Christianity And Reincarnation

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;35901]None of those verses you cited teach reincarnation. They teach about being born again by being baptized. It’s a renewing of oneself.

There is a concept very similar in Hinduism known as the “twice born” Where everbody is born a shudra(worker), but then later can be born again and become a merchant, warrior or sage. There is also a sacred thread ceremony and a ritual similar to baptism.

There is no proof of reincarnation in the bible. It is not taught anywhere. On the contrary is it taught you only live once. If you want to learn about reincarnation you need to read Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism or Sikhism, which describe it in great detail.[/QUOTE]

And I quote from Autobiography of a Yogi

Chapter 35 The Christlike life of Lahiri Mahasaya LOL

“From a reverent study of the bible from an Oriental viewpoint and from INTUITIONAL perception . . . . I am convinced that John the Baptist was, in past lives, the guru of Christ. NUMEROUS passages in the Bible imply that John and Jesus in their last incarnations were, respectivly, Elijah and his disciple Elisha. The very end of the old testament is a prediction of the reincarnation of Elijah and Elisha: “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the comming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.” Thus John (elijah), sent “before the coming . . . of the Lord,” was born slightly earlier to serve as a herald for Christ.”

BOOM.

Mukunda goes on further into it within the chapter but I’m done writing.

All same.

There aren’t enough words to describe how much I love whooping thee. Look! Now i’m all charged up with smiles!

wut?

“From a reverent study of the bible from an Oriental viewpoint and from INTUITIONAL perception . . . . I am convinced that John the Baptist was, in past lives, the guru of Christ. NUMEROUS passages in the Bible imply that John and Jesus in their last incarnations were, respectivly, Elijah and his disciple Elisha. The very end of the old testament is a prediction of the reincarnation of Elijah and Elisha: “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the comming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.” Thus John (elijah), sent “before the coming . . . of the Lord,” was born slightly earlier to serve as a herald for Christ.”

An extreme example of the distortions that can happen when words are taken out of context.

[QUOTE=The Scales;47816]And I quote from Autobiography of a Yogi

Chapter 35 The Christlike life of Lahiri Mahasaya LOL

“From a reverent study of the bible from an Oriental viewpoint and from INTUITIONAL perception . . . . I am convinced that John the Baptist was, in past lives, the guru of Christ. NUMEROUS passages in the Bible imply that John and Jesus in their last incarnations were, respectivly, Elijah and his disciple Elisha. The very end of the old testament is a prediction of the reincarnation of Elijah and Elisha: “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the comming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.” Thus John (elijah), sent “before the coming . . . of the Lord,” was born slightly earlier to serve as a herald for Christ.”

BOOM.

Mukunda goes on further into it within the chapter but I’m done writing.

All same.

There aren’t enough words to describe how much I love whooping thee. Look! Now i’m all charged up with smiles!

wut?[/QUOTE]

Wut indeed

[QUOTE=thomas;47820]An extreme example of the distortions that can happen when words are taken out of context.[/QUOTE]

I’m gonna have to side with Mukunda on this.

maybe your perception is a distortion?

maybe the WHOLE Mass of perception of Chrisentom is a Distortion?

There are two types of people in this world.

Those who posess yogic insight.

Those who do not.

Somewhere above 90% of the people on this planet do not possess yogic insight.

Yogic insight I like this…yes it appears in all faiths.

There are two types of people in this world.

Those who posess yogic insight.

Those who do not.

Somewhere above 90% of the people on this planet do not possess yogic insight.

Then I would have little faith in yogic insight if it could lead someone to such an ignorant distortion of another faith. Or possibly “yogic insight” is just fancy name for “bs artistry” and an undue appreciation of the odor of one’s own production of bs.

I wouldn’t call it an ignorant distortion. It’s just how it appears to Hindus from their perspective. I find it interesting that when scriptures are viewed from different perspectives, they tend to take on whole new meanings.

[QUOTE=thomas;47906]Then I would have little faith in yogic insight if it could lead someone to such an ignorant distortion of another faith. Or possibly “yogic insight” is just fancy name for “bs artistry” and an undue appreciation of the odor of one’s own production of bs.[/QUOTE]

I think guys like Thomas Merton would disagree with that assessment.

Don’t start interpreting any sacred text through another viewpoint. It is illogical and plain foolish to do so. Quoting is one thing. Interpreting them through another viewpoint is another. It is tantamount to interpreting Hindu texts through Christian lenses, and we all know what happened as a result of that; the birth of the Aryan Invasion Theory.

It is best to let Thomas be the judge of what interpretation murky Bible passages like that need.

