Yogis at WAR with Money & Desire?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#41

[quote=FlexPenguin;18531]And I guess by your outlook profit is a four letter word? What I see is an opportunity to turn-on a whole spectrum of people to a practice that may be enriching, you see as greed. What I see as an opportunity to employ a whole bunch of under-employed instructors who want to teach. Americans spent 27 billion dollars on yoga related products last year. Why not give studio employees an opportunity to gain from that?

Yes, I may appear opportunistic. But not all opportunity is motivated solely by greed. Besides, I would rather be opportunistic than judgemental.[/quote]

I really have a problem with people using yoga to line their own pockets no matter who that is. And if you see that as judgemental, then be it so.

You outlined a very noble reason for starting this, helping others, especially the teachers, I really hope that they will see the majority of the profits of your endeavour in their pockets and not the other way around, but that will be for you to decide I guess.

#42

[QUOTE=oak333;18536]IMHO opening a “yoga business” is better than no yoga. Once you keep practising yoga,
(i. e. basically asanas, meditation, relaxation techniques), slowly, slowly you open up for
higher forms of yoga.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

People are more body conscious today than Self conscious so they are only interested in what yoga can do to their body.

After almost reviving yoga in India Swami Ramdev is now eyeing China

#43

To return to Jimmy’s original question: it seems that the origin of the “money = bad” sentiment as it pertains to modern yoga began in the mid to late 19th century when yoga was first introduced in America. Centred in New York, Boston and San Francisco, it was endorsed by the liberal elite on the far left at that time. They were also very sympathetic to communist ideals and embraced yoga as a tool against the increasing American capitalist tide. This relationship was resurrected in the 1960s when yoga again gained universal popularity (although John Lennon saw through all that).

What I find a bit amusing is that when one studies the origins of yoga, there really is no traditional yoga at all. Yoga has evolved through the ages and became whatever the culture embracing it at the time wanted it to be. Plus, the spread of yoga globally - begining in the 18th century - was always motivated by profit. What was done with the profit is another thing entirely.

I practice the asanas of Ashtanga yoga. It is only one of eight arms of yoga. Profiting, enabling others to profit or not profit, is irrelevant to yoga as a whole. My studio is only a place where one can practice the asanas. Where and when one can practice the other seven arms is another matter entirely - and probably deserves a thread of its own.

In reality, yoga as it exists today is a misnomer.

#44

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;18567]
What I find a bit amusing is that when one studies the origins of yoga, there really is no traditional yoga at all. [/QUOTE]

I’m flabbergasted. My pet peeve is people who think they can make yoga anything they want it to be, because they are ignorant of what traditional yoga really is.

That being said, I don’t have a problem with someone providing a place for people to do asanas, or making some money in the process.

#45

[QUOTE=Asuri;18603]I’m flabbergasted. My pet peeve is people who think they can make yoga anything they want it to be, because they are ignorant of what traditional yoga really is.[/QUOTE]

Most of the yoga practiced today in studios around the world were developed over the last 50 - 70 years. Modern Ashtanga, Iyengar, and Bikram coming especially to mind. They made yoga what they wanted it to be, so are they included?

I am still unsure what is meant by traditional yoga. I do hear a lot about what yoga is ‘supposed’ to be. From what I have learned, it is a personal journey unrelated to what the other guy is doing.

Yoga is more like music than religion. Classical music lovers do not have a fondness for modern rock music - but it’s all music!

#46

Simultaneously the lessons of yama and niyama are illustrated fairly well on the mat. Separate asana from them – or hire yoga teachers who do so – and you’ll find yourself in a world of hurt.

#47

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;18567]

In reality, yoga as it exists today is a misnomer.[/QUOTE]

No, yoga is NOT a misnomer. The very meaning of the word “yoga” is union with God.

Many people confuse yoga with physical exercises, asanas. Even the yooga asanas are NOT just physical exercises. They induce biochemical, psycho-psychological and other transformations. Look at the classic “Hatha Yoga Pradipika” below and scroll down to the pragraph Asanas.

http://www.yoga-age.com/pradipika/part1.html

You can read on this forum threads like “the orign of yoga” or “the origin of ancient yoga.” There are also books with this subject.

