Vajrayana utilizes the bliss. Mahayana utilizes the Bliss. Utilize the Bliss!!!
Patanjali says: Don’t get wrapped up in the bliss.
Bliss is ever present if the self is uncovered.
[QUOTE=YogiAdam;32814]No, you’ve missed the point. Feeling good is not useless. Feeling a temporary bliss that does not have any impact on the development of your good human qualities is useless. It just like a high someone might get from shopping. It comes and goes and had left zero change to you as an individual.[/QUOTE]
well if you get some useless bliss you dont want, send it my way please:) I see what your saying though. many say the point is to find that which is unchanging.
best to you
Brother Neil
Hi YogiAdam,
Actually I would say, based on my own(meditation) experience.that the bliss is indicative of pure/purified & rareified consciousness.Out of this witness state or inner silence, behaviour becomes morally self-regulating and self-regulated. It can also happen when we use a practice called Samyama ,by some, which makes use of the inner silence cultivated by deep forms of mantra meditation. And it is alleged this practice can cultivate siddhis. I have heard it compared to prayer.It basically makes use of sutras dropped into our inner silence.And it maybe what Patnjali referred to in ch.3.Theoretically it could be explained like introducing quantum vibrations(beyond mind),or sutras, that might manifest say externally- they are beyond the comprehension of the mind say… I don’t think i experienced the siddhis [I]then[/I],. but i think i’ve had maybeglimpses of it in the past.So i’ve got a rough idea.It was almost like a superawareness i felt somewhat compelled to conceal.
If you’ve been using an effective meditation technique or system then you were practicing yoga, although it’s just a word…Bliss is supermely useful and should’nt just be ephemeral.
The proof is in the pudding.Rather than take people’s word for it.Many texts describe bliss as charcterising pure consciousness,sat-chi-ananda.One technique i know of is Deep Meditation from a site called aypsite.org.I don’t (really) follow that system anymore but it’s one in the tool-box ,as it were, and will cultivate the bliss you speak of.The Tibetan Meditatiors; I’m not particularly up in Tibetan yoga but they have a rich heritage which it is thought to have evolved certainly to some degree separately from that on the Indian sub-contiinent, partly to do with reasons of culture and geography, i am led to believe.
[B]OP[/B]
I’ve been meditating for quite a long time, but am quite new to Yoga. I was wondering what being in a state of Samadhi was for. I remember a couple of reputable Tibetan Buddhist meditators saying that sitting in a state of bliss might be nice, but it’s virtually useless. Meditation is to stable the mind and eliminate negative ways of thinking. So what is the point of Samadhi? What benefit does it actually have, and why is it so valued in Yoga?
Ok–Meditation is to expand Consciousnness, a little bit or all the way.A very worthy and noble project, in my view.You are actually involving your (Higher) Self in the global effort to raise cosmic vibrations to another level.
It’s spiritual or cosmic evolution. It would seem to be an authentic kind.
[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;32743]Beware the man of one book.
St. Thomas Aquinas[/QUOTE]
Can you please elaborate on this?
Surya,
I agree with you here, but do you understand what this means to those who are only curious about yoga? Who are just beginning to open their hearts and minds to yoga as you once did? So many who are reading this today? So tenderly, like newborn infants, the light just beginning to dawn and you would scream this into a baby’s ear? Blow it out! No?
I agree, and know, that yoga holds all of this potential, 100%, but if you assert to people, so strongly, that yoga is about transforming yourself into a “god,” would it not tend only to cause doubt and confusion for many, perhaps even justify a healthy sense of disrespect, those who are not yet out of the gate? This is what leads many to believe that yoga is “a pursuit for perfection”, drives people away from yoga as something that is impossible, and hypocritical, and that is my greatest concern here, certainly not to argue with someone who is obviously so extremely knowledgeable as yourself. Your knowledge, your gift, is not only immature, it’s wasted, irresponsibly.
More of the same. Does this inspire anyone out there? Help me out here folks.
Is this not self-contradictory? Are you now retracting previous statements?
We are elated for you, but why is it not obvious to us?
Please post even one quote from his text that supports this.
[quote=Surya Deva;32809] There is also talk about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratyahara[/quote] Is this a joke? Wiki? Would you equate this with “withdrawing prana?” Who authored this? Do we know?
