Well as far as i can think celibacy is more of a emotional or mental concept and the physical concept comes next. I don’t think what anand said and gori thinks that preserving the semen and not ejaculating it is what we call celibacy but its more than that. Celibacy’s work is to use the essens of semen for the purpose of increasing ones vibration so that the native can use its help to transcend the path of spirituality. Well one can masturbate and do sex and still can preserve the fluid but if awareness is not there and the native is overwhelmed or overtaken by lust then its not celibacy at all because in such a case his consciousness is following the downward path with the help of his lustful mentality rather than the opposite and it could lead to suppression which is more dangerous; well he might get physical benefit but spiritual benefit is more than nil. Awareness with other things play major role here thereby checking that neither you are suppressing your desire nor you are in time taking you to the level of animalism because human being has the ability to go below the muladhara level of consciousness. So for some its better to follow the natural course of sex life than to remain celibate because they are just suppressing their desire in name of celibacy and when it bounce back people remain in a state of shock.
[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;63542]Dear Friend:
Celibacy is not easy at all. Your post quoting Swami Sivananda describes the difficulty.
As a first step, one should pray to the Guru to help you out in this. With grace of Guru and Almighty, nothing is impossible.
You try the following:
[ol]
[li]At the dietary level, stop consuming meat, eggs, onion and garlic and reduce intake of common salt. You could replace common salt with mountain salt.[/li][li]At the [I]Hatha Yoga[/I] level you could take up the simplified Vajaroli, which is exactly the same as the second of the five tibetan rites. (Lying down with palms facing the floor, inhaling and then raising up the legs and the head, till the legs are vertically up and then exhaling further and further bringing about a strain just below the abdomen and maintaining this final position for some time, which is to be increased from say 5 seconds to 20 seconds. Repeat 3 to 7 times increasing with practice.[/li][li]At the attitude level, one could read literature of the saints and yes, you could chant the siddha mantra,[I][B]“Aum Namo Narayanaya”[/B][/I], whenever the mind is thus troubled.[/li][/ol]
Having said this, I must also say that the introductory practice of mahayoga, in which the mind gets engaged in only and only Prana, is definitely the simplest and highest yoga practice. Here is how:
[ol]
[li]Sit in any comfortable pose on a wool mat laid on the floor. Relax the body to the maximum possible.[/li][li]Calmly close the eyes with an [I]inner attitude[/I] of surrender tor [I]Pana[/I], the divine life force in us that drives the body and mind.[/li][li][B]Allow[/B] Prana to move the air into and out of the body. Do not impose any breathing. Simply follow the air that [B]automatically[/B] enters and leaves the body.[/li][/ol]
Practise this sitting for 3 minutes or more as per available time. By this practice, slowly, your question will get answered from within.
regards, anand[/QUOTE]
Anand,
I have no guru, but I frequently ask living and passed masters for help. I shall utter the Siddha Mantra too, as you suggest. Thank you.
I don’t eat all that stuff except eggs. I have three eggs per week, in order to get the required amino acids.
As to the practice:
I do practice vajroli in order to activate my rogue swadishthana chakra.
And a bunch of other tantric and yogic practices to awaken my prana and chakras, as well as asanas and meditation. I couldn’t do more.
Western streets, specially in summertime, are true hell for young brahmacharis like me. I’m about to invent the “chastity glasses”, I’ll keep you informed…
[B]Aum Namo Narayanaya![/B]
[QUOTE=panoramix;63702]Anand,
I have no guru, but I frequently ask living and passed masters for help. I shall utter the Siddha Mantra too, as you suggest. Thank you.
I don’t eat all that stuff except eggs. I have three eggs per week, in order to get the required amino acids.
As to the practice:
I do practice vajroli in order to activate my rogue swadishthana chakra.
And a bunch of other tantric and yogic practices to awaken my prana and chakras, as well as asanas and meditation. I couldn’t do more.
Western streets, specially in summertime, are true hell for young brahmacharis like me. I’m about to invent the “chastity glasses”, I’ll keep you informed…
[B]Aum Namo Narayanaya![/B]
[/QUOTE]
Dear Friend:
Good to hear your resolve.
The[I] swadhisthan chakra[/I] is also known as [I][B]“karmashaya”[/B][/I] i.e. the storehouse of all [I]karma[/I]. So the relevant yogic practices are for emptying this storehouse rather than to activate it.
My Guru has told me not to worry about the result, because that aspect is up to Divinity. Dedication is what is in our hands.