The fact of the matter is that only a few people know the real secrets of yoga. They seem to be all in India and Tibet.

These secrets are transmitted orally from guru to disciple. Reason: these secrets can you give unusual powers. People of lesser morality could use them
for personal benefits.

It looks like some people “develop” new methods in yoga. It can be bona fide or not. Some of these “developments” are pursued just for personal benefits.

The real, complete, old yoga is known to only a few. And all of these few are
strong believers in God, pursuing no personal benefits.

#48

[QUOTE=Techne;18623]Simultaneously the lessons of yama and niyama are illustrated fairly well on the mat. Separate asana from them – or hire yoga teachers who do so – and you’ll find yourself in a world of hurt.[/QUOTE]

Well said, Techne.

#49

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;18615]Most of the yoga practiced today in studios around the world were developed over the last 50 - 70 years. Modern Ashtanga, Iyengar, and Bikram coming especially to mind. They made yoga what they wanted it to be, so are they included?

I am still unsure what is meant by traditional yoga. I do hear a lot about what yoga is ‘supposed’ to be. From what I have learned, it is a personal journey unrelated to what the other guy is doing.
[/QUOTE]

I’m more familiar with Iyengar than the others, and I know that BKS Iyengar practiced all of the classic asanas that have come down to us over a long period of time.

I’m kind of speaking off the top of my head here. Probably classical yoga is a better term than traditional yoga, because there is more than one tradition in yoga. Iyengar, Bikram, and Ashtanga can probably be considered modern traditions. I don’t know about Ashtanga, but Bikram and Iyengar traditions started from a master teacher, and that is probably a good definition of a tradition or lineage in yoga.

Even some of the classical texts are associated with a master teacher (Patanjali, Kapila), although when you get into some of the practices taught in the Upanishads, the teachers are in many cases anonymous.

I think my point is that, traditionally, a yoga organization has been associated with a master teacher and practitioner.

#50

[QUOTE=Asuri;18633] I don’t know about Ashtanga, but Bikram and Iyengar traditions started from a master teacher, and that is probably a good definition of a tradition or lineage in yoga.[/QUOTE]

From the many sources I’ve read, Pattabhi Jois (founder of modern Ashtanga), Iyengar, Indra Devi and T.K.V. Desikachar were pupils of Krishnamacharya (yogi to the maharaja in Mysore) in the 1920s and 30s. Bikram was a pupil of Desikachar. Iyengar first preached in the US in 1955. Devi went on to school a bunch of hollywood actors and actresses. We know what became of Bikram.

Tieing back to the original question in this thread, all these men eventually developed their own brand of yoga leading to riches beyond the dreams of avarice. Does this make them illegitimate?

My feeling is this: every person practices yoga seeking different ends. Yoga is only a way of being. The excercises are but a part of the whole. We in western culture are only snacking on yoga. To experience the whole, you must be prepared to have the entire meal. I’m not sure there are many that can. In the meantime, I will enjoy what I can. I am sure as deep as my DNA that Yoga will not mind, as long as I do no harm.

#51

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;18635] In the meantime, I will enjoy what I can. I am sure as deep as my DNA that Yoga will not mind, as long as I do no harm.[/QUOTE]

This is closer. Enjoy your yoga.

#52

FlexPenguin: So freaking glad you posted! Feelin ya! My thoughts are that there is a slow but progressive split that is forming in this community. On one side you have people that embrace living life without resistance to money and you have the other side who will continue to grapple with it. Love your point about Pattabhi Jois. Same could be said about Yogananda.