[I]“To stop the scattering of valuable vital energy of the body or prana, we need to seek control over its flow, and harmonize it.”[/I]
This is most likely true. Maybe it’s just semantic, but focus and control of prana, to me, do not equate withdrawl, and this is exactly why.
And not to go on and on, but back to a previous misinterpretation, the Pradipika, as I understand it and was also taught, does not outline the eight limbs of yoga as a linear sequence because it’s literally the only way one graduates to samadhi, but rather in order from more gross to more subtle, which is most “logical.” This is a common misinterpretation and why, for example, some say yoga practice is to be performed only in the order of asana, pranayama and then meditation: from gross to subtle, which is good, but not necessary. Meditation can “happen” anywhere. Pranayama can be performed before asana, etc. This is clearly only a book-learned understanding of yoga and life that leaves me cold: extremely rigid, unpractical, out of touch.
This has been a very interesting discussion, but it’s a downward spiral that will eventually hit bottom: the end of knowledge. But then, there will be light, a new dawn, and some will revisit all of this on the way back up, laugh about it, and love the journey.
See you then,
siva
Siva, I am not here to convert people to Yoga. I understand as soon as people know the truth about what Yoga is few people will try it. Yoga is a Hindu practice based on the sole aim to reach self-realization and become a god(this is what it means to enter into union with the divine) It is a very serious spiritual path only for people who are ready to take the path.
I understand those people who are trying to market Yoga to the West are going to really disprove of my honesty but they are ultimately misleading the West by marketing Yoga as a stress buster, physical relaxation, muscle toning and weight loss program. Sure, it gets the Secularists, Christians and Muslims doing Yoga and sure it makes them more spiritual and I am glad for them, but what they do not realise they is that they are practicing Hinduism and will gradually become Hindu the deeper they go into their Yoga practice. It is actually great if they do become Hindu, if the world becomes Hindu we will have a much more enlightened world. However, I do not believe in deception, nobody should be deceived into becoming a Hindu. They need to be told from the outset what they are getting themselves involved in, what is the history, cultural context and philosophy of Yoga so they can make an informed decision.
Is this not self-contradictory? Are you now retracting previous statements?
No, because my statement was that one is not practicing meditation unless they reach pratyhara. You can do the previous steps if you want, I mean why not? They will do a great deal of good and prepare you for meditation. I am not here to tell people what to do or what not to do. I am simply telling the truth that the practice they call meditation is not meditation and they are wasting their time. Instead, I am telling them the truth that if they want to go to the advanced stages of Yoga(meditation) that they will need to first master the prelimary stages which they can do at their own pace.
One thing is very clear though Yoga is a very serious spiritual path and does require dedication. The more intense your practice the faster you will reach the goal of becoming a god. At this moment I am like you and others, I do not have an intense practice, I do whatever I can which obviously makes some difference, but at the end of the year I am going to India to find a master and then completely dedicate myself to his Yoga. Then I will have a very intense practice. I am very serious about spirituality.
If you indeed are reaching pratyhara by “meditation” you are doing right now just ignore what I am saying. However, if you are not reaching it, then you would be wise to listen to my advice. It is unmistakeable you will experience a complete black out of the senses and experience very vivid visions. If you’ve had this experience then whatever you are doing is working. If you’re not had this experience or barely have had it, then whatever you are doing is not working and you need to do something different.
Mental training is just like any other other training. You need to monitor your progress constantly and measure your gains.
To lighten things up and make Yoga sound a bit ridiculous. Yoga is training to become a superhuman god-like being with superpowers 
Good lord almighty there is so much wrong in here I don’t know where to start. Lets start at the beginning.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;32912]Siva, I am not here to convert people to Yoga. I understand as soon as people know the truth about what Yoga is few people will try it.
Yoga is a Hindu practice based on the sole aim to reach self-realization and become a god(this is what it means to enter into union with the divine) It is a very serious spiritual path only for people who are ready to take the path.
[B]Yoga is not a “Hindu” practice. Many “Hindus” don’t practice the yoga.
You can consider yourself “hindu” and not practice yoga.
