[QUOTE=Yulaw;48124]Sorry… I shall now Kowtow and crawl out of the room backwards whilst Kowtowing :D[/QUOTE]
I know the story of Vashista and the Vasus. I know how they attempted to steal Nandini and Vashista cursed them to be reborn. I, unlike you, have actually read legitiamte translations of the Mahabharata and know such stories (not you Yulaw, the white supremacist you quoted).
[QUOTE=Nietzsche;48127]I did say that the cow was very important to the livelihood of Hindus back then.
I did not question Gandhi’s view.
Yes, I know it is the carrier of Shiva. I know the stories of Kamandhenu (also known as Surabhi) and Nandini. And one of the temples that my family loves to go to has a statue of Nandini. I myself prayed to her many times when I was a child.
But that wasn’t the point of the post. I was talking about the tendency of impressionable Hindus to worship them as deities (which theoretically they can be). Not that it is an inherently bad thing; it is just unnecessary and such forms of Bhakti Hinduism have done more harm than good.
I have never heard of that interpretation of the bull. Perhaps you are thinking of another sect of Hinduism.[/QUOTE]
Actaully I said “the past” not “back then” and only becuase I am not exactly sure of what is currently going on in India beyond a tech boom
[QUOTE=Yulaw;48131]Actaully I said “the past” not “back then” and only becuase I am not exactly sure of what is currently going on in India beyond a tech boom[/QUOTE]
When I said back then, I was referring to ancient times when such customs were formulated. The cow is still an important part of Indian society in rural areas, but even then, less so than it once was.
[QUOTE=Nietzsche;48127]I did say that the cow was very important to the livelihood of Hindus back then.
I did not question Gandhi’s view.
Yes, I know it is the carrier of Shiva. I know the stories of Kamandhenu (also known as Surabhi) and Nandini. And one of the temples that my family loves to go to has a statue of Nandini. I myself prayed to her many times when I was a child.
But that wasn’t the point of the post. I was talking about the tendency of impressionable Hindus to worship them as deities (which theoretically they can be). Not that it is an inherently bad thing; it is just unnecessary and such forms of Bhakti Hinduism have done more harm than good.
I have never heard of that interpretation of the bull. Perhaps you are thinking of another sect of Hinduism.[/QUOTE]
Worshiping something helps to reduce the ego…doesn’t matter what the deity is…
[QUOTE=Nietzsche;48094]I certainly don’t think it is a trend towards Hinduism and I am a Hindu. It is a trend for more Yoga (and that too in a superficial sense). The day that Americans will stop thinking of dirty rivers, curry eaters, stone worshipers, cow worshipers, smelly people, and 7-11 owners when they hear the word Hinduism is the day some Hindu aspects [B]might[/B] be integrated into American culture willingly and out of respect.[/QUOTE
Communications across the world will help to bring us all closer together.,…its only ignorance on both sides!
What you are wanting is to keep us all separate…your scared.
When a foreigner settles in another country his generations ahead will adopt the ways of that country. This is a fact!
[QUOTE=Nietzsche;48128]I know the story of Vashista and the Vasus. I know how they attempted to steal Nandini and Vashista cursed them to be reborn. I, unlike you, have actually read legitiamte translations of the Mahabharata and know such stories (not you Yulaw, the white supremacist you quoted).[/QUOTE]
Ah, the thrice-blessed <IGNORE> function is working like a charm, huh you infant? :rolleyes:
& my translations may not be “legitiamte” but they work just fine. 
(& as we’re all ethnocentric as we discussed earlier, just part of the human condition & whatnot, I suppose I’m a “white supremacist” about as much as you’re a “brown supremacist” or whatever…)
[QUOTE=kareng;48140]Worshiping something helps to reduce the ego…doesn’t matter what the deity is…[/QUOTE]
The wackjob thinks that by rejecting Bhakti Yoga while fully embracing Hindutva doctrine he’s being “rational” 
Namaste,
The reason for my conviction that America will become Hindu by the end of the century is because of science. The age of enlightenment was the beginning of free and critical thought in the West, and ever since the age of enlightenment the freedom to think freely and critically has become greater and greater. In fact so great, that a Christian theologian today can criticise the bible openly and fearlessly, without facing censure. This condition of allowing free and critical thought is what allowed the Vedic civilisation to flourish.
