Yogiadam writes…Ok and as far as me saying that when you see or hear things that aren’t actually there, that is an hallucinations, and holding fixed false beliefs (life most religious doctrines) are considered delusions, there is no argument to be made there.
Karen reply…Sorry there is a huge argument there. Hallucinations visualisation delusions etc…how can you hallucinate something you know nothing about? How can you see what is written about but you haven’t read it? How can you have delusions when you haven’t got an aim? … and as for visualisation, im totally against it…why deliberately put something there that isn’t there? …sorry if Im making it too simplistic or if it sounds naive.
yogiadam writes…Mental health isn’t a question of solving, it’s a question of managing.
Karen inaccurate reply…Totally disagree with this
Karens revised reply…I correct myself managing it can work but it is a longer process the kind of management that can go on and on and on…why do it like that if there is a quicker route? the management comes after the cure in that the individual is fully aware of why and how it happened and not to go down that route again and to know if they do they know there is a quicker solution than years and years route.
yogiadam writes…If you disagree what an hallucination is, or what a delusion is, you are simply asserting your own definitions to these words. Your playing word games. An Hallucination IS when you see or hear something that is not actually there. If not, than what is it? A delusion IS a fixed, false belief. If not, then what is it? If you actually choose to answer these questions, may I suggest to get the dictionary out first.
Karens reply…It is extremely difficult for me to try and explain why seeing the inner guru in the manner I have explained, is not an hallucination, 1.First of all, you are setting up the conditions for him to visit…or you are searching for him via the ajna chakra or you know where he is, which format to direct yourself in and find him using the ajna chakra.
I think this does away with the opening definition (see wickypid) ‘A hallucination, in the broadest sense of the word, is a perception in the absence of a stimulus.’
Next wicky line is…'In a stricter sense, hallucinations are defined as perceptions in a conscious and awake state in the absence of external stimuli which have qualities of real perception, in that they are vivid, substantial, and located in external objective space.'
If the inner guru ‘hallucination’ were just that, ‘an image in objective space’ , then it would end there, but it doesn’t end there. It is followed by instruction in a positive way, never negative, he performs in the way any human being does…e.g all the actions like interest, curiosity, love, happiness…he is as real as you and I , not simply a rigid vision with no personality, thought,actions etc etc…this takes him beyond the [B]limitations of the word hallucination!!![/B]
Next…from wicky Delusion…A delusion is a fixed belief that is either false, fanciful, or derived from deception. In psychiatry, it is defined to be a belief that is pathological (the result of an illness or illness process) and is held despite evidence to the contrary
Im never fixed in anything…always always willing to be corrected.
False …no because im not the only one who knows about this and have 1st hand experience numerous times in ajna states. e.g. to hear in real time an incident that was actually happening 3 miles away, in detail, is proof enough for starters
Fanciful…I only go on 1st hand experience rather than ideas of what I would like to happen or what someone tells me should happen or what i have read…also many many others to back it up
Deception, again im not easily deceived, I go by experience and then look for exact correlations later. Infrequently, its the other way round.
and picking up on wickys final point…‘it is defined to be a belief that is pathological (the result of an illness or illness process) and is held despite evidence to the contrary’
I would be worried for myself if I were ill, I keep a very close control of my mind and thoughts, no evidence has ever been put before me, yourself included, that could make me worried that I am deluded in some way…I question myself, what I experience, what I read and what I am told, very carefully and silently, usually.
I see flaws in religions and know they are flaws. I see inadequate explanations, guidance and advice in Buddhism itself, and information witheld, especially for westerners and the western practice of Buddhism and for the charlatan masters they [B]might[/B] come up against.
yogiadam writes…Finally, I take exception to being told I have a narrow view. But then again, you don’t know me, so you probably are miss-understand me. I guarantee if you knew me face to face, we would get on like a house on fire. We would have so much in common, and we would have respect for each other. I’m sure you would see that I am a very open person. I have been a Buddhist, I have been a Christian, and am open to the idea of god. I think the question of god is a huge, important question.
Karens reply…Im so sorry for using the words ‘narrow view’… and believe it or not I actually erased it twice and then put it back…I knew it wasn’t the right word and what I want to say is this…
Your limiting the potential inside you for profound experience. Whether we like it or not, a simple set of rules have to be adhered to, to get there. I know you have trained in Buddhism…for you, it was not the right training, I dare to say this because I find flaws in the practice for us westerners, to get it right to experience what we can and should.
Or maybe the practice wasn’t adhered to? Only you can know this.
By [B]seemingly[/B] closing the doors on it all… by logic alone …means you will never experience what you,…without any doubt in my mind…can experience.
Yogiadam writes…I guarantee if you knew me face to face, we would get on like a house on fire. We would have so much in common, and we would have respect for each other. I’m sure you would see that I am a very open person.
Karens reply…I know we would get on like a house on fire…I know that with absolute certainty!!!
One day perhaps we will meet, Until then carry on with the posts because I love them.
You have an honest approach (with humour) that isn’t wrapped up in do gooder lines and over sensitivities, I personally like this approach, it suits my practical logical thinking in my own approach to spirituality. Doesn’t mean I dont respect or appreciate other ways/posts.
You obviously feel like you have a mission to preach against religion and you have chosen this forum as one of one of your targets to engage in this missionary activity.