietzsche not American? Because you guys are not like Americans and British? But how are they how you are not? What makes them and you different? I had asked you several times what’d be wrong about for example my point of view. Religion? I’m closer to Hinduism than I am to Christianity. For example. Supremacist thinking? I am neither proud of my culture, nor of my nation, nor of any achievements of my people; you guys are for more supremacist. I even do more Yoga than you and Nietzsche combined. What’s wrong with me? You know what you said about that? I would take glee of my ancestors attempted genocide. That’s the difference. I’d think it’s great they killed many innocent people. I know I shouldn’t, but really it makes me :lol:.

My culture is not American “culture” (what an oxymoron). I reject the materialism, chauvinism, and bigotry of American society. I am nothing like the Americans around me. I am more Indian than American in culture, just as the Hispanics here are more Hispanic than American, the Vietnamese more Vietnamese than American, the Chinese more Chinese than American, and so on.

You have a laughably narrow-minded view of “culture.” This is because you think the world revolves around Western culture and Western idealism. I am sorry to say that it does not and to say that such a thing as “ethnic pride” does exist.

BREAKING NEWS!!! BREAKING NEWS!!! [B]In order to be a Hindu, you must be a Yoga practitioner. [/B]

Silly ostentatious prevaricate, one does not have to practice Yoga to be Indian or Hindu. Yoga is just one of the 10 or 11 sects in Hinduism.

In fact, I can guarantee you SD and I have read more Indian scriptures than most people on the forum.

What about you? What Indian scriptures have you read?

What knowledge of Hinduism, India, Hindus, and Indians do you have besides the “Dancing Is Banned In India” video?

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

This is precisely why we refer to you guys as mlecchas and asuras. Westerners like you are the most culturally narrow minded and racially biased people on the planet.

You can talk about whatever you want, I have no problem to talk about race. Why would I? Why does it make you uncomfortable? Very simple: Because you are at least very close to being a racist. I still think that you have to be labelled as a racist, even if you speak of “cultural supremacist” and such. You still need to … border yourself from racism, as that border so far is only a verbal claim of yourself. You behave like a racist, so just saying “I’m not” isn’t good enough.

Because you live in a society that has quite a history of racism and intolerance.

Because you hold onto the antiquated notions of there being different races. Ironically enough, this is exactly what racist Europeans once thought; that humanity was divided into groups/species:

Negroids
Caucasians
Mongoloids
and something else I can’t remember

Yep. The “pissing contest” you, my friend, started, was about science. Western science, Indian science. Western science is largely the result of cooperation. I though admit that I simply picked up your simple-minded world view and spoofed it with the “my dad your dad”-parody. Now, if you want to depict it that way, I’d like to suddenly change my clownish viewpoint to what’s the case:

You first brought it up in a completely unrelated thread.

I am Deutsch. From Deutschland. And Deutsch-landers, like other Europeans back then, were racist to every other non-white person on the planet. In fact, Immanuel Kant, one of the greatest philosophers in history, was racist to blacks. In fact, by looking at historical documents and records, it is obvious that Deutschland was one of the most religiously bigoted and Antisemitic nations on the planet. That is why Germans were the 2nd largest immigrant in the U.S in the 1840’s-1860’s; they wanted to escape religious persecution and societal inequality. Do you agree or is this not the case? And since I do not understand the concept of Western cultural and racial supremacy and because I have never taken the time to pick up a history book, I will choose to have selective amnesia and forget that Europeans all had the same religion, the same racial mindsets, and the same notions of superiority of their civilization.

Fix’d.

Seriously. I justify nothing -

:lol::lol:

Just btw do I know -

:lol::lol::lol:

Funny:

In the discussion in context of Shiva Reah you said that women and girls who dress sexy could not be respected. Couple of quotes:

Interesting, huh? And fyi: I lured you into this, you rethorics amateur. :stuck_out_tongue:

You sure do fail in recognizing contexts.

SD was essentially saying that women who dress disrespectfully can’t be respected not because they can’t be respected but because others find it hard to respect them. Because men would be “temped” by lust.

Get it?

However; just wanted to quote this as such a perfectly typical example.

Now why did the British do that -

PC much?

It was racial and cultural supremacy and greed that drove the British to outdo their other European counterparts and acquire the world’s riches for themselves.

In my college level World History course, our teacher would give us heaps of primary documents written by colonial administrators and other racists, who wanted to justify their conquest of the world. All I saw in those documents were phrases like this: “We are civilizing their people” and “Their very resentment and resistance to colonial rule is an indication of how we have civilized them.”

But of course, you would continue to justify this by saying that it was not the majority’s decision.

Then I would LOL and tell you that Imperialism was highly popular among the nationalistic masses of Europe, who thronged to the newspaper stands to receive news of their nation’s most recent exploits.