Ever since, the West has entered the age of enlightenment, we have seen massive changes that were unthinkable prior to it. We saw the rise of living standards of people and more complex divisions of labour and society, we saw the rise of civil, human, women and animal rights, including the abolishment of slavery. We saw the rise of mass education. We saw the rejection of old flat earth, geocentric and creationists paradigm and the rise of secularism. Today, the wordly is largely secular. It is all based on science and technology.
The beauty of the scientific method is that it is objective. When new information is discovered, old theories and models are revised or discarded and replaced with new ones. This means that our current world is epistemologically dynamic and skeptical. It does not take any current theory or model to be absolute. Theories and models come and go in all the scientific disciplines frequently. Now, what does our current model in science say?
In quantum mechanics it is now a proven fact that there is no such thing as reality, whatever we call reality is what we are conscious of. Even subtomic particles like electrons, protons and neutrons only exist insofar as we are conscious of them. First the observer is required to collapse the wavefunction before there is any particular reality at all. Thus what the scientist has stumbled upon in the comforts of their own laboratory, is the uncomfortable conclusion that consciousness must be included in science to truly make sense of the world. Hence, the move towards consciousness studies in science. A science of consciousness is emerging in the world, and therefore it is inevitable that the same truths will be discovered that are contained in Hinduism.
So whether we like it or not, science already had validated the Hindu world view. It is only a matter of time before the West becomes completely Hindu. It is already starting to resemble a Hindu society, albeit, in its infacy.
If science was allowed to have its way the West would be Hindu tomorrow. Unfortunately the old Abrahamic ideology is an obstacle that is slowing down that process. The longer we tolerate it the longer it will take for us to progress into the next chapter of humanity: the rise of the spiritual human(homospiritus) This process can be catalysed by referencing Hinduism.
[QUOTE=kareng;48143][QUOTE=Nietzsche;48094]I certainly don’t think it is a trend towards Hinduism and I am a Hindu. It is a trend for more Yoga (and that too in a superficial sense). The day that Americans will stop thinking of dirty rivers, curry eaters, stone worshipers, cow worshipers, smelly people, and 7-11 owners when they hear the word Hinduism is the day some Hindu aspects [B]might[/B] be integrated into American culture willingly and out of respect.[/QUOTE
Communications across the world will help to bring us all closer together.,…its only ignorance on both sides!
What you are wanting is to keep us all separate…your scared.
When a foreigner settles in another country his generations ahead will adopt the ways of that country. This is a fact![/QUOTE]
No, I just want to keep us Indian at a distance from those Westerners who seek to undermine our culture. Which would be the majority of them.
I know that. What is your point?
@Surya Deva_ indeed, Western society is now full of people who seek for spirituality. It is like a coda in a symphony that Western society will be like Vedic Hindu times. Yet after coda, the main theme of the symphony, even though the melody remains same, is articulated with accents, rhythmic developments, and so on. In fact, sometimes even the tune sound more rigorous after coda.
That is why this new society will be Vedic in its origins, but it is not going to be called “Hindu.” You gotta be careful with that, saying Hindu all the time, because many people associate the word ‘Hindu’ with bad images and ideologies nowadays, due to their cultural construction.
This apparently confuses people here, that is, many people think that Surya Deva is a Hindu extremist enmeshed in religious fanaticism. Yet if I understand correctly, he only heralds what is already ‘in becoming.’ We are just passing to the next coda, and in music, it is known that, before this passing, a stressful crescendo takes place. This is what is happening in the world nowadays!
If we completely removed all trace of Hinduism on this planet, still we would end up with a Hindu Vedic world, because science naturally leads to this conclusion. If science is allowed to have its way, a Vedic world is inevitable.
