We are denying the airport part of it. I have
Then you are accusing me and my family, 81% NRI’s who were surveyed in one the links I gave and the experiences of others I linked who have experienced horrible corruption at Indian airports of lying.
The irony is you admit there is corruption in India, but deny there is corruption at airports? N you are becoming a joker 
India continues to be one of the most corrupt nations in the world with many of its public institutions given to rampant misdeeds. Corruption is India’s bane and threatens to derail its rapidly growing economy.
The country ranks a dismal 84th in a list of 180 countries, according to Transparency International’s 2009 Corruption Perceptions Index, a measure of domestic and public sector corruption.
The corruption watchdog says that many African, East European and Latin American nations fare much better than India
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;51919]I am no longer going to debate with you on Indian education and living standards. Like I said before for anybody to debate about greatness in education and wealth of a country where 800 million or 70% live in extreme poverty, 374 million or 32% are illiterate and a country which ranks below the most poorest African countries in terms of literacy ranking 149 out of 180 countries is an out and out fool.
You are looking like a fool N, seriously. Before you even dare to boast about India’s wealth and education first get to the average global standards. Then from there get to the Western standards. You are talking about a few more decades in development.
India is a developing country. If you dispute this fact you are an idiot. Nobody boasts of the wealth and education of a developing country.[/QUOTE]
It isn’t a debate on materialistic aspects, but rather the temperamental and spiritual qualities of India. I don’t deny most of the statistics you have quoted, but rather your interpretation of them as India having no hope for reform.
When did I debate the general wealth and education of India? I was debating the spiritual and temperamental aspects of India, not these superficial aspects.
The whole problem is that you are misinterpreting what I am saying. If this was actually a debate on India’s wealth and education, I would, hands-down, agree with you.
I have seen the worst of India’s “wealth” and education. I have seen people dying on the streets, begging for food and water. I remember the shitty education I received in India. One of our vocab “tests” was literally “spell ‘dog’ in Hindi. Turn in when you are done.” Many of our teachers weren’t even there for half the year. I remember having to learn so many different things at different times, without any rhyme or reason, that I ended up sleeping in class (and getting beatings 
).
No need for such language, Surya Deva, especially when the entirety of the forum populace considers you to be much the same and especially when you are misinterpreting my words as a statement of how India is materially better.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;51926]Then you are accusing me and my family, 81% NRI’s who were surveyed in one the links I gave and the experiences of others I linked who have experienced horrible corruption at Indian airports of lying.
The irony is you admit there is corruption in India, but deny there is corruption at airports? N you are becoming a joker :p[/quote]
Where in India do you visit? This might clear up any misunderstandings.
I did not intend this thread to become an anti-India thread. But unfortunately when Indian nationalistic members make repeated silly exaggerations, sling mud at other countries when worse problems exist in their own, and deny obvious truths about India, I cannot but help myself put the record straight 
Just stick to the facts and you won’t attract anti-India material.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;51928]India continues to be one of the most corrupt nations in the world with many of its public institutions given to rampant misdeeds. Corruption is India’s bane and threatens to derail its rapidly growing economy.
The country ranks a dismal 84th in a list of 180 countries, according to Transparency International’s 2009 Corruption Perceptions Index, a measure of domestic and public sector corruption.
The corruption watchdog says that many African, East European and Latin American nations fare much better than India
In fact, I remember my dad forwarding a message to me from one of his friends dealing with the corruption in India. Let me see if I can find it.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;51931]I did not intend this thread to become an anti-India thread. But unfortunately when Indian nationalistic members make repeated silly exaggerations, sling mud at other countries when worse problems exist in their own, and deny obvious truths about India, I cannot but help myself put the record straight
Just stick to the facts and you won’t attract anti-India material.[/QUOTE]
Yes, worse infrastructural problems exist in India.
Worse temperamental problems exist in the West.
There are things which are backwards about the West and India.
The problem arises when those are at the top of the world do nothing but denounce and scorn those below them, instead of helping them. With great power comes great responsibility, not chauvinism, racism, and arrogance. I consider this to be a greater evil, more so than anything else.
[QUOTE=Nietzsche;51930]Where in India do you visit? This might clear up any misunderstandings.[/QUOTE]
I have already told you some of the places I’ve been to. If you want a comprehensive list then: I have been to Mumbai, Delhi, Bangalore, Hyderabad, Kerela, Goa, Hardiwar, Rishikesh, Jaipur, Jaiselmer, Agra, Pune, Punjab.
There is not a single place in India where I did not face rampant corruption, poverty and illiteracy.