Hmm…

So you’re a big fan of cultural relativism then???

It is best to let Thomas be the judge of what interpretation murky Bible passages like that need.

Actually, I think we’ll examine ANY text (even “sacred” ones) through any literary theory lens we like. You can whine about it all you want… :smiley:

[QUOTE=Indra Deva;47929]Actually, I think we’ll examine ANY text (even “sacred” ones) through any literary theory lens we like. You can whine about it all you want… :D[/QUOTE]

You can see reincarnation in the Holy Bible if that’s what you want to see. You can probably see pink elephants in there too.

But it’s foolish for someone outside of the faith who has only a superficial knowledge of it, to tell those of the faith what it is they believe and what it teaches, expecially a doctrine that is diametrically in opposition.

But I don’t deny a yogi has a right to preach his misconceptions about Christianity, as irritating as they may be. And I have the right to see such a yogi as a dunce, and to be totally unimpressed by his alleged mad yogi skills.

Somewhere above 90% of the people on this planet do not possess yogic insight.

And you are amongst the 10% who have yogic insight right? :lol:

The bible does not mention reincarnation.

It is the burden of proof of the claimant that it mentions reincarnation to prove it. If they do not have proof, then they should better just remain silent.

[QUOTE=thomas;47930]You can see reincarnation in the Holy Bible if that’s what you want to see. You can probably see pink elephants in there too.

But it’s foolish for someone outside of the faith who has only a superficial knowledge of it, to tell those of the faith what it is they believe and what it teaches, expecially a doctrine that is diametrically in opposition.

But I don’t deny a yogi has a right to preach his misconceptions about Christianity, as irritating as they may be. And I have the right to see such a yogi as a dunce, and to be totally unimpressed by his alleged mad yogi skills.[/QUOTE]

Lol, you do that ID. In the meantime, I will watch the news for more reports of Muslim violence against Christians and Westerners.

Heeeeey, what do you know? Taliban torches 16 NATO tankers in Pakistan. And not too long after I made the above post Indra Deva.

American ignorance keeps digging the hole that gets the U.S into such mess.

I pity them. NOT!

I heard that 100 Hindus were trampled to death by a stampede of their fellow Hindus the other day. Wonder what that was about? :smiley:

US Soldiers were killed trying to train Iraqis. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110115/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq

So sad. Then again, the U.S, with their stupid and racist populace, got themselves into it. Besides, there is nothing to be gained from trying to teach the Muslims about warfare. They will just turn around and kill more Christians for trashing their nation. Kind of like what happened in this incident.

Then again, maybe the U.S will waste more money on problems they shouldn’t worry about, speeding their decline…happy thoughts

I love how right these events are occurring right after I said I would watch for them. It is a sign. It is what happens when the population of a country is filled with ignorant bigots who think they’re the best and can screw up the world and get away with it. Karma.

[QUOTE=Indra Deva;47964]I heard that 100 Hindus were trampled to death by a stampede of their fellow Hindus the other day. Wonder what that was about? :D[/QUOTE]

They probably read the Old Testament the night before. Or maybe some Christians dressed up as Hindus did the trampling. Could be a Christian scheme to wipe out Hindus.

But somehow or other this is the fault of the evil Christian West with some help from their evil Islamic brothers.

Here’s one website I’ve found. Just as a point of interest & not that I believe any of this bible stuff…

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen03.html

The episode in the Bible where Jesus identified John the Baptist as the reincarnation of Elijah the prophet is one of the clearest statements which Jesus made concerning reincarnation.

[I][B]For all the prophets and the law have prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was to come. (Matt. 11:13-14)[/B][/I]

In the above passage, Jesus clearly identifies John the Baptist as the reincarnation of Elijah the prophet. Later in Matthew’s gospel Jesus reiterates it.

[I][B]And the disciples asked him, saying, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?”[/B][/I]

[I][B]But he answered them and said, "Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand.“
Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist.” (Matt. 17:10-13)[/B][/I]

In very explicit language, Jesus identified John the Baptist as the reincarnation of Elijah. Even the disciples of Jesus understood what Jesus was saying. This identification of John to be the reincarnation of Elijah is very important when it comes to Bible prophecy. By identifying the John with Elijah, Jesus identified himself as the Messiah…

After the beheading of John, Jesus took a few of his disciples to the top of a mountain and transfigured into a Being of Light. On the mountain with them as Elijah and Moses.