However, there is no need to reinvent the wheel - for the wheel already exists. What science needs to do now is adopt the Vedic way of life as enunciated in Hinduism in its original and unadulerated form before the corruption of the Bhakti tradition that emerged much later and meld it with the current advances in technology. We shoulld have Vedic systems of society, Vedic systems of science, medicine and Vedic systems of religion.
Ayurveda should replace the current allopathic system of medicine.
The varna-ashrama system should replace the current capitalist system of society.
The pramana scientific method should replace the current hypothetica-deductive scientific method
Yoga should replace the the current health system
Vedic astrology should replace Western astrology(and significantly improved to make it more scientific)
Vedic metaphysics should replace the current theology - making the doctrines of atman, brahman, karma and reincarnation as fact. The future generations must be taught these doctrines as facts.
My vision for a Vedic society is a society that is as spiritually advanced as it is technologically advanced.
[QUOTE=High Wolf;48288]@Surya Deva_ indeed, Western society is now full of people who seek for spirituality. It is like a coda in a symphony that Western society will be like Vedic Hindu times. Yet after coda, the main theme of the symphony, even though the melody remains same, is articulated with accents, rhythmic developments, and so on. In fact, sometimes even the tune sound more rigorous after coda.
That is why this new society will be Vedic in its origins, but it is not going to be called “Hindu.” You gotta be careful with that, saying Hindu all the time, because many people associate the word ‘Hindu’ with bad images and ideologies nowadays, due to their cultural construction.
This apparently confuses people here, that is, many people think that Surya Deva is a Hindu extremist enmeshed in religious fanaticism. Yet if I understand correctly, he only heralds what is already ‘in becoming.’ We are just passing to the next coda, and in music, it is known that, before this passing, a stressful crescendo takes place. This is what is happening in the world nowadays![/QUOTE]
AHAH! So you DO like classical music!
And true, Western society is filled with people seeking spirituality. But the number of ignorant and foolish Westerners far outweighs and outgrows those who seek spirituality…unfortunately.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;48297]If we completely removed all trace of Hinduism on this planet, still we would end up with a Hindu Vedic world, because science naturally leads to this conclusion. If science is allowed to have its way, a Vedic world is inevitable.
However, there is no need to reinvent the wheel - for the wheel already exists. What science needs to do now is adopt the Vedic way of life as enunciated in Hinduism in its original and unadulerated form before the corruption of the Bhakti tradition that emerged much later and meld it with the current advances in technology. We shoulld have Vedic systems of society, Vedic systems of science, medicine and Vedic systems of religion.
Ayurveda should replace the current allopathic system of medicine.
The varna-ashrama system should replace the current capitalist system of society.
The pramana scientific method should replace the current hypothetica-deductive scientific method
Yoga should replace the the current health system
Vedic astrology should replace Western astrology(and significantly improved to make it more scientific)
Vedic metaphysics should replace the current theology - making the doctrines of atman, brahman, karma and reincarnation as fact. The future generations must be taught these doctrines as facts.
My vision for a Vedic society is a society that is as spiritually advanced as it is technologically advanced.[/QUOTE]
The Aquarian age will not be tolerant of anyone following a religion the Aquarian age is about uniting the world and sees religion as dividing it…so religions will not survive…but they will be investigated in terms of their claims.
And, as I mentioned somewhere before, all secrets will be revealed. Exposure of everything will be huge and instead of us resisting this, most of us will welcome it…
Your quite right, why invent the wheel?..What this age will do is thoroughly investigate the human being, mind, body and soul, using technologies some already existing and many new ones…its approach will be scientific to expose the reasons for various phenomena…the drive to do this will be huge…
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;48169]Namaste,
The reason for my conviction that America will become Hindu by the end of the century is because of science. The age of enlightenment was the beginning of free and critical thought in the West, and ever since the age of enlightenment the freedom to think freely and critically has become greater and greater. In fact so great, that a Christian theologian today can criticise the bible openly and fearlessly, without facing censure. This condition of allowing free and critical thought is what allowed the Vedic civilisation to flourish.
