Your religion and abortion

Spirituality Religion
#41

It’s no more separate than a parasite or a tumor. It’s entirely dependent upon the host for life. Everything it does from conception on is entirely dependent upon the host/mother.

Someone in a vegetative state is no less human than you are, but their quality of life and awareness may differ and so we can judge if that quality should be maintained or terminated.

If they were no less “human” than I am, there would be no one who could dictate over whether they live or die. The very fact that their “humanity” is in question is why you are wrong.

So too with the lowly zygote - human, alive, with or without a CNS, but developmentally incapable of controlling it’s existence or continuence. That’s left up to the will of the host.

Women miscarry all the time, every day, through no “will” of their own. It can be a woman’s most ardent wish to have a baby, but no, they have a “hostile environment” down there & there’s often nothing they can do about it.

If a zygote created through intercourse is just as “human” as you or I, what about a zygote created in a lab? A women goes in for some artificial insemination, a in vitro lab tech takes a batch of sperm and 20 eggs and fertilizes them but the doctor only calls for 10 and tells him to dispose of the rest. Is the lab tech now guilty of manslaughter?
A sperm has the potential to create life. Am I guilty of murder every time I masturbate or have a nocturnal emission? Is my girlfriend guilty of cannibalisms when she grants me oral pleasure?
Lets be reasonable, it takes an actual fetus to get close to “humanity”, a zygote is not even close.

#42

[QUOTE=Indra Deva;49007]It’s no more separate than a parasite or a tumor. It’s entirely dependent upon the host for life. Everything it does from conception on is entirely dependent upon the host/mother.

If they were no less “human” than I am, there would be no one who could dictate over whether they live or die. The very fact that their “humanity” is in question is why you are wrong.

Women miscarry all the time, every day, through no “will” of their own. It can be a woman’s most ardent wish to have a baby, but no, they have a “hostile environment” down there & there’s often nothing they can do about it.

If a zygote created through intercourse is just as “human” as you or I, what about a zygote created in a lab? A women goes in for some artificial insemination, a in vitro lab tech takes a batch of sperm and 20 eggs and fertilizes them but the doctor only calls for 10 and tells him to dispose of the rest. Is the lab tech now guilty of manslaughter?
A sperm has the potential to create life. Am I guilty of murder every time I masturbate or have a nocturnal emission? Is my girlfriend guilty of cannibalisms when she grants me oral pleasure?
Lets be reasonable, it takes an actual fetus to get close to “humanity”, a zygote is not even close.[/QUOTE]

Now that was the most intelligent post you have ever made. Congratulations! I never thought such a racist like you could conjure up the coherence and clarity of thought to convey such things! This is unprecedented in the history of white supremacy! I wonder how your Klan will deal with such rationalism…

And this is the best part; your views are EXACTLY in line with mine! See what happens when you FINALLY use that stagnant mind of yours?

You have a girlfriend? Oh yes I forgot. I am surprised you haven’t engaged in promiscuity yet, considering the way you talk about those “hot Indian women” you [B]loved[/B] to “screw.”

#43

If a zygote created through intercourse is just as “human” as you or I, what about a zygote created in a lab? A women goes in for some artificial insemination, a in vitro lab tech takes a batch of sperm and 20 eggs and fertilizes them but the doctor only calls for 10 and tells him to dispose of the rest. Is the lab tech now guilty of manslaughter?

Yes, the lab is killing innocent humans. It is monstrous to create human life this way in the first place.

So how does this prove that abortion does not kill a human person?

A sperm has the potential to create life. Am I guilty of murder every time I masturbate or have a nocturnal emission?

A sperm cell is only half of the equation, and a sperm cell that never meets an ovum is not a human person, and it is ridiculous to compare a sperm cell to a zygote, embryo, or fetus.

Not my business, of course, but if you have a girlfriend with whom you have sexual relations, why do you need to masturbate too?

Nevermind…I don’t really need to know.

#44

[QUOTE=Indra Deva;49007]It’s no more separate than a parasite or a tumor. It’s entirely dependent upon the host for life. Everything it does from conception on is entirely dependent upon the host/mother.

