A Lesson in Reducing Ego

Spirituality
#41

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;58950]Surya,

“Poverty does not cultivate humilty it cultivates desire for materials. The last thing on the mind of a hungry and homeless man is spirituality/self-realization, it is food, water and survival.”

That is true.[/QUOTE]

?I concur?, drop someone off in the dessert without food or water, come back two days day later, if they?re still alive their desire for water will over shadow everything, until you wrap your hands and around their throat and squeeze, then their interest quickly shifts to the next breath of air?

#42

“Poverty does not cultivate humilty it cultivates desire for materials. The last thing on the mind of a hungry and homeless man is spirituality/self-realization, it is food, water and survival.”

There’s no question that this is true. Every man and woman has basic survival needs. What separates one from another is how they handle the situation. Some turn to violence or crime, robbery, prostitution, selling drugs. Others give up and turn to alcohol or become beggars on the streets or live from government handouts. Not so Kalaivani. She is the epitome of sattva.

#43

Asuri,

“Not so Kalaivani. She is the epitome of sattva.”

I would question this. One does not need to turn to violence, robbery, prostitution, or selling drugs in order to suffer from the lust for power. The lust for power is so deeply rooted in the unconscious, that unless one makes a tremendous effort to dissolve it- knowingly or unknowingly it is going to be there. Kalaivani, regardless of how impressive one thinks the situation to be, is just as much interested in self-preservation as anybody else. I want to make this clear, that as long as the mind is identified with the ego, and continues thinking of itself as a separate entity - one is not going to be interested in anything else except preservation of the self. Outwardly - one may appear humble, but appearances are deceiving. And man is all too often deceived by appearances without caring to investigate into what lies underneath the surface.

#44

If you really understood the buddha, you would recognize him in others. What does the lust for power have to do with this thread? You’re way off base here, and you don’t even know it. In contrast to Kalaivani, your actions here demonstrate the self-seeking, rajasic nature, with a bit of the delusional tamas thrown in as well.

#45

Asuri,

“If you really understood the buddha, you would recognize him in others.”

When I say Buddha, I am not referring to Gautama Siddhartha. The word Buddha simply means the “Awakened One”, just as the word Christ means the “Annointed One”. Buddha is a word that can refer to anybody who has become awakened. As all things in existence are of one and the same original nature - then there is nothing in existence which is not intrinsically of the same Buddha-Nature. The only difference is whether one is aware of it or unaware of it. In being aware of it - nothing is added or subtracted from one’s nature. In being unaware of it - nothing is added or subtracted from one’s nature.

“What does the lust for power have to do with this thread?”

It has much. Because one may be deceived by appearances, one may think that the actions of Kalaivani, which outwardly appear humble, are devoid of ego. It is my own understanding that she is just as egoistic as the average person.

“your actions here demonstrate the self-seeking, rajasic nature, with a bit of the delusional tamas thrown in as well.”

The person who has posted this thread has opened a discussion, and I am simply discussing. If one is going to speak about a certain subject, one should be prepared for as many different perspectives of the matter as possible. If one is seeking to speak about something in which everybody can be in agreement - then such a subject is not of much usefulness as far as heightening one’s understanding is concerned.

#46

pray, please explain what is ‘one’s nature’, as you mention.

#47

prasad,

Is the question as a burning hunger in your belly to know, or are you just asking the question mechanically ?

#48

no, i wanna understand the young mind of yours and your understanding. At times you are brilliant and mostly you contradict yourself along different post.

#49

“no, i wanna understand the young mind of yours”

Understanding and wisdom is not a matter of age. Ramana Maharishi became awakened at a very young age. After Gautama left his kingdom, already a young man, it took him twelve years to discover the Way. And there are people who are preparing to enter into the grave who have remained just as unconscious and asleep as they have always been. If it is a question of age, then simply by growing old you can become a sage. It is not really the case. Revealing one’s own wisdom is something that happens out of a deep and intense inquiry into one’s own being, and it is simply because man has not channeled his attention in the right direction that he has managed to manufacture a mess out of his mind. But your statement was said without any sincere desire to investigate, but as an excuse to vent out your threatened ego.

