[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;33283]I don’t believe expanding on this one makes it more digestible. Blame and fault in yoga are pointless folly. Evolving through the practice can only come through the work of taking full responsibility for one’s living. Otherwise the work is placed on someone else rather than one’s self.[/QUOTE]
Yeah brother, we start here and now.
[quote=Brother Neil;32994]Kind of along the lines of citymonks thread of dealing with difficult people. So if we take the difficult person she is referring to as an example, whos fault is it that the person is that way? If this person grew up around parents that were cursing and negative all the time would you expect citymonks best friend to be any different? Can you blame the parents, or did her parents have parents and those parents have parents, etc… that raised their children this way. How much do you feel it is the individuals responsibility and how much do you feel rests on the shoulders of the one before?
best to you
Brother Neil[/quote]
Hallo Br Neil,
I have friend, he grew up in an abusive home with alcoholic parents, was sexually molested several times by various uncles and cousins in the family. Bullied at school because he is extremely effiminate (and yes gay) and he grew up extremely poor as one of 13 children with social services moving him and his other siblings around from this home to that and back again, no stability. When he finished school he left his home and moved to a big city, got a job and started to uplift himself. Today he is a respected and learned doctor at one of SA’s largest and internationally renowned universities.
I think blame is very difficult to ascribe here, there are too many factors that also play a role such as education, social status, political and personal will etc. In my country I see many previously disadvantaged individuals who grab every opportunity they get under our new government and they make a success, they change. For other previously disadvantaged individuals opportunity is presented on a plate and they still make a mess of it. Who’s to blame?
[QUOTE=Pandara;33416]For other previously disadvantaged individuals opportunity is presented on a plate and they still make a mess of it. Who’s to blame?[/QUOTE]
I think lotusgirl and I have both answered that. If you say that either parent and environment OR individual and their own actions are to blame. You’ve created a false dichotomy. It’s great to hear how you friend was able to contribute to improving his external conditions, but that doesn’t mean that this isolated example can apply to everyone. There are far too many variable to come to a ‘black and white’ conclusion on this issue.
And I never said that it could or should apply to everyone, my friend is just an example and I trust that someone who might read it might be inspired by it.
I think what I am trying to say is yes I agree it is not just a simple “black and white” conclusion, it is more than that, perhaps my reply isn’t clear enough about this, but that was what I intended to convey.
[QUOTE=Pandara;33419]perhaps my reply isn’t clear enough about this, but that was what I intended to convey.[/QUOTE]
either that, or I missed your point. 
Sorry YogiAdam, but which part of this sentence in my first reply is actually telling you that I see this as a one-sided “black and white” issue, I think I am quite clear about my intention that there are many, many, many factors that play a role of which I only named a few, but there are much more than those few.
[QUOTE=Pandara;33423]Sorry YogiAdam, but which part of this sentence in my first reply is actually telling you that I see this as a one-sided “black and white” issue, I think I am quite clear about my intention that there are many, many, many factors that play a role of which I only named a few, but there are much more than those few.[/QUOTE]
Yeah that’s what I was saying. That I may have missed your point. I’m a bit lazy, so sometimes I skim over what people are saying too quickly.
[QUOTE=YogiAdam;33425]Yeah that’s what I was saying. That I may have missed your point. I’m a bit lazy, so sometimes I skim over what people are saying too quickly.[/QUOTE]
Or compose insults.
I must say I envy your life 
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33426]I must say I envy your life ;)[/QUOTE]
Well I am 32 and have a gorgeous 19 year old girlfriend
19 hey, you sure do pick them young? Trying to hold onto something, eh
[QUOTE=Pandara;33416]Hallo Br Neil,
I have friend, he grew up in an abusive home with alcoholic parents, was sexually molested several times by various uncles and cousins in the family. Bullied at school because he is extremely effiminate (and yes gay) and he grew up extremely poor as one of 13 children with social services moving him and his other siblings around from this home to that and back again, no stability. When he finished school he left his home and moved to a big city, got a job and started to uplift himself. Today he is a respected and learned doctor at one of SA’s largest and internationally renowned universities.
I think blame is very difficult to ascribe here, there are too many factors that also play a role such as education, social status, political and personal will etc. In my country I see many previously disadvantaged individuals who grab every opportunity they get under our new government and they make a success, they change. For other previously disadvantaged individuals opportunity is presented on a plate and they still make a mess of it. Who’s to blame?[/QUOTE]
Very well said Pandara.
The entire word blame is just inappropriate.
In the end it is we are who are responsible for our life and nobody else. Whatever kind of life we want to lead is our choice.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33428]19 hey, you sure do pick them young? Trying to hold onto something, eh ;)[/QUOTE]
We’ll I find youthfulness very attractive, as do many, many men. Youthfulness to men, is what wealth is to many women.
