What's Samadhi for?

Mindfulness Meditation
#17

Dear Ben,

Well said. Well written. I bow to you. You are awesome. You are my brother! Thank you!

Surya Deva, listen to him! He’s absolutely right.

This part is true. What I meant by [I]“slip in and out”[/I] is, even after reaching samadhi, you still have to go to work and pay the bills. What about the Boddhisattva?

Some experts write books, others chat on the internet where we might be very surprised to meet one.

Did you know Patanajli did not author the Pradipika, but rather it’s a compilation from “experts:” a documentation of techniques recognized by rishis and sages from all over the Asian subcontinent, and over a period of centuries, to repeat most consistently the desired effects of yoga?

I am concerned about how others interpret what you say, much of which is simply false. I am not trying to be hard on you or criticize you, but only to help. I write this out of compassion, however inadequate it may be. But on the other hand, with the right attitude, this could be a big day for you. I hope so.

peace and love,
siva

PS. You still haven’t explained [I]“withdrawing prana from your sense organs.”[/I] You should look that one up again. Pratyahara is withdrawing the MIND from the sense organs. ; )

#18

In the Buddhadharma the Yoga comes at the end of the teachings. Which is pretty awesome.

Samadhi is a state of mental absorbtion either with or without an object.

#19

Yes, Samadhi is often described as complete absorbtion or self-absorbtion,as noted above.

What’s it for?

For releasing ourselves from bondage to the illusion of a separate self.It puts us in touch whith the higher self through unifying and merging of the individual with cosmic consiousness,the goal of yoga.Most folk live in a kind of dream-state which is “normal” consciousness. To get awakened is to wake up from that relative dream state.

Liberation and the end of suffering.You might also experience permanent bliss(of pure conscousness) and esctacy(of the effects of kundalini) which tend to characterise it. But the experience of unity and oneess, as well as divine love 24/7 .It is expanded consciousness.

Best advice is to drop all expectations about what it might be like and of course the conceptualising which only perpetuates & keeps us stuck in the illusion,the illusion of separation and disconnect.

#20

Beware the man of one book.
St. Thomas Aquinas

#21

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;32743]Beware the man of one book.
St. Thomas Aquinas[/QUOTE]

Ok, now that’s wisdom.

#22

Dear Ben,

If you are not meditating, then you are not. It does not get anymore simpler than this. Meditation isn’t something you do, meditation is something which happens once you have created the conditions. The main condition is pratyhara which requires cultivation of prana through yama, niyama asana and pranayama(the latter two are the most important towards this end)

Nobody has misunderstood Patanjali he has very clearly given a sequence of the stages of Yoga which need to be practiced in a sequence. The sequence is also scientifically sound. First of all, you need to commit to a certain lifestyle(yama and niyama) and discipline your senses, mainly through brahmacharya. Then you need to master asana so that your body can remain locked down for an indefinite period of time in meditation and through bandhas, mudras and other kriyas you train your pranic system and improve its functioning.

Your prana is directly connected to the activity in your mind. If you try to regulate the mind by regulating the activity of the mind, you are pretty much trying to tame a storm and will invariably fail. However, you can regulate the activity of the mind by regulating prana. This is why if you take just three deep breaths it puts your mind in a much more focussed state almost immediately. So logically, the better your pranic system is functioning, the more naturally focussed your mind will become. Then reaching pratyhara will be far more easier.

You are not meditating if you are not in pratyhara, you’re just daydreaming and wasting your time. You need to experience pratyhara just once to realise this. I know it is a hard pill to swallow that all this time you’ve most likely not been meditating, because you’ve commited so much time and effort to this, but this is nothing but the truth.

A few years ago I revealed this truth to a TM meditator, who was also outraged when I told him he was not meditating, but just dayreaming. Now, it is easy to see I was right about his practice. He has been meditating for 20 years and was born into a TM family. Despite this, his personality was no different to the average lad, he did drugs, smoking and alcohol, swore, failed his driving test several times, and was quick to get offended and angry. Do these seem like the traits of somebody who has been meditating for 20 years?
What a tragedy that for 20 years what he thought was meditation, was not in fact meditation.

I am saving you a lot of time energy and effort by telling you this hard truth. You can listen to it and reform your practice and get results quickly, or you can continue doing what you do for another 20 years and realise you haven’t got anywhere. Your loss or your gain.