“At times you are brilliant and mostly you contradict yourself along different post”

Contradictions are never a problem if they arise out of your own direct vision into things as they are. In fact, those statements which come a bit closer to Truth are always going to appear as contradictions to the intellect. Because the intellect is always one-sided, it wants to reduce everything into fixed and firm boundaries.

Everything in the universe can be seen from almost infinite number of angles and perspectives, some of which appear contradictory but they are just expressing the same reality from a different understanding. You cannot contain all dimensions together through language, so when speaking of Truth, one often has to choose one.

#50

My God! Why did I under estimate such a Genius. Just because of my Arrogance that I am an NRI. Or Just because I presumed such a[U] Black, dark complexioned, gullible girl[/U], who would have come for this job out of [U]absolute poverty[/U], wouldn’t have any idea of “Thatva Bodha”.

So Indians are classist, colorist, racist and sexist too, eh?

Hearing from Nietzche and TatTvamAsi we’d expect an attitude to come only from what they call a “westerner” or “mleccha”.

#51

ask and you shall receive. You never know about anyone unless you ask. There are allot of useless morons from rich families and great wonderful smart people from the slums

you never know until you ask

#52

Amir is such a naysayer … I like naysayers. The problem is not that he’s not right, but rather, he says it from his head. When he will say it from his heart, everyone will notice it, and noone will be offended.

Before the voice can speak in the presence of the masters, it must have lost it’s power to wound.

#53

Before the voice can speak in the presence of the masters, it must have lost it’s power to wound.

Wonderful. I sincerely bow to that. (Not as a comment on someone, but on its own import)

regards, anand

#54

Hubert,

“The problem is not that he’s not right, but rather, he says it from his head. When he will say it from his heart”

The heart is capable of as many deceptions as the mind, they are not separate. This is a very popular idea, to follow your heart. And the greatest tragedies have happened because people have thought they were following their heart. People like these Jihadis who have been trying to initiate wars to enforce their belief system - authentically believe that they are following their heart, they believe it so blindly that it even has a certain purity to it. It takes tremendous faith to believe in anything without raising any question marks, but anything without clarity is dangerous.

The heart is just your emotional nature, and anything, whether it is thought, emotion, or intuition, needs to be illuminated by something beyond it. To come to clarity of vision, what is needed is to come to know of a space which is beyond the mind and beyond the heart. Only then, can the mind and the heart become instruments in the hands of a master. That is when it is possible to “be in the world but not of the world”, in the mind but not of the mind, and in the heart but not of the heart.

“noone will be offended.”

Some of what I say may be found to be offensive. But I am not speaking for the sake of nourishing ones ego. Anything which one feels threatens ones identifications and attachments is going to appear offensive. I would say that if you are not disturbed along the spiritual path - then there is a problem. One is residing too much in ones comfort zone, and most human beings are far more interested in comfort and security. To become disturbed is very simple - one just needs to take a step outside of this comfort zone which is part of our programming. But if you do - you will become disturbed. If you do not - then there is no room for expansion.

#55

Some of what I say may be found to be offensive. But I am not speaking for the sake of nourishing ones ego. Anything which one feels threatens ones identifications and attachments is going to appear offensive. I would say that if you are not disturbed along the spiritual path - then there is a problem. One is residing too much in ones comfort zone, and most human beings are far more interested in comfort and security. To become disturbed is very simple - one just needs to take a step outside of this comfort zone which is part of our programming. But if you do - you will become disturbed. If you do not - then there is no room for expansion.

Dear Friend:

Comfort zone is inversely proportional to one’s ego. So a large comfort zone would surely be indicative of a reduced ego (don’t read as cowardice) which would be good preparation for pursuit of higher spiritual goals.

regards, anand

#56

well said anand,

#57

Anand,

“So a large comfort zone would surely be indicative of a reduced ego (don’t read as cowardice) which would be good preparation for pursuit of higher spiritual goals.”