I have pointed out over and over again that it’s not about making a crime just -

:lol::lol::lol:

The only explanation -

Sweety. Of course will [B]civilised people look for explanations. [/B]

Please refrain from using the racially connotative word “civilized” from now on.

Exactly what I said. German kids learn this at school. Any documentary on Nazigermany depicts this.[B] What you bitch claim to be the “disgusting” viewpoint of a “neonazi” who “posts on stormfront.org”.[/B] Again: This is why you have to be punished -

Oh stop crying.


#267

[QUOTE=Quetzalcoatl;59880]Hi Nietzsche,

you’re trying too hard, youngling. Learn to keep your cool. ;)[/QUOTE]

You are setting a bad example. What ever would an impressionable youth like me do without the civilizing and moderating influence of Quetzalcoatl?

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


#268

[QUOTE=Quetzalcoatl;59782]Hi Surya Asura,

man, all the rethorics again. :lol: So hilarious.

You misunderstood me, sweety. When you say I am a neonazi because I think that things lead to wrong doings, then you call anyone who thinks so a neonazi. So if there are such people among the 40,000 unique visitors this forum has per month, they will feel labeled as neonazis as well. Get it? Like when I say “whoever thinks quantum teleportation is about transporting matter is stupid”. In general.

And since my views are not even remotely racist or that of a neonazi, but common sense that you find in any book, on any website and in every reasonable law, anybody with these regular view is labelled a neonazi and a racist by you. In general, dude.[/quote]

I am quite convinced you are a troll now. I was fairly convinced before, but now I can be sure. You are just wrangling like the dishonourable Asura you are.
You know what I mean by the Neo-Nazi like views, because I pointed it out, such as your comments that the the Nazis were victims of their poverty and this is why they did bad things to the Jews, or your comments that colonialism was simply the West evenings things out.

Somehow I don’t think 40,000 unique vistitors agree with your neo-nazi views Q.

That’s Karma: Harmful effects are caused by harmful actions from the past

Nope, I already explained to Pandara his understanding of karma was not correct twice or thrice in that thread.

The word karma comes from Sanskrit. It literally means action, but implying the totality of action, which includes both action and reaction. There are three great types of karma, sanchita karma, prarabdha karma and kriyamana karma. Sanchita is the whole mass of unexhausted karma which still waits to be worked out. It is like mass karma. Prarabdha is that particular part of the first which has been selected to be worked out in this incarnation. It is like the man’s destiny for this life, as reflected in astrological birth charts. And kriyamana is the new karma which we are constantly making by our present deeds.

http://www.fivearts.net/index.php?topic=6746.0

If you still want to behave ignorant - be my guest, what else should I expect from an Asura?

Of course I have, it’s called freedom of speech, dude. This forum is D.'s responsibility and I was banned for things far from claiming someone would be proud of his ancestors killing children and such. Far from. Far. Lightyears away. Not even remotely comparable. Stuff, that David had even agreed with. The shit you pull off? Hardly worth a one-liner. Sure I have the right to judge that.

Your freedom of speech does not include criticising David in the forum and calling him immature, naive and unintelligent. Again, kudos to David and his tolerance and open mind. In this exchange it is you who are showing yourself up - nobody else.

What, however, David does not understand is the difference between a) being open minded and tolerating heated debates and b) granting a propagandist like yourself a platform to spread their sick shit.

I am not the one excusing serial killers, rapists and Nazis here because they are victims of their circumstances. Nor am I disrespecting your parents. Nor am I repeatedly calling you “bitch, racist, idiot etc” I admit my language can be harsh, but you really outdo me when it comes to abuses. Again you are just showing your Asura upbringing.

The fact is clear that you’re an idiot and while this might impress some idiots even more stupid than you are, you’ve done yourself a disfavor with this nonsense and surely lost quite some reputation among smart people. Smart you would be to take that accusation back instead of providing me with more and more keywords to further explain how and why you’re an idiot.

Just letting the smart people know who is the one here who has no argument so they take recourse to insults. Also who is Deva and who is Asura :wink:

Again, read the above about why I think you’re taking it too far. Of course do I know that you simply want to insult me and discredit me.

Whose insulting who here :smiley: You are discrediting yourself. First you excuse Nazis and rapists as victims of circumstances. Then tell us colonialism(read: extermination and enslaving non-white civilisations) was just evening out the wealth in the world because of those greedy countries. Then tell me I am disgrace to my parents. Then tell David he is immature, naive and unintelligent.

You’re the one digging your grave here Shishupal(google it)

I’m sorry to hear that, but it explains + excuses a lot.

The number makes no difference, they’d all be a disgrace to their religion and nation.

