[QUOTE=omamana;37287]Can we please direct this thread back to God.
…or begin a new thread on other interesting topics that may come up here.[/QUOTE]
Namaste, I don’t think the discussion between myself and Yogiadam was off-topic. It was about god, but from a philosophical and scientific point of view.
The concept of god is not just limited to faith, but it is also present in philosophy and science.
To me god is a philosophical and scientific notion.
Indeed string theory is nothing more than the spanda of BharIavi thanks to the svatantrya of Bhairava 
Shivoham
-d
In Hinduism the majority doctrinal view of god is semi-atheist. In the Mimasa tradition god is dharma, simply the sum of eternal laws and principles which govern the universe. In the Samkhya-Yoga tradition god is simply a pure observer and controller of the universe(similar in a sense to the Mimasa view). In the Advaita tradition god is just the ultimate reality of existence. These are what are called philosophical views of god and have nothing to do with faith. They can be supported with rigorous rational argument and even scientific evidence.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;37332]Namaste, I don’t think the discussion between myself and Yogiadam was off-topic. It was about god, but from a philosophical and scientific point of view.
The concept of god is not just limited to faith, but it is also present in philosophy and science.
To me god is a philosophical and scientific notion.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely agree. If there is a god/gods, then it’s a scientific question and is subject to evidence. Now that I think about it, it certainly is a philosophical question… actually I think the idea of god is PRIMARILY a philosophical and scientific question.
Look for a ‘superman’ God outside of you and there are bound to be theories struggling to stand on their own and passionate proponents and opponents. Exploring inside, there is another infinite space. But here you remain the only witness, first to images then to silence and then to an apparent void. Then, a turnaround happens, you realize that you were not the ‘witness’ after all. In that moment you find it, requiring no theory, no name.
The OP asked a very specific set of questions to be answered and then very politely asked that we return to those questions. That seems perfectly fair to me.
[QUOTE=YogiAdam;37289]No worries… so yeah anyway, there’s ZERO evidence anywhere to support a god theory, so I would question what such a theory could be based on. Maybe emotional wanting? this is my view.[/QUOTE]
I thought you and I have already been through this? Are you proposing the question to me again in hope for a different answer?
[QUOTE=lostontheway;37293]I trust in God that any thread on yoga forums these days shall in a matter of few posts become a crusade; no offense.[/QUOTE]
We create our own responses, if they came from God it would come from a place of love, and therefore cannot result in a crusade. The crusade erupts from ego, judgement, self-righteousness and anger.
As I said in my earlier post, I really had to think more about this. I did.
I don’t see God or feel God’s presence when I TRY to. I see and feel God in the oddest of times. Times when I need God and times when I don’t. Times like taking a walk on our favorite trail in the park. We have done so probably hundreds of times. All of a sudden I notice something new and beautiful for the first time. That is when I thank God for sharing this with me and helping me to appreciate more deeply. This is when I can almost feel and see God. It’s that brief AHhhhh moment that I so treasure. Another example is from my teaching yoga. The students who come in with a more negative attitude or who have a lot of ego are the ones I treasure most. They come in with attitude, but soon it dissolves and their true essence shines. I could have immediately placed a value judgement on them, but through experience, I’ve learned they become my best students. This is God in a most unlikely place. This is where I welcome God.
Do I know God? No. I just TRY to allow God to do what God needs to do. God is more generic in nature and not a person. God is essence. God is everywhere and in everything. Don’t know how God did all this, or what Gods hand was in it. And for me this is OK. If there turns out to be no God, well that’s OK too. Like I said in The Old Story thread, the journey gets us there and matters most to me. And now I am rambling and probably making no sense at all. My idea of God is rather complex to me (or is it just simple and I’m making it more complex?) and it’s hard to articulate my thoughts. Hope I have done so.
lotusgirl, you said it beautifully! This is exactly my experience but I am not as eloquent as you are.
God is everything
God is the One
About whom
nothing can be said
My idea of God is rather complex to me (or is it just simple and I’m making it more complex?)
It is simple and you are making it complex. In fact everybody is making it complex. If only they could take a leaf out of Occams razor and stop multiplying quantities unnecessarily.
I will ask you three simple questions:
When did you first hear about god? Were you born with this concept? No, of course you were not. You learned this concept from religion. In other words god is a concept that humans have created.
Next question follows on: If god is a human concept where is the first place to look for god? Simple, you look within the human mind itself as to where this concept comes from.