It is not really the case. If you are just an egoist who is interested in preserving your identity, then yes, clinging to your comfort zone may be useful. Otherwise, it is because of man’s deep programming that he has prevented himself from coming to his enlightenment. To cling to your comfort zone just means this - to remain a slave to your programming. And a human being is generally, unless one has tremendous awareness, far more interested in survival and preservation of his ego rather than coming to terms with the Truth. Anything which threatens the survival of your ego is bound to create fear.

If you are comfortable, that does not mean that you are a slave to your comfort zone. The difference between the two is tremendous. One arises out of freedom, the other arises out of bondage.

"Comfort zone is inversely proportional to one’s ego. "

Entangled in a dream, one continues speaking of a dream,
When a snake pretends to be a dragon,
Not even infinite shedding of skin can reveal ones own true face
Witnessing the great parody
Even unborn serpents are embarrassed
Seeing and yet remaining absolutely blind,
Hearing yet remaining absolutely deaf
From the bones to the marrow,
Not a glimpse of the real fellow is to be found

Entering into the unknown,
The true disciple walks in the center between life and death,
If he seeks to find his own head,
In the same breath he loses the Way,
If he does not seek to find his own head,
Then it remains like a hidden jewel in the abyss,
If you really seek to see into the heart of the matter -
Drop all of your discrimination for and against,
And with one-pointedness of mind,
Sever your own head and discover your Buddha-Nature.

#58

Dear Friend:

It is not really the case. If you are just an egoist who is interested in preserving your identity, then yes, clinging to your comfort zone may be useful.

What clinging, I could not get the point you are making. Kindly pardon my ignorance.

Otherwise, it is because of man’s deep programming that he has prevented himself from coming to his enlightenment.
I think I got your point here. You are talking of [I][B]samskaras[/B][/I], I suppose.

To cling to your comfort zone just means this - to remain a slave to your programming. And a human being is generally, unless one has tremendous awareness, far more interested in survival and preservation of his ego rather than coming to terms with the Truth. Anything which threatens the survival of your ego is bound to create fear.

Could not understand. Please pardon. Also the poem. I’m sure it must have come from you in a moment of inner awareness. However, I’m unable to either fathom it or be one with it.

Really sorry about that. You have taken great pains to respond, but… I’m helpless. Maybe other readers will appreciate and benefit.

regards, anand

#59

[QUOTE=prasad;63378]well said anand,[/QUOTE]

Dear Friend:

Your appreciation made me re-visit my response as well as our mutual friend’s post after your above one.

I do not take any exchanges as any kind of challenge, rather an opportunity to share the tit-bits that I have, for all they are worth.

Hence, after re-looking at our friend’s posts here, I think he is trying to bring us to a “point of shunya” and I really appreciate the sincerity of his intentions.

My Guru P.P. Shri Narayan Dhekane Maharaj says “Yoga begins where words end” being a state of “shunya” if I may say so, as far as the workings of that component of mind which is dominated by ego, is concerned.

However, our friend wants everyone to at once jump and be in that state. What I am saying is that the great people have told us ways and we need to take these ways to attain that state.

It reminds me of a story wherein a princess was imprisoned in a tall tower because the king did not want her to marry a commoner boy. From the tower window, the princess asked her suitor standing at the bottom of the tower to get a beetle, a silk thread, some honey and a thick rope. Knowing the wisdom of the princess, the wise suitor did as he was told.

Next night, the suitor brought all the things. The princess then asked him to tie the silk thread to the beetle and the thick rope to the other end of the silk thread. Then she asked him to rub some honey on the nose of the beetle and set it on the tower wall, facing up towards the window.

By the aroma of the honey the beetle started moving up and up taking with it the silk thread. When it reached the window, the princess pulled up the silk thread and thus got hold of the thick rope at the other end. Tying the rope firmly inside the tower, she called up her suitor, who gently took her down and together they escaped.

This story is relevant to yoga aspirants. Or isn’t it?

regards, anand

#60

Beautiful story and thank you for sharing. The ego is one of the most challenging aspects of the human experience. It never ceases to amaze me what it is capable combined with fear.

Sara