Our religion itself calls you guys Asuras :smiley: We had many names for you historically: mleccehas(barbarians) anaryan(ignoble) and asuras(demons) :smiley:

The views I do not share I made obvious, for example western people being barbarians who are like animals and backwards and incapable of doing science.

I never said Western people were barbarians, animals backwards. I said Western culture and Western “civilisation” Do you know what Gandhi said when he was asked about what he thought about Western civilisation? He said, “I think it would be a good idea” :wink:

Awww, aren’t you pc?! :roll: There are races and it’s no problem to note that. The problem begins when one says stuff like “white man this” or “white washed that”. You stopped using these terms, though, after I pointed out their racist implications (at least I didn’t read that ever again afterwards). Or “western people are like animals” or “Indian culture was more advanced than others because that’s the way it is”. So the problem begins when it is being implied that with race more than just phenotypical characteristics are to be associated.

Your logic makes no sense. To call a white person “a white person” is racist?
In that case when we say “black person” are we being racist :wink:

It is interesting to note you are still the only one here in this discussion maintaing race exists.

For example - I dunno how often I mentioned it without getting a comment from you - do you live in Britain. You are British. Your culture is British culture. Nietzsche is an American, his culture is American culture. If you disagree, then on what base? How are you not British, how is Nietzsche not American? Because you guys are not like Americans and British? But how are they how you are not? What makes them and you different? I had asked you several times what’d be wrong about for example my point of view. Religion? I’m closer to Hinduism than I am to Christianity. For example. Supremacist thinking? I am neither proud of my culture, nor of my nation, nor of any achievements of my people; you guys are for more supremacist. I even do more Yoga than you and Nietzsche combined. What’s wrong with me? You know what you said about that? I would take glee of my ancestors attempted genocide. That’s the difference. I’d think it’s great they killed many innocent people. I know I shouldn’t, but really it makes me :lol:.

You can talk about whatever you want, I have no problem to talk about race. Why would I? Why does it make you uncomfortable? Very simple: Because you are at least very close to being a racist. I still think that you have to be labelled as a racist, even if you speak of “cultural supremacist” and such. You still need to … border yourself from racism, as that border so far is only a verbal claim of yourself. You behave like a racist, so just saying “I’m not” isn’t good enough.

Again logic not making sense boss. So because I am British I cannot criticise British culture? Geez, this means that British culture critics cannot criticise British culture either :wink:

You are getting more funny than annoying now. Like I said, you suffer from a narrow mind. In your decaying mind you cannot seem to fathom this notion that somebody of minority ethnicity could be living somewhere and still be critical about it without being racist and proud of their ethnic culture :smiley: Does it hurt your brain or something?

I am German. From Germany. And Germans never were to India, never raped India, never looted India, are not responsible for any dead Indian. Do you agree or is this not the case? And since you’re not only speaking of “the West” and “you” in this thread in our conversation, but in every conversation with anybody all the time: Why do you do that? Why don’t you say “the British”? The West, that is for example Denmark too. What did Denmark to India? Or Sweden. France. Belgium. Netherlands. Italy. Greece. Iceland! What have these countries done wrong?

Again, you are speaking on behalf of the West in this thread. I am speaking on behalf of India.

Seriously. I justify nothing, I look for explanations. Sorry if that’s “insensitive”, but I’m not hear to console the struggling. And in any court that would trial a rape-case, this question would be asked too (“law is reason free from passion”) and any rapist can indeed argue in any court of law in the civilised world “she made me do it” and any such court would be obligated to investigate such arguments.

A Rapist may argue that in court, but no civilised court of law would excuse the act of rape just because he said “she made do it” If rape has taken place they would serve the term. To rape a woman requires 1) that you are aroused and 2) forced sex. Thus in civilised socieites, dear, rapists do not get away.

It really does speak a lot for your character for speaking in defense of rapists. Asura.

In the discussion in context of Shiva Reah you said that women and girls who dress sexy could not be respected. Couple of quotes:

Interesting, huh? And fyi: I lured you into this, you rethorics amateur. :stuck_out_tongue:

The context is different. In this context women are going out for the intention of being seen in a sexually objectifying way. Hence, why they dress provocatively to lure the attention of men and do this because women in Western society have submitted to patriarchy, and in order to survive have become masculine themselves and disempowered their feminity. However, even in this case if such a woman gets raped, this does not at all excuse the behaviour of a rapist. Even if she went out naked - a man cannot be excused for saying, “Well, she was naked and asking for it” A rapist is a rapist. They deserve punishment.

In civilised socieities dear - criminals get punished. The law does not say, “It was because of their circumstances” It requires a concious act to commit a crime like rape.

