Yogis at WAR with Money & Desire?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

Fellow Yogi’s:

[B]What’s up with Yogi’s having such a problem with money and desire?[/B]

I’m a bit cautious to bring this up here, but being that I’m a new member, I figure I can take a chance and go out on a limb and address what I see as a VERY painful and problematic contradiction inside our community.

I’ve been wanting/waiting for the right place to express my frustration about this for a LONG time, as I feel like I get hit upside the head with resistance from Yogi’s at every turn.

I’ll openly admit, when I was 16 years old, all I wanted to do was get a plane ticket to India, find my “cave” and meditate my way to spiritual enlightenment (no joke).

But fast forward to today and my mindset and circumstances are quite a bit different.

[B]For example:
[/B]
[B]A.[/B] I’ve started a small business that does pretty well by average standards, and affords me and my wife the ability to live a pretty comfortable lifestyle. Yet Yogi’s seem to really NOT dig “business people”?

[B]B.[/B] The lifestyle I’ve chosen costs about 30K per month. I’m very grateful to be doing quite well in this economy despite many people loosing their jobs, yet it seems that I’m not looked on as being very “yogi like” from many here in the local community?

[B]C.[/B] I have a wife who also considers herself a “yogi” AND who has VERY expensive taste (go figure) and really likes “designer clothing” and “designer furniture” (we’re talking $200 jeans and $8,000 couches!). I’m more of a TJ Max kinda guy (or ROSS for those of you not familiar).

Many of our friends who are [B]yoga instructors[/B] drive beat up cars, are teaching 10-15 classes per week and are barely able to make ends meet (some even taking up a 2nd job waiting tables or bar-tending which brings up an interesting point).

When we hang out together it’s become apparent that a part of them admires us and our sense of purpose and clarity to create an abundant lifestyle, yet another part of them feels a TON of opposition to the way we live.

These issues have even come up a few times in conversation, but it’s usually very quickly brushed under the rug and made clear that money is a very sensitive subject for them.

[B]SO THE QUESTION IS THIS:[/B]

Why do so many people in the yoga community spend so much time focusing on being [B]“health conscious”[/B] and [B]“spiritually conscious”[/B], yet completely NEGLECT and even LOOK DOWN ON others who have taken the time to find balance with [B]“financial consciousness”[/B]?

DESIRE = Unspiritual?
MONEY = Evil?
BUSINESS = Manipulation?

If I had not taken taken the time (YEARS!) to finally “get money right” and heal my yogic mindset around money and desire, I would have FAR less of an ability to personally make a contribution (through my own example) and financially through giving to charity and providing seed capital to conscious businesses who had failed to raise necessary funds from attempting 100% [B]donation based[/B] models?

I am wondering if anyone else here struggles with money and desire in contrast to living a “Yogi Lifestyle” or has run into people who have… and I’d gain tremendous insight if you’d take a moment to post your thoughts, needs and feelings :slight_smile:

Thanks in advance for helping me understand what appears to be a really BIG issue in our community.

Namaste.

-Jimmy

#2

Wow, you just hit the issue spot on didn’t you? No beating around the bush, I like it.

I must admit, I have been somehow “indoctrinated” into the belief that I shouldn’t have wants for a comfortable, easy lifestyle… that my only desire should be for world peace, joy, the end of hunger and poverty, etc.

Not that these aren’t worthy desires to have but I’m with you… if I’m living an abundant lifestyle (where a shortage of money doesn’t pull on me or stress me out all the time) then I can see how that would put me in a position to be more present, less focused on my own drama, and more emotionally available to lend a hand to others, whether through money or my time and energy.

One of my girlfriends from Austin told me a weird story in alignment with the point you’re making. She threw a party one night and invited several of her yogi friends. When they arrived at her swanky, modern pad they were strangely disappointed in her for her extravagant lifestyle. I’m sure they didn’t come out and say that directly but my friend mentioned that they were like, “OMG, I can’t believe how big your house is. I would never want such a big place with such expensive things… I think I’d get more out of traveling or using and sharing my resources in a different way.”

Quick disclaimer… I wasn’t there so I don’t know how much of this was just her own assumptions or what was actually said to her but she definitely felt judged and labelled as different from the “true yogis”. She was actually really upset about it.