[QUOTE=YogiAdam;33414]It’s not science! If it is, then so is ‘Christian Science’. Read my lips SCIENCE WITH AN AGENDA, IS NOT SCIENCE. Scientist want to be wrong, because when they have discovered they have been wrong, then they know they have learnt something. You desperately crave being right all the time. That’s why you not a scientist. Your just inadequate.[/QUOTE]
All science has an agenda you silly billy. Scientific discoveries take a really long time to be accepted because they must be approved by peer groups. Do you know how long it took for the scientific community to accept Einstein’s discoveries on the photoelectric effect? About 20 years. Scientists also are known to fudge data if the data is not what it is expected to be. Today, scientists no longer work independently, but are employed by huge organizations which fund research into agendas the organizations want to push. Such as the recent climate change propoganda.
You sound so young. You have done really well for 32. I could have sworn you were 18
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33431]You sound so young. You have done really well for 32. I could have sworn you were 18 ;)[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t start talking about maturity after saying…
Originally Posted by Surya Deva
you cannot beat me. I am a very powerful Jnana yogi(intellectual yogi) and have mastered philosophy, or very close to mastering it.
Even an 18 year old would laugh at the absurdity, childish nature of that.
So everything what is happening to us (including the family we are born in) depends only on our deeds.
Not entirely on our deeds.
If you are going to use the theory of karma then also be aware that there are three kinds of karma: 1) sanchita karma 2) prabrdha karma and 3) kryiamana karma.
Sanchita karma is our whole storehouse of karmas stored in our causal body as potentials known as samskaras. These will all be triggered at some point based on the stimulus presented in life. However, it is not completely necessary that all your samskaras will be triggered, because it is possible to burn a samskara completely through tapas(austerity, meditation, repentence)
such that it may only just manifest within your dream or as a mental experience rather than manifest in the body or world.
Prabrdha karma is when the samskaras have released their potential and it is only a matter of time before this karma manifests in the body or in the world. This karma because it has been unleased will take place no matter what, however you can still weaken its effects based on what you do here and now.
Kriyamana karma is by far the most important type of karma and is what prevents the theory of karma degenerating into fatalism. It is the karma you do in the here and now and it is potentially the most powerful of all karmas. You can completely erase what you have done in the past, irrespective of how bad it was through your current actions, and if you do not succeed to erase, whatever good you are doing now will dampen the effects of your past karmas.
There is a very wonderful story I read to illustrate this. There was this very pious, compassionate and good man and he had a friend who was naughty, selfish and a bad man. One day they set out together for a trek in the fields and they both decided to go different ways and meet at a point. When they converged back the bad man was very elated and had a pot of gold in his hands and the good man was distressed and had a horrible puncture and wound in his foot and was still in pain. They good man asks the bad man about the pot of gold his his hands, “When I left you, after a mile I saw this shimmer in the distance, I went to investigate and to my absolute shock, there was a pot of gold! There is so much here I am now rich! Yes!” He then turned to the good man and asked him about his foot. The good man responds, “When I left you, after a mile walking on the ground, I stepped onto this protroduing spike in the ground which punctured my foot, it was the most excruciating pain I have ever had” When the good man got home, still distressed over what had happened he went to his guru and asked, “How could it be that my friend who is a bad person would find such happiness and I who am such a good person find such misery” The guru answered, "Dear one, I know about your past karmas and your friends past karma. In his previous life he was a saint he did some very good and chariable things, but in this life he had done the opposite, so he was awarded for the sum of his chariable things with a pot of gold in this life. You, on the other hand, have done some horrible things in your past lives, you were a dacoit and you murdered innocent people. However, in this life you have redeemed yourself by your noble actions, so the entire sum total of the horrible things you had done have manifested in this one incident. You are now free from all that karma you incurred.
So the bad man who was a saint in his previous lives ruined all his good progress and got nothing more than a pot of gold as a reward for it. Whereas the good person who was a dacoit in his previous lives redeemed himself from all the horrible things he had done and got nothing but a spike in his foot as a consequence for it.
This is why what you do in the here and now is of paramount importance. Stop thinking about what you did in the past no matter how henious it was. It is the present that matters. Whatever you did will be resolved in one way or the other by the law of karma, dont worry about that, because it is not in your hands. You can make a difference to your future life by what you do in the here and now.
[QUOTE=YogiAdam;33433]I wouldn’t start talking about maturity after saying…
Originally Posted by Surya Deva
you cannot beat me. I am a very powerful Jnana yogi(intellectual yogi) and have mastered philosophy, or very close to mastering it.
Even an 18 year old would laugh at the absurdity, childish nature of that.[/QUOTE]
My dear grasshopper
Having confidence and pride in your own accomplishments is not immature. However, going out of your way to insult people on internet forums and being too lazy to read what others are saying but still responding to them, and boasting of your 19 year old girlfriend when she is not even being discussed bespeaks of your mental age very strongly.