This part is true. What I meant by [I]“slip in and out”[/I] is, even after reaching samadhi, you still have to go to work and pay the bills. What about the Boddhisattva?

You will not be working and paying bills once you have reached Samadhi. You will be doing seva and wandering the world teaching people out of the sheer compassion emanating from you to end their suffering. All of the awakened masters do this(Babaji, Jesus, Buddha, Guru Nanak etc).

You want to have your cake and eat it at the same time.

Did you know Patanajli did not author the Pradipika, but rather it’s a compilation from “experts:” a documentation of techniques recognized by rishis and sages from all over the Asian subcontinent, and over a period of centuries, to repeat most consistently the desired effects of yoga?

And did you know the Pradipika says hatha yoga is only a preliminary Yoga to Raja yoga(meditation yoga) In other words just what I am saying you begin with asana and pranayama first, and only then can you move onto meditation:

śrī-ādi-nāthāya namo|astu tasmai
yenopadiṣhṭā haṭha-yogha-vidyā |
vibhrājate pronnata-rāja-yogham
āroḍhumichchoradhirohiṇīva || 1 || || 1 ||

Salutation to ?din?tha (Śiva) who expounded the knowledge of Haṭha Yoga, which like a staircase leads the aspirant to the high pinnacled R?ja Yoga. 1.

परणम्य शरी-गुरुं नाथं सवात्मारामेण योगिना |
केवलं राज-योगाय हठ-विद्योपदिश्यते || २ ||

praṇamya śrī-ghuruṃ nāthaṃ svātmārāmeṇa yoghinā |
kevalaṃ rāja-yoghāya haṭha-vidyopadiśyate || 2 ||

Yogin Sw?tm?r?ma, after saluting first his Gur? Srin?tha explains Haṭha Yoga for the attainment of Raja Yoga. 2.

भरान्त्या बहुमत-धवान्ते राज-योगमजानताम |
हठ-परदीपिकां धत्ते सवात्मारामः कॄपाकरः || ३ |

bhrāntyā bahumata-dhvānte rāja-yoghamajānatām |
haṭha-pradīpikāṃ dhatte svātmārāmaḥ kṝpākaraḥ || 3 |

Owing to the darkness arising from the multiplicity of opinions people are unable to know the R?ja Yoga. Compassionate Sw?tm?r?ma composes the Haṭha Yoga Pradipik? like a torch to dispel it. 3.

So by mentioning the Pradipika as another authorative Yoga text you have simply backed up my point that one must begin with the preliminary stages first and then move onto the advanced stages. It is like this in all kinds of training. You start at the basics, master the basics and move on the intermediate and advanced stages. Why should it be any different in Yoga?

PS. You still haven’t explained [I]“withdrawing prana from your sense organs.”[/I] You should look that one up again. Pratyahara is withdrawing the MIND from the sense organs. ; )

Nope, it is actually the prana you are withdrawing. I know this is correct because Swami Yogananda says this explicitly. Withdrawing the mind is easy you can just daydream and lose awareness of what is going on around you. Pratyhara is something very specific and technical, this is when the pranic currents which are going to your sense organs are withdrawn inwards through very specific yogic techniques, and as a result you experience a complete sensory blackout and begin to introvert and go inwards at a very fast rate. The symptoms of this stage is visions.

The prelimary stages of asana and pranayama(kriya yoga basically) will allow you to gain control of your pranic system and be able to manipulate and control prana. This is known as prana-vidya. Then you will be able to channel the prana wherever you want it to go in your body or even outside of your body, you will also be able to tap prana from other sources like the air, sun rays, minerals and plants. Finally, you will be able to withdraw your prana inwards and reach pratyhara and commence dharana.

If you begin meditation(dharana) before this you are not meditating.

#23

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;32763]Dear Ben,

If you are not meditating, then you are not. It does not get anymore simpler than this.[/QUOTE]

Well that’s true - it doesn’t get simpler. But that doesn’t make you right I’m afraid.

Meditation isn’t something you do, meditation is something which happens once you have created the conditions.

If that is true, then Dhyana (meditation) would not be referred to as one of the limbs of yoga - it would be simply referred to as ‘something which happens’.
The meditation YOU are referring to is actually called Samadhi - but even then it is not ‘something which happens’. It is a state of awareness, and must be gradually cultivated. It too is one of the 8 limbs, and therefore is also not a final ‘something’: there are varying degrees of Samadhi, and until you have experienced them you would be better off not lecturing people as an authority.