See, isn’t it great of me to teach you about who did what? Now you say “the British”. Very good. In the thread on Shiva Rea I found this post, quite typical of you:

Typically you. Typically. And it looks racist and it sounds racist and it smells racist and it tastes racist and it feels racist and if it’s still not racist, well: Hm… “The West”. “Western people”. “Western mind”. How do you call it again? Cultural supremacism?

As you said it is typical. Everybody on this forums knows I am a cultural supremist and I have never hidden that and actually boldly declared it over and over again. High wolf himself said to your ignorant accusations, that I am not racist, that I am not racist.

The irony here is that if I have publically stated several times on this forum in various places I do not believe in race and for me all of humanity is the same race. On the other hand, you have maintained that you do believe in race, you joker :smiley:

Sweety. Of course will civilised people look for explanations. Beyond doubt will they. Among other reasons particularly to - as I had pointed out crystal clearly - learn from mistakes. For example will they not just see Nazis gassing Jews and simply condemn the evil Nazis and that’s it. They will research how this could happen in depth and detail. It is on the contrary a primitive viewpoint not to do that. Very very primitive. Very very narrow minded. A redundant standpoint and mostly that of those who only desire to blame and condemn and anathematize people. If you take Nazi Germany for example, the history as - as far as I’ve read it - adequately explained on Wikipedia starts like this:

Exactly what I said. German kids learn this at school. Any documentary on Nazigermany depicts this. What you bitch claim to be the “disgusting” viewpoint of a “neonazi” who “posts on stormfront.org”. Again: This is why you have to be punished, because in the eyes of your target audience, the stupid people (and you nationlists brothers), you depict people with this regular viewpoint as disgusting and neonazis. This can’t be happening, and David the naive and immature, fails to understand it.

Your original argument was that the Nazis were a victim of their poverty and it these circumstances that lead to the holocausts. Then Neitzsche debunked your point that Germany was that poor. You have been arguing for a long time that we are just a product of our circumstances and therefore nobody can be blamed, including serial killers!

Lets see now: You are speaking on behalf of rapists, serial killers and Nazis. What a delightful man you are :wink:


#269

[QUOTE=High Wolf;59829]Wait a second! This thread should be on Spirit’s path section…

Well, you guys did it again. Well done! Every thread like this ends up being in religion forum. It occurs to me that religion forum has become a junkyard, where people scrap stuffs and collect spare parts from virtual trash bins Q.Q[/QUOTE]

I kind of have to agree here.

At least be happy that all the hate and ignorance is channeled into one section…


#270

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;59903]However, you deserve to be banned for insulting David. Insulting you or me is one thing, but insulting the guy who can ban you with a click and who has been the most tolerant and kind person in this forum is going too far.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t be very tolerant and kind if I banned him though, would I? :slight_smile: I am not Q’s teacher, he and I are well aware of that. I do consider him to be one of my teachers, however.

I just had a long conversation on the phone with my guru. For about 9 months, my relationship with him soured because of something I accessed within me. I lashed out at him. Yet he did not react. He just held space for me to have my reactions and he loved me regardless. If he would have reacted or lashed back at me, our relationship may never have healed and I probably would have strayed off the path. But that’s what makes him a guru. Where everyone else in my life would have reacted to me, he did not. He responded.

The religion forum is an opportunity for exactly that. To practice responding instead of reacting; to go inside when you feel yourself reacting and explore where it’s coming from and to integrate those emotions. It may be that all of you who post in here are in no way benefiting from it, I don’t know. But there are those of us who mostly watch, who are. Buddha talked about finding peace in the marketplace. I don’t know that anyone who is taking part in the marketplace is working towards that. It is the practitioners walking amongst the chaos that are.

The two threads I moved today had taken a turn towards chaos. No biggie. It serves its purpose.


#271

I wouldn’t be very tolerant and kind if I banned him though, would I? :slight_smile: I am not Q’s teacher, he and I are well aware of that. I do consider him to be one of my teachers, however.

Not all things must be tolerated. At times, it is evil to even tolerate something.

Take, for example, the notion slavery. In the decades leading up to the Civil War, the majority of the nation displayed considerable antipathy to the idea of abolishment. They hated the militant abolitionists such as William Loyd Garrison and Elijah Lovejoy who poured vitriolic excrement on the “unusual system” on a ritual basis. “We must learn to tolerate their customs!” politically correct Americans cried aloud.

But at what expense? The African Americans?

I remember an event from Mark Twain’s Huckleberry Finn, in which Tom Sawyer’s aunt says something akin to “Thank God it was a lucky accident,” in reference to a steamboat explosion that took the lives of a few African Americans.

It is precisely this casual and happy-go-lucky view of slavery and African American “sub-human savages” in those days in America that caused the majority of Americans to defend the “custom” of slavery, to treat it as merely a doctrine in the Bible of the Southern way of life, rather than as an sinister societal system propagated by materialism and racism.

In a similar manner, should we tolerate the doctrinal bigotry against pagans and infidels in Christianity and Islam? Yes? Even after a total of 2000 years of hatred, violence, slaughter, death, racism, and religious supremacy? Even in the 21st century, where such doctrines form the backbone of anti-abortion, anti-gay rights, fundamentalist, and even racist movements (ever noticed the crapping on Obama by conservatives and their unremitting insistence of him not being born in the U.S, sentiments which are borne out of diabolical feelings of African American inferiority?)? Even after posters like this are distributed throughout India, regardless of how Hindus try to inculcate tolerance in Indian society?

I just had a long conversation on the phone with my guru. For about 9 months, my relationship with him soured because of something I accessed within me. I lashed out at him. Yet he did not react. He just held space for me to have my reactions and he loved me regardless. If he would have reacted or lashed back at me, our relationship may never have healed and I probably would have strayed off the path. But that’s what makes him a guru. Where everyone else in my life would have reacted to me, he did not. He responded.

This was a touching story David.

I really don’t know why you consider yourself a bad guy. You really aren’t.

Even if you are, you do a hell of a great job in suppressing that side of you.

The religion forum is an opportunity for exactly that. To practice responding instead of reacting; to go inside when you feel yourself reacting and explore where it’s coming from and to integrate those emotions. It may be that all of you who post in here are in no way benefiting from it, I don’t know. But there are those of us who mostly watch, who are. Buddha talked about finding peace in the marketplace. I don’t know that anyone who is taking part in the marketplace is working towards that. It is the practitioners walking amongst the chaos that are.

The two threads I moved today had taken a turn towards chaos. No biggie. It serves its purpose.

I understand where you are coming from.

I am quite possible the most reactive person on the forum. David, stop thinking otherwise. :wink: I lashed out at High Wolf on this thread for what I perceived were racist remarks. However, I realized that if I had just stayed calm and provided the necessary information, all would have been good. But the damage has been done. I lost the acquaintanceship of a great personality.

But please understand where I am coming from, why I am so compelled to react many times instead of responding. Only a few years ago, I was suffering from a depression. I felt like an utter piece of shit, an embodiment of the Indian stereotypes of caste, cow, and curry. I found absolutely no worth in any of the Indian scriptures or texts that I read. The f’d up media and academia here did not help at all. Nowhere, in any of the material I learned did I find anything relevant to my identity or my experiences. I was nobody. During those times, I actually wished I was white (:D) and was seriously considering converting out of Hinduism (:o).

No Indian should have to go through what I did. No Indian or Hindu should have to think himself as following an inferior religion and coming from an inferior culture, society, and nation.

That’s why I am incredibly harsh towards Western pretentious of superiority. Harsh towards the members of the forum who repeatedly assert the misconceptions that Ancient Indians were cannibals, Yoga predated “Hinduism”, Hinduism = caste = polytheism = poverty = drinking from Ganges, and so on, which are ultimately based on the flawed Aryan Invasion Theory, a theory even Indians like Rabindranath Tagore (1861-1941) questioned and criticized. That’s why I am harsh to Westerners who act as if the very notions of “civilization” originated from them and who refuse to accomplish the considerable achievements of other civilizations and people coming from other civilizations, like this guy (956 C.E - 1040 C.E), who was literally the Isaac Newton of the Muslim World and who predated him by 7 centuries. All that happens as a result is the depiction of Muslims as retarded terrorists and Hindus as cow-piss drinkers.

If we Hindus sit around and cozy up to dogmatic Westerners, there might as well be no such thing as “Indian” Yoga or even Hinduism. Every day I see an Indian in my community who rejects his faith out of misinformation and anti-Hindu propaganda and starts calling it “paganism.” Should we Hindus just sit by and wait another couple of centuries before things change? The majority of the people on this forum have not seen what we Indians have seen in India; mass conversions, cultural subversion of Hinduism through denigration by the media and Christian run government, separatist movements, division of India by the Aryan Invasion theory, etc. India might as well be a Christian nation by then, ignorant and hateful of its roots and forever a slave to those civilizations who at least know themselves.

As Martin Luther King said, time is neutral and does not change things. Time can be either be a destructive or constructive force. Only the strong and persistent stance of Hindus combat their cultural oppression will change things. In this Age of Kali, an Age of convoluted morals, toleration and silence in the face of evil will only produce more evils.

Hence the phrases “intellectual Kshatriya” or “intellectual violence.”


#272

You’re absolutely right.