If they were no less “human” than I am, there would be no one who could dictate over whether they live or die. The very fact that their “humanity” is in question is why you are wrong.[/QUOTE]

It is certainly like the parasite, but nothing like the tumour. The parasite is life, the tumour is not. My son’s 8 year old friend can decide to end the life of an ant, and in that moment the ant is entirely dependent on that boy for it’s life. Being unable to dictate one’s existence is not a facility of being human or any other life form. It is a facility of being sensient. Humanity is determined by DNA.

The debate of who holds the key to deciding is the matter. I happen to think it is the ultimately the woman’s choice.

#45

[QUOTE=thomas;49011]Yes, the lab is killing innocent humans. It is monstrous to create human life this way in the first place.

So how does this prove that abortion does not kill a human person?

A sperm cell is only half of the equation, and a sperm cell that never meets an ovum is not a human person, and it is ridiculous to compare a sperm cell to a zygote, embryo, or fetus.

Not my business, of course, but if you have a girlfriend with whom you have sexual relations, why do you need to masturbate too?

Nevermind…I don’t really need to know.[/QUOTE]

Remember when he told the entirety of these forums he screwed a lot of Indian women and enjoyed it? It is obvious that this guy is the type who reads the Pali Cannon and quotes it all day long and yet has nothing to show for it, just like the majority of the people on these forums. I won’t be surprised if he admits to reading the Gita while watching pornography on his laptop (while his girlfriend is dutifully cooking in the kitchen for him).

On the larger debate at hand, I too believe that the mother has the choice in certain circumstances. If a woman undergoes sexual intercourse without her consent, she has a choice. If the birth threatens her life and, consequently, the well being of those who depend on her, she has the choice. If the woman undergoes great emotional trauma during her pregnancy, she has the choice. Other than that, it is not acceptable.

By the way, I have a question to the other members of this forum. Isn’t adoption a choice? Can’t expecting mothers give away their babies to an adoption center if she is really that unwilling to have the baby? Or is it too expensive and cumbersome? I wouldn’t know these things since I am just a kid. :frowning:

#46

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;49009]Now that was the most intelligent post you have ever made. Congratulations! I never thought such a racist like you could conjure up the coherence and clarity of thought to convey such things! This is unprecedented in the history of white supremacy! I wonder how your Klan will deal with such rationalism…

And this is the best part; your views are EXACTLY in line with mine! See what happens when you FINALLY use that stagnant mind of yours?

You have a girlfriend? Oh yes I forgot. I am surprised you haven’t engaged in promiscuity yet, considering the way you talk about those “hot Indian women” you [B]loved[/B] to “screw.”[/QUOTE]

This is what I think of your idea of “White Supremacy”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gfnke34LQw

IT’S A JOKE. Now go away again.

#47

[QUOTE=thomas;49011]

Not my business, of course, but if you have a girlfriend with whom you have sexual relations, why do you need to masturbate too?

[/QUOTE]

Because every person has a different sexual drive. If one is sick, not in the mood, or has a headache , then that doesn’t mean that the second’s desire for intercourse goes away. And there is always the I’m bored and feel like it argument. Masturbation does not take away from a couple’s sex life.

#48

[QUOTE=David;48828]Why yes, I’m going there. :smiley:

Does anyone here practice a religion that supports abortion? Or is anyone here a yoga practitioner that supports abortion? If so, how do you reconcile abortion and the practice of ahimsa?[/QUOTE]

If the yogi cannot or will not support laws opposing it, will he or she at least refuse to encourage or participate in abortion? Will he or she be outspoken and live up to their ideals about “ahimsa”? Will he or she carry a sign opposing a war, but turn a blind eye to the abortion violence that happens every day, and that far outnumbers all the deaths caused by war and murder and even natural causes combined?

#49

[QUOTE=Indra Deva;49014]This is what I think of your idea of “White Supremacy”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gfnke34LQw

IT’S A JOKE. Now go away again.[/QUOTE]

This is what I think of white supremacy. You are right. It is a pathetic joke. Like you.