There is no misunderstanding here. You are simply not facing up to hard facts about Indian corruption. In the links above people experienced corruption at Mumbai international, Delhi international and Bangalore international.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;51934]I have already told you some of the places I’ve been to. If you want a comprehensive list then: I have been to Mumbai, Delhi, Bangalore, Hyderabad, Kerela, Goa, Hardiwar, Rishikesh, Jaipur, Jaiselmer, Agra, Pune, Punjab.
There is not a single place in India where I did not face rampant corruption, poverty and illiteracy.
There is no misunderstanding here. You are simply not facing up to hard facts about Indian corruption. In the links above people experienced corruption at Mumbai international, Delhi international and Bangalore international.[/QUOTE]
Ah thanks.
Once again, I am not denying any of this exists, especially when I have seen the worse things before the economic boom. I was just very puzzled about your airport experiences because I have never heard of this before. It was just a new thing for me, thats all.
Actually, these mudslinging contests (:D) make me want to visit India over the summer and see the situation there for myself. Maybe I can tag along with my dad on one of his business trips.
How was Hyderabad by the way? Did you see a place called “Aarti Hotel” in Himayatnagar? My family owns that.
There are things which are backwards about the West and India.
What is backwards about the West, but which is more advanced in India today?
The problem arises when those are at the top of the world do nothing but denounce and scorn those below them, instead of helping them. With great power comes great responsibility, not chauvinism, racism, and arrogance. I consider this to be a greater evil, more so than anything else.
The West are at the top because they are developed countries, more weathly, less corrupt, better infrastructure, better education, better living standards, better civil and human rights. India was at the top in the past prior to colonial rule for the same reasons.
I would prefer to live in a more developed part of the world than a less developed part of the world, who wouldn’t? I recall an Indian man once saying to me in India, “I am born in the wrong country, I should have been born in the West”
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;51937]What is backwards about the West, but which is more advanced in India today?
The West are at the top because they are developed countries, more weathly, less corrupt, better infrastructure, better education, better living standards, better civil and human rights. India was at the top in the past prior to colonial rule for the same reasons.
I would prefer to live in a more developed part of the world than a less developed part of the world, who wouldn’t? I recall an Indian man once saying to me in India, “I am born in the wrong country, I should have been born in the West”[/QUOTE]
Sigh* I would rather not dispute this once more. It is clear we have experienced different sides of the West.
So would I. Then again, what is the point of living in a developed country when there is nothing that keeps you at peace with yourself? When you face nothing but scorn, hatred, ignorance…
I know many people who have told me “India is a toilet/garbage heap/etc. But I have gotten more out of it than any other place.” One of these people would be myself.
Anyway, this thread careened way of course. I think we can agree that there is nothing wrong with Hindutva, besides the nationalistic aspects?
You face greater scorn, hatred and ignorance in India. Isn’t it a fact that every state in India has a succession movemements, is it not a fact that India is home to several terrorist groups? You should stop pretending that these issues are only particular to the West. India has far worse problems. Caste discrimination is still rampant in rural India, 70% of India.
The West in every aspect of society is better than India. There is not a single area of society India is better in today. In fact India today resembles the West several decades ago. It is only starting to experience what it is like to have a middle class and consumerist lifestyle. It is following the same failed growth pattern of the West. The problems that exist in the West are now coming to India: the airheadedness of the youth, diabetes and overweightness, dysfunctional families, climbing divorce rates and adultery, pornography.
India is just wannabe West today. Nobody respects a wannabe.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;51940]You face greater scorn, hatred and ignorance in India. Isn’t it a fact that every state in India has a succession movemements, is it not a fact that India is home to several terrorist groups? You should stop pretending that these issues are only particular to the West. India has far worse problems. Caste discrimination is still rampant in rural India, 70% of India.
The West in every aspect of society is better than India. There is not a single area of society India is better in today. In fact India today resembles the West several decades ago. It is only starting to experience what it is like to have a middle class and consumerist lifestyle. It is following the same failed growth pattern of the West. The problems that exist in the West are now coming to India: the airheadedness of the youth, diabetes and overweightness, dysfunctional families, climbing divorce rates and adultery, pornography.
India is just wannabe West today. Nobody respects a wannabe.[/quote]
And thus, the cycle continues.
If there is any hope for India that is for India to return to its Vedic roots. I repeat:
Replace the capitalist system with the varnashrama dharma system.