[I][B]After six days Jesus took Peter, James and John with him and led them up a high mountain, where they were all alone. There he was transfigured before them. His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them. And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking with Jesus …

As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus gave them orders not to tell anyone what they had seen until the Son of Man had risen from the dead.
They kept the matter to themselves, discussing what “rising from the dead” meant.
And they asked him, "Why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?"
Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things.”
“Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected?”

“But I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him.” (Mark 9:9-13)[/B][/I]

The passage above describes the disciples seeing the spirit of Elijah and wondering again about Elijah’s role. Jesus again identifies John to be the reincarnation of Elijah…

Skeptics of reincarnation like to quote the following Bible verse in an effort to refute Jesus’ clear teaching of the reincarnation of Elijah as John the Baptist.

[I][B]And he [John the Baptist] will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah. (Luke 1:17)[/B][/I]

Skeptics claim that the above Bible verse affirms John to be merely a prophet who performed the same ministry as Elijah - not that John was actually the reincarnation of Elijah. But this is not what the verse actually says. In fact, the verse gives a perfect definition of reincarnation: the return of a person’s spirit and power into another body. It is the spirit and power that reincarnates. Therefore this verse clearly states that John the Baptist had the spirit and power of Elijah. And this is exactly what reincarnation means. It does not get much clearer than this…

Reincarnation involves only the higher consciousness of the spirit. Because John did not have the conscious mind and past-life memories of Elijah, John denied being Elijah. With very few exceptions, nobody has a conscious memory of past lives. The following is the Bible passage that shows John denying that he is Elijah.

[I][B]They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?"
He said, “I am not.”
"Are you the Prophet?"
He answered, “No.”[/B][/I]

[I][B]Finally they said, “Who are you? Give us an answer to take back to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?”[/B][/I]

[I][B]"John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, “I am the voice of one calling in the desert, “Make straight the way for the Lord.””[/B][/I]

[I][B]Now some Pharisees who had been sent questioned him, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”[/B][/I]

[I][B]“I baptize with water,” John replied, “but among you stands one you do not know. He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.” (John 1:21-27)[/B][/I]

Notice that the Pharisees questioning John were expecting the reincarnation of an Old Testament prophet. And John did not refute the concept of reincarnation when he stated his ignorance about having a past life as Elijah. But Jesus was not ignorant about John. Jesus knew better and said so in the plainest words possible:

[I][B]This is the one … there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist … And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. He who has ears, let him hear. (Matt. 11:11-15)[/B][/I]

Jesus revealed John to be Elijah; but John denied it. Which of the two people are right - Jesus or John?

(…)

Another interesting parallel between John and Elijah has to do with karma. The Bible describes how Elijah had the priests of Baal killed with the sword because their sacrifice failed to catch fire whereas his did. Here are the two Bible verses that describe it:

[I][B]“Then Elijah commanded them, “Seize the prophets of Baal. Don’t let anyone get away!” They seized them, and Elijah had them brought down to the Kishon Valley and slaughtered there.” (1 Kings 18:40)[/B][/I]

[I][B]“Now Ahab told Jezebel everything Elijah had done and how he had killed all the prophets with the sword.” (1 Kings 19:1)[/B][/I]

Having all the priests of Baal beheaded seems like an incredible injustice on Elijah’s part. This may explain why Elijah had to pay the karmic debt for this injustice by reincarnating as John the Baptist and having his own head cut off:

[I][B]“Prompted by her mother, she said, “Give me here on a platter the head of John the Baptist.” The king was distressed, but because of his oaths and his dinner guests, he ordered that her request be granted and had John beheaded in the prison.” (Matt. 14:6-10)[/B][/I]

Because Elijah had people beheaded, the law of “eye for an eye” and “reaping what we sow” demanded that Elijah be beheaded. This is a good example of how those who live by the sword will die by the sword - if not in the same lifetime then in another…

The great Church Father Origen used this very parable to teach pre-existence and reincarnation.

[I][B]The soul has neither beginning nor end… [They] come into this world strengthened by the victories or weakened by the defeats of their previous lives. (Origen, De Principiis)[/B][/I]

When Origen used the parable of the talents to refer to reincarnation and pre-existence he was not introducing some foreign religious concept into the Christian religion. He was merely expressing what is described throughout the Bible and believed by early Christians to be one of the secret teachings of Jesus.

Some early Christian sects not only believed that Jesus paid the debt of divine justice for Adam’s original sin, they also believed that Adam was one of many reincarnations of Jesus. These early Christian sects were called the Ebionites, the Elkasaites and the Nazarites. Even the concept of Jesus paying the debt from Adam’s sin makes more sense if reincarnation is assumed to be true…