Anyway, I personally have been trying to reconcile the law of attraction/abundance mindset with yoga, and they don’t always seem to line up. I’m sure there’s a healthy balance in there somewhere. I do know this much… my internal guidance/gut feeling is that I sure would enjoy less financial stress in my life and the means to travel to see my family more often. If I feel guilt about having that desire or even the desire for a nice, more environmentally friendly car, then something’s not right with my thinking.

Thanks for the food for thought. (:
-Liv

#3

I have had serious battles with money. I watched a fascinating show on (I think) the Discover channel years ago where a scientist used a PET scan (takes images of brain activity) to scan crack addicts who thought they were about to get a hit of crack. A certain population of neurons lit up during that time. The scientist then ran the same scan on stock brokers who thought they were about to make more money. The exact same population of neurons lit up. Point being, making money can be highly addictive.

I’ve felt that addiction. Like you, I’ve done reasonably well for myself. If I scaled my business, I could make a LOT more. One of the battles has been to be ok making a certain amount and spending more time doing what I enjoy and working to make a positive difference in the world. But there’s a voice in my head that says, “If you made MORE money, you could make a BIGGER difference…”

Another battle for me is I didn’t feel one of the ways I was making money was very ethical. For me to be making money how I was meant I wouldn’t be walking the walk, only talking the talk. It has been an extreme battle for me to walk away from that easy money.

Unless you end up in that cave, you pretty much have to play the money game. But it’s what you do with that money. You’re making great money, there’s nothing wrong with that. But I DO get judgmental about $8,000 couches and $200 jeans. It’s just plain not necessary and that money can be put towards making a positive difference. That’s unconscious consumerism and is, in my opinion, an absolute plague on our society. Funny thing is, that judgment is likely me projecting :slight_smile:

Am I projecting? Am I walking the walk? There are times where I’m a hypocrite if I’m not careful and present. But I’ve gotten much better. And I’m about to enter escrow on 100 acres in Hawaii that I’m going to turn into a non-profit retreat center that will have a focus on sustainable living. So while I have work to do, I’m making progress on the whole, “be part of the solution” front.

I call upon you and your wife to be a part of the solution. Let’s walk the walk together.

Much love to you brother.

#4

“Livnyogi” and “David”.

I’m feelin both of ya.

David, I purchased a book I have yet to read called “The Hunger For More-- Searching for values in an age of greed” by Laurence Shames. It’s an old title but a book I decided to pick up to better understand this mindset.

With examples like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet giving away Billions to charity, it definitely raises the bar on what it means to be able to create value (and wealth) and then to “give” back. Like those 2 cats or hate them, they’ve done a lot for this world.

I also hear ya on the part about doing something that feels out of alignment with your ethics and the need to turn away and re-focus on what is right.

I’m so glad both of you posted and that you can relate.

David, I’m especially psyched for you and your Hawaii property. Sounds incredible. Make sure to post on the forum as that vision develops.

I guess to further dig into my reasoning for posting this is that so many yogis seem to want to help the world but don’t even have the funds to donate $20 p/month (just a random fictitious example) to green peace or whatever.

Part of me wonders if there is a “desire” (LOL) in the average yogi mind to rethink “profit” and creating real value in the world or if the belief is honestly rooted in thinking that they can do more for the world by being poor and staying humble and not “feeding” desires?

As for $200 dollar jeans… and the 8K couch scenario… I’ll have to think on that one. Seems to me that I’ve bought many an IKEA product that’s fallen apart or a Target shirt that done the same where as the money I might have spent on something of a higher quality will often times outlast both in wearability or usage than buying 5 of the cheaper models.

It’s a fine line man. Really really fine line. If I was sporting Ralph Laren just to look cool that’s one thing… but if I honestly feel that CK jeans fit me better than say a $25 pair of wranglers I can’t say I’d see it as “consumerism” to pay the extra $100.

If others read this, I’d be super curious on more of the “root” issue of the way they see people who are entrepreneurs, and who enjoy the way it feels to drive a car with some real horse power etc. I get the concept of making money can be addictive, as can seeing the impact of a flood of testimonials from creating a product and seeing people’s lives change. THAT is what I get off on more than anything else. One of the main reasons I like checking email so frequently during the day :slight_smile:

I’d just like to see this “spiritual” minded market embrace business/money with more open arms. I think most sweep this issue under the rug thinking it’s more spiritual to be poor, but that might just be me judging them unnecessarily :wink:

#5

Congrats on Hawaii, how exciting.

Interesting points you’ve made. I am definitely into walking the walk, otherwise that would feel inauthentic and could be really damaging internally. And as within, so without.

At the same time I personally think that moralistic judgments are also self-defeating, however much we feel that they are justified or for a “good cause”. When I judge anyone as doing something that they “should” or “shouldn’t” be doing, my internal guidance immediately and always tells me I’m off track, that the thoughts I’m offering are out of alignment with who I am. Like I’m in someone else’s business, not my own, and so I’ve left my place of power.

I’ve found that walking the walk is more than ME living in alignment with my own values. In fact that seems to be the EASY part. What I find more challenging is making the conscious choice to allow others to live according to their own values without placing judgment on them or labeling them (creating separation versus unity, the old “us versus them” thing).

Byron Katie’s work and ACIM–A Course in Miracles–(among others) has helped me to alleviate my “stories” that cause me stress and drain my prana; and most of the time my most life-sucking stories are those about how others should or shouldn’t be behaving (including spending their own money). People shouldn’t spend $200 on jeans. Is it true? Can we absolutely know it’s true? How do we treat those people when we believe that thought? Who would be we without that thought? (This is all part of “the work” process of Byron Katie’s, which I think is a free download on her site. Life changing stuff.)

One of the reasons I let go of church or any religion in my life was to break free of the whole “holier than thou” tendency, and so I try not to bring it into my yoga practice. I don’t think that’s how the Buddha or Jesus or Krishna or any of the masters would’ve rolled. But, that’s my perspective, however narrow. Hope it’s helpful to those that read this in some small way. (:

#6

Thank you for the suggestion, but I’m SOOOO far behind on my reading right now that I’m not even going to purchase it. Books on raising chickens and permaculture and solar power are taking precedent. Hahah.

Thanks mate. If you’re ever going to be on the big island, you have a place to stay. I’m sincere about that.

[quote=Jimmy;17644]I guess to further dig into my reasoning for posting this is that so many yogis seem to want to help the world but don’t even have the funds to donate $20 p/month (just a random fictitious example) to green peace or whatever.

Part of me wonders if there is a “desire” (LOL) in the average yogi mind to rethink “profit” and creating real value in the world or if the belief is honestly rooted in thinking that they can do more for the world by being poor and staying humble and not “feeding” desires?[/quote]
What I’ve learned is that giving away $1,000,000 doesn’t come close to equaling how much a difference you can make if you truly connect to inner peace. All the money in the world won’t make a bit of difference if it’s going towards symptoms and not the actual issue.

I’ve gone DEEP down the rabbit hole and unraveled MANY layers in my quest for inner peace. The more BS I let go of and the more wisdom I gain, the more compassion and love I feel and the more I want to create space for others to do the same. And yet, I have not fully connected to that inner peace. I know when that moment comes, what I will be able to provide the world will far surpass anything I’ll have provided financially.

There’s part of your problem, you’re shopping at stores that epitomize consumerism and build items to wear out. You’re playing their game. There are plenty of small indy outfits that make AMAZING clothing and AMAZING furniture out of sustainable materials and processes that last a LONG time for MUCH LESS than $200 and $8000 respectively.

You’re looking at it too simplistically though. What goes into making a pair of CK jeans? Are the materials sustainable? Are people paid fair wages to make them? Is there a lot of energy put into shipping them from far away lands? And on and on. We all need clothes, but we have to be conscious of what we are supporting when we make that clothing purchase.

It’s not more spiritual to be financially poor. But many financially poor people are some of the richest people on earth.

#7

You’re absolutely right. Thus my, “I’m probably projecting”. What I mean by projecting is putting MY internal issues on someone else. That’s what I feel is meant by, “Judge not lest ye be judged yourself.” It’s my internal struggle with money and likely something related to it, but a much deeper wound, showing itself.

Indeed. :slight_smile: It’s interesting, I find it extremely easy to accept just about anyone and see them for the amazing person they are. But as soon as the news talks about these bankers and wallstreet greed, I get MAD. This is my internal battle manifesting externally.

[quote=livnyogi;17645]Byron Katie’s work and ACIM–A Course in Miracles–(among others) has helped me to alleviate my “stories” that cause me stress and drain my prana; and most of the time my most life-sucking stories are those about how others should or shouldn’t be behaving (including spending their own money). People shouldn’t spend $200 on jeans. Is it true? Can we absolutely know it’s true? How do we treat those people when we believe that thought? Who would be we without that thought? (This is all part of “the work” process of Byron Katie’s, which I think is a free download on her site. Life changing stuff.)

One of the reasons I let go of church or any religion in my life was to break free of the whole “holier than thou” tendency, and so I try not to bring it into my yoga practice. I don’t think that’s how the Buddha or Jesus or Krishna or any of the masters would’ve rolled. But, that’s my perspective, however narrow. Hope it’s helpful to those that read this in some small way. (:[/quote]
I love the way you are. Thank you such much for sharing. Very helpful indeed! I’m off to meditate on some of it in fact :slight_smile:

hugs

#8

As I understand your question Jimmy

“why do many in the yoga community have a condescending view of those who have balance as a result of financial consciousness?”

The short answer is that they are miseducated or uneducated in the ways of Yoga. Another case could be made that they are militant in their application of those things they (believe they) know of Yoga.

The term yogi is a sacred term so I personally use great care in its usage. Classically a yogi was, in fact a renunciate. However as we gaze around these days there aren’t too many renunciates. It is a tough case to make that one who practices asana (alone) is a yogi. As I’ve stated in several places, Yoga is a vast body of wisdom and one who practices THAT vast body of wisdom may, with great reverence, be called a Yogi.

Furthermore, one who is a Yogi and does practice yoga is guided by the Kleshas, Yamas, and Niyamas. Ergo attachment and aversion are carefully examined as they are obstacles to mindful human evolution AND we examine the nature of our selves in the areas of love (ahimsa), truth (satya), desire (aparigraha), non-stealing (asteya), and wise use of sexual energy (brahmacharya).

Where I believe many practitioners get confused is in the difference between judgement and discernment. The former is about others while the latter is about ourselves. Discernment is critical for a person on the path of yoga to cultivate for without discernment one could not possibly make choices serving their own unique purpose (svadharma).

So exactly how DO we view money in this context?
Having money does not equal “balanced”. Just as money doesn’t equal bad neither does it equal good. It is merely currency and without examining how it is used there is no sound conclusion to be drawn from the having of it other than a proficiency at earning it. The intention for it and how it is used is the only relevant measure.

In Purna Yoga, the yoga in which I practice, train, and teach, the focus is on dharma - our reason for being here. Ergo we have enough money for our dharma, enough food for our dharma, enough home for our dharma…and that dharma is found by connecting with the heart center.

It can be absolutely appropriate to drive around in an old car with a bit of debt and it can be just as appropriate to drive around in a Tesla with a wad of cash.

#9

Namaste Jimmy,

I want to side with IA on the usage of the term yogi. The word yogi imply certain aspects and characteristics, which we hardly see in the west and even the east these days. At best most people today are yoga practitioners and there is a huge difference.

I am a yoga practitioner and teacher on the one hand and on the other hand I am a business owner, (graphic design) who has to “make” it in the business world in order to pay the rent and put food on the table. I make a comfortable life out of my business and it affords me the luxury of:
[ul]
[li]teaching yoga without charging people and arm and a leg for it or even allow people not to pay if they can’t afford it.[/li][li]plenty of time to meditate and add positively to my sadhana on a daily basis.[/li][li]conducting business according to the yamas and niyamas and what I feel is in line with my inner balance and my own consciousness.[/li][li]fulfiling certain karmic debts I have with the many people I get into contact with via my business and being able to recognise that and to positively find closure with the client, without them even being conscious of what was happening.[/li][/ul]I do not have any desire to make more money, but I do have a motivation to keep my business supplying me with enough so that I have the time to reach others spiritually through my yoga. I am grateful for the opportunity I have to be in such a fortunate situation. My question is always how do you use the fortune you have to reach others spiritually? There is enough Bill Gates in the world who give money, but we have a serious lack of spiritual teachers who can guide with integrity. Perhaps you can sponsor one of your “yogi” friends whom you deem to be a great spiritual soul and who can change the lives of others with his/her teachings. Perhaps you can start a retreat centre with all your money, in that way you really touch the souls of people and make a huge difference to the consciousness of this world.

I cannot speak for how other people handle their desires and the conflict it creates within, but I do think that few people are truely honest about it these days.

I would like to conclude with the words of my teacher, Sri Durga to me once: “Willie, you have lived enough in caves and monastries in past incarnations, you need to learn the karma of being in the world but not of it.” Money can so easily allow us to fall into that trap of being of the world. Where do you live, if I may ask?

#10

Pratyahara

#11

Why did the yogi sit on the floor? Because he didn’t have a chair.

Why do so many people in the yoga community spend so much time focusing on being “health conscious” and “spiritually conscious”, yet completely NEGLECT and even LOOK DOWN ON others who have taken the time to find balance with “financial consciousness”?

DESIRE = Unspiritual?
MONEY = Evil?
BUSINESS = Manipulation?

I think there is a lot of political correctness and even bleeding heart liberalism out there. I’m not sure whether or not some yoga practitioners understand the reasoning behind practices like karma yoga (selfless service).

The reason is found in the teaching of guna theory, sattva, rajas, and tamas. There is more than one interpretation of guna theory, but most people who know of it at all know the interpretation given in the Bhagavad Gita.

The unbridled greed and self interest that we’ve been witnessing on wall street is the epitome of the rajasic tendency as taught in the Gita. In the Gita the rajasic tendency is characterized as basically evil, and resulting in continued rebirth in the material world. This is to be overcome with sattva, that is, dispassion, selfless service, knowledge, etc.

So that, I believe, is the explanation of why so many in the yoga community tend to turn their noses up at money.

The Samkhya explanation of guna theory is somewhat different. My personal view based on Samkhya is that the substance of rajas is not necessarily evil, but part of the essence of life.

My question for you is this: can you explain what you meant by “getting money right” ?

#12

Money is an illusion, a potential means to an end, however useful it may be in practical terms( llike helping yourself and others for e.g). Surely you can see that?

if other people don’t chase that illusion , or can see it as such, with that ‘yogic mind-set’ you refer to.then good for them.

#13

Money can be an illusion, and it can be love in action, as Pandara showed.
We should see money always as something what represents personal efforts.

The value of money needs to be learned. Just as there exists true speech, there exists true money too. True money is always backed with honest work. There exists false money, though. All money based on speculation or interest, is false money. Selling your future is false money. America, and the world now pays the price for mixing these two kinds of money. Sadly, not those responsible will pay, but those who work for true money.
Thus, what happens can be rightly called theft on a grand scale.

#14

Hi All-

Thanks for your comments and feedback. Really digging the interaction.

Some of you are pro-forum users. I have no clue how to do the “quote” thing to reply direct to each of you who added to this… so I’ll so my own version :slight_smile:

[B]“David” >[/B] You definitely have a strict set of standards buddy. If only we could consciously consume only sustainable products and services. Ahhh. Wouldn’t that be an amazing economy. I sure hope we as a society can move more and more toward a localized economy over time. Farmers markets and buying local without question pose a limitation to the masses. Thanks buddy!

[B]“InnerAthlete” >[/B] I feel ya buddy. You are very clearly a devoted student of yoga in a very traditional sense. I love the concept of “Dharma”. I suppose the question does arise: What do you do when you help someone discover their Dharma. That will inevitably lead to them at some point in time having to “sell” themselves or their wares in this monetary/material world, which yet again brings up the original topic of “desire” and “money” :slight_smile: Thanks for your input!

[B]“Pandara” >[/B] I hope it’s not about taking sides. Just a discussion really. Congrats on your fortunate situation. In this economy to be “stable” is really an amazing feat! And thank you by the way for your suggestions to sponsor a spiritual teacher and/or to start a retreat. You’ve hit very close to home. However we’d again have to re-approach the topic of profit, business, etc. I can see you have a real reverence for the traditional yogic philosophy and you speak of it eloquently. And to answer your question about where I live… I reside in La Jolla California (15 minutes north of downtown San Diego). Thanks for your feedback as well. Adds a lot of color to the post :slight_smile:

[B]“Asuri” >[/B] Thank you for your perspective as well. I too agree that the latest from Wall Street makes it easier and easier to see what type of game we DO want to play, as they provide very clear examples of what I choose NOT to emulate :slight_smile: Makes my path more clear you might say. There are a LOT of people out there who need help under these conditions. What I really love about what’s going on right now is it’s waking a LOT of people up to their own truth than ever before. Really exciting times. As for your inquiry into what I meant by “getting money right”… I’m referring mostly to the work I’ve done and systems I’ve used to reframe my view of desire/business/profit etc. I’ll see if I can elaborate below in more detail.

And thanks to the rest of you for your input as well.

Here is a slightly more clear direction if you all will oblidge:

[B]I know of someone who’s a yoga instructor. [/B]

She absolutely LOVES to perform and teach yoga. As a single mom with 2 young kids, she teaches 15 classes per week (at various studios around town), want’s so much more from her life (she’s on the verge at any point in time of having to use Credit Cards to make ends meet if anything “extra” were to come up), and is scared to death to promote herself in a way that is outside her comfort zone (teaching in the studio) or to think bigger such as corporate accounts, more private clients, opening up a yoga studio or whatever, as she would have to then embrace “business”, “sales”, “profit” etc.

I know she is not alone and I’m simply curious to see peoples perspective on why it is that our community has such a fear of promoting “transformation” (yoga would fall under that category) and of dealing with money in a money driven world.

I’ve been through this exact process on my own and have developed a formula/system (with the help of some key mentors) to find balance with this.

Had that not happened I’d still be punching a time clock and renting my life away to an employer with no control whatsoever of my time or income. Had I not broken out of my normal mode of “playing safe”, I’d have been WAY less likely to blaze a new trail and overcome my fear of selling, of business and of promoting things I’d gained faith in personally and that I felt could help others.

Since going through this metamorphosis, I’ve been able to engineer my life in a way where my impact is 1000% more than before, my income has gone WAY up, my ability to give and receive has without question become more balanced (the receiving part was always a sticking point for me prior to this change), and now I suppose I’m looking back and wondering who else can relate.

At some point we all will ask ourselves: Am I playing my biggest game? Am I really being compensated for the value I create inside this company/organization? Does what I spend the majority of my time doing to make ends meet line up with what I stand for?

These are questions I have and will continue to have, albeit my context has changed dramatically since branching out into promotions/sales/business etc. It’s an ongoing process to re-asses.

I’m just a big proponent of engineering my life so that it doesn’t feel like “work” in the general sense.

I suppose this is an indirect poll to learn about what others feel is their root of resistance towards “abundance”, “the function of business”, “the function of sales”, “the function providing a service at a profit” etc.

Another good one is how does [B]yoga[/B] and the [B]law of attraction[/B] fit into this whole equation?

#15

Jimmy said: “InnerAthlete” > I feel ya buddy. You are very clearly a devoted student of yoga in a very traditional sense. I love the concept of “Dharma”. I suppose the question does arise: What do you do when you help someone discover their Dharma. That will inevitably lead to them at some point in time having to “sell” themselves or their wares in this monetary/material world, which yet again brings up the original topic of “desire” and “money” Thanks for your input!

Point missed. Having money, fine. Having it from the desire and craving which is vocalized by the vital nature, not so. Having it because it is one of a myriad of experiences you are here to have (at the soul level not the intellect), fine.

My job is exactly that - to help my students realize their individual dharma AND pursue it. That applies to you for wealth and your mat-neighbor for the peace corp. Both are in integrity when they align with your soul’s purpose for being in the physical body. Neither are in integrity when they are not and come from “desire” or “wanting” as that, energetically is from the craving of the vital nature or pelvic force. It is not, therefore a heart-centered approach.

Re: your teacher friend…her’s is not a position that I, as a Purna Yoga teacher would advocate (unless of course her soul was very wealthy in a previous life and was merely here to experience poverty - dharma). There is no yogic principle that condones poverty consciousness. So as that teacher’s teacher it would be my task to help her confront the blocks keeping her from her dharma (unless she’s already living it).

As I’ve said, being wealthy and being a pompous ass is no different than being a poor pompous ass. Flaunting one’s spirituality at the expense of fiscal integrity is a lack of awareness, not a higher plane.

How you chose to engineer your life, fine. Presuming it must be the way everyone else engineers theirs, dogmatic.

#16

Hi Jimmy,

No, it is not about sides, it is about how I see it and what I feel is right for me, in other words my Truth, which is not yours or that of anyone else on this Forum or this world.

No need to extend congratulations for my “fortunate” situation, it is my karma and I live with it and try to understand it in the bigger scheme of how I can use it for the upliftment of all on this planet. But thanks anyway, accepted with grace.

You unfortunately completely missed my point on where you live, I am not interested in your physical location, but then again you have already answered me. :slight_smile:

About business, profits etc - it is simple, if it is in your karma to have it all, then it is your karma and live with it, if not, well deal with that as well, there are reasons and we all need to understand the lessons attached to our karma in our own way.

Hope that clarify some of the points from my side.

#17

I think of the question “what would the world be like if everyone lived like me” If everyone drove a car, had a huge house, bought 6000 couches, well the world woudl be like it is turning out, highly polluted.

It also is pushing people out of the world. Meaning if you dont have a computer you now have a disadvantage, this is happening to poor kids in public school where it is almost required to have a computer for homework assignments. So now we force them to sit in front of a computer screen and absorb the energy from it, we force them to sit for hours a day when the body was meant for standing.

So with the current structure of our collective system many challenges are on the rise, ADHD, autism, various learning disabilities, etc… however that is also leading to people getting more educated about life, things such as organic eating, health, going green etc… When you hit rock bottom there is good news, we can now go up.

SO what would the world be like if everyone did as me. For it is me and only me that I am accountable for, I am a role model to whoever watches my life and that is everyone that sees me.
I dream of the day where all computers shut down, not because of a virus, because we choose to leave them behind
that is my dream
Thanks for the conversation and allowing me to share
brother Neil

#18

[quote=Hubert;17785]Money can be an illusion, and it can be love in action, as Pandara showed.
We should see money always as something what represents personal efforts.

The value of money needs to be learned. Just as there exists true speech, there exists true money too. True money is always backed with honest work. There exists false money, though. All money based on speculation or interest, is false money. Selling your future is false money. America, and the world now pays the price for mixing these two kinds of money. Sadly, not those responsible will pay, but those who work for true money.
Thus, what happens can be rightly called theft on a grand scale.[/quote]

I agree with all of this particularly the first paragraph- it can be love in action and should be seen as something that represents personal efforts.

It’d be good to have the skill to balance the ability to earn this currency with that of altering the consciousness of the planet, to effect real change and do real good with it.

Yeah,It’s a nice feeling ,that.

Now, this sounds like a good idea.I like this one!

I sense veiled beneath thE OP post perhaps a lack of satisfaction with money, a vacuum of a sort.Perhaps you are indeed searching for something more, in life.? because i believe there is …a great deal more.Perhpas you see your yogi instructir friends, and wonder how do they manage without money ( or desire), these kind of trappings,why are they content without it?It has it’s uses but seeing it as an end in itself looks like a trap…I just don’t see how it could ever satisfy,especially say if you are not well enough to enjoy it.

I do agree-It is what you do with it that counts.Investing it in soomething interesting like a retreat sounds like a great idea.:grin: Yogi’s are not at war. They are just not interested, it’s not an issue, , if it’s beyond material accumulation and the security of weallth,unless it serves a purpose.
You know how much satisfaction one derives from giving.

It is ‘money’ in the normal sense of the word that ‘yogi’s’ ( this was also a word i was inttroduced to recently and it did sound a bit odd i’ll admit in context at first.tho, i guess i’ve got used to it), or yoga practitoners, are not interested in.

true money is karma yoga in action.The problem is if you have great ability to earn this courrency but little wisdom to do great things with it. I believe Warren buffett and bill gates eventually gave alot a way,embraced philanthropy, because they could’nt go to their graves not having given back somewhow and meaningfully contributed- they naturally are forced to come to terms with this,later on in life.If it was’nt them it’d be someone else, to drop out of uni and build their empire singlemindedly , which is’nt a bad thing, at a young age…And bernard maddof- he was another false and dishonest money man that fell temptation to greed- either tried to dupe or self-con himself or he really did’nt care which is equally quite possible.

I’m sure you are aware of the delusions that money brings . Money is I agree useful but it is very liberating to be free of of feeling bondage to it,like anything else in life. chasing after it more as an end in itself.

I think thinking about investing ina retreat or simliar project is a great idea.!!You might end up gettting more than you bargained for,…a whole lot more.

#19

The problem is not the money but the attachment to the money and material things.

Verse 142 from the Dhammapada of Lord Buddha:

But the one who lives purely
and is calm and controlled
In quietness and virtue
The one who does not harm others
EVEN IF WEARING FINE CLOTHES
So long as faith abounds,
A being like this is awake.

I posted before an explanation of why DESIRE (NOT POSSESSION) for material things are
an obstacle toward union with God. The expalnation was given by Yogananda in the
book “Hidden Teachings of Jesus Christ.” It is that the lifetrons of life energy are contracted. This was probably in the thread “Yoga and Christianity.”

#20

If the money is the origin of all evils, what is the origin of money ?
Heinrich Heine