We tolerate things we shouldn’t on a daily basis and even partake in actions that others shouldn’t tolerate. Pollution of the environment? Check. Robbed by our politicians and bankers? Check. Illegal wars? Check. And the list goes on.

And we SHOULDN’T tolerate it. However, the first battle is within ourselves. We shouldn’t tolerate those actions controlling us on an emotional level. If they induce fear, anger, or violent emotions, then we are being controlled by them on an emotional and physiological level. We must first find peace within ourselves, root out the emotional traumas that are causing us to react, and only THEN can we stand our ground and respond to the intolerable in a positive manner.

There is nothing intolerable going on in this forum though it understandably FEELS like it. When we emotionally react, it’s because it is reminding us of something from the past that WAS intolerable. There is plenty of unconsciousness, immaturity and reaction, but that just sets the space for various practices.

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;59940]I really don’t know why you consider yourself a bad guy. You really aren’t.

Even if you are, you do a hell of a great job in suppressing that side of you.[/quote]
I don’t consider myself a bad guy. I’m just honest regarding what’s within me.

If that personality is as great as you think it is, then no you didn’t.

I’m sorry you had to go through such things.

hugs

Fixed.

No it isn’t. You’re harsh with them because you haven’t yet grieved for what you lost and they’re reminding you of that past pain.

Sounds like India may need another Gandhi. I hope someone is able to go deep enough within themselves to connect to what Gandhi obviously did.


#273

I for one am in complete support of David’s tolerance and free speech and free thought policy. We cannot insulate ourselves from certain speech or thought, because if David were to censor it here, we would find it elsewhere. How many forums I have been on, how many youtube video comments, how many people I have talked to, even Indians themseves in India who have repeated the same misconceptions and prejudices about India/Hinduism. We cannot fight everybody now can we who states this? I have been tempted before to put everyone straight - but they are like a hydra - chop one head of and another one pops up.

The fact is we cannot change the fact that people hold these views and then propogate them. The best that we can do is represent ourselves with the same free speech and free thought they use to make their ignorant statements.

I think David should be applauded for allowing a Hindu voice on this forum and acknowleding and respecting the validity of our view that Yoga is Hindu. It makes a Yoga forum more complete to have a Hindu voice. As much as it makes a Qigong forum more complete to have a Taoist voice.


#274

Hi Surya Asura,

I think David should be applauded for allowing a Hindu voice on this forum and acknowleding and respecting the validity of our view that Yoga is Hindu. It makes a Yoga forum more complete to have a Hindu voice. As much as it makes a Qigong forum more complete to have a Taoist voice.
David has the same opinion on all your issues like all those people whom you insult as hard as you can. He thinks that you and the likes of you are traumatized people who need a hug - and even there we don’t disagree. Unfortunately he does not understand that while a hug might help someone like young Nietzsche, it won’t help a die-hard extremist like yourself. People like you will only exploit his kindness, you prove that every day, you prove it with this post where you depict him as “on your side” and holding your views and having your opinions.

If you love him so much and adore him, why don’t you ease up a bit, back down a bit, make some compromises? Why are you on the contrary becoming more extreme and extremistic by the minute? Do you think he appreciates that? Help the fellow out, if he means so much to you, instead of causing him nothing but trouble.

PS: I guess I won’t further reply to your facepalmish squirming, you know, like here:

[quote]You misunderstood me, sweety. When you say I am a neonazi because I think that things lead to wrong doings, then you call anyone who thinks so a neonazi. So if there are such people among the 40,000 unique visitors this forum has per month, they will feel labeled as neonazis as well. Get it? Like when I say “whoever thinks quantum teleportation is about transporting matter is stupid”. In general.

And since my views are not even remotely racist or that of a neonazi, but common sense that you find in any book, on any website and in every reasonable law, anybody with these regular view is labelled a neonazi and a racist by you. In general, dude.

I am quite convinced you are a troll now. I was fairly convinced before, but now I can be sure. You are just wrangling like the dishonourable Asura you are.
You know what I mean by the Neo-Nazi like views, because I pointed it out, such as your comments that the the Nazis were victims of their poverty and this is why they did bad things to the Jews, or your comments that colonialism was simply the West evenings things out.

Somehow I don’t think 40,000 unique vistitors agree with your neo-nazi views Q.[/quote]Yes I know what you mean. You’re helpless and all you got is repeating “you’re a nazi you’re a nazi you’re a nazi”. You don’t even know what a Nazi is, squirmboy. :roll:


#275

Hi Nietzsche,

[quote]And that is why I think that your shameless slander has to be punished and forbidden. Because you’re not only insulting me personally, but a lot of people, and you’re not only insulting all those people, but create hate for them. So if one of your stupid followers would believe your words and then come across someone who for example explains how the Nazis came to power, they (the stupid followers) would think these (the reasonable explainers) would be distgusting neonazis posting on stormfront.