In the future please stick to what is being discussed. I don’t think many people here are interested in your girlfriend and nor are we interested in your insults. This is a Yoga forum not a teen forum.
[QUOTE=Pandara;33416]Hallo Br Neil,
I have friend, he grew up in an abusive home with alcoholic parents, was sexually molested several times by various uncles and cousins in the family. Bullied at school because he is extremely effiminate (and yes gay) and he grew up extremely poor as one of 13 children with social services moving him and his other siblings around from this home to that and back again, no stability. When he finished school he left his home and moved to a big city, got a job and started to uplift himself. Today he is a respected and learned doctor at one of SA’s largest and internationally renowned universities.
I think blame is very difficult to ascribe here, there are too many factors that also play a role such as education, social status, political and personal will etc. In my country I see many previously disadvantaged individuals who grab every opportunity they get under our new government and they make a success, they change. For other previously disadvantaged individuals opportunity is presented on a plate and they still make a mess of it. Who’s to blame?[/QUOTE]
seems like a challenging situation, and good for him to make the best of it. What he went through I dont know that anyone deserves that and i could care less about his karma from a past life
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33388]Just to add: There a very few Hindus as learned as me that can give you such a precise explanation. I am one of the most knowledable Hindus out there. Even Hindu Phd’s and priests are impressed with the depth and breadth of my knowledge, and Hindus I meet are in awe of how much I know. This is all thanks to the extensive jnana yoga sadhana I have done. Like I said before I am a very powerful Jnana yogi. I have learned by studying the works of the greatest(Kapila, Sankara,Swami Krishnananda, Swami Dayananda, Swami Vivekanda and many other greats)
It may seem to be very pedantic to demand such hair splitting accuracy of terms, but the more precise you can be(as every scientist will know) the less the room for error and distortion. The biggest failing of Western philosophy and religion has been the extreme ambiguity and lack of precision with words. Fortunately, in the Vedic world the dangers of ambiguity was recognised and this is why Sanskrit was created. There is still no language in the world that is a match for Sanskrit.
Stick to the Sanskrit when you read the classical works. English translations will destroy the meaning.
There is no science higher than Vedic science. It is the science of a superhuman civilisation. Advanced
planets in our universe are using Vedic science.[/QUOTE]
I’m impressed by what you say. You keep rockin on!
I agree with you on the Sanskrit. I wish I knew it. Because I feel so much is lost in translation. From my understanding. It’s like the perfect language, and simply crushes engrish.
Do you have a birthday comming up?
I’m also gonna have to side with you on the Lotusgirl Vs. Surya Deva Yoga sutra competition.
Ego is important. Or else why would God dream it uP? If no ego then apathy. No pride. No doing. Worlds gotta work.
I think some wisdom is realization of just what ego is. Identification with ego accrues karma correct? No identification no accrual? LOL.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33436]My dear grasshopper
Having confidence and pride in your own accomplishments is not immature. However, going out of your way to insult people on internet forums and being too lazy to read what others are saying but still responding to them, and boasting of your 19 year old girlfriend when she is not even being discussed bespeaks of your mental age very strongly.
In the future please stick to what is being discussed. I don’t think many people here are interested in your girlfriend and nor are we interested in your insults. This is a Yoga forum not a teen forum.[/QUOTE]
Go fuck yourself you sad lonely retard!
[QUOTE=The Scales;33439]I’m impressed by what you say. You keep rockin on!
I agree with you on the Sanskrit. I wish I knew it. Because I feel so much is lost in translation. From my understanding. It’s like the perfect language, and simply crushes engrish.
Do you have a birthday comming up?[/QUOTE]
Namaste, no, my birthday has passed.
English is not even in competition. If there is any other language in the world that you could put second to Sanskrit, that would be German. These are highly inflected and technical languages. I met many German speakers who also complain about how ambigious English is. There is of course a massive gap between Sanskrit and German. Sanskrit in fact is even more precise than formal computer languages. It has been compared to machine code.
The current search in computer science and artificial intelligence is to develop a natural language that we can use to interface with machines but the the machine can understand formally as well. The only language in the world that is both a formal machine language and a natural language is Sanskrit and hence why Sanskrit is being studied extensively by computer scientists.
There is no doubt about it that the entire Vedic civilisation is a superhuman civilisation. There are no parallels even to this very day for the great Vedic scientists. The secret to his genius is revealed by Sri Aurobindo: their education system. Their education system was not like ours where we would bombard underdeveloped minds with facts and fictures over several years. Their education system was developing and expanding every faculty we have(body, mind, intellect, intuition) through the science of Yoga. Such that their learning, attention and thinking abilities underwent a quantum leap. For such a realised mind what would take several years of study for an underdeveloped mind would take a few days for them. This is how they could develop a language like Sanskrit which still boggles the minds of todays computer scientists and linguists. If we could measure their IQ it would probably be in the 1000+ range.