Thus, all the asanas which one does should be held in their final positions, with an [B]inner attitude[/B] of “offering” that asana to Divine Prana, because by performing that asana it is Prana that is getting channelised to some particular zone in the astral / pranic body.
regards, anand
[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;63704]
“The[I] swadhisthan chakra[/I] is also known as [I][B]“karmashaya”[/B][/I] i.e. the storehouse of all [I]karma[/I]. So the relevant yogic practices are for emptying this storehouse rather than to activate it.”
[/QUOTE]
.
.
.
.
Well Anand did you mean that activating of swadisthan chakra is not necessary with regard to above lines or that i misunderstood. Well no question regarding it to be karmashaya but isn’t it that activation of this chakra really important with regards to kundalini sadhana.
[QUOTE=Spirit175;63710].
.
.
.
Well Anand did you mean that activating of swadisthan chakra is not necessary with regard to above lines or that i misunderstood. Well no question regarding it to be karmashaya but isn’t it that activation of this chakra really important with regards to kundalini sadhana.[/QUOTE]
Dear friend:
I apologise for the misunderstanding caused. The chakra certainly should be in an awakened state for the concerned purification to take place. I said it a sense of giving more importance to purification associated with this chakra.
Gratefully yours
anand
Well anand i apologise too for misunderstanding it and since swadisthan when activated is a source of creativity,refined thinking,control of sex impulse,pure knowledge in terms of perception,helps in concentration and gives power to the brain needs proper activation otherwise it leads to off balance personality,excessive thinking,over ambition etc. and in your posts you gave its practical approach nicely. And thanks for the clarification.
[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;63727]Dear friend:
I apologise for the misunderstanding caused. The chakra certainly should be in an awakened state for the concerned purification to take place. I said it a sense of giving more importance to purification associated with this chakra.
Gratefully yours
anand[/QUOTE]
By activation I mean purification or awareness, it’s a requisite of the Kriya Yoga sadhana I’m dealing with.
Anand,
“Preserving the reproductive fluids, i.e. not letting them out of one’s body, is celibacy.”
There is a difference between living as a celibate, and being free of sexual desire. To live as a celibate means that you have simply prevented yourself from having sex. To be free of sexual desire simply means that whether you have sex or do not have sex, it makes no difference at all to your freedom. It should be made clear that where there is freedom - then whether you travel to the North, South, East, or West - that freedom will follow you just like a fragrance, it is inescapable. It one interprets being celibate as being free of sexual desire, then one is still being deceived by appearances and has not yet grasped that which is essential.
[QUOTE=AmirMourad;63760]Anand,
“Preserving the reproductive fluids, i.e. not letting them out of one’s body, is celibacy.”
There is a difference between living as a celibate, and being free of sexual desire. To live as a celibate means that you have simply prevented yourself from having sex. To be free of sexual desire simply means that whether you have sex or do not have sex, it makes no difference at all to your freedom. It should be made clear that where there is freedom - then whether you travel to the North, South, East, or West - that freedom will follow you just like a fragrance, it is inescapable. It one interprets being celibate as being free of sexual desire, then one is still being deceived by appearances and has not yet grasped that which is essential.[/QUOTE]
dear friend:
Being celibate refers to the physical/ external aspect and being free from desire is the mental/ inner aspect.
If a tunnel is to be made through a mountain, today’s tunnel engineers start boring at both ends of the mountain, so that work is done in half the time.
regards, anand
Anand,
“Being celibate refers to the physical/ external aspect and being free from desire is the mental/ inner aspect”
I am aware of that. But the question is, is it possible to be celibate and yet not free of sexual desire ? If it is possible, then being celibate is not a solution. Maybe it can be helpful in some ways to work towards a solution. But in itself, it is not a solution. The fact is that to be celibate as a permanent way of life is dangerous. Temporarily, it can be very useful. But permanently, very dangerous. Because nature has not intended man to be celibate. If nature has intended man to be celibate, then this would be a great threat to the survival of the species. To ensure the survival of the species, nature has not created man to be celibate. If you really realize this, then you will also realize that if you are living life as a permanent celibate, then you are doing something which is fundamentally against the nature of the body.
[QUOTE=AmirMourad;63765]Anand,
“Being celibate refers to the physical/ external aspect and being free from desire is the mental/ inner aspect”
I am aware of that. But the question is, is it possible to be celibate and yet not free of sexual desire ? If it is possible, then being celibate is not a solution. Maybe it can be helpful in some ways to work towards a solution. But in itself, it is not a solution. The fact is that to be celibate as a permanent way of life is dangerous. Temporarily, it can be very useful. But permanently, very dangerous. Because nature has not intended man to be celibate. If nature has intended man to be celibate, then this would be a great threat to the survival of the species. To ensure the survival of the species, nature has not created man to be celibate. If you really realize this, then you will also realize that if you are living life as a permanent celibate, then you are doing something which is fundamentally against the nature of the body.[/QUOTE]
dear friend:
how true, what you say.
Except that yoga yoga involves merging lower products with the higher. In a way this is very much going against nature, which had produced these lower products, which were the cause of bondage.
A yogi need not worry about the propagation of the species. Only 1 in 100000 is interested in pure yoga and 1 out of 100000 such aspirants attains liberation.
Further, even if all current humans attain liberation, the space will get filled with new entrants from currently other species. And even if all these are liberated, they will continue to exist in higher spheres.
regards, anand
Amir,
You surprise me to be a saint and a commoner at the same time.
Perhaps you have to have another depression to come to realise the realities of life.
Nature leaves its footprints for us to decode
.
When on the last act of sex, ejaculation, one experiences the feeling of egolessness and timelessness. Telling us mortals that what it would be like to have a perpetual bliss, if you are one with Him. And we want to try it again and again.
One can train his mind against these cardinal desires
That’s yoga is all about?
[QUOTE=AmirMourad;63765]Anand,
“Being celibate refers to the physical/ external aspect and being free from desire is the mental/ inner aspect”
I am aware of that. But the question is, is it possible to be celibate and yet not free of sexual desire ? If it is possible, then being celibate is not a solution. Maybe it can be helpful in some ways to work towards a solution. But in itself, it is not a solution. The fact is that to be celibate as a permanent way of life is dangerous. Temporarily, it can be very useful. But permanently, very dangerous. Because nature has not intended man to be celibate. If nature has intended man to be celibate, then this would be a great threat to the survival of the species. To ensure the survival of the species, nature has not created man to be celibate. If you really realize this, then you will also realize that if you are living life as a permanent celibate, then you are doing something which is fundamentally against the nature of the body.[/QUOTE]
.
.
.
Well amir if a seeker of truth always goes the nature way then i fear he is never going to attain salvation. And its the same with celibacy. Sexual desire are one of the strongest desire that bind human beings and act as a perfect fuel to satisfy the never satisfying ego. Thats why muladhar and swadhisthan chakra act as the major hinderance in the rising of kundalini. And in order to fuel this kundalini conversion of material sexual desire into divine sexual union, and the essence of semen which plays its own vital role in the process, play very important subtle roles. And this is where celibacy in its full fledged form plays its part “till the divine union of extreme centres is established.” You can’t move on with celibacy for some time and then enjoy sexual lust physically “and” mentally and so on. Its like climbing a rope to a particular point then moving down to the base and continue this play reaching nowhere but stuck in between. To climb the ladder of spirituality celibacy is must. Intercourse for the purpose of creation stands apart and a question of choice for a spiritual aspirant. And after a point of divine union the question of celibacy for the native holds no ground,he has transcended the path and free from nature’s control which he knows from the depth of soul.
[QUOTE=AmirMourad;63765]Anand,
To ensure the survival of the species, nature has not created man to be celibate. If you really realize this, then you will also realize that if you are living life as a permanent celibate, then you are doing something which is fundamentally against the nature of the body.[/QUOTE]
Is yoga all about body and only about body? Your posts always contradict each other 
An aspirant in the western world reads and understands about “Sanathana Dharma” from books and twisted interpretations, with a frame of mind that is not born and grown in/with “Shanathana Dharma”. Naturally, he/she will see everything about Yoga objective, but not subjective.
“But the question is, is it possible to be celibate and yet not free of sexual desire ?”
Yes. Most (all?) celibates will have sexual desire. Sexual desire is a fundamental, evolutionary aspect of humans and animals.
People choose celibacy for various reasons. Some don’t choose it at all but it is forced upon them.
Sahasrara,
"Is yoga all about body and only about body? Your posts always contradict each other "
No, but if you cannot even be in tune with the nature of the body, there is very little possibility of being in communion with your own true nature - of which the body is an expression of. The body strives hard to be in tune with nature - it has a certain advantage which the mind does not. If the mind had that same tendency, then by now, everybody would have already come to their enlightenment. The body has never been a problem, most of the problems of man’s sufferings are created at the level of the mind.
Spirit,
"then i fear he is never going to attain salvation. "
Who has put this idea in your mind that man needs to be saved ?
“Sexual desire are one of the strongest desire that bind human beings and act as a perfect fuel to satisfy the never satisfying ego”
If you are living out of unconsciousness, then most of your desires are going to function in that way. But if you are living out of awareness, then what was once poison has now become medicine.
"Thats why muladhar and swadhisthan chakra act as the major hinderance in the rising of kundalini. "
I promise you that without the muladhara or swaddisthana, there would be no such thing as Kundalini arising.
“And in order to fuel this kundalini conversion of material sexual desire into divine sexual union”
If everything in existence is divine, then what are you doing dividing between what is “material” and what is “spiritual”. In all directions - the same serpent swallows it’s own tail.
"And this is where celibacy in its full fledged form plays its part “till the divine union of extreme centres is established.”
Celibacy is useful, not essential.
“To climb the ladder of spirituality celibacy is must”
As far as the methods towards awakening are concerned, there are no absolutes, only relative skillful means.
“he has transcended the path and free from nature’s control which he knows from the depth of soul”
Nature has never been “controlling” you. It is because you are not in tune with existence, out of one’s own unawareness, that most of man’s sufferings have been created. This is a situation which has been created by nothing else other than one’s own hands. And unless a human being takes complete responsibility for his way of being, then he has not yet realized that the same sword which saves the man is the same sword which kills the man.
prasad,
"One can train his mind against these cardinal desires
That’s yoga is all about? "
Is there a difference between training against something, and understanding it ? What is needed is not to control the mind, what is needed is to liberate the mind. And for that - what is needed is understanding, what is needed is insight. You can have tremendous control, but without even a drop of insight. Control by itself is just mechanical. Insight is spontaneous, it has a living flame of life in it. There are some yogis who are very controlled, but have remained in the darkness of their ignorance because they did not come into contact with even a spark of insight. What is needed is not to train the mind for or against anything. That is why Patanjali has said that both attraction and aversion are amongst the most blinding forces for one’s awareness. If you are to have an understanding into anything - what is needed is to be able to observe things as they are in the present, without becoming identified with anything which may arise in one’s experience. If sexual desire arises, yes, you can try and repress it through control. But repression through control is not going to help you to understand it - it will only give you the illusion that you have become liberated from it. Control by nature means restriction, and insight is not something that can happen through control alone. That is why most who have been struck with insight are familiar with it - that it always arrives when you are least expecting it.
Anand,
“A yogi need not worry about the propagation of the species”
It is not a question of propogation of the species. If you cannot even be integrated with the ways of your own body, there is very little possibility of your being integrated at the level of the mind. In fact - the mind and body are not separate from each other. If one change happens on one level, another change happens on another level - they are two aspects of the same thing. But this obsession with celibacy has come into being because of an attachment to a certain belief system. Because there have been belief systems which have been saying that the body by nature is the cause of all of man’s sufferings. It is because of the body - that you are born with all kinds of limitations. That is why, the body is to be conquered and controlled, until it can become impregnated by a higher energy. But the fact is that all of man’s sufferings are created at the level of the mind - the body is not a hindrance.
“which had produced these lower products, which were the cause of bondage.”
By saying this, you are stating precisely the same thing - that because of “lower products” of nature, you are suffering. The problem is simply that man is asleep, that he has been living out of unconsciousness. It is a situation which is entirely self-created. Nature is doing just fine by itself - it does not need any improvement. Nothing needs to be added from it, nothing needs to be subtracted from it - things as they are are precisely as they should be.
But this obsession with celibacy has come into being because of an attachment to a certain belief system.
Dear friend:
Referring to your post no.189:
Well, all I can say about the above thought is that one should also not be obsessed with not being obsessed!
But seriously, referring to your words below:
If you cannot even be integrated with the ways of your own body, there is very little possibility of your being integrated at the level of the mind. In fact - the mind and body are not separate from each other. If one change happens on one level, another change happens on another level - they are two aspects of the same thing
.
Yes, most of us are aware that body and mind are connected. It is the link with mind and spirit that is missing from our experience and as long as we are obsessed with sex, which in nature’s scheme of things, serves to preserve the species, serves only to appease the ego which is nothing but consciousness that is mired solely in the senses.
Sex becomes an important issue in Yoga because in this, all the five senses are simultaneously involved in the gratification of ego, who continues to forever short-change the higher self of the reality of the experience.
To avoid this short-changing, Yogis found means for inner experiences, including those corresponding to physical sex to produce permanent satisfaction, as these experiences were devoid of the involvement of senses and the mind.
For Yogis, this was at once bliss and freedom from the slavery of the senses.
If someone has found a new way to attain all this, that’s great.
regards, anand