Actually, you are the one calling Surya a “damn racist” and “bitch.”[/quote]because he is a damn racist and a bitch. How and why I would be a racist or a nazi, you wouldn’t know how to explain. You’d make up some nonsense I never said.

And that is why I think ignorant Westerners like you are the source of all suffering in the modern era.
What, that? That I call Surya Asura a damn racist and a bitch? That’s why? What do I ignore? What suffering do I cause?

Actually, THEY ARE.
REALLY?

Colonialism.
I reject it.

Imperialism.
I think it’s wrong.

Genocides.
The worst thing ever.

Racism.
Nothing could be further from my standpoint.

Western/White supremacy.
To some degree, can’t be denied, but I find it very unfortunate.

Slavery.
An unbelievable crime.

Missionary Activity.
Hm. Meant well and performed fair and without force, I’d classify it as information. Other variants: Repulse me.

Get it?
Yeah. Surya Asura is helpless when confronted with my arguments and shifts to hilarious insults and slander. And young Nietzsche, who was hurt and discriminated and needs the strong shoulder to lean on, parrots what his chosen master prompts. I suggest you try something else, maybe primal therapy or so. :stuck_out_tongue:


#276

Hi David,

[quote]However, you deserve to be banned for insulting David. Insulting you or me is one thing, but insulting the guy who can ban you with a click and who has been the most tolerant and kind person in this forum is going too far.
I wouldn’t be very tolerant and kind if I banned him though, would I? :-D[/quote]it’d be hilarious if you banned me for calling you naive and immature, while you “kindly” “tolerate” me being accused of enjoying millions of people getting killed. Among a ton of other stuff.

I am not Q’s teacher, he and I are well aware of that. I do consider him to be one of my teachers, however.
You’re flattering yourself, D.

I just had a long conversation on the phone with my guru. For about 9 months, my relationship with him soured because of something I accessed within me. I lashed out at him. Yet he did not react. He just held space for me to have my reactions and he loved me regardless. If he would have reacted or lashed back at me, our relationship may never have healed and I probably would have strayed off the path. But that’s what makes him a guru. Where everyone else in my life would have reacted to me, he did not. He responded.
Where’s the context? You’re the guru, I’m the diciple? I lashed out, and you still love me and grant me the awesome privilege to remain in your precious presence, where I can heal and grow and finally find my way back to you? Awwwww… :lol: It’s kinda like you’d feel grand if you invited me to your house and I was still allowed to tell you my opinion. Even though it’s your house!!111!!!111! :lol:

Sure I tell you my opinion. Are you the pope or what. If you throw me out: Your loss. And consider this: What if I’m not lashing out at you and insult you, but simply tell you the truth? What if you are naive, immature and lack of education? What if these, dunno, at least 4,000 posts spreading hate for race, nation, religion, culture are intolerable? Are you so sure I’m not right? How? Did you guru tell you that?

The religion forum is an opportunity for exactly that. To practice responding instead of reacting; to go inside when you feel yourself reacting and explore where it’s coming from and to integrate those emotions. It may be that all of you who post in here are in no way benefiting from it, I don’t know. But there are those of us who mostly watch, who are. Buddha talked about finding peace in the marketplace. I don’t know that anyone who is taking part in the marketplace is working towards that. It is the practitioners walking amongst the chaos that are.
No, I’m sorry, but the so called “religion” forum is one huge expression of your immaturity. You don’t understand where to draw a line, and therefore you created this forum where you can move cases of doubt. Only because it’s invisible on the recent-page and there’s a sticky noting that this is fighting arena doesn’t strip you off your responsibility. Particularly sick I find the idea that this is somewhat a showcase for “practitioners” to learn from the struggling of the primitive. Reading that, I had to think of Bumfights, maybe you wanna order a DVD or two.

If you were mature enough you would just allow what’s allright and forbid what’s not. Immature and arrogant people who wouldn’t like your policy about allowing heated debates in the public open could leave and you would not care about loosing someone’s expertise on bone-structure, as you wouldn’t care how many visitors you have per month or how high ranked your forum would be on google and all that irrelevant details.

The two threads I moved today had taken a turn towards chaos. No biggie. It serves its purpose.
You moved the threads after I posted this. That’s really a chaotic post that made the difference, David. :wink:


#277

[QUOTE=Quetzalcoatl;59990]No, I’m sorry, but the so called “religion” forum is one huge expression of your immaturity.[/QUOTE]
You’re probably right. I don’t deny I still have a lot of maturing to do. It must be frustrating for some people that the person in charge of this forum isn’t perfect :slight_smile:


#278

[QUOTE=David;60007]You’re probably right. I don’t deny I still have a lot of maturing to do. It must be frustrating for some people that the person in charge of this forum isn’t perfect :)[/QUOTE]ah

:lol:


#279

We tolerate things we shouldn’t on a daily basis and even partake in actions that others shouldn’t tolerate. Pollution of the environment? Check. Robbed by our politicians and bankers? Check. Illegal wars? Check. And the list goes on.