Also, meditation as a state of awareness is only one meditation. When we speak of meditation, the word has another meaning: meditation as a practice. To advise people NOT to meditate is irresponsible. Many, many people benefit from the PRACTICE of meditation: as pain relief; as a means of balancing the emotions; as a means of concentrating the mind; and many others, not least, as a means towards the final goal of yogic discipline - Samadhi.

The main condition is pratyhara which requires cultivation of prana through yama, niyama asana and pranayama(the latter two are the most important towards this end)

NO. asana is not more important than yama and niyama. I have met many people (including many yoga teachers) who practice asana very nicely, but have no awareness of, nor application of, the yama and niyama in their life. It’s not pretty.

Nobody has misunderstood Patanjali

What, ever?

I know it is a hard pill to swallow that all this time you’ve most likely not been meditating, because you’ve commited so much time and effort to this, but this is nothing but the truth.

A few years ago I revealed this truth to a TM meditator

I wonder if he was also as charmed by your wisdom as the rest of us?

who was also outraged

Yes, thought so.

What a tragedy that for 20 years what he thought was meditation, was not in fact meditation.

I am saving you a lot of time energy and effort by telling you this hard truth. You can listen to it and reform your practice and get results quickly, or you can continue doing what you do for another 20 years and realise you haven’t got anywhere. Your loss or your gain.

Does your arrogance know no bounds?!

You will not be working and paying bills once you have reached Samadhi. You will be doing seva and wandering the world teaching people out of the sheer compassion emanating from you to end their suffering. All of the awakened masters do this(Babaji, Jesus, Buddha, Guru Nanak etc).

You want to have your cake and eat it at the same time.

This is total nonsense. There have been many enlightened masters who work amongst us as normal people. I have the privilege of knowing one, and he works harder than anyone I’ve ever met, has 4 kids, and pays his bills. You really should either a) think a little before speaking, or b) do some research.

If you begin meditation(dharana) before this you are not meditating.

It is not for you to say who is, and who is not, meditating. Unless they are your student, and have specifically asked you. Even then, I would advise serious thought before you answer - sometimes the truth does violence and is therefore best avoided.

You seem to think you know what is the most important aspect of yoga. I suggest to you that there is no ‘most important’ part. They are all equally essential.
You would do well to go back to the beginning and think deeply about Ahimsa (non violence). Your words are capable of violence too you know.

With love,
Ben

#24

Thank you Ben,

Could not have said it better. Saved me a lot of time and grief.

Siva

#25

Thanks Siva. I’m not sure why I bothered… :smiley:
But I did and it’s done and there you go!

#26

I am afraid all the major Yoga masters, the authorative Yoga texts, my own experiences and arguments from logic support what I am saying. Even the text Pradipika Siva mentioned to counter me supports what I am saying. It is obvious what I am saying here is right. In the end if I am right, you’re not mediating properly and will go on for years doing the same thing and get pretty much nowhere. So as I said it is either your loss or your gain.

The readers here can make up their own mind. Some will see merit in what I am saying and some will not. I am not saying all of this to convince, but to simply put the right information out there. I am afraid in my opinion, it is not me who is misleading anybody, but it is you by telling them to go sit in a corner, close their eyes and daydream and call that meditation. I have come across countless people who have been doing that for years and they are nowhere in their practice. Many give up meditation in frustration because they never get anywhere. Others turn meditation into a faith and act holy and spiritual, when in fact the reality is they are just as ordinary as everybody else.

If that is true, then Dhyana (meditation) would not be referred to as one of the limbs of yoga - it would be simply referred to as ‘something which happens’.
The meditation YOU are referring to is actually called Samadhi - but even then it is not ‘something which happens’. It is a state of awareness, and must be gradually cultivated. It too is one of the 8 limbs, and therefore is also not a final ‘something’: there are varying degrees of Samadhi, and until you have experienced them you would be better off not lecturing people as an authority. You may find yourself speaking to someone who has had direct experience of them, like myself.

You are speaking mostly from ignorance.

Awareness training is not Samadhi. If that was true I would be in Samadhi by simply reading a book, watching television, or writing this post. Awareness is part of the niyama santosha. It is a pre-meditation exercise which we inculcate in our daily life in order to prime our mind to make it fit for higher Yoga practice. This is why in the Yoga tradition the first few years of training did not involve any meditation, pranayama or even asana, but was about doing basic everyday chores with awareness.

