Is it by coincidence that everyone (except me and yogiadam) on this forum believes in reincarnation, or do the two naturally go together?
Thomas, I don’t think you and YogiAdam are the only two. Many just don’t post because it usually ends up in an argument. So they just avoid it.
Nonetheless, you are indeed a minority view on this forum.
Although those practicing the practices of Yoga are not compelled to accept the doctrine of reincarnation, they naturally accept it because it makes the most sense. The following are in support of reincarnation
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The evidence of past life memories and positive evidences of past live memories being investigated and being found to refer to real things. Most people in Yoga community are aware of these facts
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The fact that the universe contains natural laws and principles, so to undertand moral actions as being subject to natural laws like karma is in character with the universe. Laws makes more sense than divine interventions.
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The fact that reincarnation is the best explanation for the problem of evil in theology on how god can allow souls to be born in varying circumstances
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The fact that reincarnation is a widely prevalent belief in all traditions on the planet.
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The fact that it is held as fact in Yoga.
We have a forum here for religion.
Yet in the general forum, reincarnation is mentioned often and as if it were a fact.
I’m not complaining about anyone breaking the rules. But it demonstrates that those who do yoga believe in reincarnation and expect that everyone else does–that it goes with the territory.
I would not be at all surpried that those who say Christians are welcome to do yoga think that Christians also believe in reincarnation.
[QUOTE=thomas;41730]Is it by coincidence that everyone (except me and yogiadam) on this forum believes in reincarnation, or do the two naturally go together?[/QUOTE]
Add one more. Although I try to remain open to all possibilities, the probability of reincarnation in the sense it is discussed here escapes me.
[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;41752]Add one more. Although I try to remain open to all possibilities, the probability of reincarnation in the sense it is discussed here escapes me.[/QUOTE]
The most depressing idea to me is one in which there is no God and all is just matter and when we die, that’s it.
But the second most depressing idea is that of reincarnation. The god of the reincarnation religions seems to be loveless and aloof, and the idea that my son could be my great great grandfather, or that even I could be my own great great grandfather, or that in 50 years I could be eating grass in a meadow is just plain weird.
The cynical side of me says that there is an attraction to believe this way because there is no need to worry about sin and no worry about going to hell–eventually you will get it right, so do as you please. But I also know that good sincere people believe in it, and are striving to be holy in the life they have now.
Regardless, in entering the world of yoga, even though the yogis and yoginis will tell you it is not a religion and it fits with all religions, the de facto religion is some form of Hinduisim, and the Christians or the atheists will be oddballs, and will have to have a level of tolerance about having religious beliefs imposed upon them, and being in a world where a concept like reincarnation is as natural to it as speaking English is to those in the US (except in Kahleefornya).
There is nothing depressing about reincarnation. In fact it is far more fair than the belief that one only lives once, in whatever life they end up getting, and then faces judgement that decides their fate for eternity. If I for a moment oblige your personal god, then I must say a god that only gives you one chance and then an eternal fate of either hell or heaven, is an unfair and loveless god. I want nothing to do with him.
What is in fact very positive about reincarnation is that if I cannot fulfil desires in this life, I can fulfil them in another. Suppose you were born ugly in this life, then at least you can be born beautiful in the next. This means there is a system of fairness in the universe where souls take turns. Else it would be unfair that god allowed one person to be beautiful and intelligent and another to be ugly and stupid, and the ugly and stupid person will never know what it is like to be beautiful and intelligent.
Of course there is the danger of complaceny and laziness by not taking this life seriously or ending your life if you don’t like the cards you have been dealt. But this is where the law of karma acts as a check and balance. If you don’t work hard enough in this life, you won’t get enough karmic credits for the life you want. In fact, if you’re not careful, you might lose karmic credits and get an even worse life.
Reincarnation is fair and square. Living once and facing eternal judgement is not.
I want to believe what IS and not what seems right or just, based on my own puny intellect and will.
And there is a fairness in the Christian concept, and all wrongs will be righted in the next life, and everyone eventually will have a new and perfect body.
Well, seeing as you don’t know what IS, you don’t know what is right. You rely basically on what is written in the bible, a highly errorneous and dubious book written a few millenia ago, stating things that we know today are errors.
If you had any sense at all you would take stock of all these facts being shared with you about reincarnation and revise your beliefs. This is what all sensible people do.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;41802]Well, seeing as you don’t know what IS, you don’t know what is right. You rely basically on what is written in the bible, a highly errorneous and dubious book written a few millenia ago, stating things that we know today are errors.
If you had any sense at all you would take stock of all these facts being shared with you about reincarnation and revise your beliefs. This is what all sensible people do.[/QUOTE]
I have seen many opinions about reincarnation but not one shred of credible evidence. To me, no sensible person would believe a cow could have at one time been a human.
I am a Catholic and not a sola scriptura Protestant, and I rely on the Church, the Scriptures, my common sense, and my personal experience with prayer and the sacraments to convince me of the veracity of my faith.
You do not criticize Catholicsm. You criticize what you THINK it is.
And yet we know for a fact today the human has evolved from animals.
Stop living in denial.
You are too preoccupied by the way with the idea that you will take on an animal body in your next life. In every case of reincarnation we know no human has ever taken on an animal body in their next life, a human always takes on a human body according to their karmas.
My mistake if I am in error. I thought someone here said a person could reincarnate as an animal, and I thought that was you.
The question was not about evolution, but in reincarnation.
At any rate, it is not the slightest bit sensible to me that anyone would come back again as another person. I have no reason to look into further, and have no reason to believe in it. I have no reason to accept opinions as facts, and your blind faith in reincarnation does not inspire me to do likewise.
Believe as you will. I’m not interested in tearing down your religion.
But it is curious to me why it is so important to you to smack-down Christiainty and Christians every chance you can.
I have reasoned faith in reincarnation. Just as I have reasoned faith in atoms. I have not seen atoms, but the evidence existing in its favour compells me to accept the doctrine of atoms.
At any rate, it is not the slightest bit sensible to me that anyone would come back again as another person.
If you honestly examined “personhood” you would find that there is no such thing independent of ones beliefs, thoughts, sensations, everything which is constantly changing. If you suffered total amnesia, found yourself waking up in Australia, Thomas would be long dead. You would develop new habits, adopt a new culture, maybe even a new religion 
If now you tell me the body will be the same. Wrong. What happened to your body when you were 1? 10? 20? 30? Gone and replaced. In fact your body is constantly being replaced every moment.
Personality is nothing more than a useful fiction. Read a bit of Hume
I am fully aware that my body is not the same body it was when I was 10 or even the same as it was yesterday.
But the soul is the form of the body, like the riverbed is the form of the water that travels through it, and though the water is always changing, the shape of the river remains the same.
In a similar way, we will have the “same” body.
There is scientific proof for atoms. What is the scientific proof for reincarnation?
The soul has no shape, it has no size, it has no colour and form. If it did, we would find it in the world of forms. I could open up your body and find the soul inside it.
It was your own Christian philosopher Descartes that proved that the mind and the body are not the same. The mind is non-extended, non divisible and “thinking thing” and the body is extended, divisible and inert thing. They are different substances.
This is why it is possible for your soul to continue to exist once the body is gone. It is does not need a body to exist, but a body cannot live without a soul. Hence why when your body changes innumerable times in your lifetime you soul remains the same. It is the controller that is controlling your body.
You contradict yourself when you say that the soul and body are created at once and are part of one another. In which case the soul should perish with the same body. There is no reason it should carry on independently for it depends on the body to exist. Of course you don’t care about this contradiction, because you are not a rational person.
Hindus look at this rationally though and take the thought experiment of Descartes to its logical conclusion. The body and the mind are changing entities and thus they take place in time and space. They have form(thought is also a form) and they are stuff. Mind being more subtle stuff than body. The soul which is the witness and controller of the body and mind itself is not changing. It is therefore not in time and space. Thus it has no origin, no middle and no end. It exists eternally.
If the soul exists eternally then it makes sense that the embodient of the soul is a temporal thing. If it a temporal thing then there is a cause that has brought that soul into embodient and as long as that cause remains, embodient continues. That cause is desire(in the beginning the divine will arose) and as long as there is desire there is embodiment. Reincarnation is therefore the natural conclusion then because desire does not end at death. We leave this world with desire still intact. In fact the first thing that we rumuinate over when we pass over is “What we could have done”
Desire is the very cause of why we want to live another day. It keeps us going. Desire is not only the cause of our motive to live, but it also constructs our body. The thoughts in our mind can physically manifest in our body as psychosomatic phenomenon. The body itself is a creation of desire both metaphysically and physically(desire for sexual union between your parents) Desire is what brings you back from the deep sleep at night and wakes you up in the morning. Desire is the first thing on our mind.
When your soul leaves the body it leaves with desire, but some souls leave with a desire that is so strong it pulls them towards the body, preventing them from passing over. These disembodied souls are called “ghosts” that haunt areas they were attached to. Others leave the earth plane completely, entering into the spiritual planes. But alas, they still have desires. So they decide to come back in a new body to work through those desires.
A rational person has no problem accepting this because it makes complete sense and it is logical. But you are not a rational person, so you will not accept this.
But today this is even backed up by scientific proof. Studies in OBE and NDEs have validated the existence of the soul and the different planes of reality the soul enters, including reincarnations of souls. Transpersonal psychologists, particularly conscousness researchers have shown how at different levels of consciousness once enters into these various planes. Investigative psychologists have investigated past life memories and been able to validate the actual real people they belonged to, as well as explain birthmarks and birth injuries as continuation of past-life trauma.
But you are not a scientific person either, so you will not accept this. You are a man of faith. You believe because you want to believe. You don’t care whether something is real or true. You arbitrate yourself what is real or true. Very much like a child would.
You don’t make personal attacks, but you’ve called me irrational and a child. LOL
You contradict yourself when you say that the soul and body are created at once and are part of one another. In which case the soul should perish with the same body. There is no reason it should carry on independently for it depends on the body to exist. Of course you don’t care about this contradiction, because you are not a rational person.
I didn’t say they are part of each other. The soul is the life force of the body. The soul is created by God at the time of conception and is linked to the body but not “in” the body, since it is immaterial and has no size, color, or shape. But that does not mean it is not the form of the material body, since I could have a plan in my mind of how to construct something, and this plan has no size, color or shape either.
Please provide a link to some sources which conclusively prove reincarnation.
But that does not mean it is not the form of the material body, since I could have a plan in my mind of how to construct something, and this plan has no size, color or shape either.
Exactly. The mind is not the same material as body. Hence why we talk of mental planes. This is where you go when you withdraw from the senses in meditation, go to sleep and when you pass over.
The soul is not created, bodies are created Since the soul is immaterial it is not something within time and space. What is not within time and space neither is born or dies.
You think of god and heaven as being somewhere in time and space, but that contradicts your belief they are immaterial. Immaterial things don’t exist in time and space.
God is immaterial and has no body. God is outside of time and space.
These are things that I think, yet you say I think otherwise. Do you have powers to read my mind? If you do, please wear your mind reading glasses next time.
God can and has created immaterial beings which we call “angels.”
Immaterial things can be created in time. Our souls are not eternal going backwards in time.
The trouble with you is you suffer contradictions easily.
If god is immateral and outside of time and space, then all things that are immaterial are outside of time and space. The notion that something can be created within the immaterial is a contradiction.
Material things are extended, divisible. If angels and souls are material as the body we should be able to see them, measure them, divide them. If, however, they are made out of another material then that material precedes the material of the body. Therefore first the material of the soul and angel is created. Then the material of the body from that.
Unfortunately now we got loads of gaps in our scheme. There is the immaterial god, then the material souls and angels, and then the material body. How do all of these materials and immaterials contact with one another and interact with one another? What is holding them together? How does each material start and where does it come out from?
The answer is pretty clear rather than being things made out of several materials all things are made out of the same material. The same substance. So either that material is body material or spiritual material or it is god himself.
So what came first? God right? He created. But created out of what? The only thing that exists is god and nothing else. Therefore god must be the original material of all materials. What follows? Then he created angels right. Spiritual material must follow. Then finally body material.
So this is how creation begins it begins first at the level of god as pure spirit. This pure spirit than out of itself creates spiritual/mental matter and then body/physical matter. The soul therefore is not created at the same time as physical matter, but prior to it. Therefore the soul pre-exists before the body and merely takes on a body.
But you are not rational, so I might as well tell this to a wall 
By the way I thought god rested on the seventh day. But according to you he is constantly still creating? What is it going to be.