Media, Political Correctness and Religious Debate

[QUOTE=thomas;47548]Concerning SD…most people have more of a problem with “style” than with “substance” as I see it.

Most people here are very nice and can get along with each other fantastically well in spite of huge differences. The problem with SD is that he goads and baits, but that does at least serve the purpose of making the board somewhat interesting.

Sometimes it can be fun to be offended.[/QUOTE]

He does not goad and bait. Rather, he is frank about what he thinks and says what needs to be said. Thus PC people, the most prevalent kind of the people in this forum, are offended by what he has to say, especially when his evidence is undeniable and his reasoning is sound.

[QUOTE=theseeker;46470]Namaste,

Surya Deva has on several occasions stated that we “cannot afford to be politically correct” when it comes to debates on religion and spirituality (SD: correct me if I’m wrong). Within the scientific community, a bad paradigm is replaced by a new and better one. At this point in time, in line with what SD and others (Nietzsche for one) holds, I feel this should also be the case for religion and spirituality. This brings me to the topic of this thread:

Today I listened to a radio programme broadcasted on the Swedish equivalent of the BBC. The essence of the programme is that ordinary people can call in to discuss any topic of choice. Since the suicide bombing in Stockholm a few weeks ago (luckily no one died except the bomber), the issue of religious fanaticism has been actualized in the media and public spheres alike, however seemingly within the paradigm of being “politically correct”.

In this particular show there was a man calling in to argue why the Quran is a text in which fanatics can find support for horrible actions, especially against Jews and Christians. In order to argue for his position, the man calling in wanted to cite directly from the Quran. However, the host prevented him from doing so, claiming that “this is not the place” to do so.

My questions are:

  • Where is the place, then, to discuss these issues? Do we have to keep these debates on anonymous Internet forums in front of a limited audience (like this place)?
  • Why can’t we cite religious text to show their inadequacies, and irrationalities in public contexts?
  • Why do the media, political representatives and people in general feel a need to equate all religions?
  • Public service media strive for objectivity, then why didn’t the host allow the man to cite the Quran?

:confused:[/QUOTE]

-Yes…its a paced debate, it works. It gives people time to consider their answer carefully. There’s no rush…if this were live on radio or T.V. it would be very different…this type of arena is fair for all. It gives a chance to all. The other two are too public for many to handle.

  • There are people who follow the text of their faiths to the letter but don’t experience anything because they don’t actually practice what they read in the parts that count. The basics of most faiths state the same good thing, but people vary in their ability to discipline themselves…The fundamentalists are not experiencers…they are readers.,.the proof is that when you experience the divine, it takes a certain mindset, one thats free of hatred, murder, shallowness, spite etc etc…The fundamentalists don’t have the discipline. Wise people know that there are parts of all sorts of text that don’t play a role for them today, on their spiritual mission and they ignore those parts and carry on…When you are an earnest seeker, it is recognised but the mindset has to be maintained. Damming Islam is offensive to those who experience.

-Because they haven’t thought it out properly. The need to be top dog…pecking orders, greed, to conquer…

-Because there are strict rules on matters that can incite riots, or worse in such a public arena for many to hear.

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;47551]He does not goad and bait. Rather, he is frank about what he thinks and says what needs to be said. Thus PC people, the most prevalent kind of the people in this forum, are offended by what he has to say, especially when his evidence is undeniable and his reasoning is sound.[/QUOTE]

I disagree, because he goes out of his way to create controversy and offense when none is necessary, but that’s message boards for you, so I’m not complaining.

[QUOTE=thomas;47563]I disagree, because he goes out of his way to create controversy and offense when none is necessary, but that’s message boards for you, so I’m not complaining.[/QUOTE]

This should all be in the Surya Deva worship thread, I mean tolerance thread

[QUOTE=thomas;47563]I disagree, because he goes out of his way to create controversy and offense when none is necessary, but that’s message boards for you, so I’m not complaining.[/QUOTE]

Oh but it IS necessary. Too long has the world hid themselves under layers of niceties and formalities and let their superiority complex crystallize in their mind…not good for relations, harmony, and understanding you see. Look at the racist posts on these forums from those supposedly tolerant people, for heaven’s sake. But no, these get no mention. Only our posts do. For saying the the facts too. Bias much?

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;47570]Oh but it IS necessary. Too long has the world hid themselves under layers of niceties and formalities and let their superiority complex crystallize in their mind…not good for relations, harmony, and understanding you see. Look at the racist posts on these forums from the supposedly tolerant people for heaven’s sake. But no, these get no mention. Only our posts do. For saying the the facts too. Bias much?[/QUOTE]

This is twaddle …who are the racists then?

[QUOTE=kareng;47578]This is twaddle …who are the racists then?[/QUOTE]

Anyone who disagrees with the resident Hindutva militia.

Oh I see…isnt this a movement of people with chips on their shoulders?

[QUOTE=kareng;47624]Oh I see…isnt this a movement of people with chips on their shoulders?[/QUOTE]

The local representatives certainly do, it’s obvious from their posts.

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;47519]Nope. Read my posts again. The most I said was “you are [B]no better[/B] than the next anti-Hindu/Indian” and “stop posting links to anti-Hindu articles…” This isn’t the same as accusing you of being an anti-Hindu outright. But it doesn’t matter anyway, since you have proved to me that you have Westernized/Christianized biases and are biased against Hinduism. Be happy that I am accusing you now. :D[/QUOTE]

OK, admittedly I am in a strange and not all too good mood today, but I have good reason, so all I will say is that if you read all that I linked you would have seen that there were also articles there about witches being burned/killed etc in the past by Christians and others. But you chose to lock onto the Hindu one and run with it, call people names and label people as racists. Word of advice…READ EVERYTHING before you run off and judge someone.

Sorry no humor tonight.

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;47570]Oh but it IS necessary. Too long has the world hid themselves under layers of niceties and formalities and let their superiority complex crystallize in their mind…not good for relations, harmony, and understanding you see. Look at the racist posts on these forums from those supposedly tolerant people, for heaven’s sake. But no, these get no mention. Only our posts do. For saying the the facts too. Bias much?[/QUOTE]

ummm… the last time I took the glove off and was not “PC” to SD he called me rude and made wild claims that I had said he was a terrorist and then posted that he was afraid that if I ever saw him that I would cause him physical harm. And whenever I ask him to answer questions he doesn’t and when I asked him to show where I said he was a terrorist…he never responded… So how does that fit with what you just posted?

So to keep it as PC as possible and to stay as polite as possible as not to offend SD? SD can dish it out but he can?t take it

[QUOTE=Yulaw;47658]OK, admittedly I am in a strange and not all too good mood today, but I have good reason, so all I will say is that if you read all that I linked you would have seen that there were also articles there about witches being burned/killed etc in the past by Christians and others. But you chose to lock onto the Hindu one and run with it, call people names and label people as racists. Word of advice…READ EVERYTHING before you run off and judge someone.

Sorry no humor tonight.[/QUOTE]

Don’t even think about apologizing to this kid. We’re all adults, we’re not playing some little kiddie high school semantics games. HE screwed up, HE accused you of something, HE put his foot in his own mouth (again).

[QUOTE=Yulaw;47660]ummm… the last time I took the glove off and was not “PC” to SD he called me rude and made wild claims that I had said he was a terrorist and then posted that he was afraid that if I ever saw him that I would cause him physical harm. And whenever I ask him to answer questions he doesn’t and when I asked him to show where I said he was a terrorist…he never responded… So how does that fit with what you just posted?

So to keep it as PC as possible and to stay as polite as possible as not to offend SD? SD can dish it out but he can?t take it[/QUOTE]

Don’t play SD’s games. He likes to antagonize people & likes to sic mods on members & get them banned. It’s a big ol’ one way double standard street with SD.

[QUOTE=Yulaw;47660]ummm… the last time I took the glove off and was not “PC” to SD he called me rude and made wild claims that I had said he was a terrorist and then posted that he was afraid that if I ever saw him that I would cause him physical harm. And whenever I ask him to answer questions he doesn’t and when I asked him to show where I said he was a terrorist…he never responded… So how does that fit with what you just posted?

So to keep it as PC as possible and to stay as polite as possible as not to offend SD… SD can dish it out but he can’t take it[/QUOTE]

I have responded to your posts on this matter and defeated you. You keep bringing it up because you can’t accept the fact that you’re wrong. Then, I asked you to give your opinion on the racist posts made by ID and Flex Penguin. You never responded. No one on this forum ever said anything about them. You have Westernized/Christian biases against Hindus and Indians. Yes, even though I didn’t explicitly say it before, I am now. You are biased against Hindus and Indians. You are not only no better than the racists on this forum, you are one of them.

Once again, what is your opinion on the racist posts made by ID and Flex Penguin. I have already provided the citations. What is your opinion on them? Once again, since your eyes have atrophied from age, I ask you to provide your opinion on them.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;47293]What baffles me is why do europeans not realise that they are not Abrahamic. The Abrahamic religion was forced onto Europe. It is not the original religion of Europe. The original religion was “pagan” I have many white european friends who try to practice their old pagan religion, and you would be surprised how similar to Hinduism it is and how they are very sympathetic and respectful towards Hinduism. Many of them even incorporoate Hinduism into their own religious practice.

I think the Indo-European world needs up wake up to the fact that we have been conned by the Abrahamic world into accepting their religion. We need to free ourselves from the bondage of the Abrahamic world. Yes, it is true in our so-called secular world today the Abrahamic influence is dampened, but it is still there in the background. We are still very much living in an Abrahamic domianted world.

Why do you think I rile against the Abrahamic world so much? Just because it has a violent history? No, because this savage and barbaric world still weilds influence over us today and it is responsible for much of the woes of the modern world.[/QUOTE]

So what are these woes exactly?

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;47670]I have responded to your posts on this matter and defeated you. You keep bringing it up because you can’t accept the fact that you’re wrong. Then, I asked you to give your opinion on the racist posts made by ID and Flex Penguin. You never responded. No one on this forum ever said anything about them. You have Westernized/Christian biases against Hindus and Indians. Yes, even though I didn’t explicitly say it before, I am now. You are biased against Hindus and Indians. You are not only no better than the racists on this forum, you are one of them.

Once again, what is your opinion on the racist posts made by ID and Flex Penguin. I have already provided the citations. What is your opinion on them? Once again, since your eyes have atrophied from age, I ask you to provide your opinion on them.[/QUOTE]

You have not beaten anyone kiddo… there was never a contest… but if it makes you feel better you can tell all you want that you won.

I do not give opinions until my questions are answered… you called me a racist and I asked you to point out where I made any such post and you didn?t. Then you changed your rules so you could label me a racist by association and ask me to critique other posts to help you and then when I did not take part in Nietzsche?s little racist name game you again called me a racist?. Frankly kiddo you calling me a racist mean little to me… you don?t know me. So if you want to label me as such… feel free? I know the truth of the matter and that is all I care about?. A faceless nameless person on a website calling people names means little in real life?. However it does show your level of maturity rather well

Have you ever considered that people not agreeing with you or not taking you seriously or not liking you much has little to do with you being Hindu (if you actual are Hindu) and more to do with you as an individual regardless of your religious association

[QUOTE=Yulaw;47740]You have not beaten anyone kiddo… there was never a contest… but if it makes you feel better you can tell all you want that you won.

I do not give opinions until my questions are answered… you called me a racist and I asked you to point out where I made any such post and you didn’t. Then you changed your rules so you could label me a racist by association and ask me to critique other posts to help you and then when I did not take part in Nietzsche’s little racist name game you again called me a racist…. Frankly kiddo you calling me a racist mean little to me… you don’t know me. So if you want to label me as such… feel free… I know the truth of the matter and that is all I care about…. A faceless nameless person on a website calling people names means little in real life…. However it does show your level of maturity rather well

Have you ever considered that people not agreeing with you or not taking you seriously or not liking you much has little to do with you being Hindu (if you actual are Hindu) and more to do with you as an individual regardless of your religious association[/QUOTE]

Lets review this for the third time, since your aging brain cannot grasp things as well anymore. First of all, I never stated explicitly that you are racist. I said that you are no better than the anti-Hindu people on this forum who post links to similar anti-Hindu drivel (I wonder why you wasted the effort to Google propaganda against Hinduism and India; you must be desperate to defame these two things). I also said that you tend to support people who are biased against Hinduism and India. I was hinting at ignorance and flawed views at that time, to be honest. But don’t worry, I have determined that you are a a bigot now. So there is no point in continuing this conversation on that matter.

Once again, provide your opinion on the following posts. I noticed how no one commented on them except for SD and me. This indeed shows bias towards us and Indians and Hindus in general.


"This is a good start Surya. I’ll contact A R Rahman so he can compose an upbeat score. [B]You and Friedrich practice your dance routines (who’s the stright guy?).[/B] Leave everything to me and I’ll have you guys prancing down the red carpet come Oscar season.

May have to change the old testament theme thing a bit. Violence is good, [B]but can you find some sexy bits? Just try to resist casting any girls under 16. I’ve read about old Hindu men’s preference for marrying the young ones. Won’t go over well out here. Round up some lower caste filthy untouchable bastards to haul the equipment around on the cheap, and we’re set." - Courtesy of Flex Penguin [/B]


"Actually, when we get down to brass tacks, the “Evil West” is going to do whatever it wants. Why? [B]Because we deserve it, considering the $Trillions$ & $Trillions$ of dollars that we’ve sent India to drag it out & keep it out of the gutter.[/B] Now that India is internationally recognized as a “developing country”, you’re all "Now get out! & completely change while you’re at it!“
Sorry, the real world doesn’t work like that. It never has. You like all the money we give you but you don’t like having us around? [B]Pssht, grow the hell up.[/B]
Asians can look at the plethora of religions, philosophies, and belief systems available to them and they pick & choose like a salad bar. [B]As Western countries have global social & financial influence, we will pick and choose from what religions or philosophies we like, when we like. We have the money, the power, and the authority, & we’ll do what we like. You can whine about it all you want but it’s a waste of time. Grow up & get with the real world.”[/B] - Indra Deva


Bollywood - here we come! I see you have been rehearsing, which is fantastic! What a show this is going to be. 4 hours long, minimum, with 2 intervals.

Here’s the synopsis:
The Hero: Surya Deva, he’s a rich boy, a spoiled brat. His mother has died and his mean father has remarried a Chritian woman. [B]Surya often sees his mother in his dreams where she begs him to find a nice girl and settle down. When we first meet our hero he’s surrounded by scantily clad girls prancing around him in their vast garden, while white and lilac petals fall from the sky.[/B] They sing:
Surya
Surya
Surya Deva
Āpa kē li’ē hamārā pyāra pīlē bukhāra kī taraha jalatā hai.
(Our love for you
Burns like yellow fever!)

[B]Our hero has charms to distract the girls while dancing - singing of his dream girl.
She comes to me
Like biscuit from the cupboard
So dry at first
But dunked in milk
So white to see[/B]

The Heroine: [B]Fraulein Freidrich (funny name for a hindu girl, but we can make it work).[/B] She is the epitome of today’s generation. [B]Fraulein Freidrich is poor outcast from a small village,[/B] but her jewelry is designed by Tanishq. Our heroine is having a bath in the local canal when our hero sees her. Their eyes meet, heartbeats stop, music happens, everyone around them begins the choreographed dancing rountine, the camera pans a wide panoramic shot of the scene, and love is in the air!

Fraulein Freidrich sings the main theme tune:
Surya
Surya
Surya Deva
My love for you
Lifts me up like a lever!

The Villain: (TBA) Surya’s father and his Christian wife, always spying on them from behind the doors or the trees. They sing as well:
Surya
Surya
Surya Deva
[B]If you marry her
We will carve you with a cleaver![/B]

Meanwhile, one lonely night our hero is alone, looking out into the Ganges, when his ghostly mother appears to him:
Surya
Surya
Surya Deva
[B]Fraulein Freidrich is too brown
Why don’t you leave her?[/B]

SD:
Mām̐, maiṁ apanā dūdha liyā hai,
lēkina ēka chōṭī sī mēka’apa
Fraulein Freidrich pārita kara sakatē haiṁ wih.
[B](Mother, I’ve had your milk, but wih a little makeup Fraulein Freidrich can pass.)[/B]

This goes on for a couple of hours, then our villains kidnap Fraulein Freidrich and take her to a palace that has a pool filled with pink acid. Much singing and dancing there. But, our hero’s best friend urges Surya Deva to rescue the Fraulein.
Surya
Surya
Surya Deva
If you let this happen
You will surely bereave her!

[B]So, off they prance - the scantliy clad girls in tow - to rescue the Fraulein Freidrich from the clutches of the evil father and Christian stepmother.[/B] When the arrive, a great fight ensues with a cast of thousands. Carefully choreographed, the villains and heroes battle for another hour or so. Finally, Surya Deva rescues his Fraulein Freidrich, but as they sing to each other, they realize they cannot remain on Earth together, so they decide to jump into the pool of pink acid. As they sink, to their knees, then their waist, then their shoulders, the camera zooms into a close up and our lovers kiss passionately. The fighting stops and sun is blacked out by a swarm of parrots, their droppings falling on the villains.

[B]But wait! It’s not over! Our lovers emerge in heaven, hand in hand (the scantily clad girls are there to meet them)[/B] and they are shown to a table full of great food by our hero’s mother. At the table are many guests, including Siva, Jesus, Allah, and the prophet MHd (have to careful there. Don’t want to make the same mistake as the Danes). Everyone is happy to see them, and the final song echoes with Rahman’s signature beat, while white and lilac petals fall from the sky.
Surya
Surya
Surya Deva
[B]Now you have the chance
To show her your pecker![/B]

Never crossed my mind as something bad…x

If he keeps waving my work around any more I’m going to have to start insisting on royalties.

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;47755]"Actually, when we get down to brass tacks, the “Evil West” is going to do whatever it wants. Why? [B]Because we deserve it, considering the $Trillions$ & $Trillions$ of dollars that we’ve sent India to drag it out & keep it out of the gutter.[/B] Now that India is internationally recognized as a “developing country”, you’re all "Now get out! & completely change while you’re at it!“
Sorry, the real world doesn’t work like that. It never has. You like all the money we give you but you don’t like having us around? [B]Pssht, grow the hell up.[/B]
Asians can look at the plethora of religions, philosophies, and belief systems available to them and they pick & choose like a salad bar. [B]As Western countries have global social & financial influence, we will pick and choose from what religions or philosophies we like, when we like. We have the money, the power, and the authority, & we’ll do what we like. You can whine about it all you want but it’s a waste of time. Grow up & get with the real world.”[/B] - Indra Deva[/B][/QUOTE]

The funny bit is you think ^^^^That^^^^ is “racism”. It’s not racism, it’s The Way Things Are. If the Vedic Utopian Civilization you & your Hindutva comrades-in-arms yearn for was all that, it wouldn’t have gone the way of the dodo the the country that conceived of it.