Patanjali gave a sequence in order of the Samkhya cosmology. The first is the wordly part(yama and niyama) Then there is the physical body(asana) Then there is the energy body(pranayama) then the mental body(dharana) then the causal body(dhyana) and spiritual body(samadhi) Hinduism is all based on sequences and order of things. It is the same in the stages in life called the ashrams: student, household, forest-dweller and renunciant. It is also the same in society: labourer, merchant, admin and sage. The same in terms of worlds: physical plane, mental plane, spiritual plane.

The trouble with you is you want to run before you can walk. Good luck.

NO. asana is not more important than yama and niyama. I have met many people (including many yoga teachers) who practice asana very nicely, but have no awareness of, nor application of, the yama and niyama in their life. It’s not pretty.

Well, there you go then. They are not doing the proper practice, which includes Yogic lifestyle and diet as a preliminary. The results are they will not get the higher benefits of Yoga. Their loss.

This is total nonsense. There have been many enlightened masters who work amongst us as normal people. I have the privilege of knowing one, and he works harder than anyone I’ve ever met, has a 4 kids, and pays his bills.

Never heard of him. Can he levitate, have healing powers, transmit his consciousness into you, appear in many places at once? No? Then he is not enlightened.

I think we should use a bit of logic here. If meditation and yoga as its being practiced today works then where are all of those enlightened masters with their siddhis? hundreds of millions of people in the world are doing meditation and Yoga and yet everywhere I look I see ordinary people. The truth is, hundreds of millions of people are not doing Yoga and meditation properly(In fact they are not doing it at all) The science has been lost.

In fact forget the practice you need to go right to the basics and begin with theory. You clearly do not understand the theory.

#27

Surya,

I wasn’t countering with the Pradipika as you say, only that you named Patanjali as its author(ity) and that it was “He” who gave us the official, linear, sequence. Just an oversight, perhaps. I had hoped a little detail like that might help you see that the rishis and sages themselves were plain “folk:” people with families and jobs just like us, but who were unmistakably connected to a very strong vibration and were able to share techniques for cultivating that connection.

The sad thing is, you make yoga so lofty, so grandiose, who would want to try. My way or the highway huh? Isn’t just a little yoga a good thing, a little meditation? Do I have to achieve samadhi, or can I do what I can? Or am I just wasting my time because I am not doing it as you? I can see your meditation and your one experience of pratyahara serve you well.

Please post any “authoritative text” you have that says pratyahara is the withdrawl of prana from the sense organs. I don’t know if withdrawing the vital life force from anything is anything I would want to do, but I could be wrong.

I wish you well.

peace,
siva

#28

Surya Deva,

I wish you luck, and every success. It appears that you don’t need it, but all the same, my wish for you is so.

I won’t bother replying to the whole of your text as I did before, because I think that I would be wasting my time.
But I will just say this:
Your reference to Siddhis betrays you. Every serious student of yoga who has learnt from a teacher that knows what they are speaking of, understands that siddhis are not a sign of progress; rather, they are something to be avoided.
You would find a teacher who shows themself as ‘great’.
I would run a mile.

But, to each his own. Good luck on your path, I wish you peace and untold joy.

With love,
Ben

#29

Dear Siva,

Yoga is indeed the most lofty thing you will ever do, and you should only do it when you are ready to commit to it. It is the highest science and the results of the practice will transform you into a god. There is no higher accomplishment than this in the world.
If you think wordly things are important at this stage then you have not developed the dispassion necessary to start Yoga. You must first work through your wordly desires.
Yoga is not something you can do in bits and parts. It is a very serious spiritual path and commitment. If you are going to do it you either dedicate yourself completely or don't do it at all. However, if you still have strong wordly desires, you will find it hard to dedicate yourself.

It is okay if you want to practice the lower stages without commiting yet it will do no harm to practice awareness, concentration exercises(like tratika) vegetarianism, asana and pranayama. In fact it will do a great deal of good. But you can't do meditation. Meditation will happen. I will quote Swami Satyananda:

In Yoga we believe that meditation cannot be taught. Meditation also cannot be practiced. It is an event, a happening, a state of being and
becoming. Without the mastery of pratyhara it is impossible to induce dharana
(Swami Satyananda, Sure Ways to Self realisation, pp.73-74)

All that Yoga and tantra can do is arm you with practices whereby you can reach pratyhara and then commence dharana. If you are starting dharana without reaching pratyhara then you are not meditating.