Missi: Thanks for the recommendation. Already bought the book. It’s on the way thanks to Amazon. :slight_smile:

Techne: You bring up some great points. Business is a funky world to navigate. So many choices. So many short cuts one can take to increase profits that cut someone out. It’s a consciousness decision. Karma or the Pearly Gates as you say. I feel ya. It’s a personal journey no doubt.

keepitlow: So glad you’ve found peace and balance. An amazing feat! I’m personally a self-improvement junkie by choice. Love moving the line of what’s possible and that always leads me to having to stare money in the face a lot :slight_smile: Thanks so much for your input.

core789: I have no idea how you do that “quote” thing. I’m not very technically inclined. I can see that I can do a quote reply, but it puts the whole message in the reply? Anyway… I’ll figure it out at some point when I care to spend the time. Love your thoughts man. I’m cracking up about you mentioning the underlying suspicion that I might be seeing the lack of “satisfaction” in money. Totally with ya. It’s actually top of mind. I realized about 2 years ago that as much as money could get rid of a lot of problems and provide some incredible opportunities/experiences… seeking more money is NOT the point. I’m totally clear on that. Can’t remember where, but I recently read something about what we crave is “Experience” more than anything else. I’m in agreement personally. Thanks for all your feedback and communication. Great stuff!

Pandara: Cool. :slight_smile: Namaste.

InnerAthlete: I’m inspired by how deep you take things. Rad! Thanks in advance for all you do for those here and all your students. I know from the little bit that I’ve read from you that you are making a HUGE impact!

To all who care to continue with this…

I think I’ve finally isolated my real post topic:

[B]Does the Law of Attraction mesh with Yogic Philosophy?[/B]

#53

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;18534]It’s regretful that yoga in the west seems to be mirroring the path of christianity and the churches. I see yogis (gurus) living in luxury while their practitioners (followers) go from paycheque to paycheque trying to pay the rent. I also see ‘styles’ of yoga practice at war with other ‘styles’ in an effort to be the one true practice.

The genie is out of the bottle. Practicing yoga asanas make you feel good. If that leads to more - that’s a good thing. Opening the doors will not dilute yoga. It will enrich it.

Namaste, and thank you.[/QUOTE]
Ah, flexpenguin, you’re speakin’ ma language. What I’m sure about it I’m not trying to change anyone’s minds. I’m just looking for like minded people to hang with and do great things with. And you, I’d call a match! :slight_smile: Looking forward to connecting further and finding out what projects you’re working on.

Thanks for sharing here so openly and authentically. It doesn’t go unnoticed.

#54

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;18635]
Tieing back to the original question in this thread, all these men eventually developed their own brand of yoga leading to riches beyond the dreams of avarice. Does this make them illegitimate?
[/QUOTE]

The obvious answer is no. And we have to recognize that these men did not follow the path of the renunciate. But, you may ask, if classical yoga is about liberation, how can these yogis claim to be legitimate? My feeling is that most people who practice yoga in some form or other are not seeking liberation, and yes, there is a legitimate yoga for them, but one has to dig a little deeper to find it.

It is one thing for an extraordinary yogi like BKS Iyengar to have financial success, but it is something else again for a commercial interest to come along and try to exploit a trend.

Ownership of capital alone does not make you right or righteous, although there will be plenty of people around to tell you how wonderful you are. To illustrate my point, during the course of his presidency, many universities are likely to give Barack Obama honorary degrees. But those degrees won’t make him a medical doctor, or a physicist, or an engineer. All of the praise will not make him anything but a successful politician.

FlexPenguin, you seem to be sincere in your appreciation of yoga. There is no reason why anyone should wish you anything but success in your venture. Good luck.

#55

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;18615]

I am still unsure what is meant by traditional yoga. I do hear a lot about what yoga is ‘supposed’ to be. From what I have learned, it is a personal journey unrelated to what the other guy is doing.

[/QUOTE]

You can see in the newsstands many “yoga” magazines which, on the front cover, have beuatiful girls exercising in gracious positions, uplifting your pious
thoughts.

I suppose this is not “traditional yoga.”

#56

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;18635]…all these men eventually developed their own brand of yoga leading to riches beyond the dreams of avarice. Does this make them illegitimate?..[/QUOTE]

I believe this misses the middle of the story and uses only the last chapter’s residue for its proving. Thus it is embodies misunderstanding or manipulation.