Replace the education system with the gurukula system
Replace the medical system with the Ayurveda system
Replace health care and personal management and gyms with Yoga
Replace architecture and engineering with Vaastu
Replace English with Sanskrit
Replace the MTV system with the Sargam system
Revive the study of the Vedas, darsanas, epics, Sanskrit grammar and make it compulsory
This is more likely to happen in the West than in India.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;51945]If there is any hope for India that is for India to return to its Vedic roots. I repeat:
Replace the capitalist system with the varnashrama dharma system.
Replace the education system with the gurukula system
Replace the medical system with the Ayurveda system
Replace health care and personal management and gyms with Yoga
Replace architecture and engineering with Vaastu
Replace English with Sanskrit
Replace the MTV system with the Sargam system
Revive the study of the Vedas, darsanas, epics, Sanskrit grammar and make it compulsory
This is more likely to happen in the West than in India.[/QUOTE]
We shall see what happens within a couple of decades, when I am around 50-60 and you are an old geezer.
I hate it when people make predictions about what is going to happen in the distant future It is because they assume that the way the current world is going is going to continue as it today. If the British thought that prior to WW2, they would have thought there would still be a British empire in the future. The Nazis thought that, they imagined a 1000 year rule of the third Reich, it barely even lasted half a decade.
So many have predicted this massive rise of India and China by 2030-2040 overtaking America to become the most powerful counties etc - but who knows what happens before then. Maybe there will be a massive global cataclysm such as a third world war that destroys India and China, and most of the world or maybe the entire world becomes one and nation states become history.
To make useful and realistic predictions about what is going to happen in the future one only has to look at the trends in global affairs currently to predict what may happen in the near future. If we look at those, here is what is happening in the world today:
Global economic breakdown: The rise of the middle class markets in developing world, especially India and China and caused the rebalancing of capital in the world. This is leading to a reduction in living standards in the West, loss of jobs and riots. This will in turn spur tensions between the West and the East. China is preparing for war with the West and Western allies such as India in the next 5 years.
Political breakdown: There are riots taking place all around the world against the government, including in UK, France and Greece. Recently in Tunisia, Egypt and now Iran.
Israel is very scared of the change in the political landscape of the Middle East and its increasing islamaization. There is a very good possibility of war breaking out between the Middle East and Israel in the next 5 years.
The nuclearization of rougue states: The number of states with nuclear weapons in the next 5 years will be double or triple the current number, and many of these are rouge such as North Korea. There is also a very real risk of Pakistan being overtaken by radical islamists.
Forget about projecting 30-40 years in the future, if humanity can get past the next 5 years without WWIII and nuclear holocaust which kills billions on the planet, then we will be very lucky.
Part my prediction on the destruction of India is based on Vedic knowledge of yugas or time cycles. We are currently at the age of an age. India has been falling for the past 5000 years and today it is at its most fallen state. To me the history of India for the past 5000 years has been the history of a dying civilisation. The history of the West for the last 500 years has been that of a rising civilisation. It is the West’s turn to shine now. This is why spirituality is coming to the West.
This world is about to face massive changes where the old will be destroyed to make way for the new. India represents the old, America the new.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;51989]Part my prediction on the destruction of India is based on Vedic knowledge of yugas or time cycles. We are currently at the age of an age. India has been falling for the past 5000 years and today it is at its most fallen state. To me the history of India for the past 5000 years has been the history of a dying civilisation. The history of the West for the last 500 years has been that of a rising civilisation. It is the West’s turn to shine now. This is why spirituality is coming to the West.
This world is about to face massive changes where the old will be destroyed to make way for the new. India represents the old, America the new.[/QUOTE]
No, America is also dying. You have to live here to see it. The conservative party is on the rise. Anti-Islamic and nationalistic sentiments are at an all time high. Its trade deficit is increasing. Its economy shows little signs of truly getting better in the long run. Education standards are failing and ignorance, as a result, is on the rise. The so-called “Bible thumpers” seem to be gaining alarming strength and influence with passing years, as reflected in the increasing amounts of “anti-evolution” and “anti-BBT” sentiments. The majority of the population doesn’t even believe in global warming. You know something is wrong when even something as small as THAT happens. An alarming amount of school districts are starting to teach Creationism, instead of evolution. What heresy! Our Lord God Newton, ashamed He would be if he witnessed this spectacle!
Besides, the government is getting increasingly jittery over the threat of radical Islam (redundant, I know). They are starting to put GPS devices underneath suspect’s cards for heaven’s sake.
If its anyone that will be on the top, its China. They won’t get into a war with America/India any time soon. Their first priority is to first secure the necessary resources for their population and worldwide political/economic influence. It was recently in the news that China is slowly starting to buy out major American corporations. Once this happens (may take a few decades longer), then we can seriously start SERIOUSLY contemplating China’s military ambitions, old geezer.
WHEEEEEE! Humanity is its own biggest joke! The world lacks any absolute morality or reality! I seriously think the human race should just…be gone. Then the animals and the plants and the bacteria and the protists and the fungi and the eubacteria and the archaebacteria can all live in peace…
The West is definitely not a dying civilisation. Practically, the entire modern world is the product of Western civilisation. It is their education system, economic system, legal systems and political systems the entire world is following. This is why I was pointing out the absurdity in you condemning the West, when India and China have adopted Western systems and India and China crave Western lifestyles themselves, especially Indians.
What you see in the West in terms of changes happening in education, politics and philosophy is not the sign of decline, but the signs of massive changes. Changes = destruction of old, and transformation of the old into the new.
I saw several videos on youtube today on the so-called superior Indian and Chinese education system. There is one particular one, a documentary entitled “2 Million Minutes” which raises alarm as to the falling standards of Americans in education and how they are getting eclipsed by India and China. However, a very valid point is made by critics of this documentary, while it is true that Indian and Chinese students have a stronger work ethic than Western students today, they lack the all round social and emotional development that Western students go through. In the West, education is not just about what you learn at university, but about college life, relationships, partying, sports, which appeal to the students emotional and sexual development as well.
India and China only have a strong work ethic because they are currently developing countries with immense poverty(more so India) and the current generations of Indians are coming from families who only recently became wealthy. Thus the value of education and work is drilled into the students. Over time, as has happened in the West, the next generations of Indians will become complacent and take their affluence for granted. This can already be seen by the demand by the current generations of Indians for more liberal education. The recent blockbuster movie, “3 Idiots” was a satire of the work ethic drilled into Indian students by the Indian education system and became a huge success with the Indian youth and sparked off debate in the media and society on whether the Indian education system was too strict. This harks back to a few decades ago in the West when Western education was liberalized because it was too strict.
Hence why I maintain there is nothing special about India and China. They are succesful now only because they offer a huge booming market of middle class and they provide cheap labour. The West has already passed this stage a few decades ago - been there and done that and got the t shirt - it is moving onto a new chapter in its future, whereas India and China are repeating its past. But the real question that needs to be asked is do we actually want new developing countries to repeat the same mistakes the West has, or is time not just for the the West, but the entire world to turn a new leaf?
The West and other advanced countries have proven that capitalism is not a sustainable system and eventually leads to mass economic meltdown. And there are not enough resources on this planet for India and China now to repeat the same growth the West has. So basically we have a situation of global conflict arising. This is why China is saying it is preparing for war in the next 5 years in every “stragetic direction” This world is not big enough for the West, India and China at once. This is why a world war is very likely within the next 5 years.
You do not have any expertise in politics, strategic matters, international relations and economics. For that matter neither do I. But the people who do are saying very clearly in the next 5 years major wars are going to erupt on this planet. The military of India and China themselves are saying this. The CIA have also forecasted this.
You seem to be living under this delusion of the rise of India and China to superpowerdom in a couple of decades and the fall of the West, without really being aware of the actual reality of what is happening in this world right now.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;52012]The West is definitely not a dying civilisation. Practically, the entire modern world is the product of Western civilisation. It is their education system, economic system, legal systems and political systems the entire world is following.
You seem to be living under this delusion of the rise of India and China to superpowerdom in a couple of decades and the fall of the West, without really being aware of the actual reality of what is happening in this world right now.[/QUOTE]
The US was powerful. But it is now trying to live on past glory. Look at the US trade deficit today -more than a TRILLION dollars. The US was a dominant creditor a little over a couple of decades ago. It is now the world’s largest debtor and with no known way of repaying that debt ! Dont be fooled by the current life styes. The US is running on debt- it sealed its fate when your political system moved away from a manufacturing society into a "services " society. The US system actively encourages consumption and discourages savings. The US is currently living a good life- but so would I if I started spending all the capital that my forefathers saved. But only savings add to capital and capital is required for investments. Without this , it would not be long before I run out of the money my forefathers worked for and left for me… When that happens, I will be bankrupt. The US is heading the same way. The only reason why the crash has not come so far is the fact that the Dollar is still the currency for international settlements- again a gift of the Bretton Woods. India and China, on the other hand, are investing in manufacturing, have large savings levels and while services are an important of the economy, I think we all realise that without manufacturing, we would also tread the path of ruin. and this is taken cognizance of by public policy.
I think these changes will occur within the next decade - it s time for the Asian Tiger !