This naturally leads onto asking philosophical questions and contemplating various answers. Perhaps god is just a concept created by humans to control other humans and is the equivalent of the tooth fairy or santa clause that children are told by their parents to control them. Perhaps god is a survival mechanism humans need to justify life and living in society. After all, most people do not want to believe they are just meat-bodies.
Sooner or later one starts asking the ontological questions abour god. For even if the the prior possibilities were true, it still means the human psychology is capable of imagining a perfect entity. What is it about the human psychology that allows it to imagine an ideal nature? At this stage one has no recourse other than metaphysics. It forces us to interrogate our very own nature and ask “Who am I” It is then we realise that whatever this “god” concept is it is telling us that who we really are is something transcendent to our experience. This is when can make the jump and realise that we are transcendental being who have become misidentified with the immanent. Now we have a clear concept of god.
So the final question: How can we know this god? The answer is simple that because this god is of an ideal nature it pertains not to the empirical world but to the conscious world. Therefore only through a process of introversion can one come into knowledge of god. How is that done? It is done by ceasing ones empirical perception, emptying the mind of all empirical content. As a result only the transcendent remains. Hence Yoga.
So rational reasoning has told us a lot about god. Now, science can follow up and test whether our reasoning is correct. This is done through the phenomenological data collected during Yoga. Now, surely enough, irrespective of which religion you are, every yogi experiences the same transcendental consciousness. It is obvious if you read the reports of Indian Yogis, Buddhist Yogis, Christian Yogis, Muslim Yogis, Atheist Yogis that they all converge on this. Therefore this is objective scientific fact.
Case solved.
@ Alix
Thank you! Wasn’t sure I was making sense.
@ Surya
Like I said in my response, I try not to see or feel God. I do not see God as a person. I just allow the presence of God to be felt and seen. I don’t see how I’m not doing what you imply. I don’t think it is scientific though, but science does help us to understand the physical world around us.
[QUOTE=lotusgirl;37415]As I said in my earlier post, I really had to think more about this. I did.
I don’t see God or feel God’s presence when I TRY to. I see and feel God in the oddest of times. Times when I need God and times when I don’t. Times like taking a walk on our favorite trail in the park. We have done so probably hundreds of times. All of a sudden I notice something new and beautiful for the first time. That is when I thank God for sharing this with me and helping me to appreciate more deeply. This is when I can almost feel and see God. It’s that brief AHhhhh moment that I so treasure. Another example is from my teaching yoga. The students who come in with a more negative attitude or who have a lot of ego are the ones I treasure most. They come in with attitude, but soon it dissolves and their true essence shines. I could have immediately placed a value judgement on them, but through experience, I’ve learned they become my best students. This is God in a most unlikely place. This is where I welcome God.
Do I know God? No. I just TRY to allow God to do what God needs to do. God is more generic in nature and not a person. God is essence. God is everywhere and in everything. Don’t know how God did all this, or what Gods hand was in it. And for me this is OK. If there turns out to be no God, well that’s OK too. Like I said in The Old Story thread, the journey gets us there and matters most to me. And now I am rambling and probably making no sense at all. My idea of God is rather complex to me (or is it just simple and I’m making it more complex?) and it’s hard to articulate my thoughts. Hope I have done so.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for coming back after some contemplation. So you see God in all life’s little wonders 
Yep!
[B]I pose another general question…[/B]
Those of you who do believe in a God seem to find Him in love, beauty, nature etc…
Do you think God is also found in anger, war, judgement, death, punishment…?
Like I said in my response, I try not to see or feel God.
I just allow the presence of God to be felt and seen.
Allowing and trying. Interesting. How do you know that you have felt the presence and seen the presence of god and not just a feel-good sensation of ego?
You see people who are very honest with themselves about this question are ultimately they who truly attain god. The paradox is allowing requires very intense trying.
There is a saying, “Enlightenment happens in a moment, but it takes a lifetime to get there”
The seed does not grow by itself you need to first create the conditions for the seed to grow.
Trying is the first step. Allowing comes after trying.
Surya,
Are you saying I am not honest with myself?
Do you think God is also found in anger, war, judgement, death, punishment…?
I think the way we see God in the above is how we overcome them. The above are man made. If we want to avoid them or overcome them, God is there with us.
with what I said being said, my personal belif is that we/it, are all one and that is something I would like to experience for myself, to me God is all that is.