Before there even was a name called “India” there were beings practicing yoga all over Gods creation since time began. [/B]
I understand those people who are trying to market Yoga to the West are going to really disprove of my honesty but they are ultimately misleading the West by marketing Yoga as a stress buster, physical relaxation, muscle toning and weight loss program. Sure, it gets the Secularists, Christians and Muslims doing Yoga and sure it makes them more spiritual and I am glad for them, but what they do not realise they is that they are practicing Hinduism and will gradually become Hindu the deeper they go into their Yoga practice.
T[B]hey will gradually come to the truth not practice “Hinduism”[/B]
It is actually great if they do become Hindu, if the world becomes Hindu we will have a much more enlightened world.
[B]It would actually be great if everyone practied yoga we would have a much more enlightened world
[/B]
However, I do not believe in deception, nobody should be deceived into becoming a Hindu. They need to be told from the outset what they are getting themselves involved in, what is the history, cultural context and philosophy of Yoga so they can make an informed decision.
[B]There you go again.[/B]
No, because my statement was that one is not practicing meditation unless they reach pratyhara.
[B]Depends on your definition of meditation. You can use lower mind system to engender qualities -through habituation of the object. [/B]
You can do the previous steps if you want, I mean why not? They will do a great deal of good and prepare you for meditation. I am not here to tell people what to do or what not to do. I am simply telling the truth that the practice they call meditation is not meditation and they are wasting their time.
[B]They are not wasting their time. Don’t be so hoity toity. I.e. Vain. Tedious. Arrogant. [/B]
Instead, I am telling them the truth that if they want to go to the advanced stages of Yoga(meditation) that they will need to first master the prelimary stages which they can do at their own pace.
[B]Preposterous. They don’t have to master lower branches to enter meditation. They don’t have to master all the asanas, all the kumbhakas, all the bandhas and mudras to get the mind into meditation. [/B]
One thing is very clear though Yoga is a very serious spiritual path and does require dedication. The more intense your practice the faster you will reach the goal of becoming a god.
[B]BECOMMING A GOD!!! LOL. Now Indra may disagree but I think being a yogi is better than being a deva. How can Indra help those who need it if he’s stuck in a heavenly abode? Hmmm? [/B]
At this moment I am like you and others, I do not have an intense practice, I do whatever I can which obviously makes some difference, but at the end of the year I am going to India to find a master and then completely dedicate myself to his Yoga. Then I will have a very intense practice. I am very serious about spirituality.
If you indeed are reaching pratyhara by “meditation” you are doing right now just ignore what I am saying. However, if you are not reaching it, then you would be wise to listen to my advice. It is unmistakeable you will experience a complete black out of the senses and experience very vivid visions.
[B]You do not know of what you speak… Stop playing.[/B]
If you’ve had this experience then whatever you are doing is working. If you’re not had this experience or barely have had it, then whatever you are doing is not working and you need to do something different.
Mental training is just like any other other training. You need to monitor your progress constantly and measure your gains.
[I]To lighten things up and make Yoga sound a bit ridiculous. Yoga is training to become a superhuman god-like being with superpowers [/I]
[B]If thats your goal. You go onto it then. [/B]
:D[/QUOTE]
You can take Yoga out of Hinduism but you cannot take Hinduism out of Yoga. They are inextricably linked. First and foremost Yoga is a Sanskrit word and Sanskrit is the spiritual language of Hinduism. Secondly, Yoga is developed in Hindu India. The word Hindu refers to the way of life of the people of the Indus. Thirdly, the entire philosophy of yoga is about reaching self-realization and realising atman and braman. This the core doctrine of all Hindu scriptures(Vedas, Upanishads, Gita, Yoga Vasistha, Yogasutras, tantras). Fourthly, the most reverred scriptures of Hindus, the Bhagvad Gita, is a treatise on Yoga and lord Krishna is known as the lord of Yoga. Fifthly, Yoga is also inextricably linked with other Hindu concepts karma, dharma, reincarnation, moksha.