#50

"monstrous"??? :rolleyes:

So how does this prove that abortion does not kill a human person?

This is not a "human person"

neither is this

& neither is this

A sperm cell is only half of the equation, and a sperm cell that never meets an ovum is not a human person, and it is ridiculous to compare a sperm cell to a zygote, embryo, or fetus.

An ovum is a cell, a sperm is a cell, and a zygote is a cell or a bundle of like cells. If it ran down some woman's leg onto the sidewalk & you stepped on it you would never know it. IT'S NOT A PERSON.

Not my business, of course, but if you have a girlfriend with whom you have sexual relations, why do you need to masturbate too?

Nevermind...I don't really need to know.

Yeah, you don't. But I'll volunteer a little information since you asked. Why would I masturbate? Because pleasure feels good (a little tautology for ya), and I'm not some religious wackjob who believes that 99% of the sex acts that humanity has thought up are actually "sinful"....

#51

Thanks for answering, but I don’t get why you would want to make love to yourself when you have the real thing available, and why you would need to do both.

Whatever…though I am a “whackjob” who thinks masturbation is a disordered act and a sin, I don’t think it should be illegal or forbidden. At least I suppose when you practice solitary sex, you don’t have to worry about a partner not being in the mood, though it does seem to me like scraping the bottom of the barrel.

But since a zygote and and embryo are two itsy bitsy weird looking things, and therefore not real people, can you at least agree we should not be slicing and dicing the more mature embryos and fetuses that have a very strong resemblance to babies?

#52

“making love” to myself!?! :lol::lol::lol:

Whatever…though I am a “whackjob” who thinks masturbation is a disordered act and a sin, I don’t think it should be illegal or forbidden. At least I suppose when you practice solitary sex, you don’t have to worry about a partner not being in the mood, though it does seem to me like scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Wow. You finally, after all these years, came to that conclusion all by your lonesome?

But since a zygote and and embryo are two itsy bitsy weird looking things, and therefore not real people, can you at least agree we should not be slicing and dicing the more mature embryos and fetuses that have a very strong resemblance to babies?

how about let us agree that third trimester abortion is wrong & that second trimester abortion is a very bad thing. You & your religion seem to have feelings about things that “look” like babies & I don’t really want to discuss that.

#53

Does abortion go against ahimsa?

Can a yogi have an abortion, perform an abortion, or encourage or help another to have an abortion?

#54

Can a Catholic be forgiven if they had one?

#55

[QUOTE=kareng;49130]Can a Catholic be forgiven if they had one?[/QUOTE]

Yes, of course.

There is nothing that can’t be forgiven.

(One of the most famous pro-life advocates was the late Bernard Nathisen, who performed thousands of abortions, even one involving his own child, until he saw the light. He eventually converted to Christianity and then to Catholicism).

And the culpability is much less if she had her abortion in ignorance or under duress.

I see abortion not only as the sin of an individual, but of our entire culture, which pushes women in that direction, and I think we all share in the guilt of it, and it’s unfair to point the finger at the woman only, as she is somewhat of a victim.

#56

[QUOTE=thomas;49134]Yes, of course.

There is nothing that can’t be forgiven.

(One of the most famous pro-life advocates was the late Bernard Nathisen, who performed thousands of abortions, even one involving his own child, until he saw the light. He eventually converted to Christianity and then to Catholicism).

And the culpability is much less if she had her abortion in ignorance or under duress.

I see abortion not only as the sin of an individual, but of our entire culture, which pushes women in that direction, and I think we all share in the guilt of it, and it’s unfair to point the finger at the woman only, as she is somewhat of a victim.[/QUOTE]

How do feel about cloning?

#57

[QUOTE=kareng;49135]How do feel about cloning?[/QUOTE]

I think it’s atrocious.

#58

yes I agree Thomas…very worrying indeed x

#59

So artificially creating life is wrong and artificially killing it is?

#60

perhaps artificially is the wrong word for killing part