What's Samadhi for?

Mindfulness Meditation
#81

There is nothing made up about it. You are reacting like a religious person does when you tell them something which goes against their beliefs. I am telling you clearly the mind is its own plane of reality. You don’t own it anymore than you own the physical world. It is your belief that you do. It is not supported by facts. We even have scientific evidence now that the mind is its own plane of reality.

Like I told you before if the mind was not its own plane of reality why can’t we find somebodies thoughts, memories, feelings in the physical world? Why can’t I split open your brain and find your mental life? The logical answer(not your forte I know) is that it is not in the physical plane of reality. It is in another plane. Heck even modern science agrees there are other planes of reality which are supersensible.

You are not going to like this but you are just as guilty of faith as any other religious person. You believe in materialism. Fair enough, but it’s still a belief dawg.

#82

[quote=YogiAdam;33139]A Christian would claim exactly the same thing, and there would be ZERO reason to believe them any less.[/quote] And this proves what. Oh, christianity is the black sheep, comparing anything to it means it’s worthless. I get it now. :slight_smile:

#83

[QUOTE=Hubert;33166]And this proves what. Oh, christianity is the black sheep, comparing anything to it means it’s worthless. I get it now. :)[/QUOTE]

lol no no I was just saying that every religion thinks they have the truth, yet they all believe contradictory ideas.

#84

When it comes to logic you cannot beat me. I am a very powerful Jnana yogi(intellectual yogi) and have mastered philosophy, or very close to mastering it.

I provided these arguments to you in another thread. I dare you to show me where the logic is faulty. You will not be able to.

  1. The physical world is simply the 5 sense world. The mind exists in the 6th sense world where such entities like thoughts, desires and emotions exist. If the mind existed in the 5 sense world then I would be able to measure thoughts. No, I cannot measure thoughts, I can only measure the effects of thoughts. If I look at you with my 5 senses I do not see any evidence of you having a mind. The reason I know you have a mind is because of my 6th sense of mind.

  2. All things in the world begin very minute and subtle and then they become massive and gross. It makes absolutely no logical sense that a non-physical entity like mind would come after hard, physical solid matter, because it is far more minute, subtle, invisible in fact. So logic tells me that the mind has to precede physical matter.

  3. It is clear that all effects have causes and we cannot see causes. We can only know effects. The entire world of perception is therefore an effect and what is the actual cause of it is therefore different to the world of perception. It only looks massive and solid to me in perception when it in fact it cannot be massive and solid.

#85

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33165]
You are not going to like this but you are just as guilty of faith as any other religious person. You believe in materialism. Fair enough, but it’s still a belief dawg.[/QUOTE]

It’s actually a lack of belief… unless you call ‘not believing in unicorns’ a belief. You could also call ‘not collecting stamps’ a hobby while your at it, or you could call ‘bald’, a hair colour.

#86

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33168]When it comes to logic you cannot beat me. I am a very powerful Jnana yogi(intellectual yogi) and have mastered philosophy, or very close to mastering it.[/QUOTE]

AAAAAAHHHHHAHAHAHAHAH!!! That’s hilarious!! I dare you to use this as a pick up line!!! I dare you to tell everyone you meet this!! Thank you so much. I haven’t laughed so hard in a long time.:grin::grin::grin:

#87

Are you talking about Big Bang ? Even a provincial physics teacher will tell you that it’s a [B]theory[/B], and not [B]The Truth[/B].

It’s just something you like to [B]beleive in, [/B]as it’s the main fashion of thought these days.
I did have a conversation with a physics teacher talking about the Higgs boson. I am not dwelling into detalis now, yet we somehow arrived to the Big Bang theory and how astronomy wanted to know the actual speed of the Universe’s inflation. Based on the existing knowledge about the mass of the known Universe and this speed of dilation we could determine wheter this inflation will last forever, at an ever decreasing speed, or, it would come to a halt and a the process would reverse into a collapse of increasing speeds.
Yet what is interesting and noone expected, is that the Universe is apparently inflating with an increasing speed ! An this fits our current models only if we assume the existence of the so called dark matter, what we do not know anything about, yet it should make 80 % of the whole mass. Basicly, this say, we have theories about 20 % of the universe. Not even knowledge, but theories. Just by a quantitative analysis (which is of course an imperfect one) we can affirm that basicly we know next to nothing. Any self respecting scientist will tell you this in his domain.

The research science does is most important and valuable. Only it’s conclusions are lacking, but those do that by a lot. That’s why I like sometimes to call science just another cult, and the very offense the followers of these people suffer is shockingly similar to the mad bigotry of some religious organisations dealing with their opponents.

PS. To make it simple, I do not subscribe and believe in Big Bang, biogenesis, darwinian evolution, survival of the fittest, and none of the materialist scientific theories what are all forced, and forged having the fear of their propagators to recognise the spiritual element of the world, one existing and manifesting in their own psyches. Yes I do belive in another form of genesis what makes at least as much sense, and it relates to human life much better and on more levels than these impersonal universal theories. I am sure you do not know about it though, and because it does not fit this media, I am not saying about it anything. Just that there is an alternative, what, it’s true, takes at least that much intellectual effort to be comprehensed as the ruling scientific theories, and sadly one that’s not really known not because it’s not there for the taking but because the lack of ability on most people’s part to take it.
Yes, the universe makes sense in all it’s aspects, all conflicts are generated by the imperfect intellect. But the intellect can be perfected, and extended by the use of other psychic tools.

#88

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;33169]It’s actually a lack of belief… unless you call ‘not believing in unicorns’ a belief. You could also call ‘not collecting stamps’ a hobby while your at it, or you could call ‘bald’, a hair colour.[/QUOTE]

This is complete rubbish you have many beliefs, and I can point them all out.

You believe other minds exist: You only have evidence for your own mind through your 6th sense of mind. You have no evidence that the bodies of people have minds. You simply believe it(A famous argument by Betrand Russel)

You believe there is an independent world out there for you play in. However, there would be no world out there if you were not conscious to perceive it. You simply believe it is independent of your consciousness(A famous argument by Edmund husserl known as the “natural assumption”)

You believe your mind is caused by your brain. How do you know this? You don’t. You simply believe it. Philosophers of mind have not been able to prove the brain causes the mind and call it the hard problem of consciousness(a problem coined by the famous philosopher of mind David Chalmers)

You believe the all of reality is made of out physical matter. Then how do you explain what mind is made of? It is not reducible to any physical matter. Do we just pretend it does not exist?

You believe in empiricism. You believe this is the only right way of collecting knowledge. When there are so many other ways of collecting knowledge(qualitative research methods and rational methods)

The technical names for some your beliefs are: realism, materialism and epiphenomenalism and empiricism.

You assert your beliefs as if they are the truth. So you are also guilty of dogma.

#89

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;33170]AAAAAAHHHHHAHAHAHAHAH!!! That’s hilarious!! I dare you to use this as a pick up line!!! I dare you to tell everyone you meet this!! Thank you so much. I haven’t laughed so hard in a long time.:grin::grin::grin:[/QUOTE]

I find it rather sad. Because its not a joke. Thinking about causes leading to such statements and its consequences in life seems to me bit sad :frowning:

#90

I suppose your right. I used to be a support worker for people with chronic Schizophrenia, so I should be a bit more sensitive to issues like this.

#91

[QUOTE=Hubert;33172]Are you talking about Big Bang ? Even a provincial physics teacher will tell you that it’s a [B]theory[/B], and not [B]The Truth[/B].

It’s just something you like to [B]beleive in, [/B]as it’s the main fashion of thought these days.[/quote]

Thanks Hubert. Yep, and that is indeed another belief, believing that theories are the truth. There are so many different theories in physics, which one is exactly the truth? Classical physics? Quantum mechanics?(multiple world theory, copenhagen interpretation) String Theory, holographic theory.

I love it when materialists claim they have no beliefs lol

#92

And this does not automatically prove that they are all wrong. It might mean that our intellect fails in unifying them in a manner where all their truths fit unharmed and still make sense on a higher scale. Which I like to beliveve is the case. If only we’d be better prepared to admit the limits of our intellect, than we might find sooner ways to push these limits out.

PS. Sorry for being too defensive. I am a christian. I often see persecution where there is none. Which makes me wonder about jews. They really must have a hard time.

#93

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;33175]I suppose your right. I used to be a support worker for people with chronic Schizophrenia, so I should be a bit more sensitive to issues like this.[/QUOTE]

And there you have it violence against another person because their viewpoint does not conform to your own. What you said above is no different to the Christians first landing in the pagan lands and feeling sympathy for them because they did not know the “truth”. And you say you are not a religious believer and have no faith? :wink: You are full of it mate. You are just as dogmatic, faithful and condescending as the Christians you love to hate

#94

Yes, I am sorry to confirm this as a christian. You non-christian guys are pretty much fubared, lol.

Come on, it’s not this simple. :slight_smile:

#95

[QUOTE=Hubert;33179]Yes, I am sorry to confirm this as a christian. You non-christian guys are pretty much fubared, lol.

Come on, it’s not this simple. :)[/QUOTE]

:stuck_out_tongue:

Yeah, fortunately many modern Chrisitians do not think like this. It is still a big dogma in orthodox Catholic Christianity though.

#96

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33178]And there you have it violence against another person because their viewpoint does not conform to your own.[/QUOTE]

violence

Pronunciation:/ˈvʌɪəl(ə)ns/
noun
[mass noun]
1 behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something

There you go. A free english lesson :smiley:

#97

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;33184]violence

Pronunciation:/ˈvʌɪəl(ə)ns/
noun
[mass noun]
1 behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something

There you go. A free english lesson :D[/QUOTE]

There is something called mental violence where one abuses somebody verbally designed to hurt or damage them. Don’t worry, I am not so fragile, to be hurt by your attempt at violence against me :smiley: I just find it hilarious though how much it exposes your religious tendencies.

It is said that if you dislike something it reflects something about you. Your dislike for religion(mainly Christianity) is your own dislike for your own religious tendencies :wink:

#98

Three very common traits of a religious believer

  1. Intolerance. Intolerance for contrary beliefs. This often leads to verbal or physical violence.
  2. Irrationality. A refusal to consider or look at any evidence or arguments which contradict ones beliefs
  3. Dogma. The belief that ones beliefs are right and self-evident. They are not open to any kind of questioning.

You fit the bill dawg :wink: So does Pawel, but Pawel openly accepts he is religious and wants to keep religion and science apart forever(typical catholic lol) You on the other hand pretend you are not, when your actions speak volumes to the contrary.

#99

Yeah, fortunately many modern Chrisitians do not think like this. It is still a big dogma in orthodox Catholic Christianity though.[/quote]

And I too do believe it’s true. Just that to comprehend it one needs to raise his spirit above religious, national or geographical apartenance. And one needs more than eastern wisdom. The universality of the christian message does not mean that christians are better than non-christians. There should be no difference between a true human being and a true christian. There should be no difference between a true human being and a true yogi. But this does not make yoga and christianity equal. It does not make any of them better than the other. It definitley does not make one of them true and the other one false.

Rather, both are true, down to the last sentence. Yes. How can that be ? Now this is what all of us should be concerned with.

#100

[QUOTE=Hubert;33191]And I too do believe it’s true. Just that to comprehend it one needs to raise his spirit above religious, national or geographical apartenance. And one needs more than eastern wisdom. The universality of the christian message does not mean that christians are better than non-christians. There should be no difference between a true human being and a true christian. There should be no difference between a true human being and a true yogi. But this does not make yoga and christianity equal. It does not make any of them better than the other. It definitley does not make one of them true and the other one false.

Rather, both are true, down to the last sentence. Yes. How can that be ? Now this is what all of us should be concerned with.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, the science of spirituality and the universal truths has remained the same. Throughout the ages various masters have instructed humanity in this science the Vedic Risis, Krishna, Mahavira, Buddha, Lao-Tzu, Shankara, Confuscius, Shamans, Druids, Jesus, Babaji, Guru Nanak, Kabir, Ramakrishna, Yogananda, Ramana Maharishi and countless mystics and sages.

The problem starts with the natural human tendency for secetarianism where they want to believe either one of them is more right than the other and their path is more right than the other. As is the case with so many misguided Christians who think Jesus is the only way and simply accepting him as their lord and saviour is enough for salvation. When humans begin to care more about the author than the actual message that is when they go astray.

The message is simple you can be just as great as these masters if you awaken the potentials within you through spiritual practice(some form of Yoga)