Agreed.

And we SHOULDN’T tolerate it. However, the first battle is within ourselves. We shouldn’t tolerate those actions controlling us on an emotional level. If they induce fear, anger, or violent emotions, then we are being controlled by them on an emotional and physiological level. We must first find peace within ourselves, root out the emotional traumas that are causing us to react, and only THEN can we stand our ground and respond to the intolerable in a positive manner.

Agreed.

There is nothing intolerable going on in this forum though it understandably FEELS like it. When we emotionally react, it’s because it is reminding us of something from the past that WAS intolerable. There is plenty of unconsciousness, immaturity and reaction, but that just sets the space for various practices.

I somewhat disagree.

I don’t consider myself a bad guy. I’m just honest regarding what’s within me.

Fair enough.

If that personality is as great as you think it is, then no you didn’t.

Fair point.

I’m sorry you had to go through such things.

hugs

No it isn’t. You’re harsh with them because you haven’t yet grieved for what you lost and they’re reminding you of that past pain.

Not true.

While some of it undoubtedly comes from those experiences of past pain, most of it comes from my intellectual viewpoints.

I am not the only one who has suffered at the hands of the Western world. The Muslims, the Jews, the Africans, the Chinese, the South East Asians, the Native Americans, and the Australian Aborigines all come to mind. I’m the not only one still suffering from the hands of the Western world; those Indians whom I encounter every day, who have lost all faith in their culture, who scorn their casteist and pagan religion, are a testament to that.

However, it is my hope that either the Western world reforms itself or a cultural revolution occurs that causes Indians to gain greater pride in their heritage.

Your patronizing attitude towards my life experiences is suggestive of British imperialists who looked on sympathetically and barbarian monkey Indians yapping for their independence and a better representation of their culture.

Sounds like India may need another Gandhi. I hope someone is able to go deep enough within themselves to connect to what Gandhi obviously did.

We do not need another Gandhi. We might as well be giving our nation to Pakistan or the Taliban if we had another Gandhi.

We need someone who is willing to do what is necessary to fight cultural oppression, corruption, societal degradation, and poverty and to bring about a cultural and intellectual renaissance.


#280

Hi Surya Asura,

David has the same opinion on all your issues like all those people whom you insult as hard as you can. He thinks that you and the likes of you are traumatized people who need a hug - and even there we don’t disagree. Unfortunately he does not understand that while a hug might help someone like young Nietzsche, it won’t help a die-hard extremist like yourself. People like you will only exploit his kindness, you prove that every day, you prove it with this post where you depict him as “on your side” and holding your views and having your opinions.

Too bad he is mostly wrong. :smiley: I am really not traumatized. I have had low points in my life like everyone else and rebounded from them, like everyone else. Those events changed me forever, just as it would change any other person. It doesn’t take a lack of traumatization to see hate posters like this

Or racist shit like

[B]“Another marked characteristic of the Anglo-Saxon is what may be called an instinct or genius for colonizing. His unequaled energy, his indomitable perseverance, and his personal independence, made him a pioneer. He excels all others in pushing his way into new countries.”[/B] - A passage from Reverend Josiah Strong’s book, a book that greatly influenced American imperialism and Social Darwinism.

Surya Deva has done nothing to exploit my kindness. I was the way I am well before I came to the forum. All he has done to me is add more to my understanding of Indian philosophy and history.

A hug may allow me to slake my anger but it sure as hell won’t change my views. The Western world is still oppressing the rest of the world, and if you think a hug is compensation enough for the hundreds of millions of deaths and ruined lives your civilization has caused, then you are deluded.

If you love him so much and adore him, why don’t you ease up a bit, back down a bit, make some compromises? Why are you on the contrary becoming more extreme and extremistic by the minute? Do you think he appreciates that? Help the fellow out, if he means so much to you, instead of causing him nothing but trouble.

Back down and ease up from the truth, the truth that Westerners are ignorant bigots who continue to culturally and intellectually others out of a feeling of superiority? Only a liar like you would do that. Fighters for truth do not.

PS: I guess I won’t further reply your facepalmish squirming, you know, like here:

Good riddance.

Yes I know what you mean. You’re helpless and all you got is repeating “you’re a nazi you’re a nazi you’re a nazi”. You don’t even know what a Nazi is, squirmboy. :roll:

Why are you becoming progressively ignorant? :stuck_out_tongue: