Yogis at WAR with Money & Desire?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#18

[quote=Hubert;17785]Money can be an illusion, and it can be love in action, as Pandara showed.
We should see money always as something what represents personal efforts.

The value of money needs to be learned. Just as there exists true speech, there exists true money too. True money is always backed with honest work. There exists false money, though. All money based on speculation or interest, is false money. Selling your future is false money. America, and the world now pays the price for mixing these two kinds of money. Sadly, not those responsible will pay, but those who work for true money.
Thus, what happens can be rightly called theft on a grand scale.[/quote]

I agree with all of this particularly the first paragraph- it can be love in action and should be seen as something that represents personal efforts.

It’d be good to have the skill to balance the ability to earn this currency with that of altering the consciousness of the planet, to effect real change and do real good with it.

Yeah,It’s a nice feeling ,that.

Now, this sounds like a good idea.I like this one!

I sense veiled beneath thE OP post perhaps a lack of satisfaction with money, a vacuum of a sort.Perhaps you are indeed searching for something more, in life.? because i believe there is …a great deal more.Perhpas you see your yogi instructir friends, and wonder how do they manage without money ( or desire), these kind of trappings,why are they content without it?It has it’s uses but seeing it as an end in itself looks like a trap…I just don’t see how it could ever satisfy,especially say if you are not well enough to enjoy it.

I do agree-It is what you do with it that counts.Investing it in soomething interesting like a retreat sounds like a great idea.:grin: Yogi’s are not at war. They are just not interested, it’s not an issue, , if it’s beyond material accumulation and the security of weallth,unless it serves a purpose.
You know how much satisfaction one derives from giving.

It is ‘money’ in the normal sense of the word that ‘yogi’s’ ( this was also a word i was inttroduced to recently and it did sound a bit odd i’ll admit in context at first.tho, i guess i’ve got used to it), or yoga practitoners, are not interested in.

true money is karma yoga in action.The problem is if you have great ability to earn this courrency but little wisdom to do great things with it. I believe Warren buffett and bill gates eventually gave alot a way,embraced philanthropy, because they could’nt go to their graves not having given back somewhow and meaningfully contributed- they naturally are forced to come to terms with this,later on in life.If it was’nt them it’d be someone else, to drop out of uni and build their empire singlemindedly , which is’nt a bad thing, at a young age…And bernard maddof- he was another false and dishonest money man that fell temptation to greed- either tried to dupe or self-con himself or he really did’nt care which is equally quite possible.

I’m sure you are aware of the delusions that money brings . Money is I agree useful but it is very liberating to be free of of feeling bondage to it,like anything else in life. chasing after it more as an end in itself.

I think thinking about investing ina retreat or simliar project is a great idea.!!You might end up gettting more than you bargained for,…a whole lot more.

#19

The problem is not the money but the attachment to the money and material things.

Verse 142 from the Dhammapada of Lord Buddha:

But the one who lives purely
and is calm and controlled
In quietness and virtue
The one who does not harm others
EVEN IF WEARING FINE CLOTHES
So long as faith abounds,
A being like this is awake.

I posted before an explanation of why DESIRE (NOT POSSESSION) for material things are
an obstacle toward union with God. The expalnation was given by Yogananda in the
book “Hidden Teachings of Jesus Christ.” It is that the lifetrons of life energy are contracted. This was probably in the thread “Yoga and Christianity.”

#20

If the money is the origin of all evils, what is the origin of money ?
Heinrich Heine

#21

A lot of people get caught up in money and power and start to forget the spirit. In such cases they will do anything to get their money fix. We can see this with our current financial mess. The Wall Street crowd had “get all the money I can and the hell with everyone else” on their mind it seems.

Myself …I like money, but am low capacity with my limited money making potential. So I make due with my limited means. What I do is to try and balance and limit my attachments with the teachings of impermanence and non attachments. It helps with being at peace most of the time with family and life.

Developing a good vipassana practice of seeing things clearly is very important. This insight meditation practice deals with seeing things in terms of impermanence, suffering and non-self. Seeing things for what they are helps prevent further uprising of new passions from ignorance. But, it is still up to use individually to decide on how many attachments and desires we wish to have in our life.

The life the contemplative or renunciate must live is not practical for ALL to live. The Buddha did not work or produce any goods or services other than generate wisdom for peace development. He depended on others to feed him as the monks of that time just begged for food and did not work.

We cannot all be Buddhist monks and nuns and beg from each other for food. No one would reproduce sexually and our species would die out. Yes, a few of society can become renunciates to gain insight, but not the whole of the population can do it and expect the society to flourish. If nothing else we would be overrun with bugs! (Buddhists tend to dislike killing them.)

Myself? I seek balance. I am at peace 80% to 90% of the time if I work my practice and recovery program and accept this is as good as it gets with living a normal or close to normal life. I have a family and have to live within and work with society, so I work to balance attachments with that of inner peace.

I realize that excessive attachments and desires kills peace and causes us blindness and this blindness can lead to further wrong actions which destroys my inner peace and it can snowball from there. So, I limit attachments and desires. But, I do not go to the other extreme of trying to live a life of no attachments or desires whatever. I have come to a point in my life and practice where I am satisfied and content as-is.

#22

[QUOTE=keepitlow;18214]A lot of people get caught up in money and power and start to forget the spirit. In such cases they will do anything to get their money fix. We can see this with our current financial mess. The Wall Street crowd had “get all the money I can and the hell with everyone else” on their mind it seems.

Myself …I like money, but am low capacity with my limited money making potential. So I make due with my limited means. What I do is to try and balance and limit my attachments with the teachings of impermanence and non attachments. It helps with being at peace most of the time with family and life.

Developing a good vipassana practice of seeing things clearly is very important. This insight meditation practice deals with seeing things in terms of impermanence, suffering and non-self. Seeing things for what they are helps prevent further uprising of new passions from ignorance. But, it is still up to use individually to decide on how many attachments and desires we wish to have in our life.

.[/QUOTE]

Dhammapada of Lord Buddha

   Verse 366

For even if you have few possessions,
but use them well,
and live your life with moderation,
many will praise your virtue.

Actually the whole Chapter 25- The Seeker, deals with this subject.

#23

Money

Money, money, money
I don’t keep you holy,
But I am ever asking,
How you get out so fast,
When you come in so slowly ?

#24

Some confuse money with wealth.

Alan Watts

#25

[QUOTE=core789;18366]Some confuse money with wealth.

Alan Watts[/QUOTE]

Maybe. Another quip:

“Money is not everything. There are also jewels, gold, stocks bonds, etc…”

#26

[quote=oak333;18374]Maybe. Another quip:

“Money is not everything. There are also jewels, gold, stocks bonds, etc…”[/quote]

Still ‘money’.Still ,good one!
Mahatma Gandhi,perhaps ?

#27

I’m a business owner who discovered yoga 3 1/2 years ago while on retreat in Mexico. Prior to that, I thought yoga was for hippies and old chicks. But, my experience took me to a level that was unexpected and I’ve grown to love it.

I’m in an ‘upper’ bracket income. Recently, I started to work on a business plan to start a chain of yoga studios directed primarily at people like me! People that are physically active, have been told that yoga is great for relieving stress, great for flexibilty, balance, strength, etc., but are either disinclined or intimidated to try yoga.

I want to lower the barriers to entry so that these people can practice yoga without having to chant or buy into the ‘religion’ of yoga. My feasiblility study shows that this would be extremely profitable, if marketed properly. I am also thinking of producing my own label brand of clothing and products.

Needless to say, this is met with resounding resistance from the yoga community here. Although I am finding like-minded instructors willing to consider partnering with me, I am astounded by the close-mindedness of yoga people who pride themselves with being the opposite. I had a ‘conversation’ with one last week in which the word ‘authenticity’ was used. I thought “hey, you’re a white person who did a couple of hundred hours of training and spent 2 weeks in India. What you are really talking about is degrees of authenticity.”

The Canadian Yoga Alliance actually has a webpage called a ‘manifesto’ (wow) in which the commercialization of yoga is sternly rebuked. I keep thinking, Sri Krishna Pattabhi Jois is in Mysore with his kids and grandkids, and are extreme millionaires. Where is the fairness in that.

I remain undeterred…

#28

I know, you could call it “Superficial Yoga”.

#29

I’ve been under the impression that folks who love yoga want to be (or seem to be) a contribution to a fair and compassionate world. There have been so many examples of businesses that are not, it is fair to regard all of capitalism with suspicion.
My question about money, when someone has plenty of it, is generally ‘where did it come from, and where is it going’?
When one businessman makes enough to support a $30k/month lifestyle (which is less extravagant near San Diego than it would be in my own Salem, OR), how much does the least paid full time employee at the same company make? (or, does the company practice the vile habit of hiring a disproportionate number of part time employees so as to avoid providing health benefits?)
And then, (to use the couch example) when this person pays $8000 for a couch, is it because a craftsman worked on it exclusively for two and a half months? Or is it because another wealthy person owns a company with a big name, and it is another wealthy person that will benefit the most from that purchase?

All our interactions with the rest of the world, including our financial interactions, are ours in a special way. (Some call it karma; I tend to think of the Pearly Gates.) The greater context of spirit and the ability of others to live within the world we hep create should bear influence on those interactions.

By the way, Jimmy, when you replied to David with:
Farmers markets and buying local without question pose a limitation to the masses.

Does this limitation to the masses keep you from making these “local and sustainable” choices? If so, please read a critical biography of Thomas Jefferson – one that has at least a chapter dedicated to how well he knew that slavery was wrong, but allowed himself to be dragged along by the masses into holding others in bondage.

#30

Just read a good book that hits on this (and then some!): [B]Yoga, Inc. by John Philp[/B]. Worth checking out.

To touch upon FlexPenguin’s post, one of the points in the book was about how the students of a particular studio were complaining about it being bought out by a chain and the “financial” aspects of the yoga supposed to being unimportant… but the yoga instructor who happily acquired this financial backing pointed out that the students still want a nice bright clean studio, clean floors, clean mats etc, and like it or not that takes money!

#31

[quote=FlexPenguin;18515]I’m in an ‘upper’ bracket income. Recently, I started to work on a business plan to start a chain of yoga studios directed primarily at people like me!

My feasiblility study shows that this would be extremely profitable, if marketed properly. I am also thinking of producing my own label brand of clothing and products.

Needless to say, this is met with resounding resistance from the yoga community here…[/quote]

Flexpenguin, the problem for me with your post is that it smells of greed and as such this is where I have a problem with people using yoga to feed their greed, no matter if it is you or Pattabhi Jois or who ever.

Instead of building a yoga business where you cater for your rich upper bracket income clients with an exclusive range of designer wear (I again smell greed as motivation), why not go through this Forum, there are many posts where people complain that they cannot afford the fees that many yoga studios charge for yoga. Your plan will again exclude so many, rather than include them. Perhaps you can PM many of these people and invest your money in sponsoring some of them. But then again you won’t see it as an investment, because there is no “extremely profitable” prospect here.

I think the resounding resistance from your local yoga community has much more to do with the fact that they can smell the greed for profit here as motivation.

#32

[QUOTE=Pandara;18520]Flexpenguin, the problem for me with your post is that it smells of greed and as such this is where I have a problem with people using yoga to feed their greed, no matter if it is you or Pattabhi Jois or who ever.

Instead of building a yoga business where you cater for your rich upper bracket income clients with an exclusive range of designer wear (I again smell greed as motivation), why not go through this Forum, there are many posts where people complain that they cannot afford the fees that many yoga studios charge for yoga. Your plan will again exclude so many, rather than include them. Perhaps you can PM many of these people and invest your money in sponsoring some of them. But then again you won’t see it as an investment, because there is no “extremely profitable” prospect here.

I think the resounding resistance from your local yoga community has much more to do with the fact that they can smell the greed for profit here as motivation.[/QUOTE]

And I guess by your outlook profit is a four letter word? What I see is an opportunity to turn-on a whole spectrum of people to a practice that may be enriching, you see as greed. What I see as an opportunity to employ a whole bunch of under-employed instructors who want to teach. Americans spent 27 billion dollars on yoga related products last year. Why not give studio employees an opportunity to gain from that?

Yes, I may appear opportunistic. But not all opportunity is motivated solely by greed. Besides, I would rather be opportunistic than judgemental.

#33

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Welcome to Kaliyuga everyone :slight_smile:

#34

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;18531]And I guess by your outlook profit is a four letter word? What I see is an opportunity to turn-on a whole spectrum of people to a practice that may be enriching, you see as greed. What I see as an opportunity to employ a whole bunch of under-employed instructors who want to teach. Americans spent 27 billion dollars on yoga related products last year. Why not give studio employees an opportunity to gain from that?
[/QUOTE]

Karma Yoga (Kaliyuga style)

#35

[QUOTE=livnyogi;17645]Congrats on Hawaii, how exciting.
One of the reasons I let go of church or any religion in my life was to break free of the whole “holier than thou” tendency, and so I try not to bring it into my yoga practice. I don’t think that’s how the Buddha or Jesus or Krishna or any of the masters would’ve rolled. But, that’s my perspective, however narrow. Hope it’s helpful to those that read this in some small way. (:[/QUOTE]

It’s regretful that yoga in the west seems to be mirroring the path of christianity and the churches. I see yogis (gurus) living in luxury while their practitioners (followers) go from paycheque to paycheque trying to pay the rent. I also see ‘styles’ of yoga practice at war with other ‘styles’ in an effort to be the one true practice.

The genie is out of the bottle. Practicing yoga asanas make you feel good. If that leads to more - that’s a good thing. Opening the doors will not dilute yoga. It will enrich it.

Namaste, and thank you.

#36

Asking those on the path of yoga to have a balanced position, to be open and accepting, to look at all sides, that is a reasonable expectation. And we should live up to that request. This includes financial integrity.

Those on path, shoving away the concept of fiscal integrity, would appear to be adhering to the same concept as those on the path shoving away the deeper philosophies of Yoga (mentioned above as chanting and “religion”).

It is the same dogma expressed through a different medium - one through the lack of fiscal integrity or shunning of money (where it is clearly needed) and the other a shunning of Yoga. Neither is a position of balance. Ergo both are mirroring the same concept for each other.

It’s a fecund opportunity to grow as human beings, to evolve mindfully. And that is what Yoga is about. Opening muscle tissue, relieving stress which stems only from our choices, and cultivating strength…these things are merely the shiny coating. Necessary but not important and certainly NOT the definition of Yoga.

Intention relative to svadharma is the key. But alas, one only studying trikonasana would have no idea what this means. We each have a unique purpose for being here. Having those things that facilitate that purpose is appropriate. Having more or less is not. And the ego must be transformed for it can deceive as to the nature of the purpose. It is a crafty feller.

#37

IMHO opening a “yoga business” is better than no yoga. Once you keep practising yoga,
(i. e. basically asanas, meditation, relaxation techniques), slowly, slowly you open up for
higher forms of yoga.

FlexPenguin is right: there are yoga teachers who are millionares. The yoga guru who introduced TM (Transcendental Meditation) was actually a billionaire. Baba Ramdev I think is the owner of an ayurveda medicine factory with 150 people (wikipedia). But they do or did a lot of good. How they use their money is another question.

Money in itself is not the problem. How much you are attached to the money and how you use the money…this is the problem.