I mean who you are kidding by saying Yoga is not Hindu. It is definitely Hindu. It does not matter if it was being practiced all over creation since the beginning of time. It is still Hindu which is the religion of eternal laws(santana dharma) Yogs is as much Hindu as capitalism is Western.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;32925]You can take Yoga out of Hinduism but you cannot take Hinduism out of Yoga. They are inextricably linked. First and foremost Yoga is a Sanskrit word and Sanskrit is the spiritual language of Hinduism. Secondly, Yoga is developed in Hindu India. The word Hindu refers to the way of life of the people of the Indus. Thirdly, the entire philosophy of yoga is about reaching self-realization and realising atman and braman. This the core doctrine of all Hindu scriptures(Vedas, Upanishads, Gita, Yoga Vasistha, Yogasutras, tantras. Fourthly, the most reverred scriptures of Hindus, the Bhagvad Gita, is a treatise on Yoga. Fifthly, Yoga is also inextricably linked with other Hindu concepts karma, dharma, reincarnation, moksha.
I mean who you are kidding by saying Yoga is not Hindu. It is definitely Hindu. It does not matter if it was being practiced all over creation since the beginning of time. It is still Hindu which is the religion of eternal laws(santana dharma)[/QUOTE]
It’s yoga. not Hinduism.
Buddhists practice yoga.
Taoist have thier yogas.
Beings in other galaxies have their yoga.
Its called yoga, or whatever they call it. They don’t call it hinduism.
Lol.
Buelller?
Bueller? I’m gonna go do some hinduism!
karma? Just a word to describe truth. How bout that?
Moksah? Just a word to describe truth.
dhama? Just a word to describe truth.
Truth? Just a word to describe truth.
Maya. Just a word…
To insinuate that Hindus made yoga is RETARDED.
They give it names.
I have nothing against Hindus. In fact some time ago I was considered “Hindu” Ahem…
Vedanta is simply a study of what is. They give it all kinds of names.
Taoism is simply a study of what is. They give it all kinds of names.
But to claim Hindu means yoga or that they are synonomous is preposterous.
You didn’t address my points. I’ll have you know. I got my eye on you.
You keep stepping out of line and I’ll be on you like stink on a skunk.
You got lots of learning. Get rid of all this learning. Too much pride at all your “Knowledge” Blinds you it does!!!
I love you.
Surya Deva
[I]This is my last post to you. If you don’t listen to what I write now, I really won’t bother trying to help you again.[/I]
[B]Here is [U]why[/U] you should listen to me:[/B]
- I have been studying yoga seriously, daily, diligently, (not like you, as you admit, “I do not have an intense practice”) for almost 20 years!
- I have been a teacher of yoga - [B]full time[/B] - for over 10 years, and must have taught 10,000 students on almost every continent.
- I am qualified as a teacher to the highest degree in one of the most widely respected lineages, with the title Acharya, which means master.
- I have studied Sanskrit, many of the yogic scriptures, and in depth theory of all aspects of yoga, including Bhakti, Jnana, Hatha, Raja, Karma yoga.
- My experiences include meditation for extensive periods of time without breathing.
[B]Here is [U]the only thing I want to convey to you[/U], the rest is unimportant:[/B]
Don’t go to India looking for a Guru with Siddhis. Please don’t. You are setting yourself up for a big fall my friend. Any ‘Guru’ who displays Siddhis for the sake of attracting a disciple or student is nothing but a charlatan. You will waste time and energy. Now, that may be your destiny, in which case you will not listen to me, you will go to India, and you will find your ‘Guru’, for sure. You will then learn the hard way. If you want to waste this lifetime on that path, it’s so very easy…
I wonder if you will finally listen to some sense now…
There is a place for display of siddhis.
Let him fulfill his desire!
Hey scales what I find hilarious is how you call everything that are recognised as the core beliefs and practices of Hinduism(karma, reincarnation, dharma, moksha, yoga) the truth. So in other words you are calling Hinduism the truth 
The rest is just semantics.
Even Hindus do not claim Hindusim is an an Indian religion. They say it is a cosmological religion an eternal religion. So of course people in other galaxies will be practicing it as well
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck it is a duck. Yoga is based on Hindu language, Hindu philosophy, Hindu scriptures, Hindu authorities(Krishna, Shiva) and Hindu scriptures. I am sorry but pretend all you want, Yoga is Hinduism.
Transcends name and form.
Quack. Quack. Quack.
Your getting it. YES!!!
On alpha centaurie’s planet m.nyghtshamalanabingbong they call it the force. They claim to have made it up. They give it all these weird names. Morons. Dont’ they know it’s called padmasana not star form? Made up by a thin betel skinned man in India? He should have patened it. Then we’d know for sure.