I am saying this very honestly because I have experienced pratyhara myself I know how unmistakable it is. I have observed how the process works many times when I've experienced it and watched how the senses withdraw during sleep. It always happens after a complete sensory black-out and immediately visions start coming. I am not an expert in Yoga but I do know the basics very well and have done my own experiments and studies. I know how it works. So I am in a position to share it with you.

Swami Yogananda talks about withdrawing the prana from the sense organs in many of his discourses. There is also talk about it here:

Withdrawal of Prana or Prana Pratyahara
Control of our senses requires mastery over the flow of prana, as that is what drives the senses. To stop the scattering of valuable vital energy of the body or prana, we need to seek control over its flow, and harmonize it. This is done through various practices including bringing the entire focus to a single point in the body [5].

Withdrawing prana is not as dangerous as it sounds. It happens anyway when you go to sleep the prana withdraws from your senses, then into your mind, then into your consciousness. The same happens during death.

#30

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;32530]I’ve been meditating for quite a long time, but am quite new to Yoga. I was wondering what being in a state of Samadhi was for. I remember a couple of reputable Tibetan Buddhist meditators saying that sitting in a state of bliss might be nice, but it’s virtually useless. Meditation is to stable the mind and eliminate negative ways of thinking. So what is the point of Samadhi? What benefit does it actually have, and why is it so valued in Yoga?[/QUOTE]
well you could ask what eating is for, what is surfing for, what is sex for and on and on. If you can reach a state of samadhi while sitting, maybe you can bring it off the matt so to speak and have it throughout the day? So the tibetan buddhist say it is virtually useless, feeling good is useless?

#31

Hey guys, just so you know, My yoga mat is bigger then yours LOL

#32

Your reference to Siddhis betrays you. Every serious student of yoga who has learnt from a teacher that knows what they are speaking of, understands that siddhis are not a sign of progress; rather, they are something to be avoided.
You would find a teacher who shows themself as ‘great’.
I would run a mile.

Siddhis are not the goal of Yoga. However, Siddhis are the signs you have reached certain level of consciousness. If you have not reached those levels and you appoint yourself as guru, then not only are you lying to yourself, you are are lying to others. A guru is somebody who has reached that summits of Yoga. Only then can he/she take on disciples.

The false gurus out there will frown when you talk about siddhis because they don’t have any themselves. A true guru would not hestitate to show you siddhis. Jesus, Buddha, Guru Nanak, Babaji did not hestitate either. I would not accept anybody as my guru who could not demonstrate that they reached the high levels. If they do not have siddhis they will not be able to look into my mind and help me resolve my karmas, they will not be able to give me shaktipat and awaken my kundalini.

There is a massive difference between a a guru and a teacher.

One thing I want to make very clear realised yogis and risis are not ordinary people. They are superhuman, gods even. You will be very blessed to be in their presence. When they grace our Earth we look upon them as gods. They are the real role models of humanity. We are but children before them.

#33

[QUOTE=Brother Neil;32810]So the tibetan buddhist say it is virtually useless, feeling good is useless?[/QUOTE]

No, you’ve missed the point. Feeling good is not useless. Feeling a temporary bliss that does not have any impact on the development of your good human qualities is useless. It just like a high someone might get from shopping. It comes and goes and had left zero change to you as an individual.

#34

Are you sure that the Buddhists say that samahdi is virtually useless,where do they say this , my as usual, limited understanding was that buddhists say not to get to caught up in samahdi , or rather not to think that attainment of samahdi is attainment as it were. Bliss joy and contentment are not useless but of course they like the samahdi are a temporary state ,we perhaps should not go chasing after samahdi its not the main event.

#35

Vajrayana utilizes the bliss. Mahayana utilizes the Bliss. Utilize the Bliss!!!

Patanjali says: Don’t get wrapped up in the bliss.

Bliss is ever present if the self is uncovered.

#36

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;32814]No, you’ve missed the point. Feeling good is not useless. Feeling a temporary bliss that does not have any impact on the development of your good human qualities is useless. It just like a high someone might get from shopping. It comes and goes and had left zero change to you as an individual.[/QUOTE]
well if you get some useless bliss you dont want, send it my way please:) I see what your saying though. many say the point is to find that which is unchanging.
best to you
Brother Neil