Ever since, the West has entered the age of enlightenment, we have seen massive changes that were unthinkable prior to it. We saw the rise of living standards of people and more complex divisions of labour and society, we saw the rise of civil, human, women and animal rights, including the abolishment of slavery. We saw the rise of mass education. We saw the rejection of old flat earth, geocentric and creationists paradigm and the rise of secularism. Today, the wordly is largely secular. It is all based on science and technology.
The beauty of the scientific method is that it is objective. When new information is discovered, old theories and models are revised or discarded and replaced with new ones. This means that our current world is epistemologically dynamic and skeptical. It does not take any current theory or model to be absolute. Theories and models come and go in all the scientific disciplines frequently. Now, what does our current model in science say?
In quantum mechanics it is now a proven fact that there is no such thing as reality, whatever we call reality is what we are conscious of. Even subtomic particles like electrons, protons and neutrons only exist insofar as we are conscious of them. First the observer is required to collapse the wavefunction before there is any particular reality at all. Thus what the scientist has stumbled upon in the comforts of their own laboratory, is the uncomfortable conclusion that consciousness must be included in science to truly make sense of the world. Hence, the move towards consciousness studies in science. A science of consciousness is emerging in the world, and therefore it is inevitable that the same truths will be discovered that are contained in Hinduism.
So whether we like it or not, science already had validated the Hindu world view. It is only a matter of time before the West becomes completely Hindu. It is already starting to resemble a Hindu society, albeit, in its infacy.
If science was allowed to have its way the West would be Hindu tomorrow. Unfortunately the old Abrahamic ideology is an obstacle that is slowing down that process. The longer we tolerate it the longer it will take for us to progress into the next chapter of humanity: the rise of the spiritual human(homospiritus) This process can be catalysed by referencing Hinduism.[/QUOTE]
Too bad that 99.99999999% of Hindus just talk about all this crap and have no experience of it whatsoever. They just take it for granted. It’s pretty disgusting how much more Westerners are into Eastern philosophies than the people in the cultures that birthed them.
You’d think that the whole of India would be floating around spouting mega-cosmic enlightened crap & blowing peoples’ minds but no, they’re just in the thick of the waking state as most everyone else. If you REALLY believed all this stuff you state is “indisputable truth” you’d already be back in India scrounging around for your guru but no, you’re totally enjoying the Western world and all of the temptations and distractions it has to offer.
I think he wants to enjoy his “left handed” living as long as possible before becoming a monk.
Kind of like the Christian who wants to sin as much as possible before his deathbed contrition.
[QUOTE=thomas;48486]I think he wants to enjoy his “left handed” living as long as possible before becoming a monk.
Kind of like the Christian who wants to sin as much as possible before his deathbed contrition.[/QUOTE]
Don’t you mean, 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of Christians?
No, I don’t mean that, because most Christians I know are striving to live good lives, and are not striving to see how much they can get away with. But there are a few who are like SD and are living the an immoral “left handed” life, and find a way to rationalize it in the same way SD does.
Hmm, 80+% of America is Christian and America is the most debauched place on the planet. Obviously Christians also practice the “left handed life”
Morality is not something that you either have or you do not have. People are both moral and immoral to an extent. Everybody is a different shade.
Unlike you I do not claim to be a perfectly moral person, because I know I have many shortcomings and I am aware of them and revise them throughout my life. I do not have the will power to change them immediately, I change them over time.
Also unlike you, I do not accept scriptures that condone genocide, a religion that has a blood of hundreds of millions on its hands, and support a pope that has abetted child molestation.
What did Jesus say about pointing at the splinter in your neighbours eye, Thomas 
I don’t claim to be perfectly moral either.
I’ve got many weaknesses and sins.
I’m just not excusing them.
[QUOTE=thomas;48626]I don’t claim to be perfectly moral either.
I’ve got many weaknesses and sins.
I’m just not excusing them.[/QUOTE]
Yes, you have many weaknesses(which you call sin) but you still have these weaknesses Thomas. If you are aware you have them, why do you still have them?