The yoga is eternally public domain. I’ve said my peace.
Feel free to have the last word though.
We are saying pretty much the same thing, only using different names. It does not matter what they call it on another planet it still refers to the same eternal religion that we call Hinduism on Earth.
I never said Hinduism only belonged to Indians did I? It belongs to everybody. However, it is still Hinduism no matter what name you call it by. Hinduism is defined by its philosophy and practice, which you call the “truth” What did you think Hindusim was? I never said Hinduism belonged to India. Indians simply discovered it and have preserved it.
[B]Here is [U]the only thing I want to convey to you[/U], the rest is unimportant:[/B]
Don’t go to India looking for a Guru with Siddhis. Please don’t. You are setting yourself up for a big fall my friend. Any ‘Guru’ who displays Siddhis for the sake of attracting a disciple or student is nothing but a charlatan. You will waste time and energy. Now, that may be your destiny, in which case you will not listen to me, you will go to India, and you will find your ‘Guru’, for sure. You will then learn the hard way. If you want to waste this lifetime on that path, it’s so very easy…
I wonder if you will finally listen to some sense now…
I respect your credentials and experience. I want to clarify to you I am not looking for just a guru who has siddhis, but a guru who can help me develop spiritually as well. The siddhis are important as a mark that the guru has reached the higher levels of Yoga. Please do not worry I will use my discernment and I am a very good judge of character. I am not so superficial as to be seduced by somebody who only has siddhis but has no spirituality.
The real guru is the the one that will help me realise my highest potentials and put me in touch with my self.
Look to your left. Look to your right. There they are.
Best of luck Surya. Happy travels.
om shanti,
siva
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;32934]We are saying pretty much the same thing, only using different names. It does not matter what they call it on another planet it still refers to the same eternal religion that we call Hinduism on Earth.
I never said Hinduism only belonged to Indians did I? It belongs to everybody. However, it is still Hinduism no matter what name you call it by. Hinduism is defined by its philosophy and practice, which you call the “truth” What did you think Hindusim was? I never said Hinduism belonged to India. Indians simply discovered it and have preserved it.[/QUOTE]
When someone says Hinduism don’t they think of Vishnu, and Brahma, and Krishna and all this? The Rituals they don’t understand? and on and on. All the different cults, sects, and so on? THere’s A LOT TO IT. Its very rich. I love hinduism/sanatana dharma/vedanta
American Tourists in India infront of Temple of Shiva:
“Ron why are they screwing?”
Now I know what they represent. I know this is good indian imagination and cunning.
The Term “Hinduism” scares people away. They might think oh I’m not going to practice yoga cause Vishnu will posess me. No way. Dude. Jesus is the guy for me.
I don’t worship RAM!!!
Who is this Ram?
You feeling me?
Yoga is Universal. Claiming it’s hindu is preposterous and secretarian. Sure they may have developed, and or REDISCOVERED certain techniques., but it has always been. It belongs to no one. It is for all.
For all peoples benefit. When you start piping off about how yoga will make people hindu you will scare them off.
You do them a disservice. Those who’ve turned their back on the yoga . . . due to indiscrimination. Who knows when they will find it again?
Why would you want to do that?
Vedanta is good Name.
Sanatana Dharma is Good name.
Hinduism has “negative” connotations for many people. Especially here in capitalist Christian America. You dig?
I can strip all of hinduism out of yoga and it would still be yoga.
Don’t be secretarin. Don’t be elitest. The yoga is for everyone.
[QUOTE=The Scales;32926]I love you.[/QUOTE]
Once upon a time, there was a little boy who felt alone. So he took his books and went to play with other children. He put the books all around the playground and sat looking what will happen. But other children didn’t like it and started to push the books around and even started to walk away. And the boy was very sad…
[QUOTE=omamana;32859]Can you please elaborate on this?[/QUOTE] the man with one book becomes a know it all and anyone with a different book becomes wrong and inferior
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;32935].
The real guru is the the one that will help me realise my highest potentials and put me in touch with my self.[/QUOTE]
lift up your hand, now smack yourself in the face. Now first of all that is a miracle, anything that happens is a miracle. second of all you are now in touch with your self. repeat as necessarry.
PS. my yoga mat is still bigger