Yoga row between Indian Yogis and Western Yogis

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#108

You are being rather intolerant in the way you are debating, do you have a chip on your shoulder? All I am pointing out is something which is obvious, if women dress in such a way as to objectivity themselves sexually, then these women are obviously responsible for presenting these images to men. If you read carefully, I had actualy said that I find discussions by my male friends where they objectify women to be uncomfortable and alienating, and I have actually made it a point to tell my male friends that I do not approve of this anymore. So, no I am not squarely putting the blame at the womans door step, but rather I am saying that in Western culture this relationship of the women as the sex object and the man as her consumer has been internalized. This is unfortunate.

I think Western culture can learn something from Indian cultural ethos that women need to be respected. However, this also means women need to respect themselves. And the millions of British women who objectify themselves every friday and saturday night, clearly do not respect themselves.

#109

[QUOTE=The Scales;54438]My neighbor where i used to work - owned - yes a quickie mart - anyway that indian man was the horniest guy ever and he was married with children.

I’ve noticed this. Indians are horny.
They got 800 million people - somebody - been doing somebody - a lot.

Americans are horny.

Almost EVERYBODY horny.

Maybe the Indians are a little more repressed about it where as here and maybe in Briton you had the ‘sexual revolution.’ in the 60’s.

So perhaps the west is more open about that…This is simply a cultural difference.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I agree. It is human nature for men to find women sexy, and people will continue having sex whether women wear bikinis and burqas. Repression of women does not reduce men’s sexual desire at all.

#110

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;54404]
Now when I go out and such discussions take place, I roll my eyes and find it really uncomfortable.[/QUOTE]

Well, at least you’re getting some excercise.

I agree with you. India is a very backward and unenlightened society that subjugates her women and restricts their rights as given to men. Hopefully the new media will awaken and enlighten the people and they will demand freedom from male-dominated, antiquated doctrine. Fingers crossed. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

#111

Come on Flexpenguin, you can’t talk. Western women are treated like sex objects in their society, and foolishly have accepted this role and deluded themselves into thinking this is liberation and freedom :smiley:

You cannot compare such a society where women are treated with so much disrespect to a society where women became gurus, risis and sages.

I am sorry your civilisation is barbaric, and I say this because everybody knows how women were historically treated in the West and how tens of thousands were burned at the stake. I told you if you openly insult my civilisation, I will openly insult yours. And while were at it, let me remind you the country you live in does not even belong to you. It belongs to the Native Americans, who are now the most deprived and marginalized people in North America.

#112

[QUOTE=trinley;54442]Yes, I agree. It is human nature for men to find women sexy, and people will continue having sex whether women wear bikinis and burqas. Repression of women does not reduce men’s sexual desire at all.[/QUOTE]

I second that! NONE of us would be here, and own species would disappear if our sex drives weren’t overpowering. This is the comical bit I find in many religions… this kind of aversion, and frowning upon sex, yet you wouldn’t even be here if it wasn’t for sex, and your family would fade away if it wasn’t for sex… and if you think a burqas is going to change that, your overly optimistic to say the least.

#113

second that! NONE of us would be here, and own species would disappear if our sex drives weren’t overpowering.

The very use of the emboldened word suggests imbalance. If you are honestly feeling urges to seek sex, then this indicates that something is wrong. A healthy individual does not have urges to have sex, but rather has sex as a natural extension for their affection for their partner. This type of sex is very healthy and should be encouraged. What you suggest is not healthy and it is based on an actual recognised vice that affects our mind, lust, which when “overpowering” can become a force of destruction.

#114

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;54477]The very use of the emboldened word suggests imbalance. If you are honestly feeling urges to seek sex, then this indicates that something is wrong. A healthy individual does not have urges to have sex, but rather has sex as a natural extension for their affection for their partner. This type of sex is very healthy and should be encouraged. What you suggest is not healthy and it is based on an actual recognised vice that affects our mind, lust, which when “overpowering” can become a force of destruction.[/QUOTE]

Actually a mental disorder is defined by it’s influence on your day to day functioning. If my behavior does not effect my ability to go to work, pay the bills, maintain social relationships, attend to daily living skills such as cooking cleaning etc… then it’s actually considered normal. If I have urges to seek sex, it’s a normal part of being a human. If doesn’t effect my normal day to day functioning, than a psych. doctor would not consider it a disorder.

#115

This maybe the dogma of the psychiatric community, but it does not stand to reason. It is possible to have a disease and still function in day to day life. I have a friend who suffer from anxiety disorders, but can hold a job, do their daily chores and even maintain relationships. However, internally my friend is a wreck. Always worrying, worried about how he is being judged.

Just because somebody may appear to be functionally normally, does not mean that internally they are balanced. What you have suggested to me by saying “overpowering” is a cause for concern, this suggests that something exists within you(lust) that diminishes your control. Rather than you being in control, something is more powerful than you. This is indicative of something wrong with your normal sexual function. You may not be able to see it, but subtly it is there lodged in your unconscious mind.

I’ve always thought there is something wrong with you sexually to be honest, because of how you have regularly, almost obsessively talked about sex on this forum and boasted about your sexual conquests. You have pointed this out, even when the discussion was not relevant.

You have a nascent sexual problem, my friend.

#116

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;54479]You have a nascent sexual problem, my friend.[/QUOTE]

Awesome!! Thanks doc!! I’m official diagnosed as a stud!!!

#117

Shiva Rea combines strength and flexibility in a female form that is rarely seen in India.

Most of the indian women i’ve seen are little on the soft side to put it well.

Those ol indian fuddy duddies must have saw something too hot and exotic for them to handle and had to leave before they lost total control - like adam is prone to do because of all his testosterone.

Also she comes from a dance background. I see nothing wrong with artistic expression in the form of dance.

Shiva Dances doesn’t he?

Dance is one of the original arts if you ask me. That and fly fishing.

I would suspect her moves weren’t anything more raunchy than I’ve seen Indian women do… in thier traditional dance. They most likely weren’t raunchy at all. Considering that shes a smart gal and knew where she was. Now if she was spinning around a pole to rap music, and running a feather boa between her legs - then maybe. But I seriously doubt it.

The ol fuddy duddy prudes were just fuddy duddy prudes.

Makes me question their yogictude.

#118

[QUOTE=The Scales;54490]like adam is prone to do because of all his testosterone. [/QUOTE]

:slight_smile: aww come on… that’s not fair… all men have testosterone lol

#119

Aren’t we on yoga forums??..pls. cut out the soft porn!

#120

[QUOTE=b.shahvir;54501]Aren’t we on yoga forums??..pls. cut out the soft porn![/QUOTE]

See? Must be an Indian Thing cause poor shavir can barely contain himself from just reading about it on the internet.

Just think of the inner turmoil those poor indian yogis had to endure when faced with fully clothed shiva rea and her suggestive dancing - in the flesh.

:roll:

#121

[QUOTE=The Scales;54505]
Just think of the inner turmoil those poor indian yogis had to endure when faced with fully clothed shiva rea and her suggestive dancing - in the flesh.
:roll:[/QUOTE]

at least your heart goes out for someone!

#122

The above is further evidence that what is considered too sexual for one culture is nothing to blink at for another. It can’t be said that one is right and one is wrong.

What I want to add about this talk of women being respected in India is this – if you respect women, you respect all women. If you say “I respect Indian women but not English women” or “I respect women in long skirts but not in short skirts” then that is not really respect for [I]women[/I]. It is a reflection of what one’s social conditioning has taught them to think of as respectable. Respect is unconditional when it comes from the understanding that we are all one, and that is much closer to the idea of yoga than respect which is occasional and dependent on the hem of a woman’s skirt.

#123

Well put.

#124

“I respect Indian women but not English women” or “I respect women in long skirts but not in short skirts” then that is not really respect for women.

You respect those who respect themselves first. A woman objectifying herself, does not respect herself, otherwise she would not objectify herself.

Even here in the UK men do not respect women. I am a man, trust me, the kind of conversations we guys have about women would horrify you. My friend is notorious for groping women, slapping their ass. Like I said, I have recently started to disapprove of this behaviour.

#125

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;54537]You respect those who respect themselves first. A woman objectifying herself, does not respect herself, otherwise she would not objectify herself.

Even here in the UK men do not respect women. I am a man, trust me, the kind of conversations we guys have about women would horrify you. My friend is notorious for groping women, slapping their ass. Like I said, I have recently started to disapprove of this behaviour.[/QUOTE]

Very well put! :slight_smile:

#126

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;54537] I am a man, trust me, the kind of conversations we guys have about women would horrify you.[/QUOTE]

This is very revealing. No man I consider a friend speaks of women in the way you and your buddies do. Who are the objectifiers? You are, it seems.

#127

This is very revealing. No man I consider a friend speaks of women in the way you and your buddies do. Who are the objectifiers? You are, it seems.

I am not surprised you would deny this and just blame me and my friends. You are a Western patriot with a misplaced sense of patriotism. You do not accept any criticism of the West and behave like it is immune. When others critice it, you insult them and their culture, as if that is going to absolve the West of its ills.

We know how common the objectification of women in Western culture is. It is all over the media where women are used to sell products, semi naked to naked images of them are plastered on magazine covers. Many cultural critics have spoken about how women are objectified in Western culture. It is blatant for everybody to see.

Like I said when I go out it not uncommon for me to see groups of men walk by women and make sexual advances on them. In bars and clubs, groups of men surround women like sexual predators, and then they make moves on them. The women often reciprocate, and within minutes they are grinding on the dance floor, groping each other.

I recall a friend of mine in college who was an older student, 40 with kids. Me, her and my college mates went out on a night out. The female friends had hooked up with some men and booked a hotel(to do you know what) My 40 year old friend who had to leave early gave me a lift back. When we got near mine, she got a phone call from one of the men, he said, “All my other male friends hooked up, and I have not, come back to the hotel” She seriously considered it, and then started to rationaize, “Yes, I know he wants sex, but is my choice whether I give it to him or not” Later I found out she went back.

Unfortunately, in the West, this relationship has been interalized and normalized. My friend clearly did not respect herself. He treated her like a call-girl, who he can call on a whim to get a sexual favour from, for free. And she reciprocated.