A person who holds yoga with integrity and prospers in accord with their particular dharma obviously reflects legitimacy. That person is living yoga which facilitates teaching yoga. As I do not know the individual dharma of Devi, Jois, and Iyengar I simply could not say whether their prosperity had any bearing whatsoever on their legitimacy.

If the intention was to spread yoga for human kind and wealth came of it, so be it. If the intention was only to amass wealth and popularity then I’d have my doubts - which you don’t need to share.

There is a lot of information that has not been unearthed in the quest for knowledge. Did you know Iyengar had legal issues over income earned from revenues abroad? My guess is that you’d have no idea that he needed a very famous Indian lawyer to help him - pro bono - and that his students actually built the Iyengar institute in Pune. Instead most see only what they want to see, only what is supported by topsoil google searches and word-of mouth conversations about lineage at the local Starbucks.

#57

I’m late arriving to this thread but I’ve got to say, its one of the most thought provoking, soul searching ones I’ve seen in my short time on these boards. Thanks to Jimmy for getting this one started.

#58

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;19469]If the intention was to spread yoga for human kind and wealth came of it, so be it. If the intention was only to amass wealth and popularity then I’d have my doubts - which you don’t need to share.[/QUOTE]

This actually speaks to my point and the ‘middle of the story’ exactly. I was not being critical of the men who mastered, shared, and became enriched by their techniques. Only that they did and were. I’m pretty sure these guys didn’t sit around drinking spiked tea working out how to get rich off of yoga.

#59

[quote=FlexPenguin;18534]It’s regretful that yoga in the west seems to be mirroring the path of christianity and the churches. I see yogis (gurus) living in luxury while their practitioners (followers) go from paycheque to paycheque trying to pay the rent. I also see ‘styles’ of yoga practice at war with other ‘styles’ in an effort to be the one true practice.

The genie is out of the bottle. Practicing yoga asanas make you feel good. If that leads to more - that’s a good thing. Opening the doors will not dilute yoga. It will enrich it.

Namaste, and thank you.[/quote]

So true! Yoga studios have opened the door for many who would otherwise never experience it. Whatever small profit yoga studios have made from me over the years, it pales in comparison to the physical, spiritual, and mental benefits I’ve received in return, not to mention how teachers enable us to have their own personal practice. So, I see no problem paying a nominal fee so this person can live happily and pass along these gifts.

At the same time, I’m often puzzled by the cult of personality some yogis seem to be cultivating in addition to some of the dogmatism we see in some teachers who hold their own style so dear that it crosses the line of chauvinism.

#60

So I got the end of this interesting thread,

I chose to be a performer to have time on my hands to do whatever I feel like, I like to have time for my practices, yoga, tai chi and juggling. Yoga comes before everything though.
I could self create my self loads of different jobs but I’m just not interested… worrying about money though is horrible… I find when I really let my self go with what I really feel like doing money arrives! It’s really like activating a magnet…

I like what Gregg Braden says about being careful with what we “ASK FOR” …
If I ask “I WANT TO BE RICH (OR HAVE ENOUGH MONEY ETC…)” then the universe will do just that… it will let us want and want and want… funny eh?

So probably we should be very careful on a conscious and subconscious level what we are asking for.

I also really enjoy Louise Hay’s 101 power thoughts - there she talks briefly about money and how we keep ourselves from it…

This is an affirmation from a collection of Wealth affirmation cards by Louise Hay…

I am a magnet for money. Prosperity of every kind is drawn to me. I think big and then I allow myself to accept even more good from life.

Now this does sound very “new agey” but more than just words in the head they are powerful thoughts that change the very structure of our relationship with the world that surrounds us and that is inside us…

anyway just thought I’d share that for you…
if I get to hard up I can always teach english here in Rome or do childrens parties! For now they seem a bit like to easy a solution, but who knows probably shouldn’t fixate